What does the Koran actually say about prayer?

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If you would sit down shut up and pay attention... you would see it when shown.

But you're too preoccupied with your own prejudices to sit down shut up and pay attention.

the text is self explanatory
it's talking about the king of babylon..not satan.
 






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If there's no Al-Qaeda, who did 9/11, Mary Poppins?.. :p
As for "the First Caliph of Islam", I've never heard of him, is his quote in the Koran?
are you winding me up? you're fully aware of the 'conspiracy theories' ..im not even going there.
As for the first caliph of islam and you actually asking 'is HIS QUOTE IN THE QURAN?'
again are you winding me up?
 






Tidal

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Before the creation of the world... it was decided that the Son of God would pay the price for our sins.
So we can repent and be forgiven...
God blinded the jews because of their sins so they should kill His Son...and God went medieval on the jews as everybody knows.

The jews carry on badmouthing jesus today, so I don't see any repentance there..;)
Same with career criminals and corrupt politicians etc, they carry on being bozos without repentance so they'll be going up the spout too.
Heaven is for CHRISTIANS ONLY, otherwise it'd be a case of "oops there goes the neighbourhood" if they started letting others in..:)
 






Tidal

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are you winding me up? you're fully aware of the 'conspiracy theories' ..im not even going there.
As for the first caliph of islam and you actually asking 'is HIS QUOTE IN THE QURAN?'
again are you winding me up?

But mate, Al-Qaeda ADMITTED they did 9/11.. :p
As for that Caliph bloke, I've never heard of him, does he run a pizza parlour in Baghdad?
 






TokiEl

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the text is self explanatory
it's talking about the king of babylon..not satan.
Isaiah the prophet proclaimed destruction on several cities... also Damascus which is sort of still a city. And in the rant against the king of Babylon there is hidden in plain sight the identity of the god of this world.

If you don't see it even when shown... then i can't help you.
 






TokiEl

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The jews carry on badmouthing jesus today, so I don't see any repentance there..;)
Same with career criminals and corrupt politicians etc, they carry on being bozos without repentance so they'll be going up the spout too.
Heaven is for CHRISTIANS ONLY, otherwise it'd be a case of "oops there goes the neighbourhood" if they started letting others in..:)
There are more and more messianic jews every week... and in God's writ they will all repent at the appointed time.
 






neptunejoo

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Always. Always. And always. In every religion thread, all I see is people throw quotes of Holy Books. Believe what you believe, what's the point of this dispute?

We know the real enemy is, at least some sense of it. The Antichrist, Dajjal, Freemanson, Zionists whoever.

Their classic tactic is creating conflict between humankind, with differences.

From argument above both Bible and Quran state that we need establish prayer. Then do that, with our ways.

Why must you see who's wrong and right when we can only know it for sure in the day of Judgement?

If Christians believe that Jesus will save them, then be it.

Maybe Muslims just don't want be saved by him.

Just don't spread conflict and negativity. They thrive on that.
 






Tidal

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There are more and more messianic jews every week... and in God's writ they will all repent at the appointed time.

Haha Satan is saying to the suckers "Don't worry, you'll get a chance to repent and avoid hell, trust me, would I lie?"
Fact is, all nonchristians must repent and become christians BEFORE they die or they'll all go up the spout.
 






Tidal

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In every religion thread, all I see is people throw quotes of Holy Books..
Why must you see who's wrong and right when we can only know it for sure in the day of Judgement?

Consider this- all the "holy men" of other religions are corpses in graves somewhere, but Jesus is not. Spot the difference?..:)
As for judgement day, if nonchristians think they'll be able to turn up at the pearlies and gatecrash their way in, it ain't never gonna happen..:)-

 






TokiEl

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Haha Satan is saying to the suckers "Don't worry, you'll get a chance to repent and avoid hell, trust me, would I lie?"
Fact is, all nonchristians must repent and become christians BEFORE they die or they'll all go up the spout.
Rom 11 25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not be conceited: A hardening in part has come to Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come from Zion;

He will remove godlessness from Jacob.

27And this is My covenant with them

when I take away their sins.”

28 Regarding the gospel, they are enemies on your account; but regarding election, they are loved on account of the patriarchs. 29For God’s gifts and His call are irrevocable.

30 Just as you who formerly disobeyed God have now received mercy through their disobedience, 31so they too have now disobeyed, in order that they too may now receive mercy through the mercy shown to you. 32For God has consigned everyone to disobedience so that He may have mercy on everyone.
 






Tidal

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30 Just as you who formerly disobeyed God have now received mercy through their disobedience, 31so they too have now disobeyed, in order that they too may now receive mercy through the mercy shown to you. 32For God has consigned everyone to disobedience so that He may have mercy on everyone.

That's just lawyer-talk mate, I prefer these clear-cut verses that show if people are not christians at the point of death, they go well and truly up the spout.. :p -

"How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot...it is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God" (Heb 10:29-31)

Nonchristians "will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath" (Revelation 14:10)

"He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still." (Revelation 22:11)
 






Tidal

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That's Paul the apostle of God talk.
Who saves, Paul or Jesus?
Logic it out mate, suppose God lines up all nonchristians in front of him on judgement day and says- "Hands up all those who want to repent and become Christians and go to heaven", EVERYBODY will raise their hand like a monty python sketch!
Fact is, if anybody has rejected Jesus while they were alive, they're NOT going to get a second chance when they die, although of course satan would like them to think that.. :p
 






TokiEl

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Who saves, Paul or Jesus?
Logic it out mate, suppose God lines up all nonchristians in front of him on judgement day and says- "Hands up all those who want to repent and become Christians and go to heaven", EVERYBODY will raise their hand like a monty python sketch!
Fact is, if anybody has rejected Jesus while they were alive, they're NOT going to get a second chance when they die, although of course satan would like them to think that.. :p
Everybody who turns from wickedness and pursues righteousness and mercy before they die will find life righteousness and mercy.

It is God who has blinded the jews as to the identity of Jesus because of their sins and because of salvation to the gentiles and it is God who opens their eyes when He pours out His Spirit on them. There will be a national repentance in the state of Israel because God's writ says so...



Zechariah 12 10Then I will pour out on the house of David and on the people of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and prayer, and they will look on Me, the One they have pierced. They will mourn for Him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for Him as one grieves for a firstborn son.

11On that day the wailing in Jerusalem will be as great as the wailing of Hadad-rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. 12The land will mourn, each clan on its own: the clan of the house of David and their wives, the clan of the house of Nathan and their wives, 13the clan of the house of Levi and their wives, the clan of Shimei and their wives, 14and all the remaining clans and their wives.
 






A Freeman

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what the hell are you on about? i quoted the Quran.
if you can't get a basic thing like that, you're not equipped to discuss religion. it makes sense why you follow this 'jahtruth' bollocks.
what you've quoted are not accurate quotations from the Quran or even the bible.
You stated the following, which is total nonsense:

Hikmah/wisdom is part of the oral tradition. The Hadith cannot capture the hikmah per se...but they also allow us to 'follow the prophet'
Where in the Koran does it tell us that wisdom is "part of the oral tradition" (i.e. the Hadith)? True Wisdom is from God Alone, THE Source of ALL Wisdom. And God most certainly didn't break His Law and have people add their "oral traditions" to His Word.

It is in the Hadith that we find numerous made-up stories about "the traditions of the prophet", is it not? Isn't that exactly where you derived you ridiculous explanation above about wisdom being "part of the oral tradition"?

Both fragments of verses you cited from the Koran -- neither of which provided any instructions for anyone to read the Hadith -- were completely addressed in context, to illustrate how you were cherry-picking and reading into both verses things that simply aren't there. which was extremely dishonest of you.

If/when you decide you can be honest with yourself and others, please feel free to discuss what has already been shared with you, which proves beyond any reasonable doubt that the Hadith is NOT sanctioned by God anywhere in the Old Covenant, New Covenant or in the Koran, nor did God ever sanction the creation of ANY organized religion, including Talmudic Judaism, pagan 'Christianity" or Hadith-based "Islam", with all of its made-up rites and rituals that mock God (e.g. the public display where"Muslims" face Mecca and pretend to pray in the exact opposite way that God COMMANDS us to call upon Him in prayer (Matt. 6:5-8, Sura 4:142, Sura 7:55).

Peace be upon you.
 






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@A Freeman
Firstly what I wrote about wisdom being part of the oral tradition ..that isn't a quote from hadith that is my own logic/thought process

When you read the Qur'an you apply your own personal narratives to it anyway. How a verse is understood and applied depends on contexts and requires wisdom.
For example the first major Surah in the Qur'an based on how it was compiled is The Calf..
That Surah talks a lot about Israelite history and their rebellion against Moses.

YET..due to current differences between Arab nationalism/fake Islamic revivalism and Zionist Israel...
The way a common Muslim tends tk interpret those verse related to Israel's transgressions ..tends to justify their current hatred against Israelis.
Yet when the cobwebs are removed ..there are many verses if not far more that refer to God choosing and elevating the children of Israel.
Personal narratives shape how we internet information.
Having an understanding of Islamic history, politics and spirituality based on how Muslims interpreted the Qur'an...is how you can maybe gain some of this mythical wisdom.
For me that Inc reading the Bible and taking lessons from history.

However, the Qur'an clearly instructs Muslims to follow Mohammad and furthermore tells us he has been given the wisdom.
Therefore the oral tradition is about relaying his words and acts to us aswell.
You're meant to take every source of information...and then use some common sense.

That doesn't mean it comes without its faults ie the hadith certainly are manipulated to some extent but common sense should prevail. I myself, am aware of the history of Sunni hadith. I find them valuable and relevant in many ways. Yet I can see through various hadith simply due to surrounding contexts eg political divide between the abbasids and Shia camp.
You don't because derp....because you don't know a thing.

however what takes the piss the most is the fact you create your own quotes of the Qur'an and can't tell the difference between Qur'an and hadith. So when I quoted the Qur'an you said "what hadith is that?" Or something like that.
I can't take you seriously.
 






A Freeman

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@A Freeman
Firstly what I wrote about wisdom being part of the oral tradition ..that isn't a quote from hadith that is my own logic/thought process
Except it was neither logical nor your original thought; it was derived directly from the Hadith, which repeatedly states it is this or that "tradition of the prophet" when, in fact (truth) it not only contradicts itself but also contradicts the Koran (Quran). What's worse is you know this to be true, and yet are still being dishonest about the source of your illogical comment, which you offered as "proof" that the Koran instructs its readers to read the Hadith, which is a very obvious LIE.

There is no wisdom (truth from God) in lies, illogic and confusion.

Please also consider that you still have not provided one single verse from the Koran that directs its readers to read the "oral traditions", i.e. the Hadith, and that everything you've written since this has been truthfully pointed out to you has been to distract from that FACT.

When you read the Qur'an you apply your own personal narratives to it anyway.
It may seem that way to the human you live inside of, who wrote this reply to defend its errant viewpoints. Humans see everything upside down and backwards because they have no facility to see anything spiritual, which requires spiritual wisdom from The Supreme SPIRITUAL-BEING (Allah, the "I AM").

How a verse is understood and applied depends on contexts and requires wisdom.
Agreed. And part of the beauty of our Creator is that understanding and application of His Word are CONSISTENT throughout ALL Scripture, because God is NOT the author of confusion; Satan is. That is precisely how it is possible to easily identify when some idiot/barbarian has tried to tamper with the Scriptures, because it stands out like a sore thumb.

For example the first major Surah in the Qur'an based on how it was compiled is The Calf..
That Surah talks a lot about Israelite history and their rebellion against Moses.
Agreed. And yet it was altered by the Roman Catholic Meccans, to facilitate the creation of the organized religion known as "Islam", which has been a very lucrative business for Mecca ever since.

The reason the Meccans altered the Koran was to try to discredit the Bible, to stop people from reading it and finding out the Truth. So they (Khadijah's cousin Waraquah according to the Vatican's archives) changed the name Isaac for the name Ishmael in Sura 2:125 and 2:127 and then claimed (and still do today) that the king James Bible is not the True Bible and that the True Bible no longer exists, so no-one can read it (which is also against what it says in the Koran - see Sura 15:9 and Sura 32:23).

Proof of these alterations may be found by examining both the book of Genesis and by further examination of the Koran (Quran).

YET..due to current differences between Arab nationalism/fake Islamic revivalism and Zionist Israel...
The way a common Muslim tends tk interpret those verse related to Israel's transgressions ..tends to justify their current hatred against Israelis.
And yet the fact remains that the overwhelming majority (upwards of 95%) of those who claim to be "Jews", as most Israelis do, are ASHKENAZIS who are only pretending to be Jews.

https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/them-which-say-they-are-jews-but-are-not.6663/

That's why the FAKE Jews in the counterfeit Jewish state of Israel in the Middle East call themselves "Israelis" because they KNOW they are NOT true Israelites.

Yet when the cobwebs are removed ..there are many verses if not far more that refer to God choosing and elevating the children of Israel.
Agreed. All of which is further proof that everyone who reads the Koran (Quran) MUST read The Law (found only in the Old Covenant) and the Gospel (found only in the New Covenant) and learn to keep The Law and follow the Gospel.

The former is the SOLE criterion for right and wrong, and the latter clearly states that THE Example we all need to follow is that of Christ, while He was here in the body of Jesus. This too should make it crystal clear that ANY "traditions of men" -- which attempt to replace The Law God gave us with another set of rules (e.g. the Talmud or the Hadith, with its "Sharia law") and replace His Anointed One with another -- are satanic in origin.

Personal narratives shape how we internet information.
Having an understanding of Islamic history, politics and spirituality based on how Muslims interpreted the Qur'an...is how you can maybe gain some of this mythical wisdom.
A "myth" is a LIE (falsehood/fiction/made-up story). Why would anyone need to gain (oxymoronic) FALSE wisdom (1 Tim. 5:20-21)?

For me that Inc reading the Bible and taking lessons from history.
As everyone should be doing. If we were UNITED in reading the Old Covenant, New Covenant and Koran, and learning to put their teachings into practice -- asking Father (Allah, the "I AM") for His Guidance every step of The Way by establishing CONSTANT prayer/communication with Him -- this world would be cured overnight of the fear, hatred and division caused by Satan's organized religions.

However, the Qur'an clearly instructs Muslims to follow Mohammad and furthermore tells us he has been given the wisdom.
Most of the references in the Koran (Quran) to His (Allah's) Messenger or THE Messenger are to His (Allah's) Anointed One (Christ), NOT to Mohammad (peace be upon him). There are at least 230 references (direct and indirect) in the Koran to Christ. How many references are there to Mohammad? Four perhaps?

How then is it possible for someone to read the Koran (Quran), which instructs its readers no less than 30 times to read The Law and/or the Gospel of Jesus (Christ) -- Who is by far the most mentioned Messenger/Prophet/Servant of God in the Koran -- for someone to ASSUME they should be following Mohammad (peace be upon him), and ASSUME that following Mohammad means accepting a fabricated, self-contradictory Hadith that is ASSUMED to be the "oral traditions" of Mohammad, even though they contradict the Koran?

Who in their right mind would believe that the Prophet Mohammad (peace be upon him) would want anyone to follow ANY instructions that contradict the Koran? Do you know of ANY other prophet mentioned anywhere in the Koran that instructed anyone to follow their personal example other than Christ, while He was here in the body of Jesus? And what does the Koran actually say about true Faith (trust in God) and following Christ's Example?

Sura 3:55. Behold! God said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee SUPERIOR to those who reject faith, to The Day of Resurrection: then shall ye all return unto Me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.

Therefore the oral tradition is about relaying his words and acts to us aswell.
You're meant to take every source of information...and then use some common sense.
Nonsense. We are meant to properly discern right from wrong, and truth from lies/fictions, using the SOLE CRITERION for that: The Law found in the first five books of the Bible, namely: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy.

Sura 2:53. And REMEMBER We gave Moses the Scripture and THE Criterion (Between right and wrong [The Torah]): THERE was a chance for YOU to be guided aright.

Sura 3:1-3
3:1. A. L. M. (Almighty. Loving. Merciful.)
3:2. Allah (God). There is no God but He,- the Living, the Self-Existing (YHWH - "I AM"), Eternal.
3:3. It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it and He sent down The Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down THE Criterion (of Judgment between right and wrong).

Sura 21:48. In the past We granted to Moses and Aaron THE Criterion (Torah) (for Judgment), and a Light and a Message for those who would do right,-

That doesn't mean it comes without its faults ie the hadith certainly are manipulated to some extent but common sense should prevail. I myself, am aware of the history of Sunni hadith. I find them valuable and relevant in many ways. Yet I can see through various hadith simply due to surrounding contexts eg political divide between the abbasids and Shia camp.
You don't because derp....because you don't know a thing.
Do you understand what the term "cognitive dissonance" means please? It's when someone attempts to hold to two conflicting viewpoints in their mind at the same time.

If a text is deemed to be faulty (in this case not only self-contradictory, but also in obvious contradiction of the Koran/Quran and the Bible which was sent before the Koran), and someone is aware that it is not only faulty, BUT THE SOURCE OF SATANIC DIVIDE AND CONQUER STRATEGIES, why would they use it, much less defend its use? How can something faulty come from God, much less do anything but lead those who are foolish enough to follow it to faulty conclusions?

How many times must Allah tell us that HE sent the Bible and Koran to us so that we might be GUIDED ARIGHT?

The Koran was meant to be the Gospel of Unity, to UNITE all mankind into a single brotherhood determined to DO God's Will. It very clearly instructs us to read and study The Law (Old Covenant) and the Gospel (New Covenant) for GUIDANCE. and to learn to establish CONSTANT prayer (telepathic communication) with Father (God, Allah, the "I AM") and KEEP our Covenant promise to obey His Commandments.

Sura 9:111. "I AM" hath purchased from the Believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is The Garden (of Bliss): they fight in His Cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in Truth, through The Law (The Torah), The Gospel (New Testament/Covenant), and The Koran: and who is more faithful to His Covenant (in the Bible) than "I AM"? Then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded (to fulfill The Covenant of "I AM" written in the Bible): that is the achievement supreme.

Anyone who mistakenly believes that the Koran (Quran) was meant to further divide us into yet another evil organized religion, or that it was sent only for the Arabs or that only "Muslims" can understand the Koran -- doesn't understand the core message found within the Koran. The Koran was sent as CONFIRMATION of The Law and the Gospel that was sent before it, so it CANNOT be in conflict with either one IF it is properly understood.

however what takes the piss the most is the fact you create your own quotes of the Qur'an and can't tell the difference between Qur'an and hadith. So when I quoted the Qur'an you said "what hadith is that?" Or something like that.
Except that didn't happen, regardless of how many times you repeat that LIE.

Instead of looking at me as the enemy (through human eyes), why not look at the truth that's being shared for everyone's benefit and focus on that instead of attempting to make it personal, to deflect attention away from your "self" and its errant views.

For example, the reason that Father provided at least 40 references in the Koran (Quran) instructing its readers to establish CONSTANT prayer is because He knew that extremely evil people would come along, create another organized religion at Satan's behest, and make a mockery out of prayer with their public displays 5 times a day.

Sura 4:142-143
4:142. The Hypocrites - they think they are over-reaching God, but He will over-reach them: when they stand up to prayer, they stand without earnestness, to be seen by men (Matt. 6:5-8), only little do they hold God in remembrance;
4:143. (They are) distracted in mind even in the midst of it,- being (sincerely) for neither one group nor for another. Whom God leaves straying,- never wilt thou find for him The Way (John 14:6).

Sura 7:55. Call on your Lord with HUMILITY and in PRIVATE (Enoch 56:5; Matt. 6:6): for "I AM" loveth not those who trespass beyond bounds.

I can't take you seriously.
Says someone who (falsely) claimed: "muslims don't regard islam as a seperate 'religion' from that of previous prophets/messengers. different books, rules and practices don't make it a different religion."

You(?) apparently don't take Father (God) nor His Messengers seriously, so how could you take anything truthful from Him seriously?

There are over 300 warnings in the Koran about The Fire that awaits over 99.99% of mankind on Judgment Day. That alone should be enough to humble any REAL Muslim (one who is "True in Faith").

Peace be upon you..
 






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Tidal

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Everybody who turns from wickedness and pursues righteousness and mercy before they die will find life righteousness and mercy.
Yeah Jews and all other nonchristians better shape up or they'll be dead meat..:)

 






Aazaad

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This God wannabe would also sit on the mount of the congregation where God used to sit.
There is but one God, you are clearly a wahhabi or a kabbalist, "God used to sit"!, God has no need, to sit or anything else, and even if he did, absolutely nothing in the whole universe, single or combined, can dethrone God.

Always. Always. And always. In every religion thread, all I see is people throw quotes of Holy Books. Believe what you believe, what's the point of this dispute?
We know the real enemy is, at least some sense of it. The Antichrist, Dajjal, Freemanson, Zionists whoever.
Their classic tactic is creating conflict between humankind, with differences.
From argument above both Bible and Quran state that we need establish prayer. Then do that, with our ways.
Why must you see who's wrong and right when we can only know it for sure in the day of Judgement?
If Christians believe that Jesus will save them, then be it.
Maybe Muslims just don't want be saved by him.
Just don't spread conflict and negativity. They thrive on that.
Muslims can't not believe in Jesus, or any other prophet (messenger). Fully agree with the other parts.
 






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