What do Muslims believe about Jesus?

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"Like a pagan polytheistic teaching sneaked into a monotheistic revelation under clever disguise..."
That has been alleged and proven with some sects, however I think most Christians sincerely believe in their faith and I think their devotion is true in their hearts. Weather or not God almighty accepts any of our worship is the decision of the Creator, but I believe most are sincere.
I absolutely agree. My faith is all will be accepted by God, without exception.

I wasn't talking about modern Christians. I was trying to understand the historic events and the origins of the Christian crucifixion teaching. Just my personal theory, not claiming to be the final truth, of course. Hard to speculate after almost 2000 years, right? :)
 





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EpistemiX

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I don't care about what other Christians or sects believe differently. My authorities is on the Word of God.

1 Peter 3:18 - For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

1 John 3:16 - Hereby perceive we the love [of God], because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down [our] lives for the brethren.

John 10:17 - Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

John 19:30 - When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Isaiah 53:5 - But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace [was] upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
Those are the alleged words of Peter, John and Isaiah. Not God!!
 





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Those are the alleged words of Peter, John and Isaiah. Not God!!
God spoke through mens... He used his servants to deliver His messages. The Bible is written by mens INSPIRED by GOD.

2 Peter 1:21 King James Version (KJV)
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
 





EpistemiX

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God spoke through mens... He used his servants to deliver His messages. The Bible is written by mens INSPIRED by GOD.

2 Peter 1:21 King James Version (KJV)
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
Yes, the Prophets/Messengers, like Jesus, Moses, Mohamed. Who is John and who is Peter, clearly they are not Prophets and Messengers, but at best, disciples of Jesus who was himself, a Prophet and Messenger of God, as well as Messiah (Messiah meaning chosen, anointed - and not son of God as you would presume rather wrongly)!

At the worst, they are impostors who don't have any history or genealogy!!
 





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Yes, the Prophets/Messengers, like Jesus, Moses, Mohamed. Who is John and who is Peter, clearly they are not Prophets and Messengers, but at best, disciples of Jesus who was himself, a Prophet and Messenger of God, as well as Messiah (Messiah meaning chosen, anointed - and not son of God as you would presume rather wrongly)!

At the worst, they are impostors who don't have any history or genealogy!!
wow you quickly sound like a Muslim. have you taken the sahada?

I doubt any Christian (at least here on this forum) believe Messiah mean Son of God.
 





EpistemiX

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wow you quickly sound like a Muslim. have you taken the sahada?
I'm very close. Each time I read your posts, I find myself in disagreement with what you call Christianity and I veer towards Islam because it simply, gels to my innate disposition to know and find truth. Don't you find that odd? With all due respect floss, I know you mean well, but your arguments/opinions are not satisfying me. They just remind me of a past where I too was too emotionally invested in a faith which did little to satisfy my raison d'etre. And now that you mention it, I find Muslims to be that group of people who actually have that which I have been craving all along. My reason for "being".

To be fair, I think you should know that I fasted for the month of Ramadan. And though I did not fast all of them, I fasted most and found my spiritual core strengthen with each passing day. I prayed, I asked for guidance, and I witnessed signs which only I could understand. God was showing me guidance, and still is. I see you as a sign, that God has chosen you to show me how Christianity isn't the correct faith. That the inconsistencies and emotional arguments are not the signs of honest epistemology but deception rooted in the carnal emotive. And that my friend, is just from you alone!

I doubt any Christian (at least here on this forum) believe Messiah mean Son of God.
I don't. Known plenty who think it means exactly that. Maybe this forums Christians are a little wiser than your average bible thumping zealot. But not wise enough it seems.
 





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I'm very close. Each time I read your posts, I find myself in disagreement with what you call Christianity and I veer towards Islam because it simply, gels to my innate disposition to know and find truth. Don't you find that odd? With all due respect floss, I know you mean well, but your arguments/opinions are not satisfying me. They just remind me of a past where I too was too emotionally invested in a faith which did little to satisfy my raison d'etre. And now that you mention it, I find Muslims to be that group of people who actually have that which I have been craving all along. My reason for "being".

To be fair, I think you should know that I fasted for the month of Ramadan. And though I did not fast all of them, I fasted most and found my spiritual core strengthen with each passing day. I prayed, I asked for guidance, and I witnessed signs which only I could understand. God was showing me guidance, and still is. I see you as a sign, that God has chosen you to show me how Christianity isn't the correct faith. That the inconsistencies and emotional arguments are not the signs of honest epistemology but deception rooted in the carnal emotive. And that my friend, is just from you alone!



I don't. Known plenty who think it means exactly that. Maybe this forums Christians are a little wiser than your average bible thumping zealot. But now wise enough it seems.
Lol thanks for giving me so much credit on deciding your faith. I take you as the sign of end time. Later

2 Timothy 4 King James Version (KJV)

3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables
 





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I believe Jesus was the Word (the Logos)made Flesh and also believe God is Immanent in the Word and therefore immanent in Jesus. Yet clearly do not mistake Jesus for God.

I believe the son of God was a metaphorical term to describe the logos itself. So when ideas of deity were attached to the son they should have been thought of in a universal sense and not just limited to Jesus and his few years in earth.
The exclusivity attached to Jesus as the 'only begotten' really is meant for the universal aspect of logos. When we think of God's Immanence is it right to think only of Jesus or do we think of it in an almost panthiestic sense?
Islam rejects this terminology for good reason. Ignorant people and literalists take such things literally and commit kufr. So Islam is simplified for the layman.

See literalists exist in every religion. The sadducee's were literalists who took the mystical words of Jesus literally and rejected him. They read the old testament literally..and so there is that clash there.
Then you have the christians who appeared and misinterpreted the bible by again taking it literally and therefore making Jesus their deity.

He was born from a virgin. Jesus and John the Baptist were both born under miraculous conditions. They are both connected to the life force / divine breath (the etheric plane)) which baptism symbolises. Jesus is also the fountain of life which again is a reference to the etheric life force.
This is also why both prophets were in the second heaven in the ascension experience of prophet Mohammad saw. The second heaven is the etheric plane.
Now Jesus as the fountain of life is also a symbol of the rock of Horeb which was 'struck' by Moses and became a source of water (life).
I do believe.in the crucifixion and believe Jesus 'passed away' yet don't believe he died.
How is that? Its because death and passing away are not the same thing...and when you study the things Jesus taught it was clear that he had already surpassed 'death'..because death is meant for us due to our carnal earthly attachments..and this life is temporal. When a person dies to the world ie has zero attachments in the persuit of the Eternal ie God, that person can only pass away from.this world but certainly not die.

If you read acts 2 this is also highlighted ie 'death had no hold on him'
So he only appeared to die to those who were blind ie those who considered the flesh to be our true self ...the Sadducees also didnt believe in life after death of the resurrection hence surah 4:157 was a rebuttal to that viewpoint.
Yet people think verse 4:157 rejects the crucifixion, it is one of the mysteries of this verse in that it directly alludes to the 'blindness' of the sadducee's ie 'he only appeared so' (to be dead/crucified' but 'in reality' wasn't.
Ie the flesh dies, the spirit doesn't die. Jesus was openly preaching this to everyone and again it was the precise thing the sadducee's disliked.

Therefore if you ever read 4:157 and form a conclusion of it's meaning based on how the text appears, make sure you realise who Allah was really referring to in the first place.

Other than that we also believe in the second coming of Jesus and that he will kill the antichrist. On that note in the new testament it also tells us Jesus will kill the antichrist with 'the breath of his mouth' which is another reference to the life force.


Btw @Damien50 just because we believe Jesus will die and be buried after he was ruled doesn't negate the crucifixion. Lazarus also died a second time...and again the same thing applies as before even if his body is put into the earth he is still 'alive'. He already died to the world for the sake of God so he cannot really die...it is just 'passing away'

This hadith btw, is an understand of life/death in the context of dying to the world/flesh

Masruq reported: We asked Abdullah ibn Mas’ud about the verse, “Do not think those who are killed in the way of Allah are dead. Rather, they are alive with their provision in the presence of their Lord.” (3:169) Abdullah said: We asked the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, about this verse and he said, “The souls of martyrs are alive in the bodies of green birds who have their nests in chandeliers hanging from the Throne of the Almighty. They eat the fruits of Paradise from wherever they wish and they nestle among these chandeliers. Once their Lord cast a glance at them and he said: Do you want anything? They said: What more could we desire? We eat the fruit of Paradise from wherever we wish. Their Lord asked them the same question three times. When they saw that they will continue to be asked, they said: O Lord, we wish that you could return our souls to our bodies so that we could be martyred in your way once again. When Allah saw that they had no needs, he left them to enjoy.”
Source: Sahih Muslim 1887


That last part btw, i don't know where else it is in the bible but I know that it is in Wisdom 3...
As i have said many many times already, Wisdom 1-3 are actually one of the most important texts about Jesus and the crucifixion story...it is like the link that connects the Quran with the new testament if it is understood.
Most christians who i advised to read this text, they purposely refuised to read it and made excuses by saying "oh it isnt canon therefore whatever"
and this shocked the life out of me considering i have read the entire bible and never read anything like the truth in these 3 chapters not just about Jesus but in explaining 'death'

the funny thing is had my views already but ended up reading the book of maccabees by accident (to understand Daniels prophecies) and wound up realising i was reading a version that also had the book of Wisdom on it.

Anyway in Wisdom 3, it says this

But the souls of the righteous are in the hand of God,
and no torment will ever touch them.
2 In the eyes of the foolish they seemed to have died,
and their departure was thought to be a disaster,
3 and their going from us to be their destruction;

but they are at peace.
4 For though in the sight of others they were punished,
their hope is full of immortality.
5 Having been disciplined a little, they will receive great good,

because God tested them and found them worthy of himself;
6 like gold in the furnace he tried them,
and like a sacrificial burnt-offering he accepted them.
7 In the time of their visitation they will shine forth,

and will run like sparks through the stubble.
8 They will govern nations and rule over peoples,
and the Lord will reign over them for ever.
9 Those who trust in him will understand truth,
and the faithful will abide with him in love,
because grace and mercy are upon his holy ones,
and he watches over his elect.
*

But this is primarily talking about Jesus Christ (chapter 2 is about him and the sadducees).

from verse 7 that connects with the hadith I have quoted ie martyrs will return before the final resurrection.

Jesus also said

Matthew 24
Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.


so they are obviously alive, not dead...
34 Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.”
i guess in this case Jesus interceded for them and they were 'saved' (this isnt a necessary part of what im ultimately talking about).


I highly suggest you read Wisdom 1-3 and if you doubt the credibility it's probably because of sectarian bs.
The irony is the irony is one of the most prevalent theories is that PHILO wrote it..and if this is true, Philo is the guy who introduced the Logos idea into judaism, he was fundamental to christianity.
Also St augstine who was fundamental to early christianity also considered Wisdom as legitimate ie to be read.

https://www.bible.com/bible/463/WIS.1.nabre
https://www.bible.com/bible/463/WIS.2.nabre
https://www.bible.com/bible/463/WIS.3.nabre

Going back to what I quoted from chapter 2, it is also important to notice that it doesn't deny the crucifixion, it explains a greater context of life vs death and the illusion of the physical/flesh life ie that the sinful (the sadducees) will think they're killing him but in reality they'll be wrong.
I think most christians i talked to about this so far were too indoctrinated and defensive to even give themselves room to realise that ultimately what this text says is a bigger explanation of the Gospel accounts and yet it also perfectly explains the Quranic account in 4:157.
When you realise that 2 seemingly contradictive statements can be true at the same time, you see what is in my sig..
Remember God is Trancendent and Immanent so a statement that relates to God's Immanent will contradict the truth concerning His Transcendence. So a person has to be capable of perceiving how 2 contradictory statements are both true coming from different perspectives.
 





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I'm very close. Each time I read your posts, I find myself in disagreement with what you call Christianity and I veer towards Islam because it simply, gels to my innate disposition to know and find truth. Don't you find that odd? With all due respect floss, I know you mean well, but your arguments/opinions are not satisfying me. They just remind me of a past where I too was too emotionally invested in a faith which did little to satisfy my raison d'etre. And now that you mention it, I find Muslims to be that group of people who actually have that which I have been craving all along. My reason for "being".

To be fair, I think you should know that I fasted for the month of Ramadan. And though I did not fast all of them, I fasted most and found my spiritual core strengthen with each passing day. I prayed, I asked for guidance, and I witnessed signs which only I could understand. God was showing me guidance, and still is. I see you as a sign, that God has chosen you to show me how Christianity isn't the correct faith. That the inconsistencies and emotional arguments are not the signs of honest epistemology but deception rooted in the carnal emotive. And that my friend, is just from you alone!



I don't. Known plenty who think it means exactly that. Maybe this forums Christians are a little wiser than your average bible thumping zealot. But not wise enough it seems.
This is a very serious question you are asking of yourself in regards to a shahada. In my opinion, Islam is the straightest way to please God and for us to hope to be blessed with heaven in the afterlife.

However all you need is Shahada, a Quran and a Rosetta Stone course or some other system to learn Arabic. There are plenty of online resources (such as youtube) where you can not just learn how to pray from any number of tutorials, but you can easily watch people praying themselves naturally, not in any instructional capacity.

I would advise you to learn as much as you can in order to make the best decision for your eternal soul and to continue to study after any conversion. But if you choose Islam as your spiritual path and way of life, my strongest recommendation is to avoid born and bred Muslims. I know that wont be popular with some here, but Im not saying this to be contrary or inspire argument with anyone else. I am trying to give you the straightest, best advise I can personally.
 





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I'm very close. Each time I read your posts, I find myself in disagreement with what you call Christianity and I veer towards Islam because it simply, gels to my innate disposition to know and find truth. Don't you find that odd? With all due respect floss, I know you mean well, but your arguments/opinions are not satisfying me. They just remind me of a past where I too was too emotionally invested in a faith which did little to satisfy my raison d'etre. And now that you mention it, I find Muslims to be that group of people who actually have that which I have been craving all along. My reason for "being".

To be fair, I think you should know that I fasted for the month of Ramadan. And though I did not fast all of them, I fasted most and found my spiritual core strengthen with each passing day. I prayed, I asked for guidance, and I witnessed signs which only I could understand. God was showing me guidance, and still is. I see you as a sign, that God has chosen you to show me how Christianity isn't the correct faith. That the inconsistencies and emotional arguments are not the signs of honest epistemology but deception rooted in the carnal emotive. And that my friend, is just from you alone!



I don't. Known plenty who think it means exactly that. Maybe this forums Christians are a little wiser than your average bible thumping zealot. But not wise enough it seems.
As a Muslim I wish you nothing but the best my brother. May Islam give you what it gave me. Also, you write very well.