What does the Koran actually say about prayer?

shankara

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Sura
22:49. Say: "O men! I am (sent) to you only to give a Clear Warning:
22:50. Those who believe and work righteousness, for them is forgiveness and a sustenance most generous.
22:51. But those who strive against Our Signs, to frustrate them,- they will be Companions of The Fire."
22:52. Never did We send an Apostle or a Prophet before thee, but, when he framed a desire, Satan threw some (vanity) into his desire: but "I AM" will cancel anything (vain) that Satan throws in, and "I AM" will confirm (and establish) His Signs: for "I AM" is full of Knowledge and Wisdom:
22:53. That He may make the suggestions thrown in by Satan, but a trial for those in whose hearts is a disease and who are hardened of heart: verily the wrong-doers are in a schism far (from the Truth):
22:54. And that those on whom Knowledge has been bestowed may learn that the (Koran) is the Truth from thy Lord, and that they may believe therein, and their hearts may be made humbly (open) to it: for verily "I AM" is the Guide, of those who believe, to The Straight Way.

The Message that concurs throughout all of the Books:

Just Worship ONLY God.

Only God is Pure. The Books themselves, are not pure. The prophets and apostles themselves, were not pure (not perfect). That means, not even Jesus (The Example) is to be worshiped instead of/in place of God. As he told everyone:

Matt. 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou ME good? [there is] none good but One, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into Life, keep the Commandments.

Matt. 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven IS perfect.

And certainly not Muhammad, either:

Sura 3:144. Muhammad is no more than an Apostle: many were the Apostles that passed away before him. If he died or were slain, will ye then turn back on your heels? If any did turn back on his heels, not the least harm will he do to God; but God (on the other hand) will swiftly reward those who (serve Him) with gratitude.

Sura 18:110. Say: "I am only a man like yourselves, (but) the inspiration has come to me, that your God is One God: whoever expects to meet his Lord, let him work righteousness, and, in the worship of his Lord, admit no one as His partner.

The Instruction is never to worship the Prophets and Apostles, (or any Angel or Messenger) but to take heed of God's Message that they bring to Mankind (as Warners) and to take heed of and obey them. -

Sura 3:31. Say: "If ye do love God, follow me: God will love you and forgive you your sins: for God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."
3:32. Say: "Obey God and His Messenger": but if they turn back, God loveth not those who reject Faith.

This is the true account:

Sura
3:18. There is no God but He: that is the witness of God, His angels, and those endued with Knowledge, standing firm on justice. There is no God but He, the Exalted in Power, the Wise.
3:19. The Religion before God is eagerly desiring to do His Will: nor did the People of The Book (Bible) dissent therefrom except through envy of each other, after Knowledge had come to them. But if any deny the Signs of God, God is swift in calling to account.

Sura
3:58. This is what We rehearse unto thee of the Signs and the Message of Wisdom.
3:59. The similitude of Jesus (the human) before God is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be": and he was.
3:60. The Truth (comes) from God alone; so be not of those who doubt.
3:61. If any one disputes in this matter with thee, now after (full) knowledge hath come to thee, say: "Come! let us gather together,- our sons and your sons, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves: then let us earnestly pray, and invoke the curse of God on those who lie!"
3:62. This is the true account: there is no god except God; and God- He is indeed the Exalted in Power, the Wise.

Peace be upon you and within you.
Yeah all this Abrahamic stuff with eternal hell and predestination really leaves me cold. If you look at it as an esoteric teaching employing symbols to illuminate hidden truths, it can make some sense, but in all of its dogmatic forms it's ridiculous. And you may think that you are free from such dogmas by rejecting "organized religion" (or as it might be better named, the "exoteric"), actually your teaching still includes them - the two aforementioned, for example, and the whole God-Satan dualism.

This latter fails to comprehend that what is known as "Satan", "Lucifer" etc is not some individual being who made some mistake but a universal potency which leads us to experience material existence in order to attain a state of individual self realization rather than the elemental bliss of non-identity (symbolized by the Garden of Eden). This world is not some mistake that we have to get out of in order to return to an original position, it is an opportunity for self-realization, for becoming realized beings who have had experience rather than innocent beings without experience. All beings must first have "knowledge of good and evil" in order to attain self-realization (by overcoming themselves and the desires of the body, meaning that a self and a body are both necessary parts of the process).
 
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This latter fails to comprehend that what is known as "Satan", "Lucifer" etc is not some individual being who made some mistake but a universal potency which leads us to experience material existence in order to attain a state of individual self realization rather than the elemental bliss of non-identity (symbolized by the Garden of Eden). This world is not some mistake that we have to get out of in order to return to an original position, it is an opportunity for self-realization, for becoming realized beings who have had experience rather than innocent beings without experience. All beings must first have "knowledge of good and evil" in order to attain self-realization (by overcoming themselves and the desires of the body, meaning that a self and a body are both necessary parts of the process).
Isn't this Satanism 101?
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shankara

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Isn't this Satanism 101?
No, you don't understand. I'm not suggesting that people should worship Satan. He represents slavery and being caught up in the bonds of matter, addiction, materialistic ignorance, everything bad, basically. This material existence (many, in fact) is something that we have to go through in order to have the possibility of attaining self-realization, recapturing our lost innocence but with consciousness and individual identity rather than in a state of unconscious bliss with no identity. The point of the whole process is to overcome what keeps us bound to matter, to face up to the darkness and overcome it.

All I'm saying is that the darkness has to be there in order for us to have the opportunity to overcome it. There is reason behind all of this world, it isn't a mistake or the result of an error.
 
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No, you don't understand. I'm not suggesting that people should worship Satan. He represents slavery and being caught up in the bonds of matter, addiction, materialistic ignorance, everything bad, basically. This material existence (many, in fact) is something that we have to go through in order to have the possibility of attaining self-realization, recapturing our lost innocence but with consciousness and individual identity rather than in a state of unconscious bliss with no identity. The point of the whole process is to overcome what keeps us bound to matter, to face up to the darkness and overcome it.

All I'm saying is that the darkness has to be there in order for us to have the opportunity to overcome it. There is reason behind all of this world, it isn't a mistake or the result of an error.
Are you trying, in your theory, to implicitly refute the Genesis story and original sin? The differences between the Genesis story and the Quranic story are very important to note, and you may find that they answer some of the problems you have with the Biblical account.

-- Man was intended to dwell on Earth, before Adam and Eve ate from the forbidden tree. So being in this state of bliss and innocence was always meant to be temporary. "And when thy Lord said unto the angels: Lo! I am about to place a viceroy in the earth, they said: wilt Thou place therein one who will do harm therein and will shed blood, while we, we hymn Thy praise and sanctify Thee? He said: Surely I know that which ye know not." (Quran, 2:30)
-- God indicates that the unique thing about man, out of all His other creation, is that he can learn. "He taught Adam all the names of everything." (Quran, 2:31) Although man was created weak and subject to desires, he can learn from his mistakes.
-- "O Adam! Dwell you and your wife in the Paradise and eat both of you freely with pleasure and delight of things therein as wherever you will, but come not near this tree or you both will be of the dhalimin (wrong doers)." (Quran, 2:35)
-- “So he (Satan) misled them with deception.” (Quran, 7:22)
-- God knew, before Adam and Eve ate of the forbidden tree, that they would commit this sin. Their sin was not some kind of Pandora's box that brought evil and sin into the world.
-- Adam and Eve both bore equal responsibility for their eating of the tree. Eve did not tempt Adam; she was not the weaker of the two.
-- Their doing so was a mistake. They had not hitherto experienced the cunning deceptions of Satan. The sin, and the ensuing consequence served as an important lesson to all mankind about Satan's tricks and illusions, and about the consequences of sin. Satan was firmly established in this way as a clear enemy to humankind. "Children of Adam, did We not command you not to worship satan. He was your sworn enemy." (Quran 36:60)
-- The descendants of Adam do not bear the sin of their forefather. They are not punished for it. Every human is born free of sin. "No bearer of burdens shall bear another's burden." (Quran, 35:18)
-- God told Adam and Eve that heaven was no longer to be their abode. Their home was now Earth, for a fixed time. “Get you down (upon the earth), all of you together, from Paradise, some of you are an enemy to some others. Then, if there comes to you guidance from Me, whoever follows My Guidance shall neither go astray, nor fall into distress and misery.” (Quran, 20:123)
-- Adam and Eve repented sincerely after their sin. God forgave them in His infinite mercy. The prayer that God gave them with which they could ask for forgiveness: “Our Lord! We have wronged ourselves. If you forgive us not and bestow not upon us Your Mercy, we shall certainly be of the losers.” (Quran, 7:23) We may also use the same prayer to ask God to forgive us.
-- Adam and Eve's descent to Earth was not one of humiliation or degradation.
-- Earth is not our true home. We are here only for a fixed time. We will return to God in the hereafter, and go either to heaven or to hell. Heaven is for those who follow the guidance that God sends to Earth, and submit to God humbly.
-- "O Children of Adam! Let not Satan seduce you as he caused your (first) parents to go forth from the Garden and tore off from them their robe (of innocence) that be might manifest their shame to them. Lo! he seeth you, he and his tribe, from whence ye see him not. Lo! We have made the devils protecting friends for those who believe not." (Quran, 7:27)
-- The battle between good and evil continues on Earth. Each man is responsible for his own actions.
 

shankara

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Are you trying, in your theory, to implicitly refute the Genesis story and original sin? The differences between the Genesis story and the Quranic story are very important to note, and you may find that they answer some of the problems you have with the Biblical account.

-- Man was intended to dwell on Earth, before Adam and Eve ate from the forbidden tree. So being in this state of bliss and innocence was always meant to be temporary. "And when thy Lord said unto the angels: Lo! I am about to place a viceroy in the earth, they said: wilt Thou place therein one who will do harm therein and will shed blood, while we, we hymn Thy praise and sanctify Thee? He said: Surely I know that which ye know not." (Quran, 2:30)
-- God indicates that the unique thing about man, out of all His other creation, is that he can learn. "He taught Adam all the names of everything." (Quran, 2:31) Although man was created weak and subject to desires, he can learn from his mistakes.
-- "O Adam! Dwell you and your wife in the Paradise and eat both of you freely with pleasure and delight of things therein as wherever you will, but come not near this tree or you both will be of the dhalimin (wrong doers)." (Quran, 2:35)
-- “So he (Satan) misled them with deception.” (Quran, 7:22)
-- God knew, before Adam and Eve ate of the forbidden tree, that they would commit this sin. Their sin was not some kind of Pandora's box that brought evil and sin into the world.
-- Adam and Eve both bore equal responsibility for their eating of the tree. Eve did not tempt Adam; she was not the weaker of the two.
-- Their doing so was a mistake. They had not hitherto experienced the cunning deceptions of Satan. The sin, and the ensuing consequence served as an important lesson to all mankind about Satan's tricks and illusions, and about the consequences of sin. Satan was firmly established in this way as a clear enemy to humankind. "Children of Adam, did We not command you not to worship satan. He was your sworn enemy." (Quran 36:60)
-- The descendants of Adam do not bear the sin of their forefather. They are not punished for it. Every human is born free of sin. "No bearer of burdens shall bear another's burden." (Quran, 35:18)
-- God told Adam and Eve that heaven was no longer to be their abode. Their home was now Earth, for a fixed time. “Get you down (upon the earth), all of you together, from Paradise, some of you are an enemy to some others. Then, if there comes to you guidance from Me, whoever follows My Guidance shall neither go astray, nor fall into distress and misery.” (Quran, 20:123)
-- Adam and Eve repented sincerely after their sin. God forgave them in His infinite mercy. The prayer that God gave them with which they could ask for forgiveness: “Our Lord! We have wronged ourselves. If you forgive us not and bestow not upon us Your Mercy, we shall certainly be of the losers.” (Quran, 7:23) We may also use the same prayer to ask God to forgive us.
-- Adam and Eve's descent to Earth was not one of humiliation or degradation.
-- Earth is not our true home. We are here only for a fixed time. We will return to God in the hereafter, and go either to heaven or to hell. Heaven is for those who follow the guidance that God sends to Earth, and submit to God humbly.
-- "O Children of Adam! Let not Satan seduce you as he caused your (first) parents to go forth from the Garden and tore off from them their robe (of innocence) that be might manifest their shame to them. Lo! he seeth you, he and his tribe, from whence ye see him not. Lo! We have made the devils protecting friends for those who believe not." (Quran, 7:27)
-- The battle between good and evil continues on Earth. Each man is responsible for his own actions.
Yeah I like the Islamic interpretation better, the idea of being "stained" by some sin of our ancestors is absurd. But I like the Genesis story too. There's a Gnostic interpretation that the serpent was a kind of liberator, that the Garden of Eden was the false paradise of the Demiurge, and by eating from the tree humanity was "cast down" into the painful existence of this earth but freed from the false innocence of the Demiurge's "paradise". So the serpent saying "you will become gods, knowing good and evil" was not an empty lie, but was true in the sense that the human existence on earth gives us the opportunity to awaken and spiritually evolve towards a state of total consciousness, a spiritual existence where innocence is regained without the loss of the wisdom of experience... and when that arrives, those who attain it could quite truly be said to be "gods".
 
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Perhaps you know my response already, but man cannot become like God. Man can only submit himself to God, and it is therein that true success lies.
 
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It was not Satan that gave us knowledge of good and evil. That was a God-given quality inherent in us already, it just took us to sin first to realise that it is Satan's tricks that can mislead us. But yes, life is a testing ground, where we must overcome evil, and uphold good.
 

Forever Light

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By the way, I was talking to Forever Light because he/she is obviously into the "JahTruth" thing, which has this whole wierd story about us all being fallen angels and the creation of the world as a prison for evil "spirit beings" who engaged in some kind of rebellion on another planet.
To me, the most important thing in all of it is the realization of the Truth, which is, that there is no god but God.

Realizing this to be the truth is what sets you free - including, but not limited to, being set-free from having to be subject to the whims of other imperfect created beings.

The "war in heaven" started because of people having fallen into the worship of a created being (an Archangel) in place of, or in preference to God (Love, Good and Truth; Light). As soon as that happens, those involved start to learn from (and therefore become subject to and complicit with) the imperfect created being which they are worshipping, instead of from The One True (Perfect) God or "Force", from which all that is created, springs and has its origin.

To my mind, it is what caused "the fall" - making created beings into false gods (which starts first with thoughts, and that then will inevitably will lead to imperfect words and imperfect actions) and worshiping (trusting) them implicitly (foolishly), rather than trusting (and therefore, worshiping) only the One TRUE God (Who is Perfect) and learning from Him, in every moment, how to be, and in all situations.

Christ said, ye shall know the Truth, and the Truth will set you free.

Falling into worship (beginning with idolizing) of other created-beings (turning them into heroes and then into false gods) is the beginning of "The Fall". This to me, is the problem, and it is also the test, and has been a "key" realization for me, which I feel joy in being able to share with others, if possible.

If you look at the world, meaning people, it seems as if nearly everyone is STILL doing this in one way or another - worshiping and following after other imperfect (like themselves) created beings. Through this mistake, they make themselves subject to the whims (and faults) of other imperfect people - who ultimately, are the idols of their own making. Through that, others faults are taken on and you become part of it.

Is it easy to break out of "the habit"? No, but with God, nothing shall be impossible.

If that stopped, and everyone returned to just worshiping only God, everyone would be inspired to do the right thing and behave the right way towards others and the world (environment) itself. But, people don't do this.

For me, "the narrative" is given and it is there to assist. The ultimate goal, being redemptive (and thus meaningful) spiritual growth.
 
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Forever Light

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The theme of this runs throughout, and can be seen in people from the start:

Exodus
20:19 And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.
20:20 And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that fear of Him may be before your faces, that ye sin not.
20:21 And the people stood afar off, and Moses drew near unto the thick darkness where God [was].
20:22 And the "I AM" said unto Moses, Thus thou shalt say unto the children of Israel, Ye have seen that I have talked with you from heaven.
20:23 Ye shall not make with Me gods of silver, neither shall ye make unto you gods of gold.

Deuteronomy
5:25 Now therefore why should we die? for this great fire will consume us: if we hear the voice of the "I AM" our God any more, then we shall die.
5:26 For who [is there of] all flesh, that hath heard the voice of the living God speaking out of the midst of the fire, as we [have], and lived?
5:27 Go thou near, and hear all that the "I AM" our God shall say: and speak thou unto us ALL that the "I AM" our God shall speak unto thee; and we will hear [it], and DO [it].
5:28 And the "I AM" heard the voice of your words, when ye spoke unto me; and the "I AM" said unto me, I have heard the voice of the words of this people, which they have spoken unto thee: they have well said all that they have spoken.
5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would respect Me, and keep ALL My Commandments ALWAYS, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

32:28 For they [are] a nation void of counsel, neither [is there any] understanding in them.
32:29 O that they were wise, [that] they understood this, [that] they would consider their latter end!
 

shankara

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To me, the most important thing in all of it is the realization of the Truth, which is, that there is no god but God.

Realizing this to be the truth is what sets you free - including, but not limited to, being set-free from having to be subject to the whims of other imperfect created beings.

The "war in heaven" started because of people having fallen into the worship of a created being (an Archangel) in place of, or in preference to God (Love, Good and Truth; Light). As soon as that happens, those involved start to learn from (and therefore become subject to and complicit with) the imperfect created being which they are worshipping, instead of from The One True (Perfect) God or "Force", from which all that is created, springs and has its origin.

To my mind, it is what caused "the fall" - making created beings into false gods (which starts first with thoughts, and that then will inevitably will lead to imperfect words and imperfect actions) and worshiping (trusting) them implicitly (foolishly), rather than trusting (and therefore, worshiping) only the One TRUE God (Who is Perfect) and learning from Him, in every moment, how to be, and in all situations.

Christ said, ye shall know the Truth, and the Truth will set you free.

Falling into worship (beginning with idolizing) of other created-beings (turning them into heroes and then into false gods) is the beginning of "The Fall". This to me, is the problem, and it is also the test, and has been a "key" realization for me, which I feel joy in being able to share with others, if possible.

If you look at the world, meaning people, it seems as if nearly everyone is STILL doing this in one way or another - worshiping and following after other imperfect (like themselves) created beings. Through this mistake, they make themselves subject to the whims (and faults) of other imperfect people - who ultimately, are the idols of their own making. Through that, others faults are taken on and you become part of it.

Is it easy to break out of "the habit"? No, but with God, nothing shall be impossible.

If that stopped, and everyone returned to just worshiping only God, everyone would be inspired to do the right thing and behave the right way towards others and the world (environment) itself. But, people don't do this.

For me, "the narrative" is given and it is there to assist. The ultimate goal, being redemptive (and thus meaningful) spiritual growth.
Ok, sure, some of the stuff you are saying makes sense in a way. I agree that every religion is cultish to some extent or another, having strayed far from the essence of the teachings which were originally given. But aren't you, in setting up this John Anthony Hill guy as a mediator and "high priest" falling into exactly the same thing? If he were really some extraordinarily realized being then perhaps he could transmit some kind of spiritual force to his followers, but from reading his writings I really don't get that feeling, they don't reach me in the same way as when I read genuine scriptures (be they Buddhist, Christian, whatever).

All this thing about the "war and heaven" and everyone soon being cast into "the fire", it's not the proper interpretation of those ideas. The whole thing about the rebellion against God is the idea of going from a state of unconscious unity and innocence to a state of conscious unity and innocence, overcoming ego but not losing the individuality which we develop through embodiment. Of course, on the way there is a lot of suffering. What I'm trying to say is that there is a purpose to all of this, it isn't because of something which shouldn't have happened, as you are teaching. The human state is where we are given the chance to evolve or to regress back to animal etc and go through the process again. There is no definitive condemnation for failure.

You are talking about humans having previously been angels or "spirit beings", the point that you aren't getting is that in order to become an "angel", Buddha, whatever you want to call it, there is the necessity of passing through the human stage first.
 

A Freeman

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From: The Way home or face The Fire,
Chapter 4: The first test and regression to following Satan.


4:6 The simple story; of Adam (man) and Eve (woman), and the trees of the “Knowledge of Good” (God) and the “Knowledge of Evil” (d/evil); seems never to have been understood, by anyone on Earth, and yet it is very straight-forward, and easy to understand.
4:7 God walked in the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve, and talked with them, teaching them to eat (digest) the “Knowledge of Good” (His truth), and warned them not to eat from the “Tree of the Knowledge of Evil” (Satan’s lies), or they would die.
4:8 They already had access, to the fruit of the “Tree of the Knowledge of Good”, and were eating it, and, if they ate from the “Tree of the Knowledge of Evil”, they would then know that there was good, and evil, and become confused. In their confusion, they would never find their way home, and would die.
4:9 If they obeyed God, there would be no confusion, or conflict, in their minds, and they would learn only good, from God - the Tree (or source) of the Knowledge of Good (TRUTH), quickly and easily, and live forever. As they learned from God’s teachings, they would become more and more like Him, until, once they became enough like Him (like Jesus’ example), they would be pardoned and then released from this planet (Earth), and allowed to go home, back to their real homes and families, out in the Universe, and LIVE forever.
4:10 God was telling them: “In the day that you listen to that liar again, instead of to Me - eat from the Tree (source) of the Knowledge of Evil (lies) - you will die (Gen. 2:17 & Deut. 30:15).”
4:11 The serpent (Satan the liar/devil) told Eve that God was lying to her, and that if she believed him, instead of God, she would be like God, which, of course, coming from the liar (devil), was a LIE.
4:12 Eve believed the liar (devil), instead of God, and convinced Adam to believe the liar too, repeating, for a second time, the “original sin” that had caused the war, and, from that day; EXACTLY as God (the TRUTH/WORD - John 1:1-5) told them; people have been dying ever since. So God told you the TRUTH, as He always does, and Satan deceived you all, yet again (Rev. 12:9), as he still does today.
4:13 So the war, that Lucifer started in heaven, with his slanderous lies, has continued, in a war between good (God) and evil (devil), here on Earth, ever since, killing billions of human bodies.
4:14 By believing the liar/devil, instead of God, Adam (man) and Eve (woman) were calling God a liar/devil, and the liar/devil God. God says: “Woe to those who call good (God), evil (devil) and evil, good”.
4:15 Thus began the confusion and chaos, in people’s minds, that has continued ever since - the conflict and not knowing what is good/truth, and what is evil/lies (only that they both exist) and the ongoing insanity.
4:16 INSANITY is:- choosing to believe that a lie is true, and that the truth is a lie.
4:17 The ONLY way to LIVE, is to STOP listening to the liar/devil, and believe ONLY GOD, as Abraham did, and thereby, became the “Friend of God” (2nd. Chronicles 20:7 & Isaiah 41:8)(James 2:23).
4:18 Jesus’ true teachings are designed to “Reverse the Fall of Man”, by being “Born again as your spirit (Being - John 3:5-6)” – your real self; keeping the COMMANDments; DOING God’s Will (learning directly from God how to be perfect - like God, in His eyes, not man’s eyes). Jesus (the WORD/TRUTH made flesh - JOHN 1:1-5, 14) is also known as the “Second Adam” - to reverse “The Fall”, caused by the first Adam believing Satan.
4:19 In the Garden of Eden there was no work, only learning: everything else was provided by God.
4:20 Woman (Eve) created work, by listening to Satan, and has been doing so ever since.
4:21 God’s first COMMANDment (it is the first, because it is the MOST important) states that YOU must love God, first, above and beyond EVERYTHING else, and love Him with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength (every ounce of it - Mark 12:30), and Him ONLY shall you serve (Matt. 4:10).
4:22 Adam started a tradition, that has survived for thousands of years, which is:- loving woman first, and God (good) second, thereby breaking the first and most important COMMANDment, upon which all the others hang.
4:23 This has caused, and still is causing, most of the trouble in the world, and God will allow women to continue punishing men, with heart-ache, etc., until man learns to put God (pure love) first, and woman (sex) second, or he runs out of time: whichever comes first.
4:24 Man must learn to DO God’s Will, and not woman’s will, which is often actually Satan’s will (he manipulates the souls, that are locked inside women’s bodies, to pull the souls locked-inside men’s bodies back to earth, and keep them here in prison), or the world will continue to accelerate in a backwards direction (Amos 4:1 & Isaiah 3:12-24).

Revelation 14:1-4
14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the Mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty [and] four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many "waters", and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
14:3 And they sung as it were a New Song (Isaiah 42:10) before the Throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that "Song" except the hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand, which were redeemed from the Earth.
14:4 These are they which were not corrupted by women; for they are pure. These are they which follow the Lamb wheresoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, [being] the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb (obeying God NOT women).
 
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From: The Way home or face The Fire,
Chapter 4: The first test and regression to following Satan.


4:6 The simple story; of Adam (man) and Eve (woman), and the trees of the “Knowledge of Good” (God) and the “Knowledge of Evil” (d/evil); seems never to have been understood, by anyone on Earth, and yet it is very straight-forward, and easy to understand.
4:7 God walked in the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve, and talked with them, teaching them to eat (digest) the “Knowledge of Good” (His truth), and warned them not to eat from the “Tree of the Knowledge of Evil” (Satan’s lies), or they would die.
4:8 They already had access, to the fruit of the “Tree of the Knowledge of Good”, and were eating it, and, if they ate from the “Tree of the Knowledge of Evil”, they would then know that there was good, and evil, and become confused. In their confusion, they would never find their way home, and would die.
4:9 If they obeyed God, there would be no confusion, or conflict, in their minds, and they would learn only good, from God - the Tree (or source) of the Knowledge of Good (TRUTH), quickly and easily, and live forever. As they learned from God’s teachings, they would become more and more like Him, until, once they became enough like Him (like Jesus’ example), they would be pardoned and then released from this planet (Earth), and allowed to go home, back to their real homes and families, out in the Universe, and LIVE forever.
4:10 God was telling them: “In the day that you listen to that liar again, instead of to Me - eat from the Tree (source) of the Knowledge of Evil (lies) - you will die (Gen. 2:17 & Deut. 30:15).”
4:11 The serpent (Satan the liar/devil) told Eve that God was lying to her, and that if she believed him, instead of God, she would be like God, which, of course, coming from the liar (devil), was a LIE.
4:12 Eve believed the liar (devil), instead of God, and convinced Adam to believe the liar too, repeating, for a second time, the “original sin” that had caused the war, and, from that day; EXACTLY as God (the TRUTH/WORD - John 1:1-5) told them; people have been dying ever since. So God told you the TRUTH, as He always does, and Satan deceived you all, yet again (Rev. 12:9), as he still does today.
4:13 So the war, that Lucifer started in heaven, with his slanderous lies, has continued, in a war between good (God) and evil (devil), here on Earth, ever since, killing billions of human bodies.
4:14 By believing the liar/devil, instead of God, Adam (man) and Eve (woman) were calling God a liar/devil, and the liar/devil God. God says: “Woe to those who call good (God), evil (devil) and evil, good”.
4:15 Thus began the confusion and chaos, in people’s minds, that has continued ever since - the conflict and not knowing what is good/truth, and what is evil/lies (only that they both exist) and the ongoing insanity.
4:16 INSANITY is:- choosing to believe that a lie is true, and that the truth is a lie.
4:17 The ONLY way to LIVE, is to STOP listening to the liar/devil, and believe ONLY GOD, as Abraham did, and thereby, became the “Friend of God” (2nd. Chronicles 20:7 & Isaiah 41:8)(James 2:23).
4:18 Jesus’ true teachings are designed to “Reverse the Fall of Man”, by being “Born again as your spirit (Being - John 3:5-6)” – your real self; keeping the COMMANDments; DOING God’s Will (learning directly from God how to be perfect - like God, in His eyes, not man’s eyes). Jesus (the WORD/TRUTH made flesh - JOHN 1:1-5, 14) is also known as the “Second Adam” - to reverse “The Fall”, caused by the first Adam believing Satan.
4:19 In the Garden of Eden there was no work, only learning: everything else was provided by God.
4:20 Woman (Eve) created work, by listening to Satan, and has been doing so ever since.
4:21 God’s first COMMANDment (it is the first, because it is the MOST important) states that YOU must love God, first, above and beyond EVERYTHING else, and love Him with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength (every ounce of it - Mark 12:30), and Him ONLY shall you serve (Matt. 4:10).
4:22 Adam started a tradition, that has survived for thousands of years, which is:- loving woman first, and God (good) second, thereby breaking the first and most important COMMANDment, upon which all the others hang.
4:23 This has caused, and still is causing, most of the trouble in the world, and God will allow women to continue punishing men, with heart-ache, etc., until man learns to put God (pure love) first, and woman (sex) second, or he runs out of time: whichever comes first.
4:24 Man must learn to DO God’s Will, and not woman’s will, which is often actually Satan’s will (he manipulates the souls, that are locked inside women’s bodies, to pull the souls locked-inside men’s bodies back to earth, and keep them here in prison), or the world will continue to accelerate in a backwards direction (Amos 4:1 & Isaiah 3:12-24).

Revelation 14:1-4
14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the Mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty [and] four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many "waters", and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
14:3 And they sung as it were a New Song (Isaiah 42:10) before the Throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that "Song" except the hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand, which were redeemed from the Earth.
14:4 These are they which were not corrupted by women; for they are pure. These are they which follow the Lamb wheresoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, [being] the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb (obeying God NOT women).
You really expect me to believe that this does not conflict with the Quran?
 

shankara

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From: The Way home or face The Fire,
Chapter 4: The first test and regression to following Satan.


4:6 The simple story; of Adam (man) and Eve (woman), and the trees of the “Knowledge of Good” (God) and the “Knowledge of Evil” (d/evil); seems never to have been understood, by anyone on Earth, and yet it is very straight-forward, and easy to understand.
4:7 God walked in the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve, and talked with them, teaching them to eat (digest) the “Knowledge of Good” (His truth), and warned them not to eat from the “Tree of the Knowledge of Evil” (Satan’s lies), or they would die.
4:8 They already had access, to the fruit of the “Tree of the Knowledge of Good”, and were eating it, and, if they ate from the “Tree of the Knowledge of Evil”, they would then know that there was good, and evil, and become confused. In their confusion, they would never find their way home, and would die.
4:9 If they obeyed God, there would be no confusion, or conflict, in their minds, and they would learn only good, from God - the Tree (or source) of the Knowledge of Good (TRUTH), quickly and easily, and live forever. As they learned from God’s teachings, they would become more and more like Him, until, once they became enough like Him (like Jesus’ example), they would be pardoned and then released from this planet (Earth), and allowed to go home, back to their real homes and families, out in the Universe, and LIVE forever.
4:10 God was telling them: “In the day that you listen to that liar again, instead of to Me - eat from the Tree (source) of the Knowledge of Evil (lies) - you will die (Gen. 2:17 & Deut. 30:15).”
4:11 The serpent (Satan the liar/devil) told Eve that God was lying to her, and that if she believed him, instead of God, she would be like God, which, of course, coming from the liar (devil), was a LIE.
4:12 Eve believed the liar (devil), instead of God, and convinced Adam to believe the liar too, repeating, for a second time, the “original sin” that had caused the war, and, from that day; EXACTLY as God (the TRUTH/WORD - John 1:1-5) told them; people have been dying ever since. So God told you the TRUTH, as He always does, and Satan deceived you all, yet again (Rev. 12:9), as he still does today.
4:13 So the war, that Lucifer started in heaven, with his slanderous lies, has continued, in a war between good (God) and evil (devil), here on Earth, ever since, killing billions of human bodies.
4:14 By believing the liar/devil, instead of God, Adam (man) and Eve (woman) were calling God a liar/devil, and the liar/devil God. God says: “Woe to those who call good (God), evil (devil) and evil, good”.
4:15 Thus began the confusion and chaos, in people’s minds, that has continued ever since - the conflict and not knowing what is good/truth, and what is evil/lies (only that they both exist) and the ongoing insanity.
4:16 INSANITY is:- choosing to believe that a lie is true, and that the truth is a lie.
4:17 The ONLY way to LIVE, is to STOP listening to the liar/devil, and believe ONLY GOD, as Abraham did, and thereby, became the “Friend of God” (2nd. Chronicles 20:7 & Isaiah 41:8)(James 2:23).
4:18 Jesus’ true teachings are designed to “Reverse the Fall of Man”, by being “Born again as your spirit (Being - John 3:5-6)” – your real self; keeping the COMMANDments; DOING God’s Will (learning directly from God how to be perfect - like God, in His eyes, not man’s eyes). Jesus (the WORD/TRUTH made flesh - JOHN 1:1-5, 14) is also known as the “Second Adam” - to reverse “The Fall”, caused by the first Adam believing Satan.
4:19 In the Garden of Eden there was no work, only learning: everything else was provided by God.
4:20 Woman (Eve) created work, by listening to Satan, and has been doing so ever since.
4:21 God’s first COMMANDment (it is the first, because it is the MOST important) states that YOU must love God, first, above and beyond EVERYTHING else, and love Him with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength (every ounce of it - Mark 12:30), and Him ONLY shall you serve (Matt. 4:10).
4:22 Adam started a tradition, that has survived for thousands of years, which is:- loving woman first, and God (good) second, thereby breaking the first and most important COMMANDment, upon which all the others hang.
4:23 This has caused, and still is causing, most of the trouble in the world, and God will allow women to continue punishing men, with heart-ache, etc., until man learns to put God (pure love) first, and woman (sex) second, or he runs out of time: whichever comes first.
4:24 Man must learn to DO God’s Will, and not woman’s will, which is often actually Satan’s will (he manipulates the souls, that are locked inside women’s bodies, to pull the souls locked-inside men’s bodies back to earth, and keep them here in prison), or the world will continue to accelerate in a backwards direction (Amos 4:1 & Isaiah 3:12-24).

Revelation 14:1-4
14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the Mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty [and] four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many "waters", and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
14:3 And they sung as it were a New Song (Isaiah 42:10) before the Throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that "Song" except the hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand, which were redeemed from the Earth.
14:4 These are they which were not corrupted by women; for they are pure. These are they which follow the Lamb wheresoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, [being] the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb (obeying God NOT women).
I still prefer the story about the heroic serpent taking on the curse of a demiurge in order to liberate humanity from a false paradise where "ignorance is bliss"... and the woman who had the curiosity for knowledge to eat from the tree...
 

A Freeman

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You really expect me to believe that this does not conflict with the Quran?
It doesn't, but there is no personal expectation that you'll see it that way.

If there's something specific that you feel is in conflict, please feel free to share it, so it can be discussed.
 
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It doesn't, but there is no personal expectation that you'll see it that way.

If there's something specific that you feel is in conflict, please feel free to share it, so it can be discussed.
-- Man was intended to dwell on Earth, before Adam and Eve ate from the forbidden tree. So being in this state of bliss and innocence was always meant to be temporary. "And when thy Lord said unto the angels: Lo! I am about to place a viceroy in the earth, they said: wilt Thou place therein one who will do harm therein and will shed blood, while we, we hymn Thy praise and sanctify Thee? He said: Surely I know that which ye know not." (Quran, 2:30)
-- God indicates that the unique thing about man, out of all His other creation, is that he can learn. "He taught Adam all the names of everything." (Quran, 2:31) Although man was created weak and subject to desires, he can learn from his mistakes.
-- "O Adam! Dwell you and your wife in the Paradise and eat both of you freely with pleasure and delight of things therein as wherever you will, but come not near this tree or you both will be of the dhalimin (wrong doers)." (Quran, 2:35)
-- “So he (Satan) misled them with deception.” (Quran, 7:22)
-- God knew, before Adam and Eve ate of the forbidden tree, that they would commit this sin. Their sin was not some kind of Pandora's box that brought evil and sin into the world.
-- Adam and Eve both bore equal responsibility for their eating of the tree. Eve did not tempt Adam; she was not the weaker of the two.
-- Their doing so was a mistake. They had not hitherto experienced the cunning deceptions of Satan. The sin, and the ensuing consequence served as an important lesson to all mankind about Satan's tricks and illusions, and about the consequences of sin. Satan was firmly established in this way as a clear enemy to humankind. "Children of Adam, did We not command you not to worship satan. He was your sworn enemy." (Quran 36:60)
-- The descendants of Adam do not bear the sin of their forefather. They are not punished for it. Every human is born free of sin. "No bearer of burdens shall bear another's burden." (Quran, 35:18)
-- God told Adam and Eve that heaven was no longer to be their abode. Their home was now Earth, for a fixed time. “Get you down (upon the earth), all of you together, from Paradise, some of you are an enemy to some others. Then, if there comes to you guidance from Me, whoever follows My Guidance shall neither go astray, nor fall into distress and misery.” (Quran, 20:123)
-- Adam and Eve repented sincerely after their sin. God forgave them in His infinite mercy. The prayer that God gave them with which they could ask for forgiveness: “Our Lord! We have wronged ourselves. If you forgive us not and bestow not upon us Your Mercy, we shall certainly be of the losers.” (Quran, 7:23) We may also use the same prayer to ask God to forgive us.
-- Adam and Eve's descent to Earth was not one of humiliation or degradation.
-- Earth is not our true home. We are here only for a fixed time. We will return to God in the hereafter, and go either to heaven or to hell. Heaven is for those who follow the guidance that God sends to Earth, and submit to God humbly.
-- "O Children of Adam! Let not Satan seduce you as he caused your (first) parents to go forth from the Garden and tore off from them their robe (of innocence) that be might manifest their shame to them. Lo! he seeth you, he and his tribe, from whence ye see him not. Lo! We have made the devils protecting friends for those who believe not." (Quran, 7:27)
-- The battle between good and evil continues on Earth. Each man is responsible for his own actions.
 

A Freeman

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Before reading what has been shared below, it is imperative that you clear your mind of any and all of your preconceived notions that the Bible and Koran contradict each other.

Father (God) has told us, in His Koran, that we MUST read both The Law (Old Covenant) and the Gospel (New Covenant) and to NOT believe Satan/Iblis, who deceives people into believing ANY of God's Word has been corrupted or will never reach them.

-- Man was intended to dwell on Earth, before Adam and Eve ate from the forbidden tree.
Agreed. Father is The Best Planner, and prepared the Earth for the arrival of humans (man, also referred to as “Adam” since he was the first human Father created), which were very obviously placed here AFTER all of the plant and animal life (and everything else) was already in place and had developed.

Genesis 1:27-28
1:27 So God created man in His [Own] image, in the Image of God created He him; male and female created He them.
1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and REplenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

So being in this state of bliss and innocence was always meant to be temporary.
Agreed. Had we OBEYED Father and NOT allowed the humans we live inside of to eat from the forbidden tree, we would all have been learning ONLY Good from Him and we would have all gone home already long ago. Instead, we have continued in the tradition of Adam and Eve, believing we are only human, and have suffered in confusion for thousands of years, not knowing how to properly differentiate between good and evil.

As long as someone believes they are only human, they will serve the creature they live inside of, rather than learning to control it, so it can be made to do Father's Will.

Bringing the body under subjection is really no different than breaking a horse. Before it is broken, a horse will not allow its would-be rider to mount, much less obey the commands of its rider. Once the will of the horse is broken, it will literally continue to its death if directed by its rider to do so.

It is therefore imperative to bring the body under subjection, so it can be made to do Father's Will, which begins with His Perfect Law, found ONLY in the first five Books of the Bible, namely Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. There simply is no other way to break the cycle that began with Adam and Eve, who believed Satan's LIE that they were “only human”, hence the reason why they suddenly believed they were naked.

As long as Adam and Eve KNEW they were spiritual-Beings, in the Garden state of bliss and innocence, learning directly from Father how to be good, they understood they were clothed with the human bodies they had been given.

Genesis 2:25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

After being deceived, they lost their spiritual sight, and saw themselves – through their human eyes – as being naked.

Genesis 3:1-13
3:1 Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the "I AM" God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which [is] in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it (the tree of the knowledge of evil - the devil), lest ye die.
3:4 And the serpent (devil - liar) said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree [was] good for food, and that it [was] pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make [one] wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they [were] naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
3:8 And they heard the voice of the "I AM" God [the tree of the Knowledge of Good-God] walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the Presence of the "I AM" God amongst the trees of the garden.
3:9 And the "I AM" God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where [art] thou?
3:10 And he said, I heard Thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I [was] naked; and I hid myself.
3:11 And He said, Who told thee that thou [wast] naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I COMMANDED thee that thou shouldest NOT eat?
3:12 And the man said, The woman whom Thou gavest [to be] with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
3:13 And the "I AM" God said unto the woman, What [is] this [that] thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

"And when thy Lord said unto the angels: Lo! I am about to place a viceroy in the earth, they said: wilt Thou place therein one who will do harm therein and will shed blood, while we, we hymn Thy praise and sanctify Thee? He said: Surely I know that which ye know not." (Quran, 2:30)
A “viceroy” is a representative/ambassador sent by the monarch, in this case The King Ruler of the Universe (Father/Allah). And that's exactly what Adam and his descendants were meant to be.

Please note well this verse is CONFIRMING the placement of the (fallen) angels who fought in the war against Father and Michael into human bodies for rehabilitation purposes (“teach him to be like Us”). It even includes Father reassuring the two-thirds of the angels (spirit-Beings/jinns) of heaven that fought with Him and Michael against Lucifer/Satan/Iblis and his angels (the other third), that He knows best.

-- God indicates that the unique thing about man, out of all His other creation, is that he can learn. "He taught Adam all the names of everything." (Quran, 2:31)
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in Our image, and teach him to be like Us: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Although man was created weak and subject to desires, he can learn from his mistakes.

-- "O Adam! Dwell you and your wife in the Paradise and eat both of you freely with pleasure and delight of things therein as wherever you will, but come not near this tree or you both will be of the dhalimin (wrong doers)." (Quran, 2:35)
Genesis 2:15-18
2:15 And the "I AM" God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
2:16 And the "I AM" God COMMANDED the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good (Truth) and evil (lies), thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die (in confusion).
2:18 And the "I AM" God said, [It is] not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

-- “So he (Satan) misled them with deception.” (Quran, 7:22)
Which was an executive summary of what we're given in Genesis 3:16-19.

-- God knew, before Adam and Eve ate of the forbidden tree, that they would commit this sin.
Of course. Father knows everything (Matt. 24:36). There is no other God.

Their sin was not some kind of Pandora's box that brought evil and sin into the world.
Had Adam and Eve obeyed Father, their children would have benefited from their example. Adam and Eve exercised their free-will, and chose evil/lies instead of good/truth, being deceived and therefore confused between the two. And, unfortunately, with the exception of Enoch/Idris, the entire world has followed in their footsteps.

-- Adam and Eve both bore equal responsibility for their eating of the tree. Eve did not tempt Adam; she was not the weaker of the two.
You have no basis in Scripture (Reality – Sura 22:6), for making that statement.

This is exactly why we've been COMMANDED in the Bible and the Koran (Quran) to read and become well-acquainted with The Law, which will NEVER be destroyed.

Sura 6:154-157
6:154. Moreover, We gave Moses The Book (The Torah), COMPLETING (Our favour) to those who would do right, and explaining ALL things IN DETAIL,- and a GUIDE and a MERCY, that they might believe in the meeting with their Lord.
6:155. And this (Torah) is a Book which We have revealed as a BLESSING: so follow it and be righteous, that YE may receive mercy (Sura 32:23):
6:156. LEST YE SHOULD SAY: "THE BOOK (THE TORAH) WAS SENT DOWN TO TWO PEOPLES BEFORE US, AND FOR OUR PART, WE REMAINED UNACQUAINTED WITH ALL THAT THEY LEARNED BY CAREFUL STUDY:"
6:157. Or lest YE should say: "If The Book (The Torah) had only been sent down to US, we should have FOLLOWED its guidance BETTER than they (Sura 32:23)." Now then hath come unto YOU a clear (Sign) from your Lord,- and a GUIDE and a MERCY: then who could do MORE WRONG than one who rejecteth "I AM"'s Signs (and The Torah - Bible), and turneth away therefrom? In good time shall We requite those who turn away from Our Signs, with a dreadful penalty, for their turning away.

Why do you think Father addresses Adam and his wife, if they are “equals”?

Why do you think the woman punished with the pain and suffering of child-bearing, if both she and Adam were “equally responsible”? Why do you think the protrusion in a man's neck is called the “Adam's apple”?

Why are the physical bodies of women smaller, slower and weaker than those of men if they are “equals”? Do you believe the spiritual doesn't manifest itself in the physical, so that Father can TEACH us spiritual lessons using physical examples?

-- Their doing so was a mistake. They had not hitherto experienced the cunning deceptions of Satan.
While in human form (incarnated inside of a human body/“Adam”). All of us experienced his deceptions though previously, in our free-state as spiritual-Beings/angels, which is what caused the war (Rev. 12:3-4, 7-9).

The sin, and the ensuing consequence served as an important lesson to all mankind about Satan's tricks and illusions, and about the consequences of sin.
Agreed (Ezek. 18:4, 20, Rom. 6:23).

Satan was firmly established in this way as a clear enemy to humankind. "Children of Adam, did We not command you not to worship satan. He was your sworn enemy." (Quran 36:60)
And yet everyone on Earth grossly underestimates his power and influence, even within their own minds.

-- The descendants of Adam do not bear the sin of their forefather. They are not punished for it. Every human is born free of sin. "No bearer of burdens shall bear another's burden." (Quran, 35:18)
Exactly as it says in The Law:

Deuteronomy 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

And elsewhere in the Old Covenant:

Ezekiel 18:19-20
18:19 Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the inequity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, [and] hath kept all My Statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely Live.
18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall DIE. The son shall not bear the inequity of the father, neither shall the father bear the inequity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

-- God told Adam and Eve that heaven was no longer to be their abode. Their home was now Earth, for a fixed time. “Get you down (upon the earth), all of you together, from Paradise, some of you are an enemy to some others. Then, if there comes to you guidance from Me, whoever follows My Guidance shall neither go astray, nor fall into distress and misery.” (Quran, 20:123)
While the spirit-Beings (angels) that fell from Grace and fought with Satan against Father and Michael were cast from heaven to the Earth, the Garden of Eden was here on Earth.

Sura 20:121-123
20:121. In the result, they both ate of the tree (of the knowledge of evil - lies - Satan's knowledge which, being lies, is not knowledge at all, just like the "so-called" knowledge that is destroying the world), and so their nakedness appeared to them: they began to sew together, for their covering, leaves from The Garden: thus did Adam disobey his Lord, and allow himself to be seduced (by Satan because of listening to Satan speaking through woman, instead of listening only to God).
20:122. But his Lord chose him (by His Grace): He turned to him, and gave him Guidance.
20:123. He said: "Get ye down, both of you,- ALL together, from The Garden, with enmity one to another: but if, as is sure, there comes to you Guidance from Me, whosoever follows My Guidance, will not lose his way, nor fall into misery (John 11:25).

-- Adam and Eve repented sincerely after their sin. God forgave them in His infinite mercy. The prayer that God gave them with which they could ask for forgiveness: “Our Lord! We have wronged ourselves. If you forgive us not and bestow not upon us Your Mercy, we shall certainly be of the losers.” (Quran, 7:23) We may also use the same prayer to ask God to forgive us.

-- Adam and Eve's descent to Earth was not one of humiliation or degradation.
Yes, it was. This will be covered in a separate post.

-- Earth is not our true home. We are here only for a fixed time.
Agreed.

We will return to God in the hereafter, and go either to heaven or to hell. Heaven is for those who follow the guidance that God sends to Earth, and submit to God humbly.
Did you mean “hell-fire” (The Fire) please when you said: “...either to heaven or to hell”?

-- "O Children of Adam! Let not Satan seduce you as he caused your (first) parents to go forth from the Garden and tore off from them their robe (of innocence) that be might manifest their shame to them. Lo! he seeth you, he and his tribe, from whence ye see him not. Lo! We have made the devils protecting friends for those who believe not." (Quran, 7:27)

-- The battle between good and evil continues on Earth. Each man is responsible for his own actions.
Agreed. It's the same battle that began over 6000 years ago, in heaven (Rev. 12:7-9).
 

A Freeman

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Messages
6,725
Who Lucifer REALLY is and why YOU should care
Along with the REAL reason for human life on planet Earth

Contrary to Strong's Concordance, the late 19th century periodical published by Moses Harman, and the Zionist-controlled Wikipedia and dictionaries—which are all WRONG—the name “Lucifer” does NOT mean “light bearer”.

Lucifer was an inhabitant of the Morning Star, which is a REAL planet. The Morning Star is home to Prince Michael, Gabriel, Uriel, Raphael, Raguel, Sarakiel (the Archangels), as well as millions of other immortal “Beings of Light”.

Thousands of years ago, Lucifer organized and led a coup attempt to seize control of the Universe. He managed to recruit a third of the inhabitants of the Morning Star (angels) into his army, using LIES to CONvince them.

Revelation 12:3-4
12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
12:4 And his tale (of lies - John 8:35) drew the third part of the "Stars" (ch. 9:1) of heaven (into his army), and did (cause them to be) cast to the Earth (for their treason against God): and the dragon stood before the woman (Israel) which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born (Christ - second coming).

Lucifer's lies were unprecedented, which is why they took the weaker-willed angels by surprise. No one on the Morning Star had EVER lied before Lucifer invented it.

John 8:35-36 (8:44-45 KJV)
8:35 Ye are of [YOUR] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the Truth, because there is no Truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father (inventor) of it.
8:36 And because I tell [you] the Truth, ye believe me not.

Lucifer's failed attempt to overthrow and murder God, so he could take God's Place as The King Ruler of the Universe, is a well-documented FACT.

Isaiah 14:12-17 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the Morning (Star)! [How] art thou cut down to the earth, which didst weaken the nations!
14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the North:
14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like (take the Place of) The Most High.
14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, [and] consider thee, [saying, Is] this the person that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
14:17 [That] made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; [that] opened not the house of his prisoners?

The title Satan is Hebrew and means “the Opposer” (God's adversary). When Lucifer became darkness and evil, he became the d/evil-LIAR, opposing everything that is truthful and good (Matt. 19:17). The great red dragon, devil and Satan are therefore descriptive terms Lucifer earned as a result of his criminal actions. A dragon uses its tail/tale to draw its victims into its clutches, and everything that comes out of its mouth burns its victims. A perfect description of lying Lucifer/Satan/the devil. He is also referred to as being a serpent, because everything that comes out of his mouth is poison.


The War in Heaven

Lucifer's coup attempt had to be put down by Prince Michael, known here on Earth by many names, including The Messiah/Christ, (the Anointed One/Heir to the Throne – Dan. 10:21, Dan.12:1-4, Col. 1:14-15, Rev. 5:1-9), and His Army, the heavenly host. When the rebellion against God failed and the war ended 6000 years ago, Lucifer and his followers were banished from heaven to the Earth for their TREASON against God.

Revelation 12:7-9
12:7 And there WAS war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon (Lucifer); and the dragon fought and his angels,
12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out to the earth, and his angels (you - Luke 9:55) were cast out with him (Matthew 25:41).

Luke 9:55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what kind of spirit ye are of (Rev. 12:7-9; Matt. 8:22).

Matthew 7:11 If ye then, BEING EVIL, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask Him?

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into Everlasting Fire, prepared for the devil and his angels (YOU that do not DO God's Will):


The Prison-Reform School

Not executing Lucifer and his angels, outright, created quite a difficult situation. After making a study of the situation, God and the elders of the Morning Star decided to create a prison reform-school, far enough away, where, for the chosen period, they could safely try to teach Lucifer and his angels to be good, whereupon they could come home (Deut. 28:1, Rev. 2:28, Sura 29:6).

Lucifer and his angels (those who fought with Lucifer against God) had to be taught to keep the twelve laws of heaven; THE TWELVE COMMANDMENTS; ten of which were given to Moses on Mount Sinai (Exodus 20:1-17), and the eleventh and twelfth, which were given later-on, by Jesus; one of which God demonstrated and still demonstrates, i.e. “love your enemies into being good” (Matt. 5:43-48).

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in Our image, and teach him to be like Us (i.e. teach him to be good instead of sinful/evil): and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Every one of the convicts accepted God's most gracious and merciful offer to be rehabilitated inside human-animal bodies, except for Lucifer/Iblis, who arrogantly refused to submit to human limitations. Lucifer/Satan/Iblis then asked God for a stay of execution until The Day (Mal. 4). God granted Lucifer's request, to use him to test the rest of us to determine whether we were learning our lessons, or even paying attention.

That is why Lucifer/Satan/Iblis (the devil, serpent, red-dragon) is still so powerful, and why we NEED God's guidance and help to “slay the dragon”, i.e. learn to stop listening to and getting poisoned and burned by Satan's seductive voice and smooth-sounding LIES.


The Testing Process

Lucifer/Satan/Iblis regards the rest of us as traitors to himself for our decision to submit to the re-education program, and has vowed to do everything within his power and to attack us from every conceivable angle (Eph. 6:12-18), to keep us from learning what we NEED to learn, and doing what we need to DO, to be able to go home. That is why he is now our worst enemy.

Sura 7:11-18
7:11. It is We Who created you and gave you shape; then We bade the (fallen) angels submit to Adam (human limitations), and you submitted (Luke 9:55); not so Iblis (Lucifer); he refused to be of you who submitted.
7:12. ("I AM") said: "What prevented thee from submitting when I commanded thee?" He said: "I am better than he: Thou didst create me from fire (spirit-energy), and him from clay (the dust of the earth)."
7:13. ("I AM") said: "Get thee down from this: it is not for thee to be arrogant here: get out, for thou art of the meanest (of creatures)."
7:14. He said: "Give me respite till the Day they are raised up."
7:15. ("I AM") said: "Be thou among those who have respite."
7:16. He said: "Because thou hast thrown me out of The Way, lo! I will lie in wait for them on Thy Straight Way:
7:17. "Then will I assault them from before them and behind them, from their right and their left: nor wilt Thou find, in MOST of them, gratitude (for Thy mercies)."
7:18. ("I AM") said: "Get out from this, disgraced and expelled. If any of them follow thee,- Hell-Fire will I fill with you all (Matt. 8:22).

Sura 15:26-43
15:26. We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape;
15:27. And the Being (of light) race, We had created before, from the fire of a scorching wind.
15:28. Behold! Thy Lord said to the (fallen) angels: "I am about to create man, from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape;
15:29. When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My spirit, fall ye down into submission inside him."
15:30. So the (fallen) angels submitted themselves (Luke 9:55), all of them together:
15:31. Except Iblis (Lucifer): he refused to be among those who submitted themselves (to human limitations).
15:32. ("I AM") said: "O Lucifer! What is your reason for not being among those who submitted themselves?"
15:33. (Lucifer) said: "I am not one to submit myself to man, whom Thou didst create from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape."
15:34. ("I AM") said: "Then get thee out from here; for thou art rejected, accursed.
15:35. And the Curse shall be on thee till The Day of Judgment."
15:36. (Lucifer) said: "O my Lord! give me then respite till The Day the (dead) are raised."
15:37. ("I AM") said: "Respite is granted thee-
15:38. Till the Day of the Time appointed."
15:39. (Lucifer) said: "O my Lord! Because Thou hast put me in the wrong, I will make (wrong) fair-seeming to them on the Earth, and I will put them ALL in the wrong (Isaiah 5:20-21),-
15:40. Except Thy servants among them, sincere and purified (by Thy Grace)."
15:41. ("I AM") said: "This (way of My sincere servants) is indeed The Way that leads straight to Me (John 11:25).
15:42. For over My servants no authority shalt thou have, except such as put themselves in the wrong by following thee."
15:43. And verily, Hell-Fire is the promised abode for them all (Matt. 8:22)!

Sura 17:61-65
17:61. Behold! We said to the (fallen) angels: "Submit unto Adam (man)": you submitted (Luke 9:55) except Iblis (Lucifer): he said, "Shall I submit to one whom Thou didst create from clay?"
17:62. He said: "Seest Thou? This is the one (Adamic man) whom Thou hast honoured above me! If Thou wilt but respite me to the Day of Judgment, I will surely bring his descendants under my sway - all but a few (Rev. 14:3)!"
17:63. ("I AM") said: "Go thy way if any of them follow thee, verily Hell-Fire will be the recompense of you (all)- an ample recompense (Matt. 8:22).
17:64. "Lead to destruction those whom thou canst among them, with thy (seductive) voice; make assaults on them with thy cavalry and thy infantry; mutually share with them wealth and children; and make promises to them." But Satan promises you nothing but deceit.
17:65. "As for My servants, no authority shalt thou have over them:" enough is thy Lord for a Disposer of affairs (John 11:25).

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the Life: he that believeth me (NOT Lucifer's lies), though he were "Dead" (under God's death sentence for treason - Rev. 12:7-9; Matt. 8:22; Luke 9:55), yet shall he Live (be pardoned):

Sura 20:114
20:114. High above all is "I AM", The King, The Truth! Be not in haste with the Koran before its revelation to thee is completed; but say, "O my Lord! Advance me in Knowledge."
20:115. We had already, beforehand, taken the covenant of Adam, but he forgot: and We found on his part no strong determination.
20:116. When We said to the (fallen) angels (Beings), "Submit yourselves to Adam (humans)", you submitted yourselves (Luke 9:55), but not Iblis (Lucifer): he refused.
20:117. Then We said: "O Adam! Verily, this is an enemy to thee and thy wife: so let him not get you both out of The Garden, so that thou art landed in misery.
20:118. There is therein (enough provision) for thee not to go hungry nor to go naked,
20:119. Nor to suffer from thirst, nor from the Sun's heat."
20:120. But Satan whispered evil to him: he said, "O Adam! Shall I lead thee to the Tree of Eternity and to a kingdom that never decays?"
20:121. In the result, they both ate of the tree (of the knowledge of evil - lies - Satan's knowledge which, being lies, is not knowledge at all, just like the "so-called" knowledge that is destroying the world), and so their nakedness appeared to them: they began to sew together, for their covering, leaves from The Garden: thus did Adam disobey his Lord, and allow himself to be seduced (by Satan because of listening to Satan speaking through woman, instead of listening only to God).
20:122. But his Lord chose him (by His Grace): He turned to him, and gave him Guidance.
20:123. He said: "Get ye down, both of you,- ALL together, from The Garden, with enmity one to another: but if, as is sure, there comes to you Guidance from Me, whosoever follows My Guidance, will not lose his way, nor fall into misery (John 11:25).
20:124. But whosoever turns away from My Message (Genesis 3:17), verily for him is a life narrowed down, and We shall raise him up "blind" on the Day of Judgment."

We are here, inside of these human-animal bodies (our personal prison cells), in this lunatic asylum prison-planet reform school for the criminally insane, because we listened to and joined Lucifer/Satan/Iblis in arms against God and His Anointed One (Michael). And even after being given the opportunity to rehabilitate in the Garden of Eden, we again chose to listen to and obey Satan, rather than God.

Logically, the only way to end this insanity, is to STOP repeating the same mistakes made in the Garden of Eden, in listening to Satan/Iblis and all of his spiritually blind priests, pastors, rabbis and imams of every organized religion, and start keeping The Law that God gave us, exactly as it says in the Old Covenant, New Covenant and the Koran (Quran).

Anyone foolish enough to believe otherwise will burn on the Last Day, exactly as we've been warned for the past 6000 years.
 

A Freeman

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There is no reference in the Holy Koran to the city of Mecca by name nor by implication. ALL references, in the Holy Koran, to the City of Peace refer to Jerusalem NOT to Mecca. The word Mecca does not mean the City of Peace, the word Jerusalem DOES mean City of Peace in Hebrew. . .

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
THE HOUSE OF GOD - KABA in Arabic


Sura 2:125 "Prostrate themselves therein" - the Temple site in Jerusalem (on Mt. Moriah - 2 Chronicles 3 v 1 - built by Solomon bin David - Sura 27:16).

People can NOT prostrate themselves inside the Kaba in Mecca. It is a black rock not a Temple or House of God and a rock is solid. It is impossible to prostrate oneself inside it. So this statement can NOT possibly refer to Mecca. It refers to Mt. Moriah in Jeru-salem (the City of Peace).

Sura 2:126 And remember Abraham (who was a Hebrew - NOT Jewish) said: "My Lord, make this a City (Jeru) of Peace (salem) - Jeru-salem means "City of Peace".

Sura 2:125 The House (of God) is the Station of Abraham where he offered Isaac in sacrifice (Mt. Moriah - Genesis 22 v 2) in the "City of Peace" - "Jerusalem".

Sura 2:144 Turn then thy face in the direction of the Holy Temple: wherever ye are turn your faces in that direction. The people of the Book (Bible) know well that that is the Truth from their Lord. Of course they know to turn their faces to Mt. Moriah in Jerusalem because the Book - Bible tells them to do so - that is why all churches face Jerusalem - read Genesis 22:2-3, 14; 2 Chronicles 3:1 & 6:20-21; 1 kings 6:1-2, 11-14 and 1 kings 8:29-30 and Isaiah 56:7.

There is no reference in the Holy Koran to the city of Mecca by name nor by implication. ALL references, in the Holy Koran, to the City of Peace refer to Jerusalem NOT to Mecca. The word Mecca does not mean the City of Peace, the word Jerusalem DOES mean City of Peace in Hebrew.

Ishmael's mother, who was called Hagar, was an Egyptian and was the hand-maiden (servant) of Sarah who was Abraham's first and legitimate wife.

The well of Beer-lahai-roi, where Hagar went whilst pregnant with Ishmael when she ran away the first time, is between Kadesh-Barnea and Bered (South of Beersheba) on the route to Egypt, her home-land.

Sarah sent Hagar away with Ishmael and she naturally went towards Egypt her home-land NOT to Mecca. They went to Beer-sheba in Paran on the edge of the Negev desert, as is stated by God in the Book of Genesis that God gave to Moses.

On both occasions when Hagar left Abraham she went towards Egypt her home-land, which is quite a natural thing to do.

Hagar found Ishmael an Egyptian wife. They did not go to or live in Mecca. Mecca is more than 1000 miles from Mt. Moriah across desert and much too far away for Ishmael to hear of Abraham's death and be able to return in time to assist Isaac with Abraham's burial (Genesis 25:9).

The story about Mecca was made up by the Meccans to advertise and promote Mecca (in their advertising brochure - the Hadith) and is a complete fabrication. It has NOTHING to do with the Holy Koran. The Hadith contradicts God's Koran.

If people read the Bible they would know that they have to make the Pilgrimage (Haj) to Jerusalem not to Mecca and the Meccans would lose all the money they make from the Pilgrims.

The Meccans then had to discredit the Bible, to stop people from reading it and finding out the Truth, so they (Khadijah's cousin Waraquah according to the Vatican's archives) changed the name Isaac for the name Ishmael in Sura 2:125 and 2:127 and claim that the king James Bible is not the True Bible and that the True Bible no longer exists, so no-one can read it. All of which is a LIE and evil Meccan propaganda. Now people read the Hadith and its version of the Koran, instead of reading the Koran itself.

The Hadith has made it impossible for Moslems to understand the Koran's true meaning and to read the Bible and fulfill God's Covenant as God commands them to do in the Koran (Suras 16:91 and 5:8) and that is exactly what the Meccans wanted.

Mecca was an evil place when Mohammed Mustafa was born and the Meccans drove him and the TRUE KORAN out because it was about Jerusalem and would have ruined their pilgrimage-business to their black rock and idol-worship.

After Mohammed's death the Meccans changed the Koran and betrayed him and God.

Mecca has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with Abraham; Ishmael; Isaac or God.

God tells people repeatedly in the Koran to read the Bible e.g. Sura 6:154-157). The Meccans then claim that the Almighty God has allowed the Book, that He commands people to read, to have been lost forever. That is not logical and is an insult to God.

Of course the TrueBible still exists as confirmed by God Himself in His Holy Koran (Sura 32:23) and the most accurate translation of The Bible in print is still the Authorised king James Bible in the old English, as confirmed by the "Dead Sea Scroll" of the Book of Isaiah (referred to in Sura 52:2-3) which in no way differs from the Book of Isaiah in the king James Bible.

Therefore the moslems are calling God a liar, which is a satanic thing to do. Satan called God a liar in the Garden of Eden and God condemned Adam and Eve for believing Satan's lies. These satanic lies are now being continued by the moslems when they contradict God by saying that the True Bible no longer exists, after God has told us in His Holy Koran - Sura 32:23 that:-

"We did indeed aforetime give the Book (Torah) to Moses: be then NOT IN DOUBT of its (The Torah) reaching (THEE - the readers of this Koran - moslems): and We made it a Guide to the Children of Israel."


Source: THE HOUSE OF GOD - KABA in Arabic
 
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