What does the Koran actually say about prayer?

friend

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Your arguments are fundementally flawed and spurious, which is why you cannot answer my points in posts no. 32 and no. 28. You can only answer with insults, hoping to evoke an emotional response.
I already said that i was wrong thinking @TokiEl was serious but he is totally confused thats why i stopped replying.
everybody knows Zionism and Freemasonry are working for One World Government and New World Order.
 






friend

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No it's the union of muslims with freemasonry.

You're right that freemasonry began with the templars... that is templars who converted to islam.
The ACCURATE way to look at Israel, the Jews and the Antichrist is to see Present-Day Israel, the Antichrist and the Antichrist's rule over the world as Satan's counterfeit of true Israel, Jesus Christ and Christ's Millennial Kingdom.

Has Illuminati curse fallen on America? Is this God's punishment for America's citizens blessing the nation of Israel

- the source is Christian
 






TokiEl

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The ACCURATE way to look at Israel, the Jews and the Antichrist is to see Present-Day Israel, the Antichrist and the Antichrist's rule over the world as Satan's counterfeit of true Israel, Jesus Christ and Christ's Millennial Kingdom.

Has Illuminati curse fallen on America? Is this God's punishment for America's citizens blessing the nation of Israel

- the source is Christian
God is with israel against her enemies.


Jeremiah 12 14This is what the LORD says: “As for all My evil neighbors who attack the inheritance that I bequeathed to My people Israel, I am about to uproot them from their land, and I will uproot the house of Judah from among them. 15But after I have uprooted them, I will once again have compassion on them and return each one to his inheritance and to his land.

16And if they will diligently learn the ways of My people and swear by My name, saying, ‘As surely as the LORD lives’—just as they once taught My people to swear by Baal—then they will be established among My people. 17
But if they will not obey, then I will uproot that nation; I will uproot it and destroy it, declares the LORD.”
 






A Freeman

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God is with israel against her enemies.


Jeremiah 12 14This is what the LORD says: “As for all My evil neighbors who attack the inheritance that I bequeathed to My people Israel, I am about to uproot them from their land, and I will uproot the house of Judah from among them. 15But after I have uprooted them, I will once again have compassion on them and return each one to his inheritance and to his land.

16And if they will diligently learn the ways of My people and swear by My name, saying, ‘As surely as the LORD lives’—just as they once taught My people to swear by Baal—then they will be established among My people. 17
But if they will not obey, then I will uproot that nation; I will uproot it and destroy it, declares the LORD.”
Anyone who has been conned into believing that the true people Israel are the counterfeit Jews living in the counterfeit Jewish state in the Middle East, is spiritually sound asleep, either being a Zionist grunt stooge or someone who has been duped by them.

https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/twelve-tribes-of-israel-info-research-thread.5480/post-284935

https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/them-which-say-they-are-jews-but-are-not.6663/
 






TokiEl

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Anyone who has been conned into believing that the true people Israel are the counterfeit Jews living in the counterfeit Jewish state in the Middle East, is spiritually sound asleep, either being a Zionist grunt stooge or someone who has been duped by them.

https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/twelve-tribes-of-israel-info-research-thread.5480/post-284935

https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/them-which-say-they-are-jews-but-are-not.6663/
Coming from one who has been conned into believing john antony hill is Jesus... i L0L at everything you say.
 






A Freeman

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Coming from one who has been conned into believing john antony hill is Jesus... i L0L at everything you say.
John Anthony Hill is JAH (Ps. 68:4, Mal. 4). Never once has there been any personal claim here or anywhere else that He is Jesus. This is simply more proof you are spiritually sound asleep, haven't been paying attention, and don't know what you're talking about, as usual.

Psalm 68:4 Sing unto God, sing praises to His name: extol Him that rideth upon the heavens by His name JAH, and rejoice before Him.

Malachi 4
4:1 For, behold, the Day cometh, that shall burn like an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the "I AM" Lord of hosts, that it shall leave of them neither root nor branch (nothing).
4:2 But unto you that fear My name shall the Sun of Righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in The Day that I shall do [this], saith the "I AM" Lord of hosts.
4:4 Remember ye and return to The Law of Moses My servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, [with] the Statutes and Judgments.
4:5 Behold, I will send you EliJAH the Prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful Day of the "I AM" (Sura 43:61):
4:6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse (see verse 4:1 above for details of the curse).

The sleeper MUST awaken (Eph. 5:14).
 






TokiEl

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John Anthony Hill is JAH (Ps. 68:4, Mal. 4). Never once has there been any personal claim here or anywhere else that He is Jesus. This is simply more proof you are spiritually sound asleep, haven't been paying attention, and don't know what you're talking about, as usual.
Jesus is YHWH.
 






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1) Similarly, We have sent among you a Messengerof your own, reciting to you Our Verses and purifying you, and teaching you the Book and the Hikmah and teaching you that which you used not to know.
(سورة البقرة, Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #151)

Hikmah/wisdom is part of the oral tradition. The Hadith cannot capture the hikmah per se...but they also allow us to 'follow the prophet'

Say (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم to mankind): "If you (really) love Allah then follow me
Aal-i-Imraan, Chapter #3, Verse #31)


i want you to just think about what the word 'follow' means here and how it applies.

those 2 verses from the Quran completely end the 'quran only' argument. they open the way to the oral tradition and PATH/WAY of the prophet which is given not only through hadith, but the practices and fiqh of muslims going back to the prophet himself.

2) And where in the Koran (Quran) was Mohammad instructed to start a new organized religion?
erm...
i mean the verse i already used on it's own is enough

Say (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم to mankind): "If you (really) love Allah then follow me
Aal-i-Imraan, Chapter #3, Verse #31)

(1) To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;
(سورة المائدة, Al-Maaida, Chapter #5, Verse #48)


muslims don't regard islam as a seperate 'religion' from that of previous prophets/messengers. different books, rules and practices don't make it a different religion.



@TokiEl as i said many times, the verse you refer to was talking about the King of Babylon's intent to occupy MOUNT ZAPHON where they used to worship a false deity.

the morning star itself, is also in Revelation 2, it is a term describing WISDOM itself. However it's use in isaiah 14 is in sarcastic tone..in reference to the king of babylon.

your argument on this is just weak. your choice to repeat it shows that you are done..
you're completely lost and have nothing left to offer but to lie out of pure bitterness.

HERE is the credible argument, the one that explains the muslim position in Jerusalem

In Daniel 9, the messiah/prince was cut of on the 69th week mark.
7 weeks for the construction of the temple.
62 more weeks until the messiah was cut off.
That left only 1 week.

26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. . The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.”

so from Jesus to the destruction of the temple..that is 'half a week'
yet instead of the normal '1 day for a year' like before, it altered to a context similar to the '70 yrs of exile' eg it was 35 yrs from Jesus to the ending of the covenant and invasion of Jerusalem by Titus.

so that left a final 3.5 days...
now upto this point, no one is going to know how these 3.5 days are to play out..
however it is fascinating that in the book of Revelation the number 1260 days or 42 months is used several times and all in the context of JERUSALEM!!
1260 days/42 months = 3.5 yrs..which does fit the theme of the Daniel 9 prophecy

it just happens that when you convert 42 months/1260 days into 1260 years (lunar years) you get this

11 I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, “Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, with its worshipers. 2 But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. 3 And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.”

Muslims conquered Jerusalem in
637AD
first crusade where it was lost to Christians..
1099AD
Muslims took it back in 1187
held it till 1948.
761 years and 462 years
Total 1223 years of Muslim control.

In lunar years that is 1223 X 1.03068
That comes to exactly 1260 years.

personally, i dont believe in a 'muslim jerusalem' no more
the prophecies all link jerusalem with dajjal, the antichrist..and this also fits in line with Revelation 11

7 Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them. 8 Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city—which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where also their Lord was crucified. 9 For three and a half days some from every people, tribe, language and nation will gaze on their bodies and refuse them burial. 10 The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth.

3.5 days is fascinating because it on one hand also fits in line with the daniel 9 prophecy theme, but also with the resurrection of Jesus.

meanwhile, by this point, jerusalem (post muslim control) is referred to as 'sodom and egypt'
hence you have masonic israel with gay parade events....and yet THAT is the version you're associating with 'the true God'

As for freemasons..
modern israel, the 'sodom and egypt' version...is owned by freemasons

hence


immigration argument doesnt mean anything
jews lived in ancient Greece, Rome, Babylon, Egypt..
 






TokiEl

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@TokiEl as i said many times, the verse you refer to was talking about the King of Babylon's intent to occupy MOUNT ZAPHON where they used to worship a false deity.
Prophets of God spoke as they were moved to speak by the Spirit of God... and so it's impossible to understand the more subtile points in a prophets message unless the Spirit of God reveals it to you.

That's why having PhD in bible matters means absolutely nothing.



Within the prophet's message in this case is a description of a fallen heavenly being who would also sit on the mount of the congregation... in the sides of the north.

Well the mount of the congregation is where the israelites congregated for a thousand years... because God was there in the temple on the mount of the congregation.

Now God's temple is no more on the mount of the congregation... but there are temples there on the mount of the congregation... in the sides of the north.

Whose temples are that ?As the prophet said... a fallen heavenly being.



This should not come as a surprise to christians who are told over and again in God's writ... that a fallen angel is the god of this world in this age... until Jesus returns.
 






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TokiEl

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In Daniel 9, the messiah/prince was cut of on the 69th week mark.
7 weeks for the construction of the temple.
62 more weeks until the messiah was cut off.
That left only 1 week.

26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. . The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.”
I must have shown the solution to Daniel's 70 weeks problem over ten times already... but just as christians on this forum you are too preoccupied with your own prejudices... to recognize truths when shown even in detail.
 






A Freeman

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1) Similarly, We have sent among you a Messengerof your own, reciting to you Our Verses and purifying you, and teaching you the Book and the Hikmah and teaching you that which you used not to know.
(سورة البقرة, Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #151)

Hikmah/wisdom is part of the oral tradition. The Hadith cannot capture the hikmah per se...but they also allow us to 'follow the prophet'
You quote from the fabricated Hadith as evidence that the Hadith/oral traditions should be followed. WHERE IN THE KORAN DOES IT TELL ANYONE TO READ THE HADITH? The answer: NOWHERE.

Say (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم to mankind): "If you (really) love Allah then follow me
Aal-i-Imraan, Chapter #3, Verse #31)


i want you to just think about what the word 'follow' means here and how it applies.
So, in your mind God sent the Koran/Quran -- which He told us at least 10 times was to CONFIRM THAT WHICH WAS SENT BEFORE IT -- so that someone who lived 250 years AFTER Mohammad could spend 16 years making up whatever stories he (Sahih al Bukhari) wanted to, falsely claiming them to be "the oral traditions handed down from Mohammad"?

Here is what Allah actually said about HIS Koran, which was intended NOT to start yet another evil organized religion, but to be A CONFIRMATION of what went before it, in the Old Covenant and New Covenant.

(Sura 2:97-98, 3:1-3, 4:47, 5:51, 6:92-94, 6:154-157, 10:37, 12:111, 22:52, 35:31, 46:12, 61:6-7)

Sura 2:97-98
2:97. Say: "Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel - for he brings down the (revelation) to thy heart by God's Will, A CONFIRMATION OF WHAT WENT BEFORE, and guidance and glad tidings for those who believe,-
2:98. Whoever is an enemy to God and His angels and Apostles, to Gabriel and Michael (Daniel 12:1; Rev. 12:7),- Lo! God is an enemy to those who reject Faith."

Sura 3:1-3
3:1. A. L. M. (Almighty. Loving. Merciful.)
3:2. Allah (God). There is no God but He,- the Living, the Self-Existing (YHWH - "I AM"), Eternal.
3:3. It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Koran, CONFIRMING WHAT WENT BEFORE IT and He sent down The Law (of Moses) and The Gospel (of Jesus) BEFORE THIS, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down The Criterion (of Judgment between right and wrong).

Sura 4:47. O ye People of The Book! Believe in what We have (now) revealed, CONFIRMING WHAT WAS (ALREADY) WITH YOU, before We change the face and fame of some (of you) beyond all recognition, and turn them hindwards, or curse them as We cursed the Sabbath-breakers, for the decision of God MUST be carried out.

Sura 5:51. To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, CONFIRMING THE SCRIPTURE THAT CAME BEFORE IT, and guarding it in safety (Sura 32:23): so judge between them by what "I AM" hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires (Sura 9:107-111), diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have We prescribed The Law and The Open Way (Matt. 7:13-14). If "I AM" had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His Plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to "I AM"; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters about which ye dispute;

Sura 6:92-94
6:92. And this (Koran) is a Book which We have sent down, bringing blessings, AND CONFIRMING (THE REVELATIONS) WHICH CAME BEFORE IT: that thou mayest warn the Mother of Cities (Jerusalem - Isaiah 1:1, 21; Matt. 23:37) and all around her (just like almost all of the previous Prophets were also told to do). Those who believe in the Hereafter (also) believe this (Book), and they are constant in guarding their prayers.
6:93. Who can be more wicked than one who inventeth a lie against "I AM", or saith, "I have received inspiration," when he hath received none, or (again) who saith, "I can reveal the like of what "I AM" hath revealed"? If thou couldst but see how the wicked (do fare) in the flood of confusion at death! - The angels stretch forth their hands, (saying),"Yield up your souls/Beings: this day shall ye receive your reward,- a penalty of shame, for that ye used to tell lies against "I AM", and scornfully to reject of His Signs!
6:94. And behold! Ye come to us bare and alone as We created you for the first time: ye have left behind you all (the favours) which We bestowed on you: We see not with you your intercessors whom ye thought to be partners in your affairs: so now all relations between you have been cut off, and your (pet) fancies have left you in the lurch!"

Sura 6:154-157
6:154. Moreover, We gave Moses The Book (The Torah), COMPLETING (Our favour) to those who would do right, and explaining ALL things IN DETAIL,- and a GUIDE and a MERCY, that they might believe in the meeting with their Lord.
6:155. And this (Torah) is a Book which We have revealed as a BLESSING: so follow it and be righteous, that YE may receive mercy (Sura 32:23):
6:156. Lest YE should say: "The Book (The Torah) was sent down to two Peoples before us, and for our part, we remained unacquainted with all that they learned by careful study:"
6:157. Or lest YE should say: "If The Book (The Torah) had only been sent down to US, we should have FOLLOWED its guidance BETTER than they (Sura 32:23)." Now then hath come unto YOU a clear (Sign) from your Lord,- and a GUIDE and a MERCY: then who could do MORE WRONG than one who rejecteth "I AM"'s Signs (and The Torah - Bible), and turneth away therefrom? In good time shall We requite those who turn away from Our Signs, with a dreadful penalty, for their turning away.

Sura 10:37-38
10:37. This Koran is not such as can be produced by other than "I AM"; on the contrary IT IS A CONFIRMATION OF (REVELATIONS) THAT WENT BEFORE IT, and a fuller explanation of The Book (Bible - on some issues) - wherein there is no doubt - from The Lord of The Worlds.
10:38. Or do they say, "He forged it"? Say: "Bring then A SURA like unto it, and call (to your aid) anyone you can besides "I AM", if it be ye speak the truth!"

Sura 12:111. There is, in their stories, instruction for men endued with understanding. It is not a tale invented, BUT A CONFIRMATION OF WHAT WENT BEFORE IT,- a detailed exposition of all things, and a Guide and a Mercy to any such as believe.

Sura 22:52. Never did We send an Apostle or a Prophet before thee, but, when he framed a desire, Satan threw some (vanity) into his desire: but "I AM" will cancel anything (vain) that Satan throws in, and "I AM" WILL CONFIRM (AND ESTABLISH) HIS SIGNS (Sura 32:23): for "I AM" is full of Knowledge and Wisdom:

Sura 35:31. That which We have revealed to thee about The Book (Bible) is the Truth,- CONFIRMING WHAT WAS (REVEALED) BEFORE: for "I AM" is assuredly - with respect to His Servants - well acquainted and Fully Observant.

Sura 46:12. And before this, was the Book of Moses (The Torah - The Law) as a guide and a mercy: and THIS BOOK CONFIRMS (IT - THE TORAH) IN THE ARABIC TONGUE; to warn the unjust, and as Good News to those who do right.

Sura 61:6-7
61:6. And REMEMBER, JESUS, the son of Mary, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the Apostle of "I AM" (sent) to you, CONFIRMING The Law (which came) before me (the Torah), and giving Glad Tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be the Comforter (John 16:7-15)." But when he came to them with Clear Signs (John 14:15-18), they said, "this is evident sorcery (Sura 32:23)!"
61:7. Who doth greater wrong than one who invents falsehood against "I AM" (Sura 6:154-157), even as he is being invited to do His Will? And "I AM" guides not those who do wrong (Satan does).

Sura 6:122. Can he who WAS dead (Jesus), to whom We gave life (John 11:25, Acts 2:31-32, 3:15, Gal. 1:1), and a Light (Mal. 4:2, Matt. 24:27, John 8:3) with which he walks amongst men (Christ), be like him who is in the depths of darkness (Lucifer 2 Cor. 11:13-15), from which he can never come out? Thus to those without Faith their own deeds* seem pleasing (Deut. 12:8, Sura 4:142).

*the rites and rituals of their organized religions

Sura 3:55-56
3:55. Behold! God said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee SUPERIOR to those who reject faith, to The Day of Resurrection: then shall ye all return unto Me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.
3:56. As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

There are at least 30 references in the Koran instructing its readers that they MUST read The Law and the Gospel of Jesus.

Suras 2:53, 2:89-93, 3:1-3, 3:48-50, 4:54, 5:46-50, 6:91-92, 6:154-157, 7:157, 9:111, 11:17, 15:9-10, 17:2-4, 21:48, 23:20, 23:49, 25:35, 28:1-3, 32:23, 35:25-32, 37:117, 40:53, 40:70, 41:45, 42:14-17, 45:16, 46:12, 46:30, 48:29, 53:36-47, 57:25-29, 61:6, 78:2

How obvious does it need to be that it's the Bible - the Old Covenant and the New Covenant - that COMPLETE the Koran?

Sahih al Bukhari made up the self-contradictory Hadith to keep Muslims/Moslems AWAY from the Bible, which the Saudi-trained imams teach has been "lost" or "corrupted" to ensure Muslims are without the SOLE CRITERION that determines right from wrong: The Law, found ONLY within the first five books of the Bible, namely Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy, and THE Example of following The Law, found only in the Gospel of Jesus, recorded by Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and Thomas.

And here is what Allah (the "I AM") said In The Law, about what all organized religions have done (including what al Bukhari did), in making up their own "oral traditions", e.g. the Talmud and Hadith, which is a death penalty offense.

Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not ADD unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish [ought] from it, that ye may keep the Commandments of the "I AM" your God which I COMMAND you.

Deuteronomy 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

So please THINK about Who/who exactly you should be following; should you be following Allah and what He has said in and through HIS WORD (the Old Covenant, New Covenant and Koran), through His (Allah's) Messengers, or should you be following what the LIAR (Lucifer/Satan/Iblis/the devil) has sent through his servants, e.g. al Bukhari.

those 2 verses from the Quran completely end the 'quran only' argument.
Agreed. And they direct the readers of the Koran/Quran back to the Old Covenant and New Covenant which the Koran/Quran was sent to CONFIRM.

they open the way to the oral tradition and PATH/WAY of the prophet which is given not only through hadith, but the practices and fiqh of muslims going back to the prophet himself.
No, they don't. Not when considering that the Koran was only sent to CONFIRM the Old Covenant and New Covenant that came before it. Please see those two verses you cited in context.

Sura 2:139-161
2:139. Say: "Will ye dispute with us about God, seeing that He is our Lord and your Lord; that we are responsible for our doings and ye for yours; and that we are sincere (in our trust) in Him?
2:140. Or do ye say that Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob and the [twelve] Tribes were Jews or Christians?" Say: "Do ye know better than God?" Ah! who is more unjust than those who conceal the testimony they have from God? But God is NOT unaware of what ye do!
2:141. That was a people that hath departed from The Way. They shall reap the fruit of what they did, and ye of what ye do! Of their merits there is no reference in your case.
2:142. The fools among the people will say: "What hath turned them from Abraham's Sacrifice at which they were used [to quibbling]?" Say: "To God belong both East and West: He guideth whom He will to The Way that is straight (and strait)."
2:143. Thus, have We made of you a people Justly Balanced, that ye might be witnesses over the nations, and the Messenger a witness over yourselves and We appointed the Sacrifice to which thou wast used, only to test those who followed the Messenger from those who would turn on their heels (from the Faith). Indeed it was (a change) momentous, except to those guided by God. And never would God make your faith of no effect. For God is to all people most surely full of kindness, Most Merciful.
2:144. We see the turning of thy face (for guidance) to the heavens: now shall We turn thee to a Sacrifice that shall please thee? Turn thy face in the direction of the Holy Place: Wherever ye are, turn your faces in that direction. The people of The Book (Bible) know well that that is the truth from their Lord (1 kings 8:29-30; 2 Chron 3:1). Nor is God unaware of what they do.
2:145. Even if thou wert to bring to the people of The Book all the Signs (together), they would not follow thy Sacrifice nor art thou going to follow their Sacrifice, nor indeed will they follow each other's Sacrifice. If thou, after the Knowledge hath reached thee, wast to follow their (vain) desires (organized religions),-then wast thou indeed (clearly) in the wrong.
2:146. The people of The Book know this as they know their own sons; but some of them conceal the truth which they themselves know.
2:147. The Truth is from thy Lord (not from satan); so be not at all in doubt.
2:148. To each is a goal to which God turns him; then strive together (as in a race) towards all that is good. Wheresoever ye are, God will bring you together. For God hath power over all things.
2:149. From whencesoever thou startest forth, turn thy face in the direction of the Holy Place that is indeed the Truth from the Lord. And God is not unaware of what ye do.
2:150. So from whencesoever thou startest forth, turn thy face in the direction of the Holy Place (Jerusalem) and wheresoever ye are, turn your face thither: that there be no ground of dispute against you among the people, except those of them that are bent on wickedness; so fear them not, but fear Me; and that I may complete My favours on you, and ye may (consent to) be guided.
2:151. A similar (favour have ye already received) in that We have sent among you a Messenger of your own, rehearsing to you Our Signs, and sanctifying you, and instructing you in Scripture and Wisdom, and in new Knowledge.
2:152. Remember Me (God); then I will remember you. Be grateful to Me, and reject not Faith.
2:153. O ye who believe! seek help with patient Perseverance and Prayer: for God is with those who patiently persevere.
2:154. And say not of those who are slain in The Way of God: "They are dead." Nay, they are living, though ye perceive (it) not (re-incarnation).
2:155. Be sure We shall test you with something of fear and hunger, some loss in goods or lives or the fruits (of your toil), but [We] give glad tidings to those who patiently persevere,-
2:156. Who say, when afflicted with calamity: "To God we belong, and to Him is our return":-
2:157. They are those on whom (descend) blessings from God, and Mercy, and they are the ones that receive Guidance.
2:158. Behold! Safa (being born again [as your spirit-Being] - John 3:3-7) and Marwa (the Water of Life - John 4:10) are among the Symbols of God. So for those who visit The House in the Season, it is no sin in them, if their mind should compass them round (understand) at other times. And if any one obeyeth his own impulse to good,- be sure that God is He Who recogniseth and knoweth.
2:159. Those who conceal the Clear (Signs) We have sent down, and the Guidance, after We have made it clear for the people in The Book,- on them shall be God's curse (Deut. 28:15-68), and the curse of those entitled to curse,-
2:160. Except those who repent and make amends and openly declare (the Truth): to them I turn; for I am Oft-returning, Most Merciful.
2:161. Those who reject Faith, and die rejecting,- on them is God's curse, and the curse of angels, and of all mankind;
2:162. They will abide therein: their penalty will not be lightened, nor will respite be their (lot).
2:163. And your God is One God. There is no god but He, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

Sura 3:30-52
3:30. On the Day when every soul will be confronted with all the good it has done, and all the evil it has done, it will wish there were a great distance between it and its evil. But God cautions you (to remember) Himself (Mal. 4:4-6). And God is full of kindness to those that serve [only] Him."
3:31. Say: "If ye do love God, follow me: God will love you and forgive you your sins: for God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."
3:32. Say: "Obey God and His Messenger": but if they turn back, God loveth not those who reject Faith.
3:33. God did choose Adam and Noah, the family of Abraham, and the family of Amram above all people,-
3:34. Offspring, one of the other: and God heareth and knoweth all things.
3:35. Behold! A woman (Hannah - Anne who was a member of the British Royal Family) of Amram (who was a Levite) said: "O my Lord! I do dedicate unto Thee what is in my womb for Thy special service: so accept this of me: for Thou hearest and knowest all things."
3:36. When she was delivered, she said: "O my Lord! Behold! I am delivered of a female child!"- and God knew best what she brought forth- "And in no way is the male like the female. I have named her Mary, and I commend her and her offspring to Thy protection from the Evil One, the Rejected."
3:37. Right graciously did her Lord accept her: He made her grow in purity and beauty: to the care of Zacharias was she assigned. Every time that he entered (her) chamber to see her, he found her supplied with sustenance. He said: "O Mary! Whence (comes) this to you?" She said: "From God: for God provides sustenance to whom He pleases without measure."
3:38. There did Zacharias pray to his Lord, saying: "O my Lord! Grant unto me from Thee a progeny that is pure: for Thou art He that heareth prayer!"
3:39. While he was standing in prayer in the chamber, the angels called unto him: "(God) doth give thee glad tidings of John (the Baptist), witnessing the Truth of The Word from God, and (be besides) noble, chaste, and a Prophet,- of the (goodly) company of the righteous."
3:40. He said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son, seeing I am very old, and my wife is barren?" "Thus," was the answer, "Doth God accomplish what He willeth."
3:41. He said: "O my Lord! Give me a Sign!" "Thy Sign," was the answer, "Shall be that thou shalt speak to no man for three days except with signals (Luke 1:18-22). Then celebrate the praises of thy Lord again and again, and glorify Him in the evening and in the morning."
3:42. Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! God hath chosen thee and purified thee- chosen thee above the women of all nations.
3:43. O Mary! worship Thy Lord devoutly: prostrate thyself, and bow down (in prayer) with those who bow down."
3:44. This is part of the tidings of the things unseen, which We reveal unto thee (O Messenger!) by inspiration: thou wast not with them when they cast lots with arrows, as to which of them should be charged with the care of Mary: nor wast thou with them when they disputed (the point).
3:45. Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! God giveth thee glad tidings of The Word (John 1:1-5) from Him: he will be called Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to God.
3:46. He shall speak to the people in childhood (Luke 2:40-47) and in maturity. And he shall be (of the company) of the righteous."
3:47. She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: God createth what He willeth: when He hath decreed a plan, He only saith to it, 'Be,' and it is!
3:48. And God will teach him The Book (Old Covenant) and Wisdom, The Law (The Torah) and The Gospel,
3:49. And (appoint him) an Apostle to the Children of Israel, (with this message): "'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by God's leave: and I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I enliven the dead, by God's leave and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe;
3:50. (I have come to you), to affirm The Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear God, and obey me.
3:51. It is God Who is my Lord and your Lord then worship Him. This is The Way (John 14:6) that is Straight' (Matt. 7:13-14)."
3:52. When Jesus found Unbelief on their part he said: "Who will be My helpers to (the work of) God." Said the disciples: "We are God's helpers: we believe in God, and do thou bear witness that we are "True in Faith".

Mohammad (peace be upon him) was sent as a Messenger from God, just as all of the prophets before him. But His (God's) Messenger is clearly His Christ (Anointed One) as should be self-evident from the passages above taken in context, particularly the one from Sura 3.

2) And where in the Koran (Quran) was Mohammad instructed to start a new organized religion?
erm...
i mean the verse i already used on it's own is enough

Say (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم to mankind): "If you (really) love Allah then follow me
Aal-i-Imraan, Chapter #3, Verse #31)
You've cited part of a verse and left it out of context, and feel that is proof that the self-contradictory Hadith should have been written 250 years later which also contradicts the Koran/Quran? How ridiculous!

Please consider why Allah decided to mention Mohammad so infrequently in His Koran, but decided to mention Jesus -- directly or indirectly - at least 230 times. And even if we look at the references to Muhammad/Mohammad, we find instruction directing us back to the Bible which came before it, CONFIRMING The Example we should all be following is the one set by Prince Michael/Christ -- the "Unlettered Prophet", while He was here in the body of Jesus (John 14:6).

Sura 48:29. Muhammad is the Apostle of "I AM"; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other. Thou wilt see them bow and prostrate themselves (in prayer), seeking Grace from "I AM" and (His) Good Pleasure. On their faces are their marks (Rev. 7:4-9, 14:1-4) (being) the traces of their prostration (Matt. 6:5-8, Sura 7:55). This is their similitude in the Taurat (The Torah); and their similitude in The Gospel is: like a seed which sends forth its blade, then makes it strong; it then becomes thick, and it stands on its own stem, (filling) the sowers with wonder and delight. As a result, it fills the Unbelievers with rage at them. "I AM" has promised those among them who believe and do righteous deeds Forgiveness, and a great Reward.

Sura 7:157-158
7:157. Those who follow The Apostle, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (Scriptures - the Bible),- in The Law (The Torah) and The Gospel (New Testament - Covenant);- for he commands them what is just and forbids them what is evil; he allows them as lawful what is good (and pure) and prohibits them from what is bad (and impure); he releases them from their heavy burdens (Matthew 23:1-4) and from the yokes that are upon them. So it is those who believe him, honour him, help him, and follow the Light which is sent down with him,- it is they who will prosper [King of kings' Bible - John 8:3 (KJV - John 8:12)]."
7:158. Say: "O men! I am sent unto you all, as the Messenger of "I AM", to Whom belongeth the Dominion of the heavens and the Earth: there is no god but He: it is He That giveth both life and death. So believe in "I AM" and His Messenger, the Unlettered Prophet (John 7:15-19), who believeth "I AM" and His words: follow him that (so) ye may be guided (by "The Way" - John 14:6)."

John 7:15-19
7:15 And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man "Letters", having never been taught?
7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but His that sent me.
7:17 If any man will do His will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or [whether] I speak of myself.
7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh His glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.
7:19 Did not Moses give you The Law, and [yet] NONE of you keepeth The Law? Why go ye about to kill me?


John 8:3 Then spoke Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the Light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the Light of Life.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am The Way, the Truth, and the Life: NOT one man cometh unto the Father, EXCEPT by me.

John 3:19-21
3:19 And this is the condemnation, that Light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than Light, because their deeds were evil.
3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the Light, neither cometh to the Light, lest his deeds should be revealed.
3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the Light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.


(1) To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;
(سورة المائدة, Al-Maaida, Chapter #5, Verse #48)
And in context...

Sura 5:46-50
5:46. But why do they come to thee for decision, when they have (their own) Law (the Torah) before them?- therein is the (plain) command of "I AM"; yet even after that, they would turn away. For they are not (really) People of Faith.
5:47. It was We Who revealed The Law (to Moses): therein is Guidance and Light. By its Standard (Criterion) have been judged the Jews, by the Prophets who bowed to "I AM"'s Will; the Rabbis and the Doctors of Law: for to them was entrusted the protection of "I AM"'s Book, and they were witnesses thereto: therefore fear not men, but fear Me, and sell not My Signs for a miserable price. If any do fail to judge by (the Light of) what "I AM" hath revealed, they are (no better than) Unbelievers.
5:48. We ordained therein for them: "Life for life, eye for eye, nose for nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal." But if any one remits the retaliation by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for himself (Matt. 5:44). And if any fail to judge by (the Light of) what "I AM" hath revealed, they are (no better than) wrong-doers (and are the accomplices of the wrong-doers and equally guilty).
5:49. And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming The Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein is Guidance and Light, and confirmation of The Law that had come before him: a Guidance and a Warning to those who fear "I AM".
5:50. Let the People of the Gospel judge by what "I AM" hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the Light of) what "I AM" hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel (and are equally guilty).

muslims don't regard islam as a seperate 'religion' from that of previous prophets/messengers. different books, rules and practices don't make it a different religion.
Of course roughly 2 billion "Muslims" practicing what they refer to as "Islam" (with its unscriptural made-up rules, rites and rituals) proves the above statement to be a LIE.

If instead of following the traditions of men -- which make the Commandments of God of no effect -- we instead obey and follow ONLY what God has said in His Book (Acts 5:29), there would be no organized religions of any kind. God's Book includes the Old Covenant, New Covenant, Koran and THE KEY to all three, referred to as "the white stone" and "the little book" in Revelation 2:17 and 10:7-10.
 






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You quote from the fabricated Hadith as evidence that the Hadith/oral traditions should be followed. WHERE IN THE KORAN DOES IT TELL ANYONE TO READ THE HADITH? The answer: NOWHERE.



So, in your mind God sent the Koran/Quran -- which He told us at least 10 times was to CONFIRM THAT WHICH WAS SENT BEFORE IT -- so that someone who lived 250 years AFTER Mohammad could spend 16 years making up whatever stories he (Sahih al Bukhari) wanted to, falsely claiming them to be "the oral traditions handed down from Mohammad"?

Here is what Allah actually said about HIS Koran, which was intended NOT to start yet another evil organized religion, but to be A CONFIRMATION of what went before it, in the Old Covenant and New Covenant.

(Sura 2:97-98, 3:1-3, 4:47, 5:51, 6:92-94, 6:154-157, 10:37, 12:111, 22:52, 35:31, 46:12, 61:6-7)

Sura 2:97-98
2:97. Say: "Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel - for he brings down the (revelation) to thy heart by God's Will, A CONFIRMATION OF WHAT WENT BEFORE, and guidance and glad tidings for those who believe,-
2:98. Whoever is an enemy to God and His angels and Apostles, to Gabriel and Michael (Daniel 12:1; Rev. 12:7),- Lo! God is an enemy to those who reject Faith."

Sura 3:1-3
3:1. A. L. M. (Almighty. Loving. Merciful.)
3:2. Allah (God). There is no God but He,- the Living, the Self-Existing (YHWH - "I AM"), Eternal.
3:3. It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Koran, CONFIRMING WHAT WENT BEFORE IT and He sent down The Law (of Moses) and The Gospel (of Jesus) BEFORE THIS, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down The Criterion (of Judgment between right and wrong).

Sura 4:47. O ye People of The Book! Believe in what We have (now) revealed, CONFIRMING WHAT WAS (ALREADY) WITH YOU, before We change the face and fame of some (of you) beyond all recognition, and turn them hindwards, or curse them as We cursed the Sabbath-breakers, for the decision of God MUST be carried out.

Sura 5:51. To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, CONFIRMING THE SCRIPTURE THAT CAME BEFORE IT, and guarding it in safety (Sura 32:23): so judge between them by what "I AM" hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires (Sura 9:107-111), diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have We prescribed The Law and The Open Way (Matt. 7:13-14). If "I AM" had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His Plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to "I AM"; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters about which ye dispute;

Sura 6:92-94
6:92. And this (Koran) is a Book which We have sent down, bringing blessings, AND CONFIRMING (THE REVELATIONS) WHICH CAME BEFORE IT: that thou mayest warn the Mother of Cities (Jerusalem - Isaiah 1:1, 21; Matt. 23:37) and all around her (just like almost all of the previous Prophets were also told to do). Those who believe in the Hereafter (also) believe this (Book), and they are constant in guarding their prayers.
6:93. Who can be more wicked than one who inventeth a lie against "I AM", or saith, "I have received inspiration," when he hath received none, or (again) who saith, "I can reveal the like of what "I AM" hath revealed"? If thou couldst but see how the wicked (do fare) in the flood of confusion at death! - The angels stretch forth their hands, (saying),"Yield up your souls/Beings: this day shall ye receive your reward,- a penalty of shame, for that ye used to tell lies against "I AM", and scornfully to reject of His Signs!
6:94. And behold! Ye come to us bare and alone as We created you for the first time: ye have left behind you all (the favours) which We bestowed on you: We see not with you your intercessors whom ye thought to be partners in your affairs: so now all relations between you have been cut off, and your (pet) fancies have left you in the lurch!"

Sura 6:154-157
6:154. Moreover, We gave Moses The Book (The Torah), COMPLETING (Our favour) to those who would do right, and explaining ALL things IN DETAIL,- and a GUIDE and a MERCY, that they might believe in the meeting with their Lord.
6:155. And this (Torah) is a Book which We have revealed as a BLESSING: so follow it and be righteous, that YE may receive mercy (Sura 32:23):
6:156. Lest YE should say: "The Book (The Torah) was sent down to two Peoples before us, and for our part, we remained unacquainted with all that they learned by careful study:"
6:157. Or lest YE should say: "If The Book (The Torah) had only been sent down to US, we should have FOLLOWED its guidance BETTER than they (Sura 32:23)." Now then hath come unto YOU a clear (Sign) from your Lord,- and a GUIDE and a MERCY: then who could do MORE WRONG than one who rejecteth "I AM"'s Signs (and The Torah - Bible), and turneth away therefrom? In good time shall We requite those who turn away from Our Signs, with a dreadful penalty, for their turning away.

Sura 10:37-38
10:37. This Koran is not such as can be produced by other than "I AM"; on the contrary IT IS A CONFIRMATION OF (REVELATIONS) THAT WENT BEFORE IT, and a fuller explanation of The Book (Bible - on some issues) - wherein there is no doubt - from The Lord of The Worlds.
10:38. Or do they say, "He forged it"? Say: "Bring then A SURA like unto it, and call (to your aid) anyone you can besides "I AM", if it be ye speak the truth!"

Sura 12:111. There is, in their stories, instruction for men endued with understanding. It is not a tale invented, BUT A CONFIRMATION OF WHAT WENT BEFORE IT,- a detailed exposition of all things, and a Guide and a Mercy to any such as believe.

Sura 22:52. Never did We send an Apostle or a Prophet before thee, but, when he framed a desire, Satan threw some (vanity) into his desire: but "I AM" will cancel anything (vain) that Satan throws in, and "I AM" WILL CONFIRM (AND ESTABLISH) HIS SIGNS (Sura 32:23): for "I AM" is full of Knowledge and Wisdom:

Sura 35:31. That which We have revealed to thee about The Book (Bible) is the Truth,- CONFIRMING WHAT WAS (REVEALED) BEFORE: for "I AM" is assuredly - with respect to His Servants - well acquainted and Fully Observant.

Sura 46:12. And before this, was the Book of Moses (The Torah - The Law) as a guide and a mercy: and THIS BOOK CONFIRMS (IT - THE TORAH) IN THE ARABIC TONGUE; to warn the unjust, and as Good News to those who do right.

Sura 61:6-7
61:6. And REMEMBER, JESUS, the son of Mary, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the Apostle of "I AM" (sent) to you, CONFIRMING The Law (which came) before me (the Torah), and giving Glad Tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be the Comforter (John 16:7-15)." But when he came to them with Clear Signs (John 14:15-18), they said, "this is evident sorcery (Sura 32:23)!"
61:7. Who doth greater wrong than one who invents falsehood against "I AM" (Sura 6:154-157), even as he is being invited to do His Will? And "I AM" guides not those who do wrong (Satan does).

Sura 6:122. Can he who WAS dead (Jesus), to whom We gave life (John 11:25, Acts 2:31-32, 3:15, Gal. 1:1), and a Light (Mal. 4:2, Matt. 24:27, John 8:3) with which he walks amongst men (Christ), be like him who is in the depths of darkness (Lucifer 2 Cor. 11:13-15), from which he can never come out? Thus to those without Faith their own deeds* seem pleasing (Deut. 12:8, Sura 4:142).

*the rites and rituals of their organized religions

Sura 3:55-56
3:55. Behold! God said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee SUPERIOR to those who reject faith, to The Day of Resurrection: then shall ye all return unto Me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.
3:56. As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

There are at least 30 references in the Koran instructing its readers that they MUST read The Law and the Gospel of Jesus.

Suras 2:53, 2:89-93, 3:1-3, 3:48-50, 4:54, 5:46-50, 6:91-92, 6:154-157, 7:157, 9:111, 11:17, 15:9-10, 17:2-4, 21:48, 23:20, 23:49, 25:35, 28:1-3, 32:23, 35:25-32, 37:117, 40:53, 40:70, 41:45, 42:14-17, 45:16, 46:12, 46:30, 48:29, 53:36-47, 57:25-29, 61:6, 78:2

How obvious does it need to be that it's the Bible - the Old Covenant and the New Covenant - that COMPLETE the Koran?

Sahih al Bukhari made up the self-contradictory Hadith to keep Muslims/Moslems AWAY from the Bible, which the Saudi-trained imams teach has been "lost" or "corrupted" to ensure Muslims are without the SOLE CRITERION that determines right from wrong: The Law, found ONLY within the first five books of the Bible, namely Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy, and THE Example of following The Law, found only in the Gospel of Jesus, recorded by Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and Thomas.

And here is what Allah (the "I AM") said In The Law, about what all organized religions have done (including what al Bukhari did), in making up their own "oral traditions", e.g. the Talmud and Hadith, which is a death penalty offense.

Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not ADD unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish [ought] from it, that ye may keep the Commandments of the "I AM" your God which I COMMAND you.

Deuteronomy 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

So please THINK about Who/who exactly you should be following; should you be following Allah and what He has said in and through HIS WORD (the Old Covenant, New Covenant and Koran), through His (Allah's) Messengers, or should you be following what the LIAR (Lucifer/Satan/Iblis/the devil) has sent through his servants, e.g. al Bukhari.


Agreed. And they direct the readers of the Koran/Quran back to the Old Covenant and New Covenant which the Koran/Quran was sent to CONFIRM.


No, they don't. Not when considering that the Koran was only sent to CONFIRM the Old Covenant and New Covenant that came before it. Please see those two verses you cited in context.

Sura 2:139-161
2:139. Say: "Will ye dispute with us about God, seeing that He is our Lord and your Lord; that we are responsible for our doings and ye for yours; and that we are sincere (in our trust) in Him?
2:140. Or do ye say that Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob and the [twelve] Tribes were Jews or Christians?" Say: "Do ye know better than God?" Ah! who is more unjust than those who conceal the testimony they have from God? But God is NOT unaware of what ye do!
2:141. That was a people that hath departed from The Way. They shall reap the fruit of what they did, and ye of what ye do! Of their merits there is no reference in your case.
2:142. The fools among the people will say: "What hath turned them from Abraham's Sacrifice at which they were used [to quibbling]?" Say: "To God belong both East and West: He guideth whom He will to The Way that is straight (and strait)."
2:143. Thus, have We made of you a people Justly Balanced, that ye might be witnesses over the nations, and the Messenger a witness over yourselves and We appointed the Sacrifice to which thou wast used, only to test those who followed the Messenger from those who would turn on their heels (from the Faith). Indeed it was (a change) momentous, except to those guided by God. And never would God make your faith of no effect. For God is to all people most surely full of kindness, Most Merciful.
2:144. We see the turning of thy face (for guidance) to the heavens: now shall We turn thee to a Sacrifice that shall please thee? Turn thy face in the direction of the Holy Place: Wherever ye are, turn your faces in that direction. The people of The Book (Bible) know well that that is the truth from their Lord (1 kings 8:29-30; 2 Chron 3:1). Nor is God unaware of what they do.
2:145. Even if thou wert to bring to the people of The Book all the Signs (together), they would not follow thy Sacrifice nor art thou going to follow their Sacrifice, nor indeed will they follow each other's Sacrifice. If thou, after the Knowledge hath reached thee, wast to follow their (vain) desires (organized religions),-then wast thou indeed (clearly) in the wrong.
2:146. The people of The Book know this as they know their own sons; but some of them conceal the truth which they themselves know.
2:147. The Truth is from thy Lord (not from satan); so be not at all in doubt.
2:148. To each is a goal to which God turns him; then strive together (as in a race) towards all that is good. Wheresoever ye are, God will bring you together. For God hath power over all things.
2:149. From whencesoever thou startest forth, turn thy face in the direction of the Holy Place that is indeed the Truth from the Lord. And God is not unaware of what ye do.
2:150. So from whencesoever thou startest forth, turn thy face in the direction of the Holy Place (Jerusalem) and wheresoever ye are, turn your face thither: that there be no ground of dispute against you among the people, except those of them that are bent on wickedness; so fear them not, but fear Me; and that I may complete My favours on you, and ye may (consent to) be guided.
2:151. A similar (favour have ye already received) in that We have sent among you a Messenger of your own, rehearsing to you Our Signs, and sanctifying you, and instructing you in Scripture and Wisdom, and in new Knowledge.
2:152. Remember Me (God); then I will remember you. Be grateful to Me, and reject not Faith.
2:153. O ye who believe! seek help with patient Perseverance and Prayer: for God is with those who patiently persevere.
2:154. And say not of those who are slain in The Way of God: "They are dead." Nay, they are living, though ye perceive (it) not (re-incarnation).
2:155. Be sure We shall test you with something of fear and hunger, some loss in goods or lives or the fruits (of your toil), but [We] give glad tidings to those who patiently persevere,-
2:156. Who say, when afflicted with calamity: "To God we belong, and to Him is our return":-
2:157. They are those on whom (descend) blessings from God, and Mercy, and they are the ones that receive Guidance.
2:158. Behold! Safa (being born again [as your spirit-Being] - John 3:3-7) and Marwa (the Water of Life - John 4:10) are among the Symbols of God. So for those who visit The House in the Season, it is no sin in them, if their mind should compass them round (understand) at other times. And if any one obeyeth his own impulse to good,- be sure that God is He Who recogniseth and knoweth.
2:159. Those who conceal the Clear (Signs) We have sent down, and the Guidance, after We have made it clear for the people in The Book,- on them shall be God's curse (Deut. 28:15-68), and the curse of those entitled to curse,-
2:160. Except those who repent and make amends and openly declare (the Truth): to them I turn; for I am Oft-returning, Most Merciful.
2:161. Those who reject Faith, and die rejecting,- on them is God's curse, and the curse of angels, and of all mankind;
2:162. They will abide therein: their penalty will not be lightened, nor will respite be their (lot).
2:163. And your God is One God. There is no god but He, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

Sura 3:30-52
3:30. On the Day when every soul will be confronted with all the good it has done, and all the evil it has done, it will wish there were a great distance between it and its evil. But God cautions you (to remember) Himself (Mal. 4:4-6). And God is full of kindness to those that serve [only] Him."
3:31. Say: "If ye do love God, follow me: God will love you and forgive you your sins: for God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."
3:32. Say: "Obey God and His Messenger": but if they turn back, God loveth not those who reject Faith.
3:33. God did choose Adam and Noah, the family of Abraham, and the family of Amram above all people,-
3:34. Offspring, one of the other: and God heareth and knoweth all things.
3:35. Behold! A woman (Hannah - Anne who was a member of the British Royal Family) of Amram (who was a Levite) said: "O my Lord! I do dedicate unto Thee what is in my womb for Thy special service: so accept this of me: for Thou hearest and knowest all things."
3:36. When she was delivered, she said: "O my Lord! Behold! I am delivered of a female child!"- and God knew best what she brought forth- "And in no way is the male like the female. I have named her Mary, and I commend her and her offspring to Thy protection from the Evil One, the Rejected."
3:37. Right graciously did her Lord accept her: He made her grow in purity and beauty: to the care of Zacharias was she assigned. Every time that he entered (her) chamber to see her, he found her supplied with sustenance. He said: "O Mary! Whence (comes) this to you?" She said: "From God: for God provides sustenance to whom He pleases without measure."
3:38. There did Zacharias pray to his Lord, saying: "O my Lord! Grant unto me from Thee a progeny that is pure: for Thou art He that heareth prayer!"
3:39. While he was standing in prayer in the chamber, the angels called unto him: "(God) doth give thee glad tidings of John (the Baptist), witnessing the Truth of The Word from God, and (be besides) noble, chaste, and a Prophet,- of the (goodly) company of the righteous."
3:40. He said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son, seeing I am very old, and my wife is barren?" "Thus," was the answer, "Doth God accomplish what He willeth."
3:41. He said: "O my Lord! Give me a Sign!" "Thy Sign," was the answer, "Shall be that thou shalt speak to no man for three days except with signals (Luke 1:18-22). Then celebrate the praises of thy Lord again and again, and glorify Him in the evening and in the morning."
3:42. Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! God hath chosen thee and purified thee- chosen thee above the women of all nations.
3:43. O Mary! worship Thy Lord devoutly: prostrate thyself, and bow down (in prayer) with those who bow down."
3:44. This is part of the tidings of the things unseen, which We reveal unto thee (O Messenger!) by inspiration: thou wast not with them when they cast lots with arrows, as to which of them should be charged with the care of Mary: nor wast thou with them when they disputed (the point).
3:45. Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! God giveth thee glad tidings of The Word (John 1:1-5) from Him: he will be called Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to God.
3:46. He shall speak to the people in childhood (Luke 2:40-47) and in maturity. And he shall be (of the company) of the righteous."
3:47. She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: God createth what He willeth: when He hath decreed a plan, He only saith to it, 'Be,' and it is!
3:48. And God will teach him The Book (Old Covenant) and Wisdom, The Law (The Torah) and The Gospel,
3:49. And (appoint him) an Apostle to the Children of Israel, (with this message): "'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by God's leave: and I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I enliven the dead, by God's leave and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe;
3:50. (I have come to you), to affirm The Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear God, and obey me.
3:51. It is God Who is my Lord and your Lord then worship Him. This is The Way (John 14:6) that is Straight' (Matt. 7:13-14)."
3:52. When Jesus found Unbelief on their part he said: "Who will be My helpers to (the work of) God." Said the disciples: "We are God's helpers: we believe in God, and do thou bear witness that we are "True in Faith".

Mohammad (peace be upon him) was sent as a Messenger from God, just as all of the prophets before him. But His (God's) Messenger is clearly His Christ (Anointed One) as should be self-evident from the passages above taken in context, particularly the one from Sura 3.


You've cited part of a verse and left it out of context, and feel that is proof that the self-contradictory Hadith should have been written 250 years later which also contradicts the Koran/Quran? How ridiculous!

Please consider why Allah decided to mention Mohammad so infrequently in His Koran, but decided to mention Jesus -- directly or indirectly - at least 230 times. And even if we look at the references to Muhammad/Mohammad, we find instruction directing us back to the Bible which came before it, CONFIRMING The Example we should all be following is the one set by Prince Michael/Christ -- the "Unlettered Prophet", while He was here in the body of Jesus (John 14:6).

Sura 48:29. Muhammad is the Apostle of "I AM"; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other. Thou wilt see them bow and prostrate themselves (in prayer), seeking Grace from "I AM" and (His) Good Pleasure. On their faces are their marks (Rev. 7:4-9, 14:1-4) (being) the traces of their prostration (Matt. 6:5-8, Sura 7:55). This is their similitude in the Taurat (The Torah); and their similitude in The Gospel is: like a seed which sends forth its blade, then makes it strong; it then becomes thick, and it stands on its own stem, (filling) the sowers with wonder and delight. As a result, it fills the Unbelievers with rage at them. "I AM" has promised those among them who believe and do righteous deeds Forgiveness, and a great Reward.

Sura 7:157-158
7:157. Those who follow The Apostle, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (Scriptures - the Bible),- in The Law (The Torah) and The Gospel (New Testament - Covenant);- for he commands them what is just and forbids them what is evil; he allows them as lawful what is good (and pure) and prohibits them from what is bad (and impure); he releases them from their heavy burdens (Matthew 23:1-4) and from the yokes that are upon them. So it is those who believe him, honour him, help him, and follow the Light which is sent down with him,- it is they who will prosper [King of kings' Bible - John 8:3 (KJV - John 8:12)]."
7:158. Say: "O men! I am sent unto you all, as the Messenger of "I AM", to Whom belongeth the Dominion of the heavens and the Earth: there is no god but He: it is He That giveth both life and death. So believe in "I AM" and His Messenger, the Unlettered Prophet (John 7:15-19), who believeth "I AM" and His words: follow him that (so) ye may be guided (by "The Way" - John 14:6)."

John 7:15-19
7:15 And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man "Letters", having never been taught?
7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but His that sent me.
7:17 If any man will do His will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or [whether] I speak of myself.
7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh His glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.
7:19 Did not Moses give you The Law, and [yet] NONE of you keepeth The Law? Why go ye about to kill me?


John 8:3 Then spoke Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the Light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the Light of Life.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am The Way, the Truth, and the Life: NOT one man cometh unto the Father, EXCEPT by me.

John 3:19-21
3:19 And this is the condemnation, that Light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than Light, because their deeds were evil.
3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the Light, neither cometh to the Light, lest his deeds should be revealed.
3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the Light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.



And in context...

Sura 5:46-50
5:46. But why do they come to thee for decision, when they have (their own) Law (the Torah) before them?- therein is the (plain) command of "I AM"; yet even after that, they would turn away. For they are not (really) People of Faith.
5:47. It was We Who revealed The Law (to Moses): therein is Guidance and Light. By its Standard (Criterion) have been judged the Jews, by the Prophets who bowed to "I AM"'s Will; the Rabbis and the Doctors of Law: for to them was entrusted the protection of "I AM"'s Book, and they were witnesses thereto: therefore fear not men, but fear Me, and sell not My Signs for a miserable price. If any do fail to judge by (the Light of) what "I AM" hath revealed, they are (no better than) Unbelievers.
5:48. We ordained therein for them: "Life for life, eye for eye, nose for nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal." But if any one remits the retaliation by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for himself (Matt. 5:44). And if any fail to judge by (the Light of) what "I AM" hath revealed, they are (no better than) wrong-doers (and are the accomplices of the wrong-doers and equally guilty).
5:49. And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming The Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein is Guidance and Light, and confirmation of The Law that had come before him: a Guidance and a Warning to those who fear "I AM".
5:50. Let the People of the Gospel judge by what "I AM" hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the Light of) what "I AM" hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel (and are equally guilty).


Of course roughly 2 billion "Muslims" practicing what they refer to as "Islam" (with its unscriptural made-up rules, rites and rituals) proves the above statement to be a LIE.

If instead of following the traditions of men -- which make the Commandments of God of no effect -- we instead obey and follow ONLY what God has said in His Book (Acts 5:29), there would be no organized religions of any kind. God's Book includes the Old Covenant, New Covenant, Koran and THE KEY to all three, referred to as "the white stone" and "the little book" in Revelation 2:17 and 10:7-10.






what the hell are you on about? i quoted the Quran.
if you can't get a basic thing like that, you're not equipped to discuss religion. it makes sense why you follow this 'jahtruth' bollocks.
what you've quoted are not accurate quotations from the Quran or even the bible.
 






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I must have shown the solution to Daniel's 70 weeks problem over ten times already... but just as christians on this forum you are too preoccupied with your own prejudices... to recognize truths when shown even in detail.
lmao no, every answer you've given has been one bad joke after another.

literally misquoting isaiah 14...what on earth are you going to teach me?
 






Tidal

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And where does the Koran instruct muslims to burn forests?
(I hear California is currently experiencing its worst wildfires since records began)-



 






Tidal

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God is with israel against her enemies..

God may have had the Israelis backs in Old T times, but then they went and killed his son, bad call-
"How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot...it is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God" (Heb 10:29-31)

 






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Prophets of God spoke as they were moved to speak by the Spirit of God... and so it's impossible to understand the more subtile points in a prophets message unless the Spirit of God reveals it to you.

That's why having PhD in bible matters means absolutely nothing.



Within the prophet's message in this case is a description of a fallen heavenly being who would also sit on the mount of the congregation... in the sides of the north.

Well the mount of the congregation is where the israelites congregated for a thousand years... because God was there in the temple on the mount of the congregation.

Now God's temple is no more on the mount of the congregation... but there are temples there on the mount of the congregation... in the sides of the north.

Whose temples are that ?As the prophet said... a fallen heavenly being.



This should not come as a surprise to christians who are told over and again in God's writ... that a fallen angel is the god of this world in this age... until Jesus returns.

1) it's impossible to understand the more subtile points in a prophets message unless the Spirit of God reveals it to you.
in otherwords, you're free to make all kinds of sh1t up and claim the spirit of God revealed it to you
amazing.
if such was the case, why was christianity dominated by catholicism? you yourself accept that catholicism was polythiesm (eg the worship of saints)...and yet that itself was the same branch of christianity that formed your beliefs aswell as the translations of the bible.

furthermore we find there is no evidence in the NT to suggest that any random self proclaimed Christian has the holy spirit..or has the correct understanding. In Revelation 2, the holy spirit directly refers to various churches, some who were in the wrong..and warns them.

we know Jesus willr eject many. We know what it says in Jude 1. That fits you more accurately.

2) Within the prophet's message in this case is a description of a fallen heavenly being who would also sit on the mount of the congregation... in the sides of the north.

erm the chapter directly says

3 On the day the Lord gives you relief from your suffering and turmoil and from the harsh labor forced on you, 4 you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:

me: the use of 'the morning star' in the context was a reference to Wisdom, in a sarcastic tone towards the king of babylon.

you: it refers to a FALLEN HEAVENLY BEING

no, since it is clearly written about the KING OF BABYLON..saying 'you have fallen' does not refer to an angelic/heavenly being..it refers to anyone who has fallen from a high position in power.

it makes them rise from their thrones—
all those who were kings over the nations.
10 They will all respond,
they will say to you,
You also have become weak, as we are;
you have become like us.

11 All your pomp has been brought down to the grave,
along with the noise of your harps;
maggots are spread out beneath you
and worms cover you.


angels, wheather fallen or otherwise, do not go down into the grave. Humans do, because we are FLESH, of the earth.

hence it is referring to the king of babylon, fallen from his position of power

How you have fallen from heaven,
morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!

You said in your heart,
“I will ascend to the heavens;
I will raise my throne
above the stars of God;

I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon.
14 I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.”
15 But you are brought down to the realm of the dead,
to the depths of the pit.


once again a clear reference to 'MOUNT ZAPHON' and remember, the people who translated this, were CHRISTIANS...yet you're going to suggest they didnt have the holy spirit, but you did...
verse 15 is crystal clear..
'ream of the dead' is another reference to sheol/hades, the grave...and it isnt literal here either but is symbolic of how low the king of babylon has fallen.

Those who see you stare at you,
they ponder your fate:
“Is this the man who shook the earth
and made kingdoms tremble,
17 the man who made the world a wilderness,
who overthrew its cities
and would not let his captives go home?”


since when was satan a man?

Like a corpse trampled underfoot,
20 you will not join them in burial,
for you have destroyed your land
and killed your people.



the surrounding chapters of isaiah 14, reference various NATIONS and their kings..
nothing about them is supernatural and a reference to satan.

the final point is that despite knowing the above points, you chose to create a whole different style of argument
basically you saw that muslims have held power in Jerusalem longer than christianity and judaism..
and then you thought "how can i suggest muslim rule was satanic?"
"oh yeh satan wanted to occupy jerusalem and therefore he chose muslims to do it"

YEt
in Isaiah 5, Jerusalem is called GOD'S VINEYARD
I will sing for the one I love
a song about his vineyard:
My loved one had a vineyard
on a fertile hillside.

Then he looked for a crop of good grapes,
but it yielded only bad fruit.


in the parable of the tenants..Jesus specifically accuses the rabbis of failing to produce the fruit for the landowner (God)..
the point Jesus goes on to make is that after they have killed the son..God will punish them, kick them out and will give it to another people who WILL produce the fruit.


43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.


in Daniel 2, we are told about the Mountain/rock, a reference to Jesus Christ..
this rock brings the image (the beast) down.

YET which religion conquered and ended the 4 beasts/empires?
the muslim conquest of the byzantine empire inc lands like egypt..
the muslim conquest of persia
Babylon still existed under christianity, it even had churches
it ceased to exist once islam came onto the scene.

so basically muslims have inherited the true religion of Jesus and are the ones connected to him, not you.

in Revelation 12 it says
. 17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.

christians do not follow God's commands/laws
jews don't believe in Jesus
this is a reference to muslims from the lost tribes.

the lost tribes, are muslim.

Zechariah 6 tells us about the 4 chariots/angels

The first chariot had red horses, the second black, 3 the third white, and the fourth dappled—all of them powerful. 4 I asked the angel who was speaking to me, “What are these, my lord?”

5 The angel answered me, “These are the four spirits of heaven, going out from standing in the presence of the Lord of the whole world. 6 The one with the black horses is going toward the north country, the one with the white horses toward the west, and the one with the dappled horses toward the south.”

7 When the powerful horses went out, they were straining to go throughout the earth. And he said, “Go throughout the earth!” So they went throughout the earth.

8 Then he called to me, “Look, those going toward the north country have given my Spirit rest in the land of the north.”


you can cross reference the colours and the specific direction, with the huns.

There is an interesting definition of their origins that has also been proposed. Up to now it has been considered that they were called the "white" huns due to their skin colour. However this is apparently not the case, as the various Hunnic tribes had long ago divided themselves into four groups along the cardinal points, each with a specific colour. The Northern Huns hence became the "Black" Huns, the "White" Huns were the western tribes, the "Green" or "Blue" were the southern and the "Red" Huns occupied the Eastern territories. So despite being identified as fair skinned, the name itself has less to do with physical appearance and more to do with their self-devised methods of tribal affiliation.


North=black huns
West=white huns
South=Green/Blue huns
East=Red Huns


these groups, are all muslim today.

hence Revelation 12 tells us the serpent will make war on "the rest of her offspring" (that is a reference to the lost tribes..since the woman is Sarah)

in the same prophecy it references the woman fleeing to the WILDERNESS
FOR 1260 DAYS!!!!!!
6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

it was hagar who fled to the wilderness..
yet here, sarah does the same.
this is the connection between the lost tribes and islam.
 






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And where does the Koran instruct muslims to burn forests?
(I hear California is currently experiencing its worst wildfires since records began)-



do you believe this nonsense? there is no 'al qaeeda' just a fabrication...same as isis.

this is what the first caliph of islam said

O people! I charge you with ten rules; learn them well! Stop, O people, that I may give you ten rules for your guidance in the battlefield. Do not commit treachery or deviate from the right path. You must not mutilate dead bodies. Neither kill a child, nor a woman, nor an aged man. Bring no harm to the trees, nor burn them with fire, especially those which are fruitful. Slay not any of the enemy's flock, save for your food. You are likely to pass by people who have devoted their lives to monastic services; leave them alone
 






Tidal

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there is no 'al qaeeda' just a fabrication...same as isis.

this is what the first caliph of islam said

O people! I charge you with ten rules; learn them well! Stop, O people, that I may give you ten rules for your guidance in the battlefield. Do not commit treachery or deviate from the right path. You must not mutilate dead bodies. Neither kill a child, nor a woman, nor an aged man. Bring no harm to the trees, nor burn them with fire, especially those which are fruitful. Slay not any of the enemy's flock, save for your food. You are likely to pass by people who have devoted their lives to monastic services; leave them alone

If there's no Al-Qaeda, who did 9/11, Mary Poppins?.. :p
As for "the First Caliph of Islam", I've never heard of him, is his quote in the Koran?
 






TokiEl

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God may have had the Israelis backs in Old T times, but then they went and killed his son, bad call-
"How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot...it is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God" (Heb 10:29-31)

Before the creation of the world... it was decided that the Son of God would pay the price for our sins.

So we can repent and be forgiven...


God blinded the jews because of their sins so they should kill His Son...and God went medieval on the jews as everybody knows.
 






TokiEl

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1) it's impossible to understand the more subtile points in a prophets message unless the Spirit of God reveals it to you.
in otherwords, you're free to make all kinds of sh1t up and claim the spirit of God revealed it to you
amazing.
If you would sit down shut up and pay attention... you would see it when shown.

But you're too preoccupied with your own prejudices to sit down shut up and pay attention.
 






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