"What must I do to be saved?"

[JoChris]

The churchgoers here think that sins which lead to death and even premeditated sins which lead to death do not jeopardize their salvation... only their rewards. They think they go to Heaven for sure no matter what... but they might not get a reward there.

It's this kind of thinking which is why Jesus never sent me to church.

So you have never been to church, but you somehow know that all churches are corrupt?

What do you think of this passage:
Hebrews 10: 23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

Any message you believe you are receiving from God will NEVER contradict the bible.

Psalm 12:6 The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
7 Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

Psalm 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

Therefore any person who believes personal revelation/ visions that contradict the bible is severely deceived.

I am very concerned for you TokEI. People should be way more careful about which churches they attend but you have taken it to the other extreme.

If you are a Christian you need to be part of the body of Christ. (Yes some churches are phoney, but not every single one is.) An organ of the body that is cut off from the body will quickly rot and die.

You are extremely unbalanced in your position. You need support/teachings from true Christians to get all the nutrients you need. An arm does not do the excretion of toxins a kidney does etc etc.

An evangelist does not do the work of a counsellor. A counsellor does not do the work of a pastor. You need support TokEI.

 

[Lisa]

I 4got...what exactly am i deceived about ?

That you’re a ‘Christian’ and an authority on the Bible.

 

[TokiEl]

So you have never been to church, but you somehow know that all churches are corrupt?

No not all but a lot.

What do you think of this passage:
Hebrews 10: 23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

For 2000 years yes but at the threshold of the apocalypse no. State sponsored government churches wallowing in wrong faiths are absolutely out of the question. Besides Jesus is plucking people out of churches. Now you might be in a non gov church i don't know but i'm not going to church as i know i would be thrown right out again with my call for holy living and stop sinning.

 

[TokiEl]

That you’re a ‘Christian’ and an authority on the Bible.

I am a Christian yes and an authority on the Bible right. You got it !

 

[JoChris]

No not all but a lot.




For 2000 years yes but at the threshold of the apocalypse no. State sponsored government churches wallowing in wrong faiths are absolutely out of the question. Besides Jesus is plucking people out of churches. Now you might be in a non gov church i don't know but i'm not going to church as i know i would be thrown right out again with my call for holy living and stop sinning.

How can you know that for sure if you haven't even set a foot in the church? You might feel at home in a small fundamentalist church that preaches faith in Jesus AND holy living. I assume USA would have way more of them than here in Australia.

If you are judging people before you know them ***and causing conflict in the process***, that is what would make you more likely to be rejected. You would want people to give you a chance first surely, you should do that for Christian churches as well.

You will find whom you call fake Christians wherever you go. That is because we are all sinners. We are all works-in-progress.

 

[TokiEl]

How can you know that for sure if you haven't even set a foot in the church? You might feel at home in a small fundamentalist church that preaches faith in Jesus AND holy living. I assume USA would have way more of them than here in Australia.

Apostasy that is falling away from the faith was prophecied in the last days.

Jesus even wondered if He would find faith when He returned.


How could Jesus be concerned if He would really find faith with over one billion christians in the world today ?

 

[JoChris]

Apostasy that is falling away from the faith was propecied in the last days.

Jesus even wondered if He would find faith when He returned.


How could Jesus be concerned if He would really find faith with over one billion christians in the world today ?

Is that including Catholics?
Is that including everyone who had a church denomination put on their birth certificate?
Is that including every person who attended church for a period of time but never truly believed?

There are still Christians out there TokEI. You might have to look hard to find a decent moral church, but they are still there.

Jesus said to Peter that the gates of Hell would not prevail against the church.

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

https://www.gotquestions.org/gates-of-hell.html
http://www.letusreason.org/Biblexp28.htm

Therefore there always will be a church - God's church. Finding the real ones amongst the many counterfeits can be challenging, so I pray that you find the right, genuine church nearby for you TokEI.

 

[TokiEl]

Is that including Catholics?
Is that including everyone who had a church denomination put on their birth certificate?
Is that including every person who attended church for a period of time but never truly believed?

There are still Christians out there TokEI. You might have to look hard to find a decent moral church, but they are still there.

Jesus said to Peter that the gates of Hell would not prevail against the church.

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

https://www.gotquestions.org/gates-of-hell.html
http://www.letusreason.org/Biblexp28.htm

Therefore there always will be a church - God's church. Finding the real ones amongst the many counterfeits can be challenging, so I pray that you find the right, genuine church nearby for you TokEI.

In the sea of counterfeit churches at the threshold of the apocalypse... i choose to focus on Jesus Christ and follow Him.

 

[JoChris]

In the sea of counterfeit churches at the threshold of the apocalypse... i choose to focus on Jesus Christ and follow Him.

Is the Book of Hebrews the Word of God?
If you are a Christian you should obey its commandments too.

Hebrews 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

Since you can see the end-times approaching you should definitely be meeting with other Christians. The unsaved world does not understand. You need support just like everyone else.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Is the Book of Hebrews the Word of God?
If you are a Christian you should obey its commandments too.

Hebrews 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

Since you can see the end-times approaching you should definitely be meeting with other Christians. The unsaved world does not understand. You need support just like everyone else.

I needed to hear this too Jo - I am often a bit of a “spiritual loner” and don’t really consistently attend a fellowship right now. I think I need to make more of an effort with some fellow Christians in my local area.

 

[JoChris]

I needed to hear this too Jo - I am often a bit of a “spiritual loner” and don’t really consistently attend a fellowship right now. I think I need to make more of an effort with some fellow Christians in my local area.

I still have that spiritual loner issue with mine, that church certainly isn't ideal for "intellectual snobs" like me. It is probably challenging for oddballs who fit in this type of forum to find like-minded people offline.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I still have that spiritual loner issue with mine, that church certainly isn't ideal for "intellectual snobs" like me. It is probably challenging for oddballs who fit in this type of forum to find like-minded people offline.

Very incisive! You have me pretty much right there too!!

 

[TokiEl]

Is the Book of Hebrews the Word of God?
If you are a Christian you should obey its commandments too.

Hebrews 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

Since you can see the end-times approaching you should definitely be meeting with other Christians. The unsaved world does not understand. You need support just like everyone else.

I have all the support i need from Jesus Christ.

As you might understand it would be a clash if i ventured into a church.

 

[Lisa]

I have all the support i need from Jesus Christ.

As you might understand it would be a clash if i ventured into a church.

I think the only clash would be that you would find yourself in the wrong which is why you don’t go.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I have all the support i need from Jesus Christ.

As you might understand it would be a clash if i ventured into a church.

Truthfully I really empathise with you @TokiEl - the painful part about becoming one of a body of believers is the way it knocks the rough edges off us. That hurts, and it is more agreeable to our comfort avoid it rather than endure it!

It came hard to me that Jesus had disciples and that he had things to teach them through their relationships with one another.

 

[Lisa]

I still have that spiritual loner issue with mine, that church certainly isn't ideal for "intellectual snobs" like me. It is probably challenging for oddballs who fit in this type of forum to find like-minded people offline.

The Loneliness of the Christian
“The loneliness of the Christian results from his walk with God in an ungodly world, a walk that must often take him away from the fellowship of good Christians as well as from that of the unregenerate world. His God-given instincts cry out for companionship with others of his kind, others who can understand his longings, his aspirations, his absorption in the love of Christ; and because within his circle of friends there are so few who share his inner experiences he is forced to walk alone. The unsatisfied longings of the prophets for human understanding caused them to cry out in their complaint, and even our Lord Himself suffered in the same way.
“The man who has passed on into the divine Presence in actual inner experience will not find many who understand him. He finds few who care to talk about that which is the supreme object of his interest, so he is often silent and preoccupied in the midst of noisy religious shoptalk. For this he earns the reputation of being dull and over-serious, so he is avoided and the gulf between him and society widens. He searches for friends upon whose garments he can detect the smell of myrrh and aloes and cassia out of the ivory palaces, and finding few or none he, like Mary of old, keeps these things in his heart.
“It is this very loneliness that throws him back upon God. His inability to find human companionship drives him to seek in God what he can find nowhere else.”
AW Tozer

 

[TokiEl]

I think the only clash would be that you would find yourself in the wrong which is why you don’t go.

The clash would be me cleaning out bullshite in the church or thrown out trying.

 

[TokiEl]

Truthfully I really empathise with you @TokiEl - the painful part about becoming one of a body of believers is the way it knocks the rough edges off us. That hurts, and it is more agreeable to our comfort avoid it rather than endure it!

It came hard to me that Jesus had disciples and that he had things to teach them through their relationships with one another.

I don't need church and the church don't need me... but both the brethren and the church need Jesus Christ.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I don't need church and the church don't need me... but both the brethren and the church need Jesus Christ.

Instead of “church” as a denomination, think a genuine, honest and vulnerable relationship with fellow followers of Jesus. The “church” is then really wherever two or three are gathered together in His name, even (to an asynchronous and text based extent) on VCF!

 

[TokiEl]

Instead of “church” as a denomination, think a genuine, honest and vulnerable relationship with fellow followers of Jesus. The “church” is then really wherever two or three are gathered together in His name, even (to an asynchronous and text based extent) on VCF!

Well i am here... L0L