What Is Monotheism Really About?

[Aero]

Well yes, we did. We had a whole conversation about that To Catch a Predator show, and I basically repeated myself with additional comments on the subject of repentance.

I have always had this perspective towards repentance. It is very much a spiritual experience that begins with confession.

However, I was 17 when I was saved, so this has probably evolved a little bit since then, but the concept is the same. Repentance is a change in the direction of your life. It is more of a discipline that people blur with the subject of salvation. So salvation comes by repentance and accepting Christ. However, repentance is not a single moment, but a lifelong discipline.

For example, a few years ago, I was struggling really bad because I was abused terribly as a child. I have complex PTSD, which was exacerbated at the time. I became very angry about this. I was in my mid-20's and believed that there were things I knew. There were things I was right about. I thought I was right about why I was suffering because I had already read the Bible several times, been a Christian for several years, so I was right. I thought God was punishing me because I thought I knew for sure that I wasn't suffering because of the abuse I experienced as a child and nothing could change my mind about this.

It was very cyclical. Something happened that would be difficult to handle. I would get mad. I would try to talk myself out of this by rationalizing that it was normal to be mad if you had experienced what I had, and then I would wonder when God would make the pain stop.
Eventually, whether it stopped or not, I would have to keep going. I would keep going and then get in this pattern of thinking over and over again.

So, I started using a Christian workbook for victims of abuse. I learned many things about repentance from this experience.

In particular, the subject of repenting of arrogance came up. When you are suffering from something you didn't deserve, it clouds your judgment. It is hard to know whether you have something to repent of or whether you're blaming yourself for something someone else did.

So when arrogance came up I sat and thought about this. What does it mean to be arrogant if you are a victim of abuse and I realized my anger came from arrogance, but I have found that repenting of arrogance is not the same process as repenting for something you did once, like steal a candy bar in the store. To repent of stealing is something that can be put behind you. Arrogance is constantly in your face and when you begin to repent of this, it is more like you just look at it the same way you would look at a vase full of flowers; or, maybe it is more like looking at a zoo animal wondering what they will do if you look at them long enough.

Repenting of arrogance was more like re-learning a new alphabet. I just kept saying that anger demonstrates this sort of arrogance I have even though I am a victim of severe abuse over and over again the same way you would say the ABC's over and over again before learning to spell.

Then, there was another question in the chapter on repentance that was kind of like having cold water dumped on your head that snapped me out of this coma. The question was, "what does repentance look like in this situation." I think this goes along with what you are saying about taking actions to make the world a better place. It is like asking this question, what does it look like to repent in this situation because we are all lazy at times. We all lie at various times too. We neglect to stand up for other people. So what does repentance look like in practice?

The point is that repentance as a discipline looks different depending on the person. If the coffee you ordered was cold, and this usually made you feel like yelling at your barista, repentance might be politely asking for a new cup of coffee.

If there is someone you work with who is being picked on by some of your coworkers and you are usually quiet about this and let it happen. Repentance would be eating lunch with this person or defending them.

The point of this story is also to show that learning repentance is not about telling other people they need to repent. It's about sharing your own story of how you repented and what you repented of. The Bible teaches that repentance is a self-discipline, not a permission to discipline others.

So it isn't about thinking that God will just make everything work out in the end. It is about knowing that there is no time frame to accept salvation. The offer doesn't expire at 50. The offer doesn't expire at all until we expire. So whether or not someone does anything meaningful with their salvation that would change the world we live in today, they will still be able to accept salvation and this is meaningful.

However, the Bible can also be used to do more than making a strong theological argument. It should be used to create things that help change the world. There are many who are good examples of this, but there are also many who want to go through life in easy mode. Either way, there is nothing lazy about repentance.

That makes more sense to me. It kind of sounds like you are describing the biblical version of Karma. Like using your faith to guide you through the invisible forces of the world. I think we talked about that before too. To me it seems like there are bigger things going on. Like if we are being judged, we are being judged right now. And some people never learn that lesson. Maybe it's a lack of faith or putting faith in the wrong things.

I remember feeling bad for picking on this one kid at church. And taking Jesus into my heart to cure my asthma. But this definitely wasn't a place where justice was being practiced. So it goes back to what I said before about religion being a great learning tool. Because no religion has a monopoly on justice. I mock my Christian upbringing all the time, and Jesus doesn't cry about it. How could he blame me? I could even argue I'm the one fighting for Jesus in that case.

And Jesus doesn't need anyone to fight for him. That's the whole point of the debate about Monotheism. People fighting over their invisible Gods. Fighting over their dreams, and fantasies. I think that blind faith is more dangerous than blasphemy. 100 times out of 100

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

@Aero - I agree with you on blind faith - what you need is a reasonable faith! Real things stand up to reason. So should real faith!

 

[Haich]

are there still many Christians in England?????

I am so surprised.... I always am told that many people there are atheistic.... I am glad there are still religious people in England

I think many are just Christian by association. They were raised to believe in Jesus or their grandparents or parents took them to church. I haven't met a serious Christian in my life, they don't try and abstain from sins such as premarital sex and veil their deceit by claiming to be saved and protected by Jesus Christ.

There is a growing secular or atheist community too where people just don't adhere to anything other than their desires. At work for instance religion has become a taboo subject as it causes offence for many. Personally I don't mind discussing religion at work but it quickly turns into a 'us vs you' debate, which is quite awkward.

I don't.believe a Muslim is commanded at all to 'convert' people. There's a duty to represent your faith as accurately as possible but that's hard to achieve. Like I work with Muslims like me who abstain from alcohol and pork and premarital sex etc. But you'll find Muslims who do all that; however there's always a good guy to balance out the lost apples. I don't see the same with Christianity, many here just get plastered (incredibly drunk) and sleep around on weekends or just commit other sinful acts without any remorse, and it's hard to find good Christians which balance out the majority that I've experienced who are just using Jesus as a means to sin...

I don't know what a practicing Christian is in the Uk maybe it's different in the states

 

[Haich]

The biggest religious communities in the U.K. are Muslims, sikhs and Hindus. You won't really find a huge community solely practising Christianity, it's just unheard of. They're always the minority.

Where I live there's a massive Muslim community and there doesn't seem to be much of a Christian presence, it's usually African evangelical Christians who organise churches but you won't catch a white person there. I don't know where they build their churches at all

I work in central London and there's a lot of white middle class people, presumably Christians but there's not a church in sight. However, there are 2 mosques in central London and Muslims are a minority there.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

The biggest religious communities in the U.K. are Muslims, sikhs and Hindus. You won't really find a huge community solely practising Christianity, it's just unheard of. They're always the minority.

Where I live there's a massive Muslim community and there doesn't seem to be much of a Christian presence, it's usually African evangelical Christians who organise churches but you won't catch a white person there. I don't know where they build their churches at all

I work in central London and there's a lot of white middle class people, presumably Christians but there's not a church in sight. However, there are 2 mosques in central London and Muslims are a minority there.

I think you have always had Christian individuals...

I hope I don't fit the Church of Laodacea picture of some of the Christians you know...

Where you have had a "Christian Country" in the past it is more often than not a Catholic one, and misunderstands the point Jesus made in John 18...

"33Then Pilate entered into the judgment hall again, and called Jesus, and said unto him, Art thou the King of the Jews?34Jesus answered him, Sayest thou this thing of thyself, or did others tell it thee of me? 35Pilate answered, Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me: what hast thou done? 36Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. 37Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice."

 

[Karlysymon]

@Karlysymon - your perspective on hell.

Hebrews 2

1Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip. 2For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; 3How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; 4God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

Escape from what then? Just asking...

I think i may have caused some confusion so i will lay out what my view on hell is.

When Adam and Eve sinned, God meant it, that they would die (not live on forever in a jail cell). Ofcourse He provided a life-line for those willing to take it. The ultimate punishment for rebellion is death....to cease to exist. Not for a body/soul to live on for aeons in a fire-pit. Todd believes in Universal reconciliation and if i understand his beliefs correctly, after the earth is renewed, every rebel, from Satan to the last one in our day will be restored into God's presence. I don't accept this because it undermines the concept of over-coming sin and does despite to God's kindness. Why should i bother with overcoming evil if i will still end up in heaven anyway.

When Christ returns, the wicked will be *destroyed* by the brightness of His coming (2 Thess 1:5-9). The prophecies about the destruction of Babylon (Jeremiah 51 and Rev 18) state that:

vs 39
But while they are aroused, I will set out a feast for them and make them drunk, so that they shout with laughter— then sleep forever and not
awake,”
vs 57
I will make her officials and wise men drunk, her governors, officers and warriors as well; they will sleep forever and not awake,” declares the King, whose name is the LORD Almighty.

For me, its clear as day. The wicked will cease to exist, forever banished from the presence of God. That is real death. The second death, from which there is no resurrection (Rev 20:5,6,14,15) No one is going to be squirming in a hell-hole for aeons. That is what we are urged to escape from. No one wants to die and God implores us to choose life (Deut 30:11-19) but we have freewill and not everyone will choose life.

Ezekiel 33:11
Say to them, ‘As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign
LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil
ways! Why will you die, O house of Israel?’

Jude 7
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual
immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire".

What i don't believe is a hell-hole, somewhere under the earth with Cain, King Saul, Judas Iscariot, Hitler in it right now. Sodom and its inhabitants were reduced to a crisp because fire consumes. The same fate awaits every rebel at the end of the age. The punishment is eternal, in that they will NEVER rise up from/escape it. It isn't an eternally burning pit.

Hell requires maintainance btw.
I've read accounts of people who have walked away from christianity because of this doctrine. It undermines God's character. They ask: How can a just and loving God do this? Why not just blot people into nothingness rather than confine them to a torture chamber for eternity?
Don't know about y'all but my God doesn't delight in suffering. I already put up the CSLewis quote. Those who want their independence, to exist apart from Him, they will have their wishes fulfilled. God will pull the plug. They will cease to exist because they cannot self-exist/self-create.

 

[Haich]

I think you have always had Christian individuals...

I hope I don't fit the Church of Laodacea picture of some of the Christians you know...

Where you have had a "Christian Country" in the past it is more often than not a Catholic one, and misunderstands the point Jesus made in John 18...

"33Then Pilate entered into the judgment hall again, and called Jesus, and said unto him, Art thou the King of the Jews?34Jesus answered him, Sayest thou this thing of thyself, or did others tell it thee of me? 35Pilate answered, Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me: what hast thou done? 36Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. 37Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice."

Catholicism is pretty much Christianity, there are of course differing parts of belief but it's a branch nonetheless or comes under the umbrella of the Christian faith

Well I'm only going on experience, I haven't met you at all and can't really come to any conclusions about your commitment to the church or to your faith; what are your experiences of living in the UK? Is your area quite 'Christian'?

There's no unity with Christians here, there are just too many differing denominations and no one is ever comfortable voicing which church or denomination they follow, although the evangelical community is almost always African or carribean and they're pretty vocal, always preaching in the streets and inviting people to their churches

There was a nice evangelical church next to one of the local mosques, they would always put on an interfaith show where they brought the community together with food. It's not common though, it's usually mosques or Gudwaras or temples doing the community work

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Catholicism is pretty much Christianity, there are of course differing parts of belief but it's a branch nonetheless or comes under the umbrella of the Christian faith

Well I'm only going on experience, I haven't met you at all and can't really come to any conclusions about your commitment to the church or to your faith; what are your experiences of living in the UK? Is your area quite 'Christian'?

There's no unity with Christians here, there are just too many differing denominations and no one is ever comfortable voicing which church or denomination they follow, although the evangelical community is almost always African or carribean and they're pretty vocal, always preaching in the streets and inviting people to their churches

There was a nice evangelical church next to one of the local mosques, they would always put on an interfaith show where they brought the community together with food. It's not common though, it's usually mosques or Gudwaras or temples doing the community work

On the contrary, Haich, the true Christians here have unity in our faith in Jesus as Lord and Saviour. Everything else is of secondary importance. Denominations don't get much of a mention because they often really only represent small differences in emphasis and interpretation of certain doctrines.

I don't really do denominations anymore - I grew up C of E, went to Baptist churches, Methodist, Independent and Pentecostal. I don't think it really matters to God as these are just groupings given names by people. I try to follow the Bible and the Holy Spirit and go where both are welcome!

 

[Haich]

On the contrary, Haich, the true Christians here have unity in our faith in Jesus as Lord and Saviour. Everything else is of secondary importance. Denominations don't get much of a mention because they often really only represent small differences in emphasis and interpretation of certain doctrines.

I don't really do denominations anymore - I grew up C of E, went to Baptist churches, Methodist, Independent and Pentecostal. I don't think it really matters to God as these are just groupings given names by people. I try to follow the Bible and the Holy Spirit and go where both are welcome!

I wasn't talking about the Christians on the forum, I was talking about the UK

 

[Camidria]

Catholicism is pretty much Christianity, there are of course differing parts of belief but it's a branch nonetheless or comes under the umbrella of the Christian faith

Can I ask very gently that we not compare Christianity and Catholicism, please the Pope has the audacity to blaspheme and say God is beneath him and that he (the Pope) is god and that he (the Pope) can forgive sins. And the Catholics basically covertly controls some of the denominations (not all), there is a HUGE deception in regards to this.

I think many are just Christian by association. They were raised to believe in Jesus or their grandparents or parents took them to church. I haven't met a serious Christian in my life, they don't try and abstain from sins such as premarital sex and veil their deceit by claiming to be saved and protected by Jesus Christ.

Many of the Christians in South Africa are truly serious (I know you asked about UK but I want to tell you about South Africa), just to give you an example my one friend broke up with her boyfriend when he kept on pushing her to do things that belongs in marriage (everything else except sex), this is how serious many of us are to keeping pure. There are still many that are Christian by association, but what I have seen in our non denominational Churches is a seriousness to follow Jesus example and live pure lives with an intimate relationship and guidance from Jesus.

 

[Etagloc]

Catholicism is a branch of Christianity.

And for hundreds of years, maybe over a thousand years, Catholicism was Christianity. Protestantism wasn't even around until something like the 1500's. And Martin Luther was a heretic who turned Christians against Christians.

 

[rainerann]

Catholicism is a branch of Christianity.

And for hundreds of years, maybe over a thousand years, Catholicism was Christianity. Protestantism wasn't even around until something like the 1500's. And Martin Luther was a heretic who turned Christians against Christians.

Well, no. It is more accurate to say that Catholicism is a branch of Christianity because of the great schism that happened that separated the orthodox church from what we know as the Catholic church in 1054. So, the Catholic church only existed for about 500 years between this period and the time of the next schism we call the Prostestant reformation.

Before this when the orthodox church was combined with what eventually became the Catholic church, it wasn't the same church we are familiar with today. It is only because many of us are more versed in European history that we are under this impression because the Orthodox church existed outside of Europe ever since this time.

So there was a universal church until the eastern section of the church could no longer support the western portion and this resulted in the first two denominations.

The orthodox church never accepted a Pope. They still refer to their leaders as Bishops which is according to the original definition. It is a much different church that remains more consistent with the history of the early church.

The exposure to this reality during the time of the Prostestant reformation was limited because they didn't have the opportunity to communicate with these people the way we would. All they knew was they wanted to get away from the Catholic church too.

So, there is still a unity that is created because of the rejection of Catholicism within the history of Christianity. There has been a consistent rejection of this branch wherever there is the opportunity to study the scripture independently.

 

[Etagloc]

Ah, okay. I forget about the Orthodox.

In any case, Catholicism is still a form of Christianity and practiced by millions of people who can study the scriptures independently and still remain Catholic

 

[Etagloc]

Catholicism has done a lot of good for the world

that is why the Illuminati tried to eliminate it!

(and infiltrated the church in the mid-20th century- I'm not a fan of the current pope but there was a coup around the mid-20th century within the church- I support the pre-coup Catholic church- which was a powerful force for good and which was persecuted)

 

[Etagloc]

 

[Etagloc]

RIP Oscar Romero, a great hero

 

[Haich]

Many of the Christians in South Africa are truly serious (I know you asked about UK but I want to tell you about South Africa), just to give you an example my one friend broke up with her boyfriend when he kept on pushing her to do things that belongs in marriage (everything else except sex), this is how serious many of us are to keeping pure. There are still many that are Christian by association, but what I have seen in our non denominational Churches is a seriousness to follow Jesus example and live pure lives with an intimate relationship and guidance from Jesus.

Why's it always a guy pushing for sex lol no matter where you are in the world, the story never changes! Here i would say it goes both ways, there's just no importance placed on chastity especially in an environment which propagates and promotes hypersexuality. To have pre-marital sex is seen as a liberation and a freedom, there's absolutely no education on the long term effects of it. I guess this is why religion is 'dead', there's just too much temptation and no accountability.

It seems there is a sense devotion in your community, it's interesting to see how religion is practiced in different areas of the globe. Thanks for sharing.

 

[rainerann]

Catholicism has done a lot of good for the world

that is why the Illuminati tried to eliminate it!

(and infiltrated the church in the mid-20th century- I'm not a fan of the current pope but there was a coup around the mid-20th century within the church- I support the pre-coup Catholic church- which was a powerful force for good and which was persecuted)

I actually agree with this and think that an effort to destroy the church is actually what caused the schism that would lead to the inquisition to begin with. For a long time there have been people trying to eliminate the church.

It remains a source of persecution for the rest of us because of the way people use the things these people have done as an evidence of an overall hypocrisy within our doctrine that doesn't exist.

There are people who have done good things that belonged to the Catholic church. However, the Catholic church is evidence of efforts to corrupt the church at the same time.

The subject of the pope in general was a reason for the first schism. There is nothing within our doctrine that justifies the position of a pope.

 

[Etagloc]

I actually agree with this and think that an effort to destroy the church is actually what caused the schism that would lead to the inquisition to begin with. For a long time there have been people trying to eliminate the church.

It remains a source of persecution for the rest of us because of the way people use the things these people have done as an evidence of an overall hypocrisy within our doctrine that doesn't exist.

There are people who have done good things that belonged to the Catholic church. However, the Catholic church is evidence of efforts to corrupt the church at the same time.

The subject of the pope in general was a reason for the first schism. There is nothing within our doctrine that justifies the position of a pope.

Well... if that is what you mean when you say "persecution".

When I said persecution, I was referring to the brave men and women who were killed and the nuns who were raped for their Catholic faith.

all these men, along with many others, were killed for their Catholicism

https://catholicgene.wordpress.com/2012/05/27/mexicos-forgotten-history-the-persecution-of-catholics-and-the-cristero-war/

over 30,000 Cristeros were killed defending Catholicism during the Cristero war

 

[rainerann]

Well... if that is what you mean when you say "persecution".

When I said persecution, I was referring to the brave men and women who were killed and the nuns who were raped for their Catholic faith.

all these men were killed for their Catholicism

https://catholicgene.wordpress.com/2012/05/27/mexicos-forgotten-history-the-persecution-of-catholics-and-the-cristero-war/

I am well aware of the accomplishments of the Catholic church. If you are in the US, you are familiar with at least one hospital that is named after a saint. These are all Catholic hospitals. They have their own hospital networks that across the country and were created without any government coercion. They were created according to the teachings in the Gospel to help the sick and afflicted.

Although, yes, when people need an argument to criticize the church with, they often turn to other events throughout history that the Catholic church is affiliated with.

I think you have even done this before. Not saying its not nice to see more balance to your argument.