What does the Koran actually say about prayer?

A Freeman

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@A Freeman
You always attempt to convince the Muslims that they must accept the Bible as the word of God, but I have never once seen you try to convince Christians that the Quran is the word of God. Why is that? Perhaps because Christians will see that the Quran and the Bible can never be reconciled. If you accept the Quran, you must reject the Bible. And if you accept the Bible, you must reject the Quran.
You're either being intentionally deceitful, or you are actually that sound asleep. Which is it please? Throughout this forum, citations from the Koran (Quran) have been used repeatedly, to encourage everyone -- including and in particular "Christians" -- to read the Koran. This thread itself proves what you've (falsely) claimed to be untrue.

No rationally-minded human+Being could possibly read the HUNDREDS and HUNDREDS of Suras that have been cited, many within this thread, and still believe the LIE that the Bible cannot be reconciled with the Koran, and vice-versa, particularly given our Creator (Allah, the "I AM") has said so, and told is IN THE KORAN, that all three MUST reconcile, as they are all three a PROMISE (COVENANT) in TRUTH from Allah

Sura 9:111. "I AM" hath purchased from the Believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is The Garden (of Bliss): they fight in His Cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in Truth, through The Law (The Torah), The Gospel (New Testament/Covenant), and The Koran: and who is more faithful to His Covenant (in the Bible) than "I AM"? Then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded (to fulfill The Covenant of "I AM" written in the Bible): that is the achievement supreme.

The word "Satan" is Hebrew and means "the Opposer" (God's Adversary). When someone argues against God (opposes Him), they are very obviously working for Satan. And those who do such things will find themselves in The Fire, as it says repeatedly throughout the Bible and Koran (Quran).

Learn to destroy your ego (which Satan controls and gets you to argue against God, Whom you claim to be in submission to) or it will destroy you (the REAL you, the spirit-Being/Soul within).

Peace be upon you.
 






Tidal

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..The New Testament was compiled over hundreds of years. No two pages of the 6,000 Greek manuscripts of the New Testament are the same..

Steady on, two of the gospel-writers were actual disciples, and Paul who wrote big chunks of the NT actually MET the risen Jesus, you can't get better men-on-the-spot street cred than that..:)
 






A Freeman

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He wasn't the literal son of God
According to God Himself, Christ (the Spirit-Being Who incarnated Christ) is His LITERAL, SPIRITUAL Son.

Matthew 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

He was the symbolic, metaphorical son of God which was just a term used to describe the relationship between God and the Logos.
No, Prince Michael/Christ is the LITERAL Firstborn/First-created Son of God, as God Himself has said and as is repeated throughout Scripture. It is Jesus, the human son of the virgin body of Mary that is not God's Spiritual son. And anyone who claims otherwise is an anti-Christ, by definition.

1 John 2:22-23
2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that the Christ was incarnated in Jesus? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].

Jesus was an incarnation of the Logos.
Or, more accurately put, The Word (Logos) was made flesh (incarnated) into Jesus, exactly as God said.

John 1:1-14
1:1 In the Beginning was the Word (Truth - in Hebrew is Nazir), and the Truth was with God (NOT with Lucifer/Satan the Devil), and the Word was God.
1:2 The same was in the Beginning with God.
1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
1:4 In Him was Life; and the Life was the Light of men.
1:5 And the Light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
1:6 There was a man sent from God, whose name [was] John.
1:7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all [men] through the Light might believe.
1:8 He was not that Light, but [was sent] to bear witness of that Light.
1:9 [That] was the True Light, which Lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world (humans) knew him not (could not SEE him inside the body of Jesus).
1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the (adopted) sons of God, [even] to them that believe in his identity:
1:13 Who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man (human), but of God (Who is Spirit).
1:14 And the Word was made flesh (incarnated), and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only incarnated of the Father) full of Grace and Truth (Nazir in Hebrew).

Sura 2:87-88
2:87. We gave Moses The Book (The Torah) and followed him up with a succession of Apostles; We gave Jesus the son of Mary Clear (Signs) and strengthened him with the Holy Spirit (Christ). Is it that whenever there comes to you an Apostle with what ye yourselves desire not, ye are puffed up with pride?- Some ye called impostors, and others ye slay!
2:88. They say, "Our hearts (Jere. 17:9) are the wrappings (which preserve God's Word: we need no more)." Nay, The "I AM"'s curse is on them for their blasphemy: Little it is that they believe.

John 14:15-19 (Christ is the Holy Spirit from God)
14:15 If ye love me, KEEP my COMMANDments.
14:16 And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
14:17 [Even] the Spirit of Truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I Live, ye shall live also.


I'm right and you're wrong..the end. You're too ignorant of your own religion. Itsn't my fault.
As above please. It's actually you are in the wrong, and ignorant of The Word of God, because of your own evil organized religion.
 






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You're either being intentionally deceitful, or you are actually that sound asleep. Which is it please? Throughout this forum, citations from the Koran (Quran) have been used repeatedly, to encourage everyone -- including and in particular "Christians" -- to read the Koran. This thread itself proves what you've (falsely) claimed to be untrue.

No rationally-minded human+Being could possibly read the HUNDREDS and HUNDREDS of Suras that have been cited, many within this thread, and still believe the LIE that the Bible cannot be reconciled with the Koran, and vice-versa, particularly given our Creator (Allah, the "I AM") has said so, and told is IN THE KORAN, that all three MUST reconcile, as they are all three a PROMISE (COVENANT) in TRUTH from Allah

Sura 9:111. "I AM" hath purchased from the Believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is The Garden (of Bliss): they fight in His Cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in Truth, through The Law (The Torah), The Gospel (New Testament/Covenant), and The Koran: and who is more faithful to His Covenant (in the Bible) than "I AM"? Then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded (to fulfill The Covenant of "I AM" written in the Bible): that is the achievement supreme.

The word "Satan" is Hebrew and means "the Opposer" (God's Adversary). When someone argues against God (opposes Him), they are very obviously working for Satan. And those who do such things will find themselves in The Fire, as it says repeatedly throughout the Bible and Koran (Quran).

Learn to destroy your ego (which Satan controls and gets you to argue against God, Whom you claim to be in submission to) or it will destroy you (the REAL you, the spirit-Being/Soul within).

Peace be upon you.
The Quran and Bible contradict each other. They cannot be reconciled.

- In the Bible, Eve tempts Adam to eat from the tree, and God condemns them and their progeny to a life of pain and misery on Earth for their sin. There is no such account in the Quran. In the Quran God intended to put Adam and Eve on Earth before they had committed any sin. They are forgiven by God after they repent to him. Adam and Eve bore equal responsibility for their sin, nor do their progeny bear the responsibility of their sin.
- In the New Testament, man is declared inherently evil and wicked. In the Quran, God created man on the 'fitrah': the natural, inborn disposition towards the recognition of God, and towards the love of goodness.
- The Bible alleges that the Prophets committed egregious sins such as adultery and murder (Lot's daughters commit incest, David commits adultery and kills Bathsheba's husband). There are no such accounts in the Quran: the Prophets and Messengers declare the Oneness of God (no partner, no second, no offspring), and disassociate themselves from the disbelief of their misguided people
- Christians say that Jesus was the son of God, or God himself as part of the trinity. The Quran rejects this outright as a monstrous supposition, and clear idolatry.
- The Bible alleges that Jesus was crucified, and rose from the dead. The Quran refutes these claims: Jesus was not crucified, but it was made to appear to them as such, and he was raised up to God.
- The Bible says that that the sacrificial son was Isaac. The Quran clearly states that it was Ishmael.
- Christians say that one can only attain salvation by faith; our works are meaningless. The Quran emphatically states that after faith, works are the most important precondition for salvation: every man will be recompensed for his deeds in kind, and God will not wrong them.

If they can be reconciled, please show me where the Quran accepts original sin, the divinity of Christ and his progeneration, the crucifixion, resurrection, salvation by faith alone, Isaac as the sacrificial son, man being inherently wicked, and the evil deeds of Prophets (Lot, David, Solomon, Jacob).

The truth is that your doctrine is idolatry. God begot no son, in any sense of the word, either spiritually or literally.
 






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You're either being intentionally deceitful, or you are actually that sound asleep. Which is it please? Throughout this forum, citations from the Koran (Quran) have been used repeatedly, to encourage everyone -- including and in particular "Christians" -- to read the Koran. This thread itself proves what you've (falsely) claimed to be untrue.

No rationally-minded human+Being could possibly read the HUNDREDS and HUNDREDS of Suras that have been cited, many within this thread, and still believe the LIE that the Bible cannot be reconciled with the Koran, and vice-versa, particularly given our Creator (Allah, the "I AM") has said so, and told is IN THE KORAN, that all three MUST reconcile, as they are all three a PROMISE (COVENANT) in TRUTH from Allah

Sura 9:111. "I AM" hath purchased from the Believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is The Garden (of Bliss): they fight in His Cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in Truth, through The Law (The Torah), The Gospel (New Testament/Covenant), and The Koran: and who is more faithful to His Covenant (in the Bible) than "I AM"? Then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded (to fulfill The Covenant of "I AM" written in the Bible): that is the achievement supreme.

The word "Satan" is Hebrew and means "the Opposer" (God's Adversary). When someone argues against God (opposes Him), they are very obviously working for Satan. And those who do such things will find themselves in The Fire, as it says repeatedly throughout the Bible and Koran (Quran).

Learn to destroy your ego (which Satan controls and gets you to argue against God, Whom you claim to be in submission to) or it will destroy you (the REAL you, the spirit-Being/Soul within).

Peace be upon you.
Yet you have never called on them outright. You have never made a thread denouncing Christians' rejection of the Quran. And yet you have done so several times for Muslims, even going so far as to claim that they are not even Muslim (see thread 'Are you a REAL Muslim?'). To Christians, you have only quoted Quran verses hidden amidst the paragraphs of Bible verses. And these Quran verses are filled with interpolations and parentheses; they are not even quoted from the original Yusuf Ali. Nowehere did Yusuf Ali include 'I AM' and citations of Bible verses.
 






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So our ALL-POWERFUL Creator gave us the Koran (Quran) to be the Gospel of UNITY/BROTHERHOOD, and had it translated into other languages (including English) only to decide it could only be understood by Arab-speaking people? How ridiculous!


And the "Injeel", i.e. the Gospel (Good News - News from God) that was revealed to Jesus was recorded in the Gospel accounts according to Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and Thomas, in much the same way others recorded what was revealed to Muhammad. There is also Christ's Revelation to John, where we do find reference to the mystery of God being revealed in the Last Days, by the 7th Angel - The Messiah/Christ/Mahdi.

Further, in the Koran (Quran), where Christ is referenced at least 230 times and His followers are held up as SUPERIOR to the faithless who mock Him, it CONFIRMS the prophecies in the Bible of His Second Coming (Sura 43:61). What would you expect the Anointed/Guided One to do during His Second Coming other than UNITE all TRUE Believers (those who are "True in Faith") by sorting out the Scriptures? Do you really believe that our ALL-POWERFUL Creator would allow ANYONE other than His Anointed/Guided One to publish His Word in a Bible entitled The King of kings' Bible, which contains the Old Covenant, New Covenant AND the Koran?

Sura 9:111. "I AM" hath purchased from the Believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the Garden (of Bliss): they fight in His Cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in Truth, through The Law (Torah), the Gospel (New Testament/Covenant), and the Koran: and who is more faithful to His Covenant (in the Bible) than "I AM"? Then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded (to fulfill The Covenant of "I AM" written in the Bible): that is the achievement supreme.


https://carm.org/manuscript-evidence

https://www.toughquestionsanswered.org/2012/12/11/how-do-other-ancient-texts-compare-to-the-new-testament/



Both of these additions, along with the additions made to Matthew 28:19, have all been discussed here in detail, and corrected in the King of kings' Bible.

King of kings' Bible - 1 John 5:6-8 (the trinitarian wording which was added has been removed)
5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, [even] Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is Truth.
5:7 For there are three that bear record,
5:8 The Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

King of kings' Bible - John 7:53-:11 (the story of the adulterous woman which was added has been removed)
7:53 And every man went unto his own house.
8:1 Jesus went unto the Mount of Olives.
8:2 And early in the morning he came again into The Temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.
8:3 Then spoke Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the Light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the Light of Life.
8:4 The politicians therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.
8:5 Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, [yet] my record is true: for I know whence I came, and where I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and where I go.
8:6 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
8:7 And yet if I judge, my Judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.
8:8 It is also written in your Law, that the testimony of two men is true.
8:9 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
8:10 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known my Father, ye should have known me also.
8:11 These words spoke Jesus in the treasury, as he taught in The Temple: and no man laid hands on him; for his hour was not yet come.
8:12 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: where I go, ye cannot come.

King of kings' Bible - Matthew 28:19-20
28:19 Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them with the Holy Spirit: in my name (The Saviour),
28:20 Instructing them to observe (and DO) all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, [even] unto the end of the world (age). Amen.

Also, the alterations to the original Koran (Quran) have likewise been corrected, e.g. the substitution of Ishmael for Isaac in Sura 2:125 and 2:127.

Sura 2:125-127
2:125. Remember We made The House a place of assembly for men and a place of safety and take ye The Station of Abraham (Mt. Moriah - Gen. 22:2) as a place of prayer and We Covenanted with Abraham and Isaac (Gen. 17:21), that they should sanctify My House for those who compass it round, or use it as a retreat, or bow, or prostrate themselves (there, in prayer).
2:126. And remember Abraham said: "My Lord, make this a City of PEACE (Jeru-SALEM in Hebrew), and feed its people with fruits,- such of them as believe God and in the Last Day." He said: "(Yea), and such as reject Faith,- for a while will I grant them their pleasure, but will soon drive them to the torment of Fire,- an evil destination (indeed)!"
2:127. And remember Abraham and Isaac (Gen. 17:21, 22:2; Sura 37:101-102, 112-113) raised the foundations of The House (with this prayer): "Our Lord! Accept (this service) from us: For Thou art the All-Hearing, the All-Knowing.

The Bible and Koran, which are the Holy, Inspired Word of God, have built-in error correction, as explained in both The Law and in the Book of Enoch (Idris), as has already been shared several times. Simply put, ALL Scripture MUST agree with itself, and when humans try to tamper with the Word of God, it sticks out as if it were written in different color ink. Once it is seen that something doesn't agree, e.g. the Johannine Comma that you mentioned, it prompts further investigation.

So how do we know that the Koran was altered by the substitution of Ishmael for Isaac? Because it not only doesn't agree with the Bible which came before it, which the Koran was sent to CONFIRM, but it also contradicts the Koran itself.

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

THE GOOD NEWS OF A BOY
(PROOF that Abraham offered ISAAC)

Sura 37:101 And We gave Abraham the "good news" of a boy ready to suffer and forbear (through the angel messengers We sent to him).

Sura 37:102 Then, when the boy reached the age of serious work with him Abraham said, "O my son! I see in vision that I offer thee in sacrifice."

Sura 37:112 And We gave him the "good news" of Isaac - a prophet - one of the righteous (through the angel messengers We sent to him).

Sura 37:113 We blessed Abraham and Isaac.

Sura 6:84 And We gave Abraham Isaac and Jacob: all three We guided aright.

Sura 38:45-46 And commemorate Our servants Abraham, Isaac (not Ishmael), and Jacob, possessors of Power and Vision. Verily did We choose them for a special purpose - proclaiming the Message of the Hereafter. They were in Our sight, truly, of the company of the Elect and the good.

Sura 11:71 And We gave Abraham the glad tidings ("good news") of Isaac and after him Jacob / Israel (the son of Isaac).

Sura 15:54 "Good news" of a son.

Sura 51:28 Glad tidings ("good news") of a son (Isaac - "laughter" in Hebrew) and Sarah laughed being 90 years old (the word Isaac means laughter and because Sarah laughed the child was named "laughter" - Isaac in Hebrew).

We gave the "good news" means "news from God" via an angel messenger. No angel was ever sent to Abraham to announce the birth of Ishmael and this is born-out by all of the Holy Scriptures. He was born because of Sarai (Sarah) not because of God and was born to an Egyptian surrogate-mother, called Hagar.

All of the references of "good news" refer to Isaac and not to Ishmael, proving that the Meccans changed the name Isaac for Ishmael in Sura 2:125 and 127.

However Ishmael was blessed by God, later, when Abraham, who loved him, asked God to let Ishmael live before God (Genesis 17:18-20).


The "Codex Vaticanus" is another sham perpetrated by the Vatican, to promote their evil organized religion and try to discredit the Bible for their master: Satan/the Destroyer, who runs the Roman Catholic church through his crypto-counterfeit Jewish Jesuits and their pope, referred to in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 as "the son of the destroyer". It is NOT "one of the earliest surviving manuscripts of the NT".

Of course the RCC was also instrumental in setting up the organized religion known as "Islam" too. Muhammad married Khadija, who was a Roman Catholic, when he was 25 and she was 40. Her cousin was called Waraquah and was also a Roman Catholic Meccan, working for the Vatican.


Isn't Allah's Word good enough for you? Do you honestly believe that our ALL-POWERFUL Creator would instruct us in His Koran to read The Law and the Gospel, and somehow not preserve them from corruption, as He promised to do?


Why do you feel the need to tell lies about the Word of God, which the Koran was sent to CONFIRM? And who do you think is conning you into doing that please? It most certainly isn't Allah.


More deceitful translations and cherry-picking. From the King of kings' Bible, based upon the translation of the Koran (Qur-ân), into English, done by Mr. Abdullah Yusuf Ali (third edition 1938), which is widely accepted, by English-speaking Arabic people, as being the best translation (until The King of kings’ Bible was completed).

Sura 15:9-11
15:9. We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).
15:10. We did send Apostles BEFORE thee amongst the religious sects (John 17:21; Sura 6:159) of old:
15:11. But never came an Apostle to them but they mocked him.

The passage above is of course referring to ALL of God's Word, not just the Koran.
No, Jesus is mentioned only 34 times: 26 times as 'Isa' and 8 times as 'the messiah'.

So in your King of Kings 'Koran', in ayahs 2:125 and 2:127 you changed the name of the sacrificial son from Ishmael to Isaac. o_O You have changed the word of God. Subhanallah.

Khadija (may Allah be pleased with her) was a Roman Catholic? No. She was a Muslim.
 






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According to God Himself, Christ (the Spirit-Being Who incarnated Christ) is His LITERAL, SPIRITUAL Son.

Matthew 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.


No, Prince Michael/Christ is the LITERAL Firstborn/First-created Son of God, as God Himself has said and as is repeated throughout Scripture. It is Jesus, the human son of the virgin body of Mary that is not God's Spiritual son. And anyone who claims otherwise is an anti-Christ, by definition.

1 John 2:22-23
2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that the Christ was incarnated in Jesus? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].


Or, more accurately put, The Word (Logos) was made flesh (incarnated) into Jesus, exactly as God said.

John 1:1-14
1:1 In the Beginning was the Word (Truth - in Hebrew is Nazir), and the Truth was with God (NOT with Lucifer/Satan the Devil), and the Word was God.
1:2 The same was in the Beginning with God.
1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
1:4 In Him was Life; and the Life was the Light of men.
1:5 And the Light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
1:6 There was a man sent from God, whose name [was] John.
1:7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all [men] through the Light might believe.
1:8 He was not that Light, but [was sent] to bear witness of that Light.
1:9 [That] was the True Light, which Lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world (humans) knew him not (could not SEE him inside the body of Jesus).
1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the (adopted) sons of God, [even] to them that believe in his identity:
1:13 Who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man (human), but of God (Who is Spirit).
1:14 And the Word was made flesh (incarnated), and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only incarnated of the Father) full of Grace and Truth (Nazir in Hebrew).

Sura 2:87-88
2:87. We gave Moses The Book (The Torah) and followed him up with a succession of Apostles; We gave Jesus the son of Mary Clear (Signs) and strengthened him with the Holy Spirit (Christ). Is it that whenever there comes to you an Apostle with what ye yourselves desire not, ye are puffed up with pride?- Some ye called impostors, and others ye slay!
2:88. They say, "Our hearts (Jere. 17:9) are the wrappings (which preserve God's Word: we need no more)." Nay, The "I AM"'s curse is on them for their blasphemy: Little it is that they believe.

John 14:15-19 (Christ is the Holy Spirit from God)
14:15 If ye love me, KEEP my COMMANDments.
14:16 And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
14:17 [Even] the Spirit of Truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I Live, ye shall live also.



As above please. It's actually you are in the wrong, and ignorant of The Word of God, because of your own evil organized religion.

here's the thing, i honestly don't want to be a pr1ck here, but i dont agree with a thing you say because it's all just nonsense. you're part of that jahtruth stuff, i know very little about that but have seen the way you blatantly make up quotes and don't know the difference between Quran and hadith.

still i'll answer you on this

1) the son, is not a literal term at all. it is just the metaphorical and symbolice use of the term 'ben elohim' but this time it was applied to a particular messianic archetype..the LOGOS/incarnation.

2) the logos is the primary matter..the all important one. Jesus being the incarnation of the logos.
i believe the logos is the universal consciousness. It's called by various names. vishnu, the primordial waters, the primordial ink, the kalam, the image, the ruh-e-azam (the great spirit).

the fact is the Quran and hadith refer to Jesus as 'His Word'.
islam does not use judaic terminology like 'the son'

in the bible, God also said ISRAEL was 'my first born'
such language is peculiar to judaism..and jews never took that literally.
the roman pagans took it literally..and that is what christians are, pagans.
 






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Logic it out mate, Jesus blew people's socks off with his miracles because the awesome power of God his father was flowing through him, heck not even David Blaine could do that stuff, that's why a kid from a carpenter's shop in a tiny village went on to rule the world..:)

Jesus said- "Even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father." (John 10:38 )

The 37 MIRACLES OF JESUS http://www.bcbsr.com/survey/jmrcls.html
Bringing little girl back to life
Bringing widows son back to life
Stilling the storm
Feeding 4000
Walking on sea
Feeding 5000
Coin in fishes mouth
Withering fig tree
Big catch of fish
Water into wine
Another big fish catch
Healing leper
Healing Centurions servant
Healing Peters mother-in-law
Healing sick at evening
Healing paralysed man
Healing haemorraging woman
Healing two blind men
Healing mans withered hand
Healing Canaanite womans daughter
Healing boy with seizures
Healing blind man
Healing deaf and dumb man
Healing another blind man
Healing crippled woman
Healing man with dropsy
Healing 10 lepers
Restoring a cut-off ear
Healing noblemans sons fever
Healing crippled man at Bethesda
Healing a born-blind man
Casting out demons into pigs
Curing a mute lunatic
Casting out dirty spirit
Curing a possessed blind-dumb man
Appeared to his followers after his death
Bringing Lazarus back to life

"Come on out of there mate"
??
no idea what point you were making.
 






Tidal

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??no idea what point you were making.

The point is that Jesus did stuff that no other prophet or mystic or founder of other religions could do, in fact they're all corpses in boxes somewhere but Jesus is not, spot the difference?
So my money is on JC to get us off this rock because he's a surefire bet, right Kid?

"Right"
 






A Freeman

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here's the thing, i honestly don't want to be a pr1ck here, but i dont agree with a thing you say because it's all just nonsense. you're part of that jahtruth stuff, i know very little about that but have seen the way you blatantly make up quotes and don't know the difference between Quran and hadith.
You're either incapable of being honest with yourself and others or you are unwilling to do so.

No quotes have been made up. And your accusation about not knowing the difference between the Koran (Quran) and the Hadith is not only without merit, but hypocritical, as was pointed out to you previously.

still i'll answer you on this

1) the son, is not a literal term at all. it is just the metaphorical and symbolice use of the term 'ben elohim' but this time it was applied to a particular messianic archetype..the LOGOS/incarnation.

2) the logos is the primary matter..the all important one. Jesus being the incarnation of the logos.
i believe the logos is the universal consciousness. It's called by various names. vishnu, the primordial waters, the primordial ink, the kalam, the image, the ruh-e-azam (the great spirit).
Of course the term is literal; God says it is in His Word (the Bible). It just isn't speaking of a human son. Repeating your mistaken beliefs doesn't make them true. The very Word (Logos) that your "self" claims knows proves you to be in error.

The Logos is The Word of God. The Word of God is the Truth. God's Message is, and always has been, and ever will be the Truth.

It has come to us in many forms:
Telepathically, through prayer/conversation with God;
Verbally, through His Angels/Sons and through the Prophets;
In written form either from The Law and/or from the Prophets, Disciples, Apostles and Messengers of God; and
As THE flesh and blood Example of the human+Being we know as Jesus+Christ. The Word made flesh.

the fact is the Quran and hadith refer to Jesus as 'His Word'.
islam does not use judaic terminology like 'the son'
And yet the Koran (Quran) instructs its readers to read the Bible, and to learn The Way (John 14:6) that is Straight (Matt. 7:13-14) from Christ, Who came with Clear Signs.

Sura 43:61-64
43:61. And (Christ the Mahdi) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) The Hour (of Judgment): therefore have no doubt about The (Hour), but follow ye Me: this is The Straight Way.
43:62. Let not the Evil One hinder you: for he is to you an enemy avowed.
43:63. When Jesus came with Clear Signs, he said: "Now have I come to you with Wisdom, and in order to make clear to you some of the (points) on which ye dispute: therefore fear "I AM" and obey me.
43:64. For "I AM", He is my Lord and your Lord (John 20:17): so worship ye Him (Matthew 5:48): this is The Straight Way."

Sura 46:30. They said, "O our people! We have heard a Book revealed after Moses, confirming what came before it: IT guides (men) to the Truth and to The Straight Way.

in the bible, God also said ISRAEL was 'my first born'
such language is peculiar to judaism..and jews never took that literally.
the roman pagans took it literally..and that is what christians are, pagans.
Regarding the Israelites (not the "Jews" ), who God considers to be the firstborn among all the nations of the earth:

Deuteronomy 14:1-2
14:1 Ye [are] the children of the "I AM" your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead.
14:2 For thou [art] an holy people unto the "I AM" thy God, and the "I AM" hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto Himself, above all the nations that [are] upon the earth.
 






Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
3,013
The point is that Jesus did stuff that no other prophet or mystic or founder of other religions could do, in fact they're all corpses in boxes somewhere but Jesus is not, spot the difference?
So my money is on JC to get us off this rock because he's a surefire bet, right Kid?

"Right"
1) muslims believe in Jesus, accurately, as the WORD of God.
we just dont use the term 'son of God' outside it's original judaic vs hellenism context..
you dont even know wtf hellenism was esp in a jewish context, what the logos is, who philo was, who plotinus was..who are you to tell me anything lol?

these ideas sprang up in the middle east, from egypt to india..and those are the places muslims reside today...hence islam is closer to the original truth..whilst you are into your white pagan mangod shit, just like that stupid image you posted...

2) when muslims think of the second coming of Jesus, they dont think of 'miracles' they think of 'Jesus killing dajjal, the false messiah'
when roman pagans think of Jesus, they think 'miracles' 'the heavens opening up' etc..
and all that does is push you further closer to the false messiah foretold in Revelation.

Jesus himself said 'only a wicked nations seeks MIRACLES'
Jesus ONLY said that bit about 'look at my miracles' to a jewish audience who were rejecting him

he's like "since you don tbelieve me, you cant deny my miracles, since that IS what you DO believe in"

3) God could grant anyone superpowers ffs...
Jesus himself told his disciples "you will do more than this" so clearly the disciples did far more than even Jesus did..
the miracles attributed to the early christians, are many..
and islam respects them
in fact the Quran has a chapter named after the 7 sleepers of the cave...
Surah Kahf.

however, where you fail bigtime is that you know nothing of islam, of awliya, or karamats...
the concept of fana, the concept of barzakh and martydom

when we die, we are bound to Barzakh/hades/sheol, because of our carnal attachments to this world.
when a person 'dies for the sake of Allah', that person dies to the world, breaks off his/her carnal attachments
those people are LIVING not dead...and this is a big belief in islam.
hence in the Quran

Think not of those who are slain in Allah's way as dead. Nay, they live, finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord;


there is not a topic you can bring up, i/we dont already know better than you.
even where it concerns the origins of christianity, im way ahead of you.

you can stick to your pagan white mangod though...
in my understanding the LOGOS is nothing on it's own..it is only the primordial power that animates it.....
and hence 'the invisible Father reveals Himself THROUGH THE SON'
'the Son can do NOTHING on his own'

even what you quoted before in John 10, Jesus says
29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand.

sure, Jesus said 'i and the Father are One' but in the context that is not literal..
otherwise there would be no seperation at all and Jesus would not say 'My Father, who has given them to me'

yet you believe in that third rate weak dark ages doctrine about a white mangod who is 'co equal' with the Father in Godhead.
how the hell did christianity of this variety even come to be? it shows that roman pagans were by far the dumbest of humans.

Jesus: The Father, He gave me everything, i can't do anything on my own
You: Jesus, YOU ARE GODDDD!!!
 






Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
3,013
You're either incapable of being honest with yourself and others or you are unwilling to do so.

No quotes have been made up. And your accusation about not knowing the difference between the Koran (Quran) and the Hadith is not only without merit, but hypocritical, as was pointed out to you previously.


Of course the term is literal; God says it is in His Word (the Bible). It just isn't speaking of a human son. Repeating your mistaken beliefs doesn't make them true. The very Word (Logos) that your "self" claims knows proves you to be in error.

The Logos is The Word of God. The Word of God is the Truth. God's Message is, and always has been, and ever will be the Truth.

It has come to us in many forms:
Telepathically, through prayer/conversation with God;
Verbally, through His Angels/Sons and through the Prophets;
In written form either from The Law and/or from the Prophets, Disciples, Apostles and Messengers of God; and
As THE flesh and blood Example of the human+Being we know as Jesus+Christ. The Word made flesh.


And yet the Koran (Quran) instructs its readers to read the Bible, and to learn The Way (John 14:6) that is Straight (Matt. 7:13-14) from Christ, Who came with Clear Signs.

Sura 43:61-64
43:61. And (Christ the Mahdi) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) The Hour (of Judgment): therefore have no doubt about The (Hour), but follow ye Me: this is The Straight Way.
43:62. Let not the Evil One hinder you: for he is to you an enemy avowed.
43:63. When Jesus came with Clear Signs, he said: "Now have I come to you with Wisdom, and in order to make clear to you some of the (points) on which ye dispute: therefore fear "I AM" and obey me.
43:64. For "I AM", He is my Lord and your Lord (John 20:17): so worship ye Him (Matthew 5:48): this is The Straight Way."

Sura 46:30. They said, "O our people! We have heard a Book revealed after Moses, confirming what came before it: IT guides (men) to the Truth and to The Straight Way.


Regarding the Israelites (not the "Jews" ), who God considers to be the firstborn among all the nations of the earth:

Deuteronomy 14:1-2
14:1 Ye [are] the children of the "I AM" your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead.
14:2 For thou [art] an holy people unto the "I AM" thy God, and the "I AM" hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto Himself, above all the nations that [are] upon the earth.

1) you say no quotes have been made up...
yet you have done this
And (Christ the Mahdi)

the mahdi is not Christ, they are different figures. The mahdi will be the final Caliph and the last of the 12 caliphs of Quraysh, a prophecy that goes all the way back to Genesis, the 12 princes.
look how accurate it was..
a Caliph is a vicegerent, a prince...not a king.
Christ literally means 'annointed one' (a king) and Mahdi is a prince/caliph...how can they be the same?
Christ is jewish...Mahdi is a bloodline decendant of Mohammad.

also, it doesnt say 'I AM' since that is Yahweh...and the Quran doesnt use that name.

2)

Surah 43, see what you wrote and compare with

61.And indeed, Jesus will be [a sign for] knowledge of the Hour, so be not in doubt of it, and follow Me. This is a straight path.
62.And never let Satan avert you. Indeed, he is to you a clear enemy.
63.And when Jesus brought clear proofs, he said, "I have come to you with wisdom and to make clear to you some of that over which you differ, so fear Allah and obey me.
64.Indeed, Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. This is a straight path."
65.But the denominations from among them differed [and separated], so woe to those who have wronged from the punishment of a painful Day.

you changed this to
this is The Straight Way.

here let me just show you how this further breaks down


"a straight way", transliteration
hatha siratun mustaqeemun

"THE straight way"
Guide us to the straight way.
(سورة الفاتحة, Al-Faatiha, Chapter #1, Verse #6)
alssirata almustaqeema


it's not even like you didnt know this, you did it on purpose...but the fact you thought you could do it with me?


3) not that i even had a problem with the 'Gospel' or indeed the 'new testament'
not that i had a problem with the path of Jesus being 'THE straight way' or 'a straight way'
the problem i have is that Jesus had his religion..and then this roman pagan crap came along and made it into a white mangod superman type figure
i dont believe in that shite...

im putting you on ignore, you've let yourself down...embarassed yourself but lucky for you, most people on here are just as bad as you..
 






Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
3,013
the LOGOS to me, is kind of like a prism, which on it's own is transparent..but the light, for want of a better term 'animates it'
the prism itself reveals the various aspects we know of as God...hence 'the Father reveals Himself through the Son'
furthermore, with Jesus being the incarnation of the logos, it is a unique level for Jesus, but he is not 'God'
a vehicle of God's Immanence through one individual, sure..but then again God is supposed to be Immanent in ALL things..and that was the biggest reason Jesus came, to reveal people that aspect of God

instead they made a white mangod lol.

stupid people.
 






billy t

Established
Joined
Aug 2, 2020
Messages
130
The Bible encourages killing woman children and infants. Alhamdullilah the Qur'aan is the word of God and does on not encourage such atrocities,

"Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.'"

1 Samuel: 15.3
 






Joined
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Messages
3,013
If that's so, why don't muslims become Christians?..:p
the most authentic version of the trinity, the one that's actually theologically accurate
is all over the Quran, all over islam.

Bismillah irRahman IrRaheem
that is, God's Essence, His attribute of Mercy expressed on the macrocosmic level (the Son) and on the microcosmic level (the Holy spirit).

we believe in Jesus as the messiah and the Word of Allah.
Believe in his second coming, believe he's killing the false messiah....
but the reason for his return it not merely about killing a false messiah, it is deeper than that...a lot richer in content.

it's like this
were it not for Jesus, the gentiles would not be reckoned, right? so the whole story of the gentiles has to be complete before Jesus can return to unite everyone and rule the world.

so the gentiles must go through the same process as the israelites/jews.
the gentiles under authentic christianity were like the Patriarchs. they were under God's grace, righteous by faith.
God saw fit to give the israelites the law of Moses...and that also is symbolic of islam given the israelites had to wander in the wilderness inc going to mecca for 38 yrs, of the 40 yrs in the wilderness. 40 is the age prophet Mohammad was when revelation came to him. it's all part of a story.
God saw fit to give the israelites this law...when they were already under faith. Why is that? its because as the NT itself it tells us that they had become faithless in egypt.

this same thing happened to the gentiles, they lose the way in Rome...became pagan and lost.
so God had to send another Moses, but he couldnt be jewish after Jesus, he had to be gentile. it stands to reason perfectly that this prophet had to be an ishmaelite given the way that would unite the promises in Genesis.

the other problem is that the gifts that came from the system of Faith, ceased to exist.
it's like this

paul argued that the circumcision, a symbol of the spiritual cutting of the flesh...was a DEAD symbol.
the circumcision used to be a living symbol, when it was given..but it bexcame a dead symbol eventually because people who were circumcised were still sinful. This suggests this metaphysical symbol, the cutting of the flesh, no longer holds any power.
Paul then went on to argue that the new symbol was the CROSS.
im all with that, upto that point..
the problem is this, the cross is a much more powerful symbol than circumcision. it means the DEATH of the flesh (our carnal nature).
My argument, using paul's logic is that the cross became a DEAD symbol...
instead of the cross representing spiritual LIFE, it became a symbol of death instead. the cross became a symbol of roman imperialism, a fashion statement etc.

since the cross is a dead symbol and since the christian religion became pagan like the israelites in egypt, then there's no more 'grace' in that system, so it's a dead religion with nothing to offer...
hence muslims exist like those jews pre-Jesus, in a state of tumoil. the palestinian story, or the kashmir story, or the chechen stry or the rohingya story, these stories are like the maccabean story.
Meanwhile muslims await the second coming of Jesus..

Jesus said he (as the Son) will send the holy spirit after to bring the whole truth. Tell you what is to come. He said that 'he will only speak what he hears'
the holy spirit functions through people, the holy spirit is in people's hearts...yet 'he will only speak what he hears' pertains to REVELATION..and 'telling you what is to come' pertains to PROPHECY. that all points to prophet Mohammad.

what do you really have? your only claim is that you have the holy spirit..but the Quran challenges that by pointing out the differences amongst christians. eg if the holy spirit is in you all, why are you all fragmented into so many sects and opinions? why were there so many innovations in christianity? the main 2 festivals in christianity are pagan. the tree, pagan, santa, pagan. SUNday, pagan.
what's left?

the aspects of original christianity that mattered, matters of faith relating to God's grace through Christ, those things are commemorated in the Quran and in islamic tradition. islam tells us that they were all true believers.
the Quran confirms the Gospel. contrary to the modern false agenda of shitty fake muslim arab nationalists, they attacked the bible in all their salafi books, in order to harm islam itself, by creating an anti-christian agenda..
all part of forcing submission within a fake new age islamic revivalist sect.
modern islam is actually in a terrible state, by that i mean the narratives and beliefs held by most muslims. it's highly manipulated..
however it isnt that much unlike 1st century judaism with sadducee literalists, pharisee fake jews, essenes, hellenised jews etc.
 






Joined
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Messages
3,013
In that case why aren't muslims Christians, and why do muslims think Mohammed is better than Jesus?
i already answered the first q.
as for the second q, if they do, it's due to ignorance..
neither the Quran or the prophet said that.

all i know is only Jesus is the Word of Allah..and by that, i mean the greek logos concept eg the eternal Logos, not the Quran which is created. i never said muslims are free from error on these topics
but Mohammad was not going to get bogged down on a topic that was the most advanced topic in judaism that was a religion of over 1400 yrs minimum at that point, with a people who were deeply pagan and only just coming to terms with islam.
 






Kais_1

Star
Joined
Dec 21, 2017
Messages
1,376
the most authentic version of the trinity, the one that's actually theologically accurate
is all over the Quran, all over islam.

Bismillah irRahman IrRaheem
that is, God's Essence, His attribute of Mercy expressed on the macrocosmic level (the Son) and on the microcosmic level (the Holy spirit).
Bismillah irRahman IrRaheem

it is actually

Bismillah hiram man ni raheem

which works out as DPD.. :)

4mHNycCn.png
 






A Freeman

Star
Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
2,106
1) you say no quotes have been made up...
Correct.

yet you have done this
And (Christ the Mahdi)
Which was quoted directly from The King of kings' Bible, the most accurate Bible on Earth, and the first to include the Koran (Quran) and fully cross-reference it with the Bible.

the mahdi is not Christ, they are different figures.
No, they aren't two different figures. The Messiah/Christ/Mahdi is Father's Anointed/Guided ONE: His Firstborn (Eldest) Son (a Spiritual-Being just like Father is a Spiritual-Being - John 4:24), Whose Name in Heaven is Prince Michael (Dan. 10:21, Sura 2:98).

The mahdi will be the final Caliph and the last of the 12 caliphs of Quraysh, a prophecy that goes all the way back to Genesis, the 12 princes.
look how accurate it was..
a Caliph is a vicegerent, a prince...not a king.
Perhaps according to the (spiritually) blind guides of the evil organized religion known as "Islam", with its fabricated Hadith, pretended "imams", myths and folklore, but not in reality.

Christ literally means 'annointed one' (a king) and Mahdi is a prince/caliph...how can they be the same?
Someone has to anoint the anointed one (think about it). It is the KING that chooses whom He will anoint, just as it is God Who decides who will be the firstborn/first-created among His Children (Spirit-Beings).

Hebrews 1:1-9
1:1 God, Who at sundry times and in diverse manners spoke in time past unto the fathers by the Prophets,
1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [His] Son, whom He hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds;
1:3 Who being the brightness of [His] glory, and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by The Word of His power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of His Majesty on high;
1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath BY INHERITANCE obtained a more excellent name than they.
1:5 For unto which of the angels said He at any time, Thou art My Son, this day have I incarnated thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to Me a Son?
1:6 And again, when He bringeth in the first incarnated into the world, He saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
1:7 And unto the angels He saith, Who maketh His angels spirits (Beings), and His ministers a flame of fire (energy).
1:8 However, unto Thy Son, Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of Thy Kingdom.
1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated inequity; therefore God, [even] thy God, hath anointed thee (Christ) with the oil of gladness above thy fellows (spirit-beings).

Father is The King Ruler of the Universe. His firstborn/first created Son is therefore the PRINCE.

That is why Christ's Title and Name in Heaven is PRINCE Michael.

Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael [the Archangel] (Eno. 20:5; 36:1; 40:8; 58:1; 59:9; 57:1-2; 70:4; Rev. 12:7; Sura 2:98) stand up, THE GREAT PRINCE which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the Book [of Life] (Rev. 13:8; 17:8; 20:15; 21:27; Sura 83:20).

Christ is jewish...Mahdi is a bloodline decendant of Mohammad.
No, Christ is NOT Jewish, nor "Christian", nor is He a "Muslim", nor is He human or descended from anyone. Prince Michael/Christ is a SPIRITUAL-BEING, the FIRST that Father (God, the "I AM") created, exactly as it says in Scripture (Col. 1:12-15, Rom. 8:28-29, Rev. 3:14).

Even Jesus, the mortal human son of the virgin body of Mary wasn't "Jewish" (part of the evil organized religion known as Talmudic "Judaism"). Jesus was descended from the Israelite tribe of Judah (and Levi), through the kingly line of David, again as prophesied.

also, it doesnt say 'I AM' since that is Yahweh...and the Quran doesnt use that name.
There is ONE GOD (THE GOD) and His name, in Hebrew is YHWH which, in English is the "I AM". The most accurate copy of the Koran (Quran) is the one found in The King of kings' Bible, edited by The Messiah/Christ/Mahdi, Who is here NOW, exactly as He prophesied.

The Scriptural Marks of Christ

2)

Surah 43, see what you wrote and compare with

61.And indeed, Jesus will be [a sign for] knowledge of the Hour, so be not in doubt of it, and follow Me. This is a straight path.
62.And never let Satan avert you. Indeed, he is to you a clear enemy.
63.And when Jesus brought clear proofs, he said, "I have come to you with wisdom and to make clear to you some of that over which you differ, so fear Allah and obey me.
64.Indeed, Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. This is a straight path."
65.But the denominations from among them differed [and separated], so woe to those who have wronged from the punishment of a painful Day.
you changed this to




this is The Straight Way.

here let me just show you how this further breaks down


"a straight way", transliteration
hatha siratun mustaqeemun

"THE straight way"
Guide us to the straight way.
(سورة الفاتحة, Al-Faatiha, Chapter #1, Verse #6)
alssirata almustaqeema


it's not even like you didnt know this, you did it on purpose...but the fact you thought you could do it with me?
Again the above was quoted directly from The King of kings' Bible.

Perhaps what is most amazing is that you seem completely unaware that there is only ONE Way to God, and it is THE STRAIGHT WAY that leads DIRECTLY to God, and that is referenced at least four dozen (48) times in the Koran (Quran), throughout The Law, and again in the Gospel of Jesus.

Matthew 7:13-14
7:13 Enter ye in at the "Strait" gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
7:14 Because Strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] The Way, which leadeth unto Life, and few there be that find it.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am The Way, the Truth, and the Life: NOT one man cometh unto the Father, EXCEPT by me.

See also:
See: Suras 1:6-7, 2:142, 2:213, 2:272, 3:42-55, 3:101, 4:44, 4:68, 4:172-175, 5:18, 6:39, 6:87, 6:126, 6:153-161, 7:16, 10:25, 11:56, 11:112, 15:41, 16:9, 16:76, 16:121, 19:36, 19:43, 20:108, 20:135, 22:54, 23:73-74, 24:46-48, 25:27, 25:52, 25:57, 28:22, 36:4, 36:61, 37:118, 38:22, 42:52-53, 43:43, 43:61-64, 46:30, 48:2, 48:20, 57:27-29, 60:1, 67:22, 73:19-20, 76:29-30, 98:5.

Compare with: Deut. 9:12, 9:16, 11:28, 13:5, 27:18, 31:29

See also: Enoch/Idris: Enoch 60:11, 88:52, 90:15-17, 91:3, 92:15, 93:1-5, 96:6, 97:9-10

The shortest distance between two points is a STRAIGHT LINE. Why would anyone want to try a different route than the ONE that God through His Firstborn Son/Angel and ALL of the prophets, messengers and apostles told us is the ONLY Way to God?

It is Satan/Iblis who has CONNED this world into believing there are thousands of different ways (religions, cults, sects, etc.), which is exactly who has you believing there's more than one straight way, otherwise you wouldn't be trying to argue such satanic nonsense.

3) not that i even had a problem with the 'Gospel' or indeed the 'new testament'
not that i had a problem with the path of Jesus being 'THE straight way' or 'a straight way'
As above. There is only ONE Way, and it is THE Straight (Strait) Way: by following THE Example of Christ, keeping God's Law, and and actually DOING God's Will.

the problem i have is that Jesus had his religion..and then this roman pagan crap came along and made it into a white mangod superman type figure
i dont believe in that shite...
Nor should anyone else. But that isn't what is being discussed here, nor is it being promoted. The religion (bonded obligation to God) that Christ taught when He was here inside the body of Jesus is very simple: self-discipline to ensure one is doing God's Will instead of their own selfish will.

Can you really not see that is what the Koran (Quran) COMMANDS us to do, and why it likewise COMMANDS us to read both The Law (Old Covenant) and the Gospel (New Covenant), so that we may learn THE WAY HOME?

The alternative for everyone here on Earth is to face The Fire, exactly as the Koran warns us at least 300 times.

im putting you on ignore, you've let yourself down...embarassed yourself but lucky for you, most people on here are just as bad as you..
Everyone has their own free-will to choose to believe in reality or in whatever fantasy they wish. If you (your "self" really) chooses to believe in lies and continue wasting the precious little time that is left in ignorance (attacking those who are striving to help you), so be it.

Peace be upon you.
 






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