What could Islam possibly offer me, a follower of Jesus Christ?

Alanantic

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#4
Once I was talking to my very devout evangelical Christian sister, and I told her, "I bet if you were born and raised by a Muslim family in a Muslim country, you'd be a very devout Muslim." She thought a minute...then agreed with me.
 





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#5
OK, this thread finally convinced me what I'm currently contemplating is worth posting about. This is too stupid, you guys, and really completely unworthy. We're down to 'size of my penis versus your penis' with this kind of thing. The intent of this thread, as well as the replies, has nothing to do with the love of next of kind and the real spiritual empowerment that is inherent in genuine religious conviction. So, stay tuned, I'll open a thread here once I've thought a bit more about how to formulate what I intend to express. In the meantime, I really suggest you listen to this song (both educational and very good!):

 





mecca

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#6
OK, this thread finally convinced me what I'm currently contemplating is worth posting about. This is too stupid, you guys, and really completely unworthy. We're down to 'size of my penis versus your penis' with this kind of thing. The intent of this thread, as well as the replies, has nothing to do with the love of next of kind and the real spiritual empowerment that is inherent in genuine religious conviction.
But you've made the same types of threads and comments against Islam... are you putting that behind you?
 





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#7
Islam is not the truth, I completely concur with Thunderian. I do think Islam is foolishness and obvious deception meant to lead away from Christianity. However, it is also obvious just attacking other religions for the sake of it makes no sense. If we have all sinned (we have) it doesn't make sense to be prideful or boast about one's Christian faith - if anyone does so I believe they're then just sinning again and doing the opposite of what God wants by showing to still not have understood. When I have posted negatively about Islam the intent has been to expose it as deception, which I think is quite different from the motivation of this thread. But just posting 'what does X non-Christian religion have to offer' obviously isn't going to do anything more than cause conflict and division, which are the exact things the Satanists rely on to control us.

We have to be a lot smarter, all of us. If you've found your way onto this forum it is obvious you have an important role to play in all of this. We can't afford to keep being this stupid when they're dropping toxins on us and most people haven't even noticed yet alone begun to think about how to solve the riddle.

We need to get inside this dojo and start figuring out what it is that enables Neo to defeat Morpheus.

 





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#8
Convince me Islam is better than what I have now. :)
Study the Qur'an and you'll find out lol. I thought I had but I never found the desire to please or even have a connection with Allah whereas I found a deep seated love for God in myself when I read the bible before I even understood much of the bible. Idk read the Qur'an and decide yourself.

Is this thread intentionally bait?
 





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#9
I don't think this thread has to be considered bait. I think it depends on who responds. If the people who don't believe in Islam respond with comments concurring that there is no reason to believe in Islam and/or making insulting remarks. Then, the thread could be considered bait for other members, but the people who would be concurring could be considered baited just as much as those who believe in Islam already.

However, if you leave it open to responses from people who do not feel negatively towards Islam to respond, the opening poster could be genuinely interested in comparing motivations, which I would imagine they are based on their posting style. There are more people involved in every thread than the opening poster. That is just a reality. We all have a responsibility for the direction a thread takes.

As a result, I feel like I would otherwise not be inclined to respond to this thread other than to point out that this doesn't have to be a bait thread. People aren't obligated to repeat themselves if that if that is what makes this thread feel like bait to some people. Maybe they feel offended like they have already responded to a question like this. That doesn't mean that someone doesn't have the right to continue an investigation without being accused of baiting other people.
 





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#10
Taking it as an honest question, perhaps in response to the recent flurry of Islamic topics popping up in the feed, I think these verses cover it from John 10

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 2 But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice; and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 And when he brings out his own sheep, he goes before them; and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice.5 Yet they will by no means follow a stranger, but will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.” 6 Jesus used this illustration, but they did not understand the things which He spoke to them."

Admittedly, the "sheep" thing opens up a route to trolling an attack on a conspiracy forum, but the idea here is that real Christians have a relationship with the Lord and "come boldly before the throne of grace, even in the time of need". I know when I set my own good works against the holiness of God, I could have no confidence at all before Him without the finished work of Jesus.
 





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yiksmes

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#11
If you going to read the Quran, then you need a neutral mindset.
If you going to start reading Qur'an with the mindset comparing it to bible or any competitive thoughts, then just don't read it.

Be honest with yourself.

I think the same can be said about other religious books.
 





Golden Age

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#12
I wonder if @Thunderian may permit me to rephrase the question into "What could Islam possibly offer a despiritualised, postmodern and critically confused West?"

In 1978 Alexander Solzhenitsyn came to Washington and offered a prescient and fundamental observation of Western democracy and the cultural condition of its societies: “A decline in courage may be the most striking feature which an outside observer notices in the West in our days. The Western world has lost its civil courage, both as a whole and separately, in each country, each government, each political party, and, of course, in the United Nations. Such a decline in courage is particularly noticeable among the ruling groups and the intellectual elite, causing an impression of loss of courage by the entire society. Of course, there are many courageous individuals, but they have no determining influence on public life.”

Solzhenitsyn was pointing out the obvious lack of objective moral standards and the proliferation of relativism in the conduct of the political classes and democratic institutions. As someone that had suffered under the major evil of Soviet totalitarianism, he was acutely aware of the many minor evils that had crept into Western culture and threatened to destroy it and/or turn it into a destroyer of others.

He was scathing about the press. In remarks that have special resonance today, Solzhenitsyn accuses the media of indulging in false narratives and confusing a population that lacks critical faculties: "In spite of the abundance of information, or maybe because of it, the West has difficulties in understanding reality such as it is"

What a genius. He was addressing fake news in 1978!

The subtext and context of Solzhenitsyn's critique of Western Democratic Capitalism was that it had thrown away the only relevant objective moral standard - God - and replaced it with a series of devolving social and economic theories that could only lead to oblivion.

This is where Islam comes in. It is the only comprehensive value system - with over a thousand year track record - that remains unaffected by postmodernism, both in theory and practice.
It has managed to preserve its 'divine spark', its objective moral standard. For Sozhenitsyn's idea that there is no truth BUT the truth read Islam's there is no God BUT God

Its easy to dismiss Islam after glancing at the chaos and insanity prevailing in the Near East and other parts of the Muslim World. That would be a mistake. These areas are no more representative of Islam than Soviet Communism was representative of the Eastern Orthodox Church. The real core strength of Islam is its enduring ability to be true to itself, its followers and the world.

The West detached itself from such ordinances by discarding Christianity. Whatever its faults, it provided the West with a spiritual anchor that it has been looking for ever since. Along the way, it has explored extremes of totalitarianism and nihilism, from extreme ends of the ideological spectrum. Islam has been a cultural factor in avoiding such convulsions in its part of the world. It now seems that the West, in the late stages of postmodernism, is beginning to turn inward in a state of angst, confusion and cultural crises. Solzhenitsyn highlighted this, too:
“There are meaningful warnings which history gives a threatened or perishing society. Such are, for instance, the decadence of art, or a lack of great statesmen. There are open and evident warnings, too. The center of your democracy and of your culture is left without electric power for a few hours only, and all of a sudden crowds of American citizens start looting and creating havoc. The smooth surface film must be very thin, then, the social system quite unstable and unhealthy.
But the fight for our planet, physical and spiritual, a fight of cosmic proportions, is not a vague matter of the future; it has already started. The forces of Evil have begun their offensive; you can feel their pressure, and yet your screens and publications are full of prescribed smiles and raised glasses. What is the joy about?”

So those who are not Muslims on these forums must have the good grace to acknowledge the core strength of Islam and the vitality of its presence in the world. If the West is to be recovered for Christianity, the strength of Islam should be instructive and not a threat. After all, there is nothing more embarrassing than expressing ones inferiority complexes on online forums !?

http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/alexandersolzhenitsynharvard.htm
 





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#13
A Zionist Christian is asking us what Islam can offer. This is funny. Your own life is a contradiction (being a ZIONIST CHRISTIAN) so perhaps you should take care of that first before you try to make your life better by choosing Islam.

EDIT: This is definitely just a bait thread. Look at who the poster is lol.
 





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#14
I wonder if @Thunderian may permit me to rephrase the question into "What could Islam possibly offer a despiritualised, postmodern and critically confused West?"
That wouldn't be accurate from OP's perspective though. The question is personal not political, and it goes beyond the temporal.

IIn 1978 Alexander Solzhenitsyn came to Washington and offered a prescient and fundamental observation of Western democracy and the cultural condition of its societies: “A decline in courage may be the most striking feature which an outside observer notices in the West in our days. The Western world has lost its civil courage, both as a whole and separately, in each country, each government, each political party, and, of course, in the United Nations. Such a decline in courage is particularly noticeable among the ruling groups and the intellectual elite, causing an impression of loss of courage by the entire society. Of course, there are many courageous individuals, but they have no determining influence on public life.”

Solzhenitsyn was pointing out the obvious lack of objective moral standards and the proliferation of relativism in the conduct of the political classes and democratic institutions. As someone that had suffered under the major evil of Soviet totalitarianism, he was acutely aware of the many minor evils that had crept into Western culture and threatened to destroy it and/or turn it into a destroyer of others.

He was scathing about the press. In remarks that have special resonance today, Solzhenitsyn accuses the media of indulging in false narratives and confusing a population that lacks critical faculties: "In spite of the abundance of information, or maybe because of it, the West has difficulties in understanding reality such as it is"

What a genius. He was addressing fake news in 1978!

The subtext and context of Solzhenitsyn's critique of Western Democratic Capitalism was that it had thrown away the only relevant objective moral standard - God - and replaced it with a series of devolving social and economic theories that could only lead to oblivion.

This is where Islam comes in. It is the only comprehensive value system - with over a thousand year track record - that remains unaffected by postmodernism, both in theory and practice.
It has managed to preserve its 'divine spark', its objective moral standard. For Sozhenitsyn's idea that there is no truth BUT the truth read Islam's there is no God BUT God

Its easy to dismiss Islam after glancing at the chaos and insanity prevailing in the Near East and other parts of the Muslim World. That would be a mistake. These areas are no more representative of Islam than Soviet Communism was representative of the Eastern Orthodox Church. The real core strength of Islam is its enduring ability to be true to itself, its followers and the world.

The West detached itself from such ordinances by discarding Christianity. Whatever its faults, it provided the West with a spiritual anchor that it has been looking for ever since. Along the way, it has explored extremes of totalitarianism and nihilism, from extreme ends of the ideological spectrum. Islam has been a cultural factor in avoiding such convulsions in its part of the world. It now seems that the West, in the late stages of postmodernism, is beginning to turn inward in a state of angst, confusion and cultural crises. Solzhenitsyn highlighted this, too:
“There are meaningful warnings which history gives a threatened or perishing society. Such are, for instance, the decadence of art, or a lack of great statesmen. There are open and evident warnings, too. The center of your democracy and of your culture is left without electric power for a few hours only, and all of a sudden crowds of American citizens start looting and creating havoc. The smooth surface film must be very thin, then, the social system quite unstable and unhealthy.

But the fight for our planet, physical and spiritual, a fight of cosmic proportions, is not a vague matter of the future; it has already started. The forces of Evil have begun their offensive; you can feel their pressure, and yet your screens and publications are full of prescribed smiles and raised glasses. What is the joy about?”

So those who are not Muslims on these forums must have the good grace to acknowledge the core strength of Islam and the vitality of its presence in the world. If the West is to be recovered for Christianity, the strength of Islam should be instructive and not a threat. After all, there is nothing more embarrassing than expressing ones inferiority complexes on online forums !?

http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/alexandersolzhenitsynharvard.htm
The West detached itself from such ordinances by discarding Christianity... it provided the West with a spiritual anchor that it has been looking for ever since.

Agreed, absolutely... the absence of even the common decency Christianity facilitated has taken a toll. But it was a slow burn-- it didn't happen all at once. And no offense intended here, but I don't see any evidence that Islam is currently providing a more politically or socially stable alternative, anywhere.
 





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#15
A Zionist Christian is asking us what Islam can offer. This is funny. Your own life is a contradiction (being a ZIONIST CHRISTIAN) so perhaps you should take care of that first before you try to make your life better by choosing Islam.

EDIT: This is definitely just a bait thread. Look at who the poster is lol.
I often think the same of your threads, but you've surprised me on occasion with some random insight. Typically, it's political but that is rarely far removed from the spiritual-- I think we all understand that. ☆
 





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#16
You'll find out when the angel of death comes knocking on your door, that your soul took an oath prior to your current existence, testifying there is only one God and he has and never will have any partners.

Your attachment to Jesus, peace be upon him is admirable but he is no way part of God or God himself. Your faith is entirely reliant on accepting Jesus either as God or a form of God, so Islam will never be for you unless you see the issues with elevating a human (an extraordinary human blessed by God as were all the other prophets) to the status of the creator.

No one really has to prove Islam is better for you, there is no compulsion in religion. You choose Christianity and we choose Islam. We'll all find out in the afterlife.
 





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#17
I often think the same of your threads, but you've surprised me on occasion with some random insight. Typically, it's political but that is rarely far removed from the spiritual-- I think we all understand that. ☆
That's what people say when they don't have a proper rebuttal to the questions and statements of others. I have asked you and Thunderian questions in numerous debates/discussions and you guys always seem to run away. If you want to debate and not cower away holler at me, Zionist.
 





Golden Age

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#18
@elsbet: "That wouldn't be accurate from OP's perspective though. The question is personal not political, and it goes beyond the temporal"

I already acknowledged that i was straying from the premise of the thread and that was done deliberately to bypass the raging polemic between the proponents and detractors of Islam, on these forums.
Most reasonable people accept that the domains of the personal and the political are thoroughly intersected, as are matters of pure faith and the temporal.
If you are able to maintain a neat demarcation (in your own head), you have my admiration. It must take a great deal of effort - in the era of hyper political correctness, 'safe spaces' and fake news - to maintain such a happy divorce from reality !?

The whole point of Alexander Solzhenitsyn's contention in 1978 was that an objective moral standard must have the courage to step beyond the sphere of personal faith and reclaim the lost legacy of the West. You, still, seem not to be able to grasp what Mr Solzhenitsyn was saying !?

@elsbet: "Agreed, absolutely... the absence of even the common decency Christianity facilitated has taken a toll. But it was a slow burn-- it didn't happen all at once. And no offense intended here, but I don't see any evidence that Islam is currently providing a more politically or socially stable alternative, anywhere"

I agree that Christianity offered many virtues to the West and that they would stand the test of time. I wasn't advocating Islam as an alternative system for the West but a model of a value system that remains felicitous to its founding ideals. An inspiration for the West to reclaim its identity.

More fundamentally, there are no alternatives to the prevailing postmodern philosophies of deconstructionism, moral relativism and utilitarianism. The values that have upended the West are also being pushed in the Muslim World, but, the presence of Islam is acting as cultural resistance. I was hoping that you would find that an inspiration to re-anchor the West to Christianity !?

Maybe Islam could offer an viable alternative social and political order, if Christians are not prepared to step beyond matters of faith and into the domain of the temporal ?
 





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#19
Agreed, absolutely... the absence of even the common decency Christianity facilitated has taken a toll. But it was a slow burn-- it didn't happen all at once. And no offense intended here, but I don't see any evidence that Islam is currently providing a more politically or socially stable alternative, anywhere.
How could governments in "Islamic" nations instilled by Western secular leaders be politically stable? It's a recipe for disaster but then that's always been the goal. If you can't colonize them anymore just make sure they're not stable. However, prior to WWI Islamic nations, especially during the prophet's life and after his death, there were many flourishing and stable Islamic regions.

You have to be joking about the socially stable alternative part. The West is plagued by alcoholism, drugs, sexual promiscuity, gambling addicts, and etc. and Islam has an answer to all of this. It's very difficult to find a Muslim who is an alcoholic, a drug user, who gambles, and who has any kind of STD.
 





Golden Age

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#20
@Haich: "You'll find out when the angel of death comes knocking on your door, . . . "

I love your quaint notion that the Angel of Death is some errant Jehovah's Witness that will just go away if I draw the curtains and (pretend) not to be at home !?