What possible reason, if any, would you have for someone to accept the New Testament?

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This question is posed not for Jews specifically but just for the idea of the Old Testament itself. If someone accepted the Old Testament (starting with the "Five books of Moses") as 'scripture'. If they accepted those, then what possible thing could the New Testament have to offer them, if anything?



Polemical responses will not be accepted here, nor quoting verses that simply rip-off passages from the Old Testament (because under the premise of this question it would only give more reason to reject the New Testament as derivative by nature, and therefore untrustworthy)
 

Lisa

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There is always a sacrifice for sin in the OT...the only things God changes regarding sacrifice for sin is that His Son was the once for all sacrifice so that anyone believing in Him wouldn’t have to continually sacrifice something for their sins. It’s not as disjointed as you think it is.

The other thing that is changed in the New Testament is that gentiles can be saved too, not just Jews. And that’s because the Jews rejected their savior so God brought salvation to the gentiles too. Later, God will bring His people back into the fold but right now it’s the time for gentiles to be saved. And that’s not to say that Jews can’t be saved now, it’s just more than likely they wont.
 

A.J.

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Completion.

Isaiah 53 King James Version (KJV)

Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?

2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
 
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This question is posed not for Jews specifically but just for the idea of the Old Testament itself. If someone accepted the Old Testament (starting with the "Five books of Moses") as 'scripture'. If they accepted those, then what possible thing could the New Testament have to offer them, if anything?



Polemical responses will not be accepted here, nor quoting verses that simply rip-off passages from the Old Testament (because under the premise of this question it would only give more reason to reject the New Testament as derivative by nature, and therefore untrustworthy)
Life, through the acceptance of the the New Covenant under Christ:


TWH
9:60 Anyone who has not signed-up for the New Covenant, in its entirety, is as good as dead,
because you are still under The Curse (penalty-clause) of the Old Covenant - slavery and death.
9:61 There is still time, but only just. Read Isaiah 42:7 and my “Handbook for Prisoners, Prison
Officers & Governors” – http://jahtruth.net/prison.htm or send for a copy.
9:62 You are ALL in slavery to the rich, and in poverty, and always have been, because you have
not kept The Covenant, and have allowed evil, selfish people, to make up unlawful laws and
economic systems, to cheat you and make you poor, and drive you to crime to survive and feed your
families, exactly as God warned you, almost 3000 years ago, by His Prophet, TO YOU: Isaiah.
Read Isaiah 3:12-15 & 42:20-22 for yourself. See what it REALLY says.
9:63 You can set yourselves and the entire working-class FREE, from poverty and injustice, by
keeping The Covenant; “Fighting for the Kingdom and Justice for ALL”; and for a return to
Freedom, under God’s Perfect Laws of Liberty, and Economics; instead of imprisonment, under
men’s unlawful laws/legislation and economics.
9:64 The New Covenant is waiting for YOU to accept it, and do your half, so that God and I can do
Ours, and it has been waiting, for 2000 years, for you to come to your senses, and open your eyes
and ears, and listen to Us, and ONLY Us.

When are you EVER going to learn to do as you are told?
 
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TokiEl

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This question is posed not for Jews specifically but just for the idea of the Old Testament itself. If someone accepted the Old Testament (starting with the "Five books of Moses") as 'scripture'. If they accepted those, then what possible thing could the New Testament have to offer them, if anything?



Polemical responses will not be accepted here, nor quoting verses that simply rip-off passages from the Old Testament (because under the premise of this question it would only give more reason to reject the New Testament as derivative by nature, and therefore untrustworthy)
Old Testament jews were waiting for the Messiah.


Well there is a timeline until the Messiah given by Gabriel to Daniel.

Daniel 9 25“Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;

The street shall be built again, and the wall,
Even in troublesome times.




Nehemiah rebuilt the wall around Jerusalem after king Artaxerxes gave him permission to do so on Nisan in his 20th regnal year.

Nehemiah 2 And it came to pass in the month of Nisan, in the twentieth year of King Artaxerxes, when wine was before him, that I took the wine and gave it to the king. Now I had never been sad in his presence before. 2 Therefore the king said to me, “Why is your face sad, since you are not sick? This is nothing but sorrow of heart.”

So I became dreadfully afraid, 3 and said to the king, “May the king live forever! Why should my face not be sad, when the city, the place of my fathers’ tombs, lies waste, and its gates are burned with fire?”

4 Then the king said to me, “What do you request?”

So I prayed to the God of heaven. 5 And I said to the king, “If it pleases the king, and if your servant has found favor in your sight, I ask that you send me to Judah, to the city of my fathers’ tombs, that I may rebuild it.

6 Then the king said to me (the queen also sitting beside him), “How long will your journey be? And when will you return?” So it pleased the king to send me; and I set him a time.




Daniel 9 25“Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;

The street shall be built again, and the wall,
Even in troublesome times.



From Nisan 444 BC until Messiah the Prince there shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks.

(Strong's H7620 - shabuwa which was translated as weeks means sevenfold... as in 7 days a shabuwa and 7 years a shabuwa. Not 7 solar years since the ancient calendar system of Israel don't measure the solar year... but 360 weeks which is almost 7 solar years.)

From Nisan 444 BC until Messiah the Prince there shall be 7x360 weeks + 62x360 weeks [= 24840 weeks]

Plot the data into an online day counter... (counting from March 444 BC pluss 24840 weeks... until the Messiah.)

And as can be seen the Messiah would come on Nisan/March 33 AD.



The Old Testament jews were waiting for the Messiah... and Gabriel gave Daniel a timeline until the Messiah... which completed on Nisan/March 33 AD. That's when Jesus Christ rode into Jerusalem on a donkey and was cut off or crucified a few days later.

Zechariah 9 9“Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion!
Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem!
Behold, your King is coming to you;
He is just and having salvation,
Lowly and riding on a donkey,
A colt, the foal of a donkey.
 

TokiEl

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When there is a timeline until the Messiah given by Gabriel to Daniel which times the Messiah to Nisan 33 AD... then it is clear that Jesus is the Christ. It's indisputable.

And that is why the Old Testament jews must also accept the New Testament... sooner or later.
 

TokiEl

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And they will.


Zechariah 12 The burden of the word of the Lord against Israel. Thus says the Lord, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him:

2 “Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of drunkenness to all the surrounding peoples, when they lay siege against Judah and Jerusalem. 3 And it shall happen in that day that I will make Jerusalem a very heavy stone for all peoples; all who would heave it away will surely be cut in pieces, though all nations of the earth are gathered against it. 4 In that day,” says the Lord, “I will strike every horse with confusion, and its rider with madness; I will open My eyes on the house of Judah, and will strike every horse of the peoples with blindness. 5 And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, ‘The inhabitants of Jerusalem are my strength in the Lord of hosts, their God.’ 6 In that day I will make the governors of Judah like a firepan in the woodpile, and like a fiery torch in the sheaves; they shall devour all the surrounding peoples on the right hand and on the left, but Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place—Jerusalem. 7 “The Lord will save the tents of Judah first, so that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem shall not become greater than that of Judah. 8 In that day the Lord will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; the one who is feeble among them in that day shall be like David, and the house of David shall be like God, like the Angel of the Lord before them. 9 It shall be in that day that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

10 “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. 11 In that day there shall be a great mourning in Jerusalem, like the mourning at Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. 12 And the land shall mourn, every family by itself: the family of the house of David by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Nathan by itself, and their wives by themselves; 13 the family of the house of Levi by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of Shimei by itself, and their wives by themselves; 14 all the families that remain, every family by itself, and their wives by themselves.
 

Karlysymon

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This question is posed not for Jews specifically but just for the idea of the Old Testament itself. If someone accepted the Old Testament (starting with the "Five books of Moses") as 'scripture'. If they accepted those, then what possible thing could the New Testament have to offer them, if anything?



Polemical responses will not be accepted here, nor quoting verses that simply rip-off passages from the Old Testament (because under the premise of this question it would only give more reason to reject the New Testament as derivative by nature, and therefore untrustworthy)
For some reason, I get the sense that when you thought of this question, you only considered one aspect of scripture (rules and regulations/how one should live one’s life). There are many aspects to Holy Writ that are integral to its wholesomeness and one of that is prophecy.

OT or The Law and the Prophets. Prophecy is integral to any sacred text because it not only reaffirms our faith in God’s existence but also in His character. There are things in the OT that the prophets talked about that never came to pass in their lifetimes or the immediate future (a couple hundred years). If Christ had lived, say, in the time of Moses or David or with the returning exiles, we probably wouldn’t have the NT because His ministry would be recorded by those people, unfortunately, they were never His contemporaries.

The NT (as much as the OT) revolves around one subject, that is the Person of Christ. As Paul said: I resolved to know nothing except Christ and Him crucified. To render it useless is to make none-effect of Christ’s ministry: both the earthly and heavenly ministries. Also to render it useless, one would then have to negate large chunks of the OT. As an example, God promised David that his throne would “endure before Me like the sun” (I hope I remember the verse correctly). How does one account for this promise in the 1st century or in 75AD after the jews had been hauled off into exile, let alone circa 1000AD? How does David’s throne actually endure before God? The promise has to be kept otherwise it has a bearing on God’s character and subsequently the Moral Law (if God tells lies, where does that leave the Moral Law and its claims on us? etc)

Judaism’s rejection of Christ (grounds often used to discredit the NT) doesn’t change one thing at all about the Person of Christ. Every scientist in the world can come out and say that the sun doesn’t exist but their “scientific claims” won’t stop the sun from shinning.

Without the NT, we are, in my view 80% in the dark about the very important subject that is man’s redemption and the “final solution” to the problem of sin.
 

Todd

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Jeremiah 31 is the clearest indication from the Old Testament that a new (renewed) covenant was coming. So if you believe Jeremiah is part of the old Testament and accept the Old Testemant then you would need to accept that something besides the Old Covenant was coming. Since the OT is the record of the Old Covenant it would make sense that their would be a NT to record the New Covenant.

31Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more
 
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For some reason, I get the sense that when you thought of this question, you only considered one aspect of scripture (rules and regulations/how one should live one’s life). There are many aspects to Holy Writ that are integral to its wholesomeness and one of that is prophecy.
Nope, I asked from a theological and existential perspective.

As in, the Old Testament (and of course Judaism itself by etension) has one view on reality, the nature of the human being, the nature of life/death and a view of why we're here.
The New Testament (and clearly Christianity itself particularly) has a completely different view on reality, the nature of the human being, the nature of life/death and a view of why we're here.

The question is more to those Christians who think the Jewish view is inferior, to exactly why Christian theology with it's personalization of God is actually superior in comparison? and what the contents of the New Testament, in which ways it improves from the Old Testament.
Of course I do see the problem in asking a Christian this, considering the unavoidable theological predisposition that the Christian worldview comes with, which does require a bit of out-of-the-box thinking to tackle. Things like this include the idea that the Old Testament is 'incomplete' or needing to be 'fulfilled', that God is 'distant' or that Jews just mindlessly follow rules instead of worshiping God. This plus many other strawmen have to be understood for what they are in order to move forward in honestly answering the question.
I am not speaking to/at you here, just narrating it.

The NT (as much as the OT) revolves around one subject, that is the Person of Christ. As Paul said: I resolved to know nothing except Christ and Him crucified. To render it useless is to make none-effect of Christ’s ministry: both the earthly and heavenly ministries. Also to render it useless, one would then have to negate large chunks of the OT. As an example, God promised David that his throne would “endure before Me like the sun” (I hope I remember the verse correctly). How does one account for this promise in the 1st century or in 75AD after the jews had been hauled off into exile, let alone circa 1000AD? How does David’s throne actually endure before God? The promise has to be kept otherwise it has a bearing on God’s character and subsequently the Moral Law (if God tells lies, where does that leave the Moral Law and its claims on us? etc)
Does this really sound like Jesus?

“‘YHWH declares to you that YHWH himself will establish a house for you:
When your days are over and you rest with your ancestors,
I will raise up your offspring to succeed you,
your own flesh and blood, and I will establish his kingdom.
He is the one who will build a house for my Name,
and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever.
I will be his father, and he will be my son.
When he does wrong, I will punish him with a rod wielded by men,
with floggings inflicted by human hands.

But my love will never be taken away from him,
as I took it away from Saul, whom I removed from before you.
Your house and your kingdom will endure forever before me;
your throne will be established forever.’”


- 2 Samuel 7:11-16

I can't see it.

Anyway, there are always more than just two possible answers. One possible answer COULD be that it is a false-prophecy and the writer of 2 Samuel was a forger. When you're an 'outsider' or 'heathen' (aka, Nonchristian) you gotta look at all the potential answers to find what actually makes sense.

Even the last line, which is of course a common sentiment in Christianity (albeit, different context), is still problematic given two things: 1. Jesus died. 2. Jesus hasn't returned.

Just a thought.

Judaism’s rejection of Christ (grounds often used to discredit the NT) doesn’t change one thing at all about the Person of Christ. Every scientist in the world can come out and say that the sun doesn’t exist but their “scientific claims” won’t stop the sun from shinning.
Of course not, I never stated anything in relation to that idea though. However the same sentiment does indeed relate to the Christian rejection of Prophet Muhammad (a.s.), that isn't the topic though...


Anyway, bless you have a great week, haven't seen you around lately :)
 
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Are these two questions? Why recommend the NT to one who has accepted the OT (thus a Jew)? And why recommend the NT to anyone, regardless of having accepted the OT?
 

Karlysymon

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Hey Infinityloop
Nope, I asked from a theological and existential perspective.

As in, the Old Testament (and of course Judaism itself by etension) has one view on reality, the nature of the human being, the nature of life/death and a view of why we're here.
The New Testament (and clearly Christianity itself particularly) has a completely different view on reality, the nature of the human being, the nature of life/death and a view of why we're here.
Please elaborate. Although i believe there is consistency on those subjects in both the OT and NT.
oes this really sound like Jesus?

“‘YHWH declares to you that YHWH himself will establish a house for you:
When your days are over and you rest with your ancestors,
I will raise up your offspring to succeed you,
your own flesh and blood, and I will establish his kingdom.
He is the one who will build a house for my Name,
and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever.
I will be his father, and he will be my son.
When he does wrong, I will punish him with a rod wielded by men,
with floggings inflicted by human hands.

But my love will never be taken away from him,
as I took it away from Saul, whom I removed from before you.
Your house and your kingdom will endure forever before me;
your throne will be established forever.’”


- 2 Samuel 7:11-16

I can't see it.

Anyway, there are always more than just two possible answers. One possible answer COULD be that it is a false-prophecy and the writer of 2 Samuel was a forger. When you're an 'outsider' or 'heathen' (aka, Nonchristian) you gotta look at all the potential answers to find what actually makes sense.
Ofcourse this isn’t about Christ. While, in this case, the prophecy of an enduring throne was mentioned within a prophecy about Solomon, it isn’t the only place it is mentioned. If we go with one of your possibilities that it is a false prophecy and the writer a forger, then by extension the prophets Isaiah (11-Root and branch of Jesse), Jeremiah (23:5-6). Micah (5:1-2), Zechariah (9:9) are charged with being false prophets in regard to that promise.

The “offices” that Christ assumed, He still holds even if He is in heaven. He assumed the office of a high priest. He isn’t one on earth but in officiates in heaven. So, as long as Christ lives and as the “Root and Offspring of David” (Rev 22:16), David’s throne endures.

Sorry, this is rushed and I know you’ll get the sense that its rushed.
Anyway, bless you have a great week, haven't seen you around lately :)
Thank you. This is so kind and sweet of you. I wish you the same. I will wish you a happy new year in advance!
 
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This question is posed not for Jews specifically but just for the idea of the Old Testament itself. If someone accepted the Old Testament (starting with the "Five books of Moses") as 'scripture'. If they accepted those, then what possible thing could the New Testament have to offer them, if anything?
The OT gives the work of God in creation, the rebellion of man and foretells the coming of a savior and The nation of Israel. The OT is about Israel alone, other nations are mentioned as they touch Israel. The NT is proof of the promises of God and part of it's fulfillment of the promised savior, His rejection and the calling out of the Church and the prophecy of Last Things. It offers hope.


Polemical responses will not be accepted here, nor quoting verses that simply rip-off passages from the Old Testament (because under the premise of this question it would only give more reason to reject the New Testament as derivative by nature, and therefore untrustworthy)
 

Red Sky at Morning

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This question is posed not for Jews specifically but just for the idea of the Old Testament itself. If someone accepted the Old Testament (starting with the "Five books of Moses") as 'scripture'. If they accepted those, then what possible thing could the New Testament have to offer them, if anything?



Polemical responses will not be accepted here, nor quoting verses that simply rip-off passages from the Old Testament (because under the premise of this question it would only give more reason to reject the New Testament as derivative by nature, and therefore untrustworthy)
A good place to start...


Something to dig in to...

 

Lisa

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What counts as polemical? Would pointing out that the sacraments of Christianity involve a human sacrifice, pretend-vampirism, pretend-cannibalism, and supernatural powers that got people burned at the stake by some future puritanical Christians for the appearance of witchcraft be polemical? What if the point is to frame Christianity in a way that entices those who've turned to the occult to reconsider Jesus?
It’s not so simple as saying that there was a human sacrifice. Jesus sacrificed Himself to save people, He did it willingly.

True Christians aren’t vampires or cannibals as the verses in question are metaphors.

What supernatural powers are ya talking about?

I’m not sure what your last sentence is implying, could you expand on that?
 

Red Sky at Morning

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What counts as polemical? Would pointing out that the sacraments of Christianity involve a human sacrifice, pretend-vampirism, pretend-cannibalism, and supernatural powers that got people burned at the stake by some future puritanical Christians for the appearance of witchcraft be polemical? What if the point is to frame Christianity in a way that entices those who've turned to the occult to reconsider Jesus?
I think if you reject the Trinity, this becomes a valid critique (and it is interesting that so many of these elements echo genuine occult practice). Once you deny the deity of Christ, everything falls out of place. Conversely, if Jesus is co-equal to the Father, these criticisms are simply not valid.

e.g. human sacrifice typically involves a powerless, inferior, unwilling victim. This is not how the account reads in the Garden if Gethsemane. When Jesus said “I AM” (the name of God), the would-be captors fell to the ground.
 
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shankara

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Life, through the acceptance of the the New Covenant under Christ:


TWH
9:60 Anyone who has not signed-up for the New Covenant, in its entirety, is as good as dead,
because you are still under The Curse (penalty-clause) of the Old Covenant - slavery and death.
9:61 There is still time, but only just. Read Isaiah 42:7 and my “Handbook for Prisoners, Prison
Officers & Governors” – http://jahtruth.net/prison.htm or send for a copy.
9:62 You are ALL in slavery to the rich, and in poverty, and always have been, because you have
not kept The Covenant, and have allowed evil, selfish people, to make up unlawful laws and
economic systems, to cheat you and make you poor, and drive you to crime to survive and feed your
families, exactly as God warned you, almost 3000 years ago, by His Prophet, TO YOU: Isaiah.
Read Isaiah 3:12-15 & 42:20-22 for yourself. See what it REALLY says.
9:63 You can set yourselves and the entire working-class FREE, from poverty and injustice, by
keeping The Covenant; “Fighting for the Kingdom and Justice for ALL”; and for a return to
Freedom, under God’s Perfect Laws of Liberty, and Economics; instead of imprisonment, under
men’s unlawful laws/legislation and economics.
9:64 The New Covenant is waiting for YOU to accept it, and do your half, so that God and I can do
Ours, and it has been waiting, for 2000 years, for you to come to your senses, and open your eyes
and ears, and listen to Us, and ONLY Us.

When are you EVER going to learn to do as you are told?
Isn't this guy just a little bit grandiose in the negative sense of the word...?
 

Red Sky at Morning

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It's basically God sacrificing himself in human form, right? So it's still a kind of human sacrifice? God may be omnipotent, but he kind of deactivated his powers and made his human avatar Jesus temporarily powerless to stop the execution, yeah?
Like it or hate it, it does appear that God had a very clear plan of redemption in mind:-

1 Peter 3:18-19 King James Version (KJV)

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
 

Lisa

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It's basically God sacrificing himself in human form, right? So it's still a kind of human sacrifice? God may be omnipotent, but he kind of deactivated his powers and made his human avatar Jesus temporarily powerless to stop the execution, yeah?
Matthew‬ ‭26:52-54‬ ‭
Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back into its place; for all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword. Or do you think that I cannot appeal to My Father, and He will at once put at My disposal more than twelve legions of angels? How then will the Scriptures be fulfilled, which say that it must happen this way?”
‭‭
 
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It's basically God sacrificing himself in human form, right? So it's still a kind of human sacrifice? God may be omnipotent, but he kind of deactivated his powers and made his human avatar Jesus temporarily powerless to stop the execution, yeah?
Not according to Jesus. He said that it is He that laid down His life of His own will. Yet, He still had all the attributes of God. He could have brought Himself off of the Cross at any time if he wanted to. And yes it was a Holy Human sacrifice, because God said, "it is not the blood of bulls or goats that He wanted, but to satisfy the law, Christ took it upon Himself to pay the penalty for every man. He was the spotless lamb of God. Hebrews 9:11-15. It was all voluntary.
 
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