What can religion offer me, Who finds Truth everywhere?

[yannick]

I always like to hear different definitions of God. Being beyond human comprehension by definition, we're like the blind men and the elephant. We'll never see the whole thing, so any other view helps.

I like this one:
"3. God is endless above and below the universe. There is no place, or even the smallest particle that it does not permeate.
4. God permeates all of the water, land, wood, and stone. Not a single being is without it.
5. Just as water is in and around water animals, in the same way, this pure God is in and around all living beings.
6. However, this simile with water is not entirely appropriate, because there are dry places which exist apart from water, while it is not possible that anyone can ever go outside of God.
7. If one tries to run outside of the sky, it is not possible because the sky is always found in front of us. Similarly, there is no end to the endless God.
8. But even though it is only God that we meet continuously, it is inseparable from the body, and though it is what is closest to everyone, it is also hidden.
9. One exists within it but does not know it. One imagines to have understood it, but really the Absolute Reality cannot be understood." -- Dasbodh Chapter: 7, Sub-Chapter: 4

You may like it but I love it! Thanks a bunch! Treasured for sure!

 

[Alanantic]

You may like it but I love it! Thanks a bunch! Treasured for sure!

The title of this thread is a bit miss leading. I was following up on those other 2 threads. In truth, a religion's scripture has TONS to offer me! I'm hoping to at least develop an interest in the Truth found in them; "religious appreciation". Usually when one get 'attached' to a particular religion it's at the expence of all others; at least in the Western world. Also, there's much to be found in the Non-Dual movement, even Einstein!

"Pure Awareness does not need anything other than itself to be what it is. Contrary to what logic dictates, it does not need an object outside of itself to be aware of. Another way of saying this is that Awareness is both the subject and the object. As such Awareness is Self-luminous."
"Formal meditation may spin a mantra around the brain to silence the continuous stream of thoughts; but in true meditation, thoughts are seen to occur freely and are not viewed as problematic interruptions that need to be controlled by an imaginary ego claiming to be bothered by them. The key here is to see that this ego is itself part of the stream of thought it wants to control and that it has no reality independent of thought." – Leo Hartong

"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." –Einstein
“A person experiences life as something separated from the rest -a kind of optical delusion of consciousness. Our task must be to free ourselves from this self-imposed prison, and through compassion, to find the reality of Oneness.” – Albert Einstein

 

[luciano A.]

I see religion as a bureaucracy built by humans; usually around a human who possessed great wisdom, presence, and/or something miraculous. I see Truth in all religions but none have it exclusively. While "A Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" is handy to have, it's same with religious scripture. I find it more than likely that much is lost in translation, and it best to use your own senses, judgment, and just be aware of how the universe works.

 

[Alanantic]

Sorry, I can't hear the video because his cross is too loud.

 

[Bacsi]

I see religion as a bureaucracy built by humans; usually around a human who possessed great wisdom, presence, and/or something miraculous. I see Truth in all religions but none have it exclusively. While "A Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" is handy to have, it's same with religious scripture. I find it more than likely that much is lost in translation, and it best to use your own senses, judgment, and just be aware of how the universe works.

I'm in shamanism from Kazakhstan. It's not even so much as a "religion" in the western sense of the world, but more of an outlook at life, a sort of philosophy. Many a Christian have called me a pagan worshiping demons. Many a Muslim called me an infidel following shaitans. But I live and try to never do harm to person, animal, plant or even inanimate life around me, because it's what I was taught as a shamanist from my motherland. We worship the spirits of our great ancestors, but also spirits of the world around us, of which the Great Blue Sky or Tengri is the greatest Spirit governing the dance of life and keeping balance. I agree with you that the most wide spread religions are quite restrictive, and even though they may have some grain of truth in them, overall they're quite primitive and painfully limiting to the full potential of humanity. The world is beautiful, religions make it sound like an awful place. It's bad and sad.

 

[Bacsi]

He's talking very bad, as if he's running away from a train. He's a hypocrite so I can't listen to guys like these... Fake actors jumping up and down to make a buck or two of profit... You just talk like a sensible human being and the whole world will listen to you. Never for money, it's a killer of all good. These church people are after the dough...

 

[Alanantic]

I think we all have a unique path, even those who are deeply embedded in their religion. There are things bigger than our religions that guide us.

"The path meanders out of the sight and measurement of our ego. We must learn to trust this hidden process and cling to it, for it is the inner truth that carries on when everything seems impossible." -- Anthony, Carol K.; A Guide to the I Ching, Hexagram 38

 

[Bacsi]

I think we all have a unique path, even those who are deeply embedded in their religion. There are things bigger than our religions that guide us.

"The path meanders out of the sight and measurement of our ego. We must learn to trust this hidden process and cling to it, for it is the inner truth that carries on when everything seems impossible." -- Anthony, Carol K.; A Guide to the I Ching, Hexagram 38

The problem of being embedded into a religion is that if the religion is incorrect about something, the error gets embedded into you... Must have freedom.

 

[Alanantic]

The problem of being embedded into a religion is that if the religion is incorrect about something, the error gets embedded into you... Must have freedom.

Yes, but the cage is so nicely gilded!

 

[DesertRose]

We worship the spirits of our great ancestors, but also spirits of the world around us, of which the Great Blue Sky or Tengri is the greatest Spirit governing the dance of life and keeping balance.

That's really sad. It is like being brought up in a loving household and when you grow up going to your neighnour and thanking them for your care and/or taking care of them in return..
Those spirits created nothing they are like us, beneficiaries of God's creation and provision:

“When it is said to them: “Follow what Allah has sent down.” They say: “Nay! We shall follow what we found our fathers following.” (Would they do that!) even though their fathers did not understand anything nor were they guided.”​

Surah Al-Baqarah (2:170)

 

[Bacsi]

That's really sad. It is like being brought up in a loving household and when you grow up going to your neighnour and thanking them for your care and/or taking care of them in return..
Those spirits created nothing they are like us, beneficiaries of God's creation and provision:

“When it is said to them: “Follow what Allah has sent down.” They say: “Nay! We shall follow what we found our fathers following.” (Would they do that!) even though their fathers did not understand anything nor were they guided.”​

Surah Al-Baqarah (2:170)

And in our Holiest of Holy Scriptures of the Great and Magnificent Tengri it says:

"When the blue sky [Tengri] above and the brown earth below were created, between them a human being was created. Over the human beings, my ancestors Bumin Kagan and Istemi Kagan ruled. They ruled people by Turkish laws, they led them and succeeded. Tengri creates death. Human beings have all been created in order to die. You passed away until Tengri gives you life again".

The ancestors aren't creators, but they're powerful spirits capable of helping you in difficult situations because they are deeply connected to you. Even if you don't believe in their presence near you and do not consciously communicate to them, they are around you anyway and do provide help and support through ways you may not realize. They are great.

Mahmud Al-Kashgari called us Tengriists "the Kafirs who must surely be destroyed". Such was the Muslim hate against us! Simply for knowing the world they way it really is!

 

[Bacsi]

Yes, but the cage is so nicely gilded!

Well, if the golden cage brings comfort and pleasure for whatever reason, or even a feeling of false safety, then let it be. People choose it. But isn't flying free the best thing ever?

 

[DesertRose]

The ancestors aren't creators, but they're powerful spirits capable of helping you in difficult situations because they are deeply connected to you. Even if you don't believe in their presence near you and do not consciously communicate to them, they are around you anyway and do provide help and support through ways you may not realize. They are great.

No, Allah is Greater!

I know the jinn are around me it doesn't take a 'genius' to figure that out......now you know where that word came from..

But isn't flying free the best thing ever?

Go fly free. Do what thy will!

"They follow nothing but their own opinions and the (vain) desires of themselves, and Guidance has already come to them from their Lord." [Al-Qur'an 53:23]

"And if they reject you, then say: 'To me my deeds and to you your deeds and you are innocent of my accounts and I am innocent of yours,' " [Al-Qur'an 10:41]

For you is your religion, and for me is my religion." (Quran 109:6)

We are not like 'some' Christians who react emotionally to the path taken by others.
We believe guidance is from Allah and it is reserved for the sincere, who have humility (zero pride).
Our duty is only to convey, thankfully.
No need for insult or injury.

Good night

I leave you with a Gift:

 

[Bacsi]

No, Allah is Greater!

I know the jinn are around me it doesn't take a 'genius' to figure that out......now you know where that word came from..



Go fly free. Do what thy will!

"They follow nothing but their own opinions and the (vain) desires of themselves, and Guidance has already come to them from their Lord." [Al-Qur'an 53:23]

: "And if they reject you, then say: 'To me my deeds and to you your deeds and you are innocent of my accounts and I am innocent of yours,' " [Al-Qur'an 10:41]

"To you your religion and to me mine".

We are not like 'some' Christians who react emotionally to the path taken by others.
We believe guidance is from Allah and it is reserved for the sincere, who have humility (zero pride).
Our duty is only to convey, thankfully.
No need for insult or injury.

Good night

I leave you with a Gift:

Everything you don't understand and are scared of is a "jinn" to you. Even your own ancestors! But they still love you and care graciousely about you.

Islam has been spread by the sword. Many of my ancestors were wiped out by the invading Muslim armies from the south because we the Tengriist Turks were considered to be dirty Kafirs not worthy of living. But we and our true faith has survived against all odds!

Oh the Holy Tengri, may your name shine in centuries!

 

[DesertRose]

Everything you don't understand and are scared of is a "jinn" to you. Even your own ancestors! But they still love you and care graciousely about you.

I feel sorry for you.
Good bye.

 

[Bacsi]

I feel sorry for you.
Good bye.

But your ancestors love you! No matter what! Even if you despise them and call them bad names.

And I'm willing to listen and talk to you for all my life, no matter what. Because Tengri says we must love all people, even those who hate us.

 

[Alanantic]

Well, if the golden cage brings comfort and pleasure for whatever reason, or even a feeling of false safety, then let it be. People choose it. But isn't flying free the best thing ever?

I like what you said about our ancestors. We are all aware of our physical families, but also, we are all a part of a spiritual family that has existed since the dawn of time. Religion is Man's earthly attempt to bring us together. It's a start, but something that eventually has to be transcended.

 

[DesertRose]

But your ancestors love you! No matter what! Even if you despise them and call them bad names.

I do not despise them. I ask the Creator to forgive their sins and more......
You have insulted me on the other thread so you are on my ignore.
May the Creator guide you. Ameen.
Edit: psst I do not h8 you I just prayed for you. I do not know you. Do not insult then say you love yuck.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

But your ancestors love you! No matter what! Even if you despise them and call them bad names.

And I'm willing to listen and talk to you for all my life, no matter what. Because Tengri says we must love all people, even those who hate us.

I was just reading about Tengriism - one question that occurs to me - how do you know that the voices and information that come to you from the ancestors are truly their spirits communicating with you?

 

[Bacsi]

I like what you said about our ancestors. We are all aware of our physical families, but also, we are all a part of a spiritual family that has existed since the dawn of time. Religion is Man's earthly attempt to bring us together. It's a start, but something that eventually has to be transcended.

What many religious people don't realize, because of this "we and them", "heaven and hell" dualistic mentality, that the world is whole and one. It's something they're not capable of seeing. Tengri (Blue Sky) the Father and Umai (Brown Earth) the Mother is in fact, a single Entity. Both are required for creation to happen, like male and female organisms among the animal and human life. Our planet is such a tiny speck of existence in the greatness of the Universe, that to exaggerate the importance of the human life is a delusion of grandiosity. Sky is an idea of Spirit or Energy, Earth is the idea of Physical Matter.

Consciousness is one. Everybody is interrelated. There's slow evolution of consciousness because through the eternal wheel of rebirth by the benevolence of the Great Spirit, souls are gaining experience and understanding. It's what's happening throughout the Universe. The Earth is a destination for less developed souls. We still have baby struggles to go through.

Religions are steps in the right direction, yes. Unification, not so much I think... They're good at dividing. Because much of religious ideology spurs from geographical or ethnic or cultural or linguistic or other limitations. This is historical reality, when groups of people were separated and considered the outside world as enemy. There's little unity in the traditional religions. Even this little planet, and our relatively small human population they manage to divide according to certain characteristics... They find differences where similarities have to be found. Too bad I think. Must be total oneness. I think we're going there with great pain, thanks to the technologies of communication and transportation. Still a long way to go to true unity...