What could Islam possibly offer me, a follower of Jesus Christ?

[Claire Rousseau]

According to Maimonides, a Jew, Israelites and Muslims worship the same God because each groups believes in only One God and Jews are permitted to go into mosques and pray there if there are no synagogues around. Yet Jews are not allowed to go into churches. By the looks of it the only people who worship a different God from that of Isaac and Ishmael are you Christians.

We worship one God...the Creator of man & all things, the God of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob.

 

[Bacsi]

I think you have poor judgment.

Then you know very little about the Bible.

 

[Kung Fu]

We worship one God...the Creator of man & all things, the God of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob.

Do you worship the Father? Also, do you believe Muslims worship the Father?

 

[grateful servant]

Hi GS -

Your post was well written and helps illustrate a principle I could have only seen by taking part in this forum.

That is just how many ways interpretation is similar to Sudoku. Bear with me...

The grid starts with certain fixed elements and from those you derive, using the law of non-contradiction, the remaining squares. You are not given every number, just a starting point. From that starting point, with time and effort, conclusions about the other numbers can be arrived at.

Sometimes people race ahead and identify a certainty where it was only a possibility, other times they fail to take account essential fixed numbers and try to fix the puzzle by ignoring the conflict.

Some squares could have a couple of possibilities e.g. the one you bring up here where the language "may" be Hebrew or Arabic, or Isaiah 42 referring to Muhammad rather than Jesus at his return. Each of us have certain "fixed numbers" in place that lead us to our conclusions.

For you, as you hold the Qur'an as authoritative, the notion that God would re-gather Israel as a nation and restore the language that had been dormant for many centuries must surely be one you reject.

We don't believe that God gives special consideration to bloodlines. His people are those who submit to Him with sincere hearts, follow His Guidance that he sent down in His Books to His chosen messengers, and worship Him without attributing to Him any partners or offspring. Always has been and always will be. All the praise and thanks to Almighty God Lord of all the exists and peace on His righteous prophets and messengers, Amen.

 

[grateful servant]

Isn't more so speculation based on a preconceived bias?

Where's your proof if you are truthful?

 

[grateful servant]

When you read the whole Zephaniah 3 chapter and not just pick a verse from it then you see that God of Israel is talking about His own people who continue to corrupt the country. They will as all the nations not escape punishment and especially not the people of pride (a pun on homosexuals perhaps) in where Tel Aviv is some sort of a gay haven... and so lives dangerously. Nevertheless a poor and afflicted people with a pure language will be left when the dust settles to worship the God of Israel... not Ishmael.

The God of Israel and the God of Ishmael are the same God.

Or were you witnesses when death approached Jacob, when he said to his sons, "What will you worship after me?" They said, "We will worship your God and the God of your fathers, Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac - one God. And we are Muslims [in submission] to Him."- (2:133)​

Here is the verse in context for an even deeper understanding of Whom Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob and his sons worshiped:

And [mention] when Abraham was raising the foundations of the House and [with him] Ishmael, [saying], "Our Lord, accept [this] from us. Indeed You are the Hearing, the Knowing. (127)
Our Lord, and make us Muslims [in submission] to You and from our descendants a Muslim nation [in submission] to You. And show us our rites and accept our repentance. Indeed, You are the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful. (128)
Our Lord, and send among them a messenger from themselves who will recite to them Your verses and teach them the Book and wisdom and purify them. Indeed, You are the Exalted in Might, the Wise." (129)
And who would be averse to the religion of Abraham except one who makes a fool of himself. And We had chosen him in this world, and indeed he, in the Hereafter, will be among the righteous. (130)
When his Lord said to him, "Submit", he said "I have submitted [in Islam] to the Lord of the worlds." (131)
And Abraham instructed his sons [to do the same] and [so did] Jacob, [saying], "O my sons, indeed Allah has chosen for you this religion, so do not die except while you are Muslims." (132)
Or were you witnesses when death approached Jacob, when he said to his sons, "What will you worship after me?" They said, "We will worship your God and the God of your fathers, Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac - one God. And we are Muslims [in submission] to Him." (133)
That was a nation which has passed on. It will have [the consequence of] what it earned, and you will have what you have earned. And you will not be asked about what they used to do. (134)

 

[Damien50]

Where's your proof if you are truthful?

It was a question because the Torah observant and Christians would not arrive at the conclusion that the author did hence why I asked if it wasn't more speculation based of a bias towards the Qur'an rather than being some infallible truth. If it's what you believe to be true so be it but it is in my opinion speculation based on loose connections rather than being something that is biblically sound but I'm not a follow of Islam so my opinion will obviously vary. It wasn't a contentious question let alone one requiring proof. The author assumes a context that a learned Jew or Christian would not and therefore seems like speculation and inference rather than something concrete.

So it's not really about me being truthful but rather rightly dividing and understanding the word of God, which I do from a Christian perspective, and the author attempts to relate to the Qur'an based on vague waypoints in this biblical journey.

So to your question of where my proof is I ask what am I supposed to be providing proof of? A narrative different to the Islamic one the author provides? Would you, a staunch Muslim, even believe it? I myself being a staunch Christian don't believe the author's analysis one bit but I have a bias leaning towards Christianity rather than Islam. From your perspective my analysis could indeed be wrong because it does not invoke Islam in anyway and could therefore be considered, by you, speculation at best.

 

[TokiEl]

The God of Israel and the God of Ishmael are the same God.

You may believe that.

After all how can over one billion people be wrong for so long ?

 

[Claire Rousseau]

Do you worship the Father? Also, do you believe Muslims worship the Father?

I worship God, the Creator. He is made up of the Father, Word & Holy Spirit. These are one.

As far as Muslims, I did think they worshipped the Creator but the more I learn about Islam, the less I believe that.

I think Muslims think they worship the God Almighty, but that they have been deceived.

 

[Kung Fu]

I worship God, the Creator. He is made up of the Father, Word & Holy Spirit. These are one.

Which one of those three created the universe?

As far as Muslims, I did think they worshipped the Creator but the more I learn about Islam, the less I believe that.

I think Muslims think they worship the God Almighty, but that they have been deceived.

If we don't worship the Creator of all how come Muslims pray 5 times a day saying God is He Lord of all the Worlds?

What deceit and if we're not worshiping the Creator who are we worshiping?

 

[Kais_1]

Which one of those three created the universe?



If we don't worship the Creator of all how come Muslims pray 5 times a day saying God is He Lord of all the Worlds?

What deceit and if we're not worshiping the Creator who are we worshiping?

you are actually worshipping a MAN or ALIEN from SIRIUS....

 

[Kung Fu]

you are actually worshipping a MAN or ALIEN from SIRIUS....

Go troll somewhere else.

 

[Kais_1]

Go troll somewhere else.

im allowed to make a post if I so wish.....

if you cant handle the truth ...then look elsewhere

 

[Kais_1]

jesus Christ - the story is made up from tales of old

Queen Semiramis - Nimrod and Tammuz - same story different names - or look up the piso family of rome

that's Christianity for you basically

Islam is a religion that has coded texts

I discovered part of the code - which I call the AMY code

I found that muslims are actually worshipping a man or alien

 

[Kung Fu]

im allowed to make a post if I so wish.....

if you cant handle the truth ...then look elsewhere

You're the one who replied to me knowing full well that I'm not going to entertain your lunacy. If you didn't like my response don't reply to me. Easy as that. I'm here looking for real discussions and not the crazy ones that flow in your head.

 

[Claire Rousseau]

@Red Sky at Morning

Another passage that points to Islam!

The prophet of Islam, Muhammad (Peace and blessings of God be upon him) said: "Establish your lines straight, for indeed the angels pray in lines. Align your shoulders, close the gaps...."

Perhaps you will one day submit to the Creator in Islam, may Almighty God guide you.

Zephaniah 3:9 – Islam and Unity in Worship

In this thread, I would like to discuss Zephaniah 3:9, a rather obscure verse that prophesies the coming of Islam. Below is the verse as it appears in three different translations:

For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent (King James Version)
“For then I will give to the peoples purified lips, That all of them may call on the name of the LORD, To serve Him shoulder to shoulder (New American Standard Version)
“Then I will purify the lips of the peoples, that all of them may call on the name of the Lord and serve him shoulder to shoulder (New International Version)

Pay attention to the keywords underlined in the above verse. Upon understanding the meanings of those words in Hebrew we see that the passage is foretelling a time when people, standing shoulder to shoulder (in unity), would call upon God in a “pure language”. In order to analyze the keywords in that verse, I will – God willing – present the word, its Hebrew equivalent, a link to a Bible lexicon, examples of the word used in other places and a short comment. To verify the actual meanings of the word in question, please look up the passages where the word is used in other contexts.

1. “People”​

The Hebrew word used is “am” (Strongs word number: 5971)​

Meaning: people, nation, persons, members of one’s people, compatriots, country-men, kinsman, kindred​

(Other uses: Genesis 11:6, Genesis 17:6)​

Comment: Though addressed to the Israelites, the Hebrew word for “people” also refers to people in general, as opposed to any one particular ethnicity.​

​

2. “Pure”​

The Hebrew word used is “Barar” (Strongs word number: 1305)​

Meaning: to purify, select, polish, choose, purge, cleanse or make bright, test or prove​

(Other uses : Daniel 11:35; Daniel 12:10)​

​

3. “Language”​

The Hebrew word used is “Saphah” (Strongs word number: 8193)​

Meanings: lip, language, speech, shore, bank, brink, brim, side, edge, border, binding​

(Other uses : Genesis 11:6-7, Genesis 11:9)​

Comment: The word can also mean physical “lips”. But in the context of the verse, the word refers to a pure language. This points towards the use of a common liturgical language that is used by all worshipers.​

​

4. “Call upon”​

The Hebrew word used is “Qara” (Strongs word number : 7121)​

Meanings: to call, call out, recite, read, cry out, proclaim​

(Other uses: Exodus 1:18, Genesis 12:8)​

Comment: In a new language, will people call upon God. The above meanings apply to Muslims who literally call out to God during the call to prayer; and who recite praises to God in prayer and even in everyday speech.​

5. “One consent” / “Shoulder to shoulder”​

The Hebrew word used is “shekem” (Strongs word number: 7926)​

Meanings: shoulder, back shoulder, shoulder-blade, back​

(Other uses: Genesis 21:14, Genesis 24:45)​

Comment: This suggests unity in worship. This unity can only be achieved if adherents of the religion pray in the same way, use the same language and pray at the same time. This unity in worship is flawlessly reflected in Islam, where Muslims literally stand shoulder to shoulder in prayer.​

In light of the above, Zephaniah 3:9 is speaking of an “update” to the monotheistic religion of the worship of the God of Abraham. It points towards a time when the worship of God would take place in a new language, with worshipers displaying a sense of unity. Since the Hebrew speaking Israelites are being told of a “pure language”, as opposed to, say, “your language” or “the Hebrew language”, it must refer to a language other than the Hebrew language of the Israelites. Besides Hebrew, the Arabic language is the ONLY other language that is liturgically used throughout the world in the worship of the God of Abraham. And what religion utilizes Arabic? Only Islam.

The unity in worship spoken of in Zephaniah 3:9 cannot be fulfilled in Christianity, a religion whose adherents around the world pray to God in their own language, in different ways and during different times. However, the unity of worship spoken of in Zephaniah 3:9 is most certainly fulfilled in Islam.

Even though Arabs comprise only 20% of the worlds Muslim population, practising Muslims the world over, regardless of their own language and ethnicity, pray in Arabic even if they themselves can’t speak Arabic in conversation.

This is undoubtedly a prophecy, like many others, that has been fulfilled in the coming of Islam.

That is a red flag, that a person prays in Arabic (or ANY language they do not understand) Or in a language they aren’t fluent in.

God is the Creator of different languages, so it makes NO sense that He would ONLY reveal Himself in Arabic. God is not a respecter of persons or ethnicity or language....He wills that ALL men shall be saved, and that is evident by the miracle of the Pentecost, when ALL men of many different languages & nations, ALL understood the preaching in their OWN language.....NOT one that God chose to deliver unto a singular nation/language.

Acts 2:
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all [ye] that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is [but] the third hour of the day.
16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
21 And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

 

[Light_Of_Divergence]

That is a red flag, that a person prays in Arabic (or ANY language they do not understand) Or in a language they aren’t fluent in.

God is the Creator of different languages, so it makes NO sense that He would ONLY reveal Himself in Arabic. God is not a respecter of persons or ethnicity or language....He wills that ALL men shall be saved, and that is evident by the miracle of the Pentecost, when ALL men of many different languages & nations, ALL understood the preaching in their OWN language.....NOT one that God chose to deliver unto a singular nation/language.

If God wanted ALL men to be saved, why did He not save us all but instead go through the rather elaborate process of first letting us sin, then killing his son etc? Makes no sense.

That man was created fallible from the beginning makes much more sense, the idea that life is a test appeals to me and is what Islam tells us. Arabic is the unifying language of Islam, but your informal prayer (dua) can be in any language you want. Formal prayer (salah) is done through a custom set of texts and ritual movements, that does require Arabic but it is not hard to learn. Speaking as a convert myself, I find it easy.

 

[TokiEl]

If we don't worship the Creator of all how come Muslims pray 5 times a day saying God is He Lord of all the Worlds?

What deceit and if we're not worshiping the Creator who are we worshiping?

Isaiah 14:12 “How you are fallen from heaven,
Heylel ben shachar [O Lucifer, son of the morning!]
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!

13 For you have said in your heart:
‘I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’"



Heylel is in Arabic Hilal is in English Crescent.

So here we have God calling out an angelic being connected with the crescent and five i wills.

Islam and Freemasonry serve the same god. An angelic adversary and troublemaker. The snake in the grass.

 

[TokiEl]

If God wanted ALL men to be saved, why did He not save us all but instead go through the rather elaborate process of first letting us sin, then killing his son etc? Makes no sense.

It makes sense that God would provide an antidote to the serpent or Satan.

 

[Light_Of_Divergence]

It makes sense that God would provide an antidote to the serpent or Satan.

Because God did not know what would happen with Adam and Eve?

For me, to even think God did not know something is blasphemy.