What Are American Soldiers Actually Dying For?

justjess

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And China doesn’t? They have a bigger army than we do, with the killing of girls babies for all those generations they have way more men for their military industrial complex then we will ever have.

So again, we aren’t the only country in the world with military might.
Yeah they have more MEMBERS then we do but they don’t have the military presence we do and they don’t spend as much as we do.

However even if they did I don’t see your point or how any of this is relevant to the thread.
 

Serveto

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Funny how we aren’t the only country in the world to do that...
I didn't buy or wear the t-shirt, but did read it. As I said: I am in favor of self-defense, but I also try to recognize - and call out- colonization and imperialism, or offense, pretending to be defense. That subterfuge, or trick, is an age-old strategem as part of the "arts" of war. Evidently, I am in good company because the honorable Andrew Bacevich and others are writing books, articles, and lecturing on the topic of America as a republic, not empire. If I didn't appreciate his insight, I wouldn't have linked to his article.
 

Lisa

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Yeah they have more MEMBERS then we do but they don’t have the military presence we do and they don’t spend as much as we do.

However even if they did I don’t see your point or how any of this is relevant to the thread.
I doubt they don’t spend as much as we do. The point being that they have a huge military presence that no one talks about but keeps banging on about how big the US military is.
 

Lisa

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I didn't buy or wear the t-shirt, but did read it. As I said: I am in favor of self-defense, but I also try to recognize - and call out- colonization and imperialism, or offense, pretending to be defense. That subterfuge, or trick, is an age-old strategem as part of the "arts" of war. Evidently, I am in good company because the honorable Andrew Bacevich and others are writing books, articles, and lecturing on the topic of America as a republic, not empire. If I didn't appreciate his insight, I wouldn't have linked to his article.
And every country has their strategy for war..
 

Lisa

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How many countries has China invaded or occupied in the last ten years?
Right now they are trying to tame Hong Kong, but ya you’re right, why have a huge military anyway...unless you’re trying to employ all those millions of men you have a surplus of now? And what for? Hmmmm?
 

Todd

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Right now they are trying to tame Hong Kong, but ya you’re right, why have a huge military anyway...unless you’re trying to employ all those millions of men you have a surplus of now? And what for? Hmmmm?
Maybe they feel threatened from observing what America has done to countless other nations? IDK. I'm not trying to defend the Chinese military as faultless or innocent but to compare it to the actions and foreign policy of the US military is absurd.
 

justjess

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I doubt they don’t spend as much as we do. The point being that they have a huge military presence that no one talks about but keeps banging on about how big the US military is.
There’s this amazing invention called the internet that has made “doubting” a thing of the past. Now, when your in doubt you can simply type the item of your confusion into a thing called GOOGLE.com and find the answer/solution to your issue.

If you had availed yourself of this neat technology you would have found the amount they spend on their military is - undebatably - only a fraction of what we do. And that while their standing military does in fact number more enlisted members then ours they do not have a fixed presence in every other nation on earth like we do.

And again - why are you even bringing this up? What is your point? How is it relevant to the topic/question of the thread?
 
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Lisa

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Maybe they feel threatened from observing what America has done to countless other nations? IDK. I'm not trying to defend the Chinese military as faultless or innocent but to compare it to the actions and foreign policy of the US military is absurd.
Lol, yep they are innocent just ask the Hong King protestors..

Haha, yep it’s always the US and Israel, two peas in a pod, and every other country is innocent and worse than that they are just duped...but take our money anyway...
 

Lisa

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If I keep putting quarters into your gum-ball machine, could you please, sometime, dispense my favorite red instead of white gum :cool:? Anyway, I'm done for awhile. -I'll chew the white ones.
Have a good day!
 

Lisa

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There’s this amazing invention called the internet that has made “doubting” a thing of the past. Now, when your in doubt you can simply type the item of your confusion into a thing called GOOGLE.com and find the answer/solution to your issue.

If you had availed yourself of this neat technology you would have found the amount they spend on their military is - undebatably - only a fraction of what we do. And that while their standing military does in fact number more enlisted members then ours they do not have a standing presence in every other nation on earth like we do.

And again - why are you even bringing this up? What is your point? How is it relevant to the topic/question of the thread?
I was interjecting that we aren’t the only military in the world and mentioned the sleeping giant, China. Then there’s Russia who has a big military, you’ve got England and France who have their militaries and they like to get their hands dirty too, but we only focus on America for some odd reason, say they are the instigators of everything (besides the Jews..who we all know rule the world, lol!) and every other country is too stupid and let’s us....ok?
 

justjess

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I was interjecting that we aren’t the only military in the world and mentioned the sleeping giant, China. Then there’s Russia who has a big military, you’ve got England and France who have their militaries and they like to get their hands dirty too, but we only focus on America for some odd reason, say they are the instigators of everything (besides the Jews..who we all know rule the world, lol!) and every other country is too stupid and let’s us....ok?
Re read the question that formed the thread. It is specifically about American soldiers and American interests. That does not mean other militaries don’t exist or aren’t problematic. It just means that isn’t what’s being discussed here.
 

Lisa

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Re read the question that formed the thread. It is specifically about American soldiers and American interests. That does not mean other militaries don’t exist or aren’t problematic. It just means that isn’t what’s being discussed here.
Sure, but as an American I’m tired of the America bashing.
 

shankara

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Ok so maybe it's off topic but seems worth interjecting...

The Yankees do undeniably intervene in imperialistic fashion, they have many times in South America and elsewhere. Nonetheless Lisa, for once, kind of has a point. What's going on in Tibet is every bit as bad as what's going on in Israel so far as I can see and China can also be suspected of harboring imperialist motives, after all Marxism does call for a worldwide revolution. They are exerting their influence all over the world, quietly taking over, and though I have no love for capitalism it does allow (at least for the consumer rather than producer countries) a degree of personal freedom not found in communism, like being able to criticize the government without being shipped off to some kind of gulag. Actually China is barely even communist economically at this point, it combines capitalist economics with communist lack of any basic human rights.

I even heard that Mao wanted a nuclear war because it would finish with the US imperialists... and then what, China takes over the world that is left... Another kind of imperialism, and a very sick one at that.

Of course maybe the elites in the West actually want to create some kind of communo-fascist state but at least for the moment there are some kinds of protections offered by human rights conventions and such, though some are being dismantled in the name of the "War on Terror".

Returning to the subject...

I think it's right to say generally one shouldn't judge soldiers too harshly. They may be somewhat blind to the reality of what they're doing, but I don't think they are all bad people. I've met actual psychopaths who have joined the army but also some quite fundamentally decent people. Most people unfortunately lack the political consciousness to understand how they are being used, it's the sinister elites who send them into battle for nefarious ends who are really doing wickedness consciously.

There is no excusing for example Vietnam, this was effectively a genocide, something in the range of two million or more killed. In neighbouring Cambodia they firebombed agricultural lands so that they would become infertile.

Many, many crimes like this have been committed by the USA's military, and it's true that it's by far the best funded in the world, they could resolve poverty and famine worldwide with the money they spend in one year.

So I will never be "tired of the America bashing" as Lisa puts it, but I think there are other aspects of what's going on right now which we shouldn't ignore...
 
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Sure, but as an American I’m tired of the America bashing.
Then you should get in touch with your government and those that are supposed to represent you because there are legitimate reasons for the "bashing" of the US of A across the globe. Not to mention that you should read and educate yourself as to what they've done in the name of "freedom" and "democracy".

Regarding military spending, the US spends more than China:

wolrd_military_spending_barchart_large.png

(source)
 
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justjess

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Sure, but as an American I’m tired of the America bashing.
I’m an American. It isn’t America bashing to question the motives and ethics of my own military. Nor is it American bashing to observe the same in respect to the citizens who join it.

I’m tired of this unquestioning patriotic nonsense. If you really gave a crap about this country you would desire for it to live up to it’s stated principles. You would care when it doesn’t.
 

Serveto

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i think this is mostly from tsarions research, but in order for the elites to get what they want, they need to appease the demonic entity/ies (tsarion calls the beings summoned by john dee "the macrobes"). this requires feeding them pain, suffering, and grief. others might say the bloodletting itself is part of it, but i think thats merely symbolic.
during the iraq war, the mission was called "shock and awe". some people claim it was a twist on 'shekinah', which was an ancient ritual.
To maybe -I hope- support your interesting point, and as a fellow Michael Tsarion (and, just incidentally, Gary Numan) fan, it seems quite possible that Tsarion, in this case, was also referring to Aleister Crowley, John Dee's possible successor. Crowley, being a sort of would-be prophet of (I would call him, in more medieval language, a demon-possessed tool for) the so called "New Aeon," the Aeon of Horus, whose open-eye symbol is often shown here by our host, VC, channeled a book, books plural, in which these, blood and guts galore, were demanded. Crowley was in rapport with an entity identified as "Aiwass," and, especially in light of the past century, with its two World Wars, sometimes called "European civil wars," sacrifices to Moloch, I would say, to Roger Waters's tune, that, quite possibly, "What Aiwass wants, Aiwass gets ..."

Here, then, and for what it is worth, is an example of Crowley's "prophetic" writing. Of course I have no idea if it is either read or taken seriously in the pentagram Pentagon:

"Now let it be first understood that I am a god of War and of Vengeance. I shall deal hardly with them. Choose ye an island! Fortify it! Dung it about with enginery of war! I will give you a war-engine. With it ye shall smite the peoples; and none shall stand before you ... Conquer! That is enough ... Thou shalt thyself convey it with worship, o prophet, though thou likest it not. Thou shalt have danger & trouble. Ra-Hoor-Khu is with thee. Worship me with fire & blood; worship me with swords & with spears. Let the woman be girt with a sword before me: let blood flow to my name. Trample down the Heathen; be upon them, o warrior, I will give you of their flesh to eat!"
The Book of the Law
 
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Karlysymon

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ARMS MANUFACTURERS TELL INVESTORS THAT IRAN TENSION FUELS BUSINESS
https://theintercept.com/2019/05/28/arms-manufacturers-investors-iran-business/

"DEFENSE EXECUTIVES FROM around the country crowded into Goldman Sachs’ glimmering tower in downtown Manhattan in mid-May, eager to present before a conference of bankers and financial analysts.
While much of the world was on edge over simmering tension in the Middle East, as the U.S. and its allies have stoked tensions with Iran, the businessmen at the conference talked of opportunity.
Eric DeMarco, the president of Kratos Defense & Security Solutions, addressed the conference, arguing that his company is “very well-aligned” for the shift in the military budget away from asymmetrical fighting toward nation-state warfare.


The rising threat of war with Iran, Russia, and China, DeMarco continued, could threaten U.S. naval power, which could require ballistic missile threat upgrades, the type of systems Kratos Defense specializes in.
Large arms manufacturers from across the industry have similarly told investors that escalating conflict with Iran could be good for business."

I think the Syrian objective is for islamists to try to bring about their own end times prophecies about the mahdi and that’s why you see Syria getting a lot of fighting over taking out Assad and controlling Syria. Especially Damascus. Damascus as you probably know has its own Biblical prophecy that hasn’t come about yet. So, I can see why their are forces there and that there is fighting there and how they keep getting people to fight there.
I wonder, if the Islamists are solely responsible for Syria’s destruction, isn’t it just plain curious that Richard Perle, Doug Feith, Wolfowitz et al NEVER invited them to the table to formulate the Clean Break Report (written in 1996 for Netanyahu’s govt) together? I mean, both groups, apparently [were] in consensus on Syria’s destruction. Do you think the invites to the Islamists just got lost in the mail and the guys over at ISASP just carried on without them?

Under the subheading, Moving to a Traditional Balance of Power Strategy:

12. “Israel can shape its strategic environment, in cooperation with Turkey and Jordan by weakening, containing, and even rolling back Syria.”[itallics mine]
13. “This effort can focus on removing Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq — an important strategic objective in its own right — as a means of foiling Syria’s regional ambitions.”
14. “Damascus fears that a “natural axis” with Israel on one side, central Iraq and Turkey on the other,and Jordan, in the center would squeeze and detach Syria from the Saudi Peninsula. For Syria, it would be a prelude to redrawing the map of the Middle East….
15. Iraq’s future could affect the strategic balance in the Middle East profoundly.
https://www.counterpunch.org/2004/02/14/clean-break-with-the-road-map/

America is largely on a military footing. My guess is that, before long, there will be two and only two career options in this country: manufacture meth in your basement or join the Army.
This is an interesting comment, albeit bleak. Do you think your assessment will still hold when the “wars come home”/Battlefield America? Mike Pence’s West point grad speech as he listed future theatres of war:

"some of you may even be called upon to serve in this hemisphere."

While most people figured that he was talking about Venezuela/Cuba, I believe that he had more in mind or that he just couldn’t state the obvious.

West Point calls for Megacities combat Unit.

I suppose that by the time America becomes an actual battlefield, as we’ve come to know a battlefield, it might be during a Depression/economic collapse. So, is your comment hinting at that future, when the obvious choice is between making meth and fighting for the gov’t against your old (hometown) neighbors?

------Edit
[DavidSon's post on Battlefield America]
 
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Lisa

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Nonetheless Lisa, for once, kind of has a point.
Thank you @shankara..that doesn’t get said enough around here :) and better yet is Lisa does have a good point, but I’ll take that nonetheless.

Then you should get in touch with your government and those that are supposed to represent you because there are legitimate reasons for the "bashing" of the US of A across the globe. Not to mention that should read and educated yourself as to what they've done in the name of "freedom" and "democracy".
No one bashes the other countries near as much though, I don’t care what they say their budgets are.

Like other countries are innocent..one must ask though..if the US wasn’t a staunch supporter of Israel, would anyone really even care that we have a military? I think maybe that’s the question to be asked, honestly.
 

Lisa

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If you really gave a crap about this country you would desire for it to live up to it’s stated principles. You would care when it doesn’t.
What principles are ya meaning? Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? I think people are doing that.

I’m tired of this unquestioning patriotic nonsense.
Who says I’m unquestioning? I just know that other countries governments aren’t so pure as all that...looks like I’m the more realistic one here.
 
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