What Is Salafism?

Haich

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The Salafi movement or Salafist movement or Salafism is an ultra-conservative reform branch or movement within Sunni Islam that developed in Arabia in the first half of the 18th century. It advocated a return to the traditions of the "forefathers''

There's a difference between following the way of the salaf (those before us who followed the sunnah and Quran well) and being a Salafist.
 

Haich

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From my experience, salafists aren't only ultra conservative but they find it hard to integrate into mainstream society. They frown upon everything, especially things you can't control like free-mixing in the workplace.

In Islam, it's encourage to avoid unnecessary interactions with the opposite sex and some salafists believe it's haram (forbidden).
God doesn't burden people, there are millions of Muslims who work with the opposite sex or come across them in everyday life. It's ridiculous to assume it's haram to be around eachother, the argument Islam brings forward is to avoid chit chatting and unnecessary interactions, in order to lessen the likelihood of sin.

For instance, I'm sure everyone has a flirtatious creep of a guy at their workplace or a slut whose always open for action. By avoiding unnecessary friendly contact with him/her, unless of course you're working on a project or asking for the time, then this person will never have the chance to approach you and if they do, you've already shown and set your boundaries so in hindsight, you've looked out for yourself and protected yourself from unwanted advances.

Some may argue oh, define necessary?

Let's not play dumb, the Intonation of your voice and your facial expressions show the other person if your flirting or being promiscuous. How you act will incite and invite others to invade your personal space.

So yh, salafists are just a tad more passionate and absolute on matters than other sunnis. I don't believe I'm a salafist at all but do try to follow the way of the salaf, those before us who emulated the prophet, his teachings and the Quran.
 

Lady

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Believe it or not, the separation between the sexes is not limited to Salafism. There are Christian sects that also practice this to a degree. I think that it is not God's intention for mankind to be separated from half of itself and is an extreme response in addressing a problem based in the heart of man.
Division is not a directive from God, but from His opponent in order to create miscomprehensions and ignorance of each other and to prevent humanity from becoming unified. Keeping the race separated in as many ways possible so it can be defeated by injustice and elitism within its ranks seems to be the goal of evil.
 
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In theory, the 'salafi' idea is good....ie following the way of the Prophet SAW and his predecessors. What could go wrong right?
it's a bit like a christian saying 'I want to follow christianity the way Jesus and the apostles'.
sounds like a grand idea.

The problem is, it is just an imaginary idea
The context doesn't exist...we're not them and never will be for all kinds of reasons.
 
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Believe it or not, the separation between the sexes is not limited to Salafism. There are Christian sects that also practice this to a degree. I think that it is not God's intention for mankind to be separated from half of itself and is an extreme response in addressing a problem based in the heart of man.
Division is not a directive from God, but from His opponent in order to create miscomprehensions and ignorance of each other and to prevent humanity from becoming unified. Keep the race separated in as many ways possible so it can be defeated by injustice and elitism within its ranks.
nonsense.
 

Lady

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nonsense.
Please explain yourself, otherwise I will assume you are just responding in a contrary manner because you have never, ever agreed with one thing I have said in the year that I have known you and you cannot break yourself out of this pattern. :D
 
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Please explain yourself, otherwise I will assume you are just responding in a contrary manner because you have never, ever agreed with one thing I have said in the year that I have known you and you cannot break yourself out of this pattern. :D
I never disagree for the sake of it but I always give you clear cut arguments why I don't support your views..they usually fall on deaf ears so what's the point?
You said separation/segregation of the sexes is not from God but from Satan
Let's reflect on that

-judaism, Christianity and Islam have various restrictions designed to control human sexual behaviour.
For example in Islam a man cannot look at another person's private parts (unless he she is a doctor).

- modern secular society doesn't for the most part.
Secular society is closer to God?
Religion accepts the fundamental truth that people (not just men but women too) are dominated by the basic urge to fuck.
So the solution in religion is segregation and marriage...as early as possible as a healthy outlet.

Enter modern civilisation where you now literally have men (and women) willingly playing the role of a dog/slave and derive sexual pleasure from that.
Explain that shit to me?
In reality it is not a choice at all...but an addiction.
 

Lady

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@AspiringSoul
Thank you for responding as asked.

It is the same attempt to keep from sinning that has never worked because sin originates in the heart of man. We ourselves cannot apply any outward method to prevent that from happening perhaps even .01% of the time on a consistent basis.

Then again, sin must be defined. I believe God defines it in His Word, the Bible.
An outward application to clean ourselves up will never work as sin is found within the heart of man.
To renew the sinful mind of man is the work of the Holy Spirit as He monitors and teaches man's spirit to become more like Christ.
 
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@AspiringSoul
Thank you for responding as asked.

It is the same attempt to keep from sinning that has never worked because sin originates in the heart of man. We ourselves cannot apply any outward method to prevent that from happening perhaps even .01% of the time on a consistent basis.

Then again, sin must be defined. I believe God defines it in His Word, the Bible.
An outward application to clean ourselves up will never work as sin is found within the heart of man.
To renew the sinful mind of man is the work of the Holy Spirit as He monitors and teaches man's spirit to become more like Christ.
in islam, the path of right-action (islam) and the path of non-action (Ihsan ie what you're talking about) are both good, but obviously the path of non-action is far superior. With the path of right-action you have to make the efforts to subdue your carnal nature by following God's law. The problem is obviously most of us fail in that regard. However in islam if you have the right intention, that will go on your account.
So part of God's law is to segregate the sexes.

What you said was something else altogether
"Division is not a directive from God, but from His opponent in order to create miscomprehensions and ignorance of each other and to prevent humanity from becoming unified"

were you really saying that the laws in the Torah and Quran are from satan?
was it really just another poor dig at islam?

I understand this whole theme well enough but you need to seriously ask yourself, if all this was true then why the hell did christians fall short? think about it, how many people are out there as christians, who have been baptised and had good intentions but still cannot overcome lust? inc homosexual lust?

When I read Paul's teachings I got sucked into the narrative too, the arguments he was trying to get across...namely, on overcoming our carnal nature.
What I learnt was what sufism already talked about in depth
basically it goes like this
we'll always fall short, we're limited...but Jesus was perfect.
Jesus became the archetype of spiritual perfection and union with God (Ihsan).
Therefore rather than us attempt to follow laws based on our limited capacity..why not attain gnosis of Jesus Christ? ie to become One with him. That way, his qualities become our qualities and we don't have to make an effort.
Getting baptised, saying and even believing in the core beliefs...doesn't mean anything, you have to 'remain in Christ'..and they call it the path of Divine love.

do you think this is a way for ordinary people?

this is precisely why islam came into the world because the true christian path is only for people who are truely dedicated to God alone.
Jesus said your eye must remain single
you cannot love both God and mammon at the same time. so a true christian is one who sacrifices every single thing they have in the pursuit of union with God.

Your understanding of christianity is that you say a few choice words, get baptised and the holy spirit magically does everything for you.
 
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You should say, "In Sufism" and not, "in Islam."
If i was specifically referring to strict sufi terms i'd say 'sufism/islamic sufism'. Here I was clearly talking about Islam but with the addition of sufi (and non sufi) based interpretations.
I'm sure you are familiar with the hadith where the Prophet SAW spoke of iman, islam and ihsan, right?

my interpretation of that is vastly different from yours. For example i believe in a universal consciousness which i equate to God's Kalaam (His Word) and link this directly to the experience of Ihsan.

I also referred to the 'path of right action and path of non-action'
these are not islamic or sufi terms but hindu/taoist
however they perfectly explain (when understood) the topic of law vs faith..which is a christian topic

if you do have an understanding of all these topics then maybe you can advise me, otherwise i don't see the point?
 

Haich

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Why do you always talk about Sufism if you're a Sunni?
 
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Why do you always talk about Sufism if you're a Sunni?
sufism/tasawuff is islam...and most sunnis in the world adhere to it's ideas. in fact islam spread in many places exclusively because of sufis.
look at all the famous sufis in the past, most of them were sunni.
rumi, al ghazali, ibn arabi, abdul qadir jilani, moinuddin chishti, ali hujweri etc
 

Karlysymon

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The Salafi movement or Salafist movement or Salafism is an ultra-conservative reform branch or movement within Sunni Islam that developed in Arabia in the first half of the 18th century. It advocated a return to the traditions of the "forefathers''

There's a difference between following the way of the salaf (those before us who followed the sunnah and Quran well) and being a Salafist.
What are the exact definitions of 'traditions of the forefathers'? Does that include owning a slave or just purely Quranic teachings?
Tunisia recently overturned a ban on women marrying non-muslim men and i thought it interesting that there's a ban on polygamy, which, the quran/hadith advocates. Obviously there were people up in arms. So Salafists much prefer a theocracy? What country/region in the Middle East would be best described as heavy with salafism?
 

Haich

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What are the exact definitions of 'traditions of the forefathers'? Does that include owning a slave or just purely Quranic teachings?
Tunisia recently overturned a ban on women marrying non-muslim men and i thought it interesting that there's a ban on polygamy, which, the quran/hadith advocates. Obviously there were people up in arms. So Salafists much prefer a theocracy? What country/region in the Middle East would be best described as heavy with salafism?
The prophet had ways he would worship, ways he'd conduct himself in public and ways he'd speak. Politeness, patience and perseverance a few examples. Many Hadiths explain this...

He'd also pray supplementary prayers in addition to the obligatory ones, he'd pray the night prayer too. A lot of voluntary actions we call the 'sunnah' is what's meant by traditions. It was a way of becoming closer to God.

With regards to forefathers, it really depends on where you're from. We have Somali scholars of the old which outlawed tribalism and there was a time where Qabil (tribe) meant nothing. A man and his word, as well as his relationship with God was all that mattered. It's difficult to emulate exemplary Muslims like this when modern society is riddled with so many temptations for the average man. However, all we can do is try...

Let's be clear, polygamy is not encouraged in Islam. I don't believe people practice it the way it should and I have yet met a couple which are happily in a polygamous relationship. The law to my knowledge was passed at a time in history where it may have been necessary.

In modern day, there's no way it'll work and the vast majority of people don't entertain it. It's important to note, Islam is much more than these media narratives people like to drum up. Many African Christians practice polygamy in west Africa and there are Christians in the states which practice it too. There are numerous shows on TLC that document the lives of men with up to 4 wives...

In fact, polygamy predates Islam and is an ancient practice. Islam came and regulated it and put the power in the hands of women. If a man wants to pursue a polygamous marriage (which is rare), his first wife must consent. Unfortunately in some oppressive cultures, where a woman's voice isn't heard, some men do as they please and marry whom they want. This is not the Islamic way and we can't compare and confuse cultural practices with Islam. In Islam, there are conditions to everything and a woman has a say in her husband's marital endeavours...

I'm not too read up on middle eastern Islamic movements but I know Saudi is Salafist in some regions and Wahabi in others. I'm still unsure about what Wahabism actually is, it's a pretty new thing to me...other regions are usually Sunni with the exception of Oman which is Ibadi and Shia.
 

Etagloc

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I don't think we have to worry about Christians or Muslims taking over the world :D

if the Christians rule the world they'll start fighting over how many angels can dance on the head of a needle

and if the Muslims rule the world they'll start fighting over how many angels can make salat on the head of a needle

I am kidding but I am sort of serious.... it is funny how "the Christians" or "the Muslims" make these groups sound like one entity

but when you look more closely you see fighting within these groups.
 
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Etagloc

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My question is....

Who is a Christian and who is a Muslim?

What makes a Christian a Christian?

And what makes a Muslim a Muslim?
 

Lady

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in islam, the path of right-action (islam) and the path of non-action (Ihsan ie what you're talking about) are both good, but obviously the path of non-action is far superior. With the path of right-action you have to make the efforts to subdue your carnal nature by following God's law. The problem is obviously most of us fail in that regard. However in islam if you have the right intention, that will go on your account.
So part of God's law is to segregate the sexes.

What you said was something else altogether
"Division is not a directive from God, but from His opponent in order to create miscomprehensions and ignorance of each other and to prevent humanity from becoming unified"

were you really saying that the laws in the Torah and Quran are from satan?
was it really just another poor dig at islam?

I understand this whole theme well enough but you need to seriously ask yourself, if all this was true then why the hell did christians fall short? think about it, how many people are out there as christians, who have been baptised and had good intentions but still cannot overcome lust? inc homosexual lust?

When I read Paul's teachings I got sucked into the narrative too, the arguments he was trying to get across...namely, on overcoming our carnal nature.
What I learnt was what sufism already talked about in depth
basically it goes like this
we'll always fall short, we're limited...but Jesus was perfect.
Jesus became the archetype of spiritual perfection and union with God (Ihsan).
Therefore rather than us attempt to follow laws based on our limited capacity..why not attain gnosis of Jesus Christ? ie to become One with him. That way, his qualities become our qualities and we don't have to make an effort.
Getting baptised, saying and even believing in the core beliefs...doesn't mean anything, you have to 'remain in Christ'..and they call it the path of Divine love.

do you think this is a way for ordinary people?

this is precisely why islam came into the world because the true christian path is only for people who are truely dedicated to God alone.
Jesus said your eye must remain single
you cannot love both God and mammon at the same time. so a true christian is one who sacrifices every single thing they have in the pursuit of union with God.

Your understanding of christianity is that you say a few choice words, get baptised and the holy spirit magically does everything for you.
Every reply you have made to me tells me that you have lumped me together with mainline Christianity. I say this not to separate myself from other believers who are in a different place in their faith journey, but to make you aware that you have a deep bias and a knack for making incorrect assumptions.
 
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