What’s Holding The Arab World Back?

Thunderian

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Like I said you're lies and conniving ways won't work on me ;)
Your argument against me consists of the accusation that I'm lying. That doesn't stand.

Your argument for your own point of view is based on lies you choose to believe, some memes you saw, and the fact that a bunch of other people just as misinformed and gullible as you believe the same thing. I am not sure how you can be happy with that, but it's probably pointless to pursue it.
 

Serendipity

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Or, they could remove them the same way they removed settlements in the Sinai before they gave it back to Egypt, Gaza before they gave control to Palestinians, and the West Bank.

Aren't you embarrassed to show your ignorance of the actual situation in Palestine in this way? Read a book.
When did Israel remove the settlements in the West Bank? My city alone is surrounded by at least five settlements.
 

Thunderian

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So if "Palestinians" don't exist, then where am I from?
Palestinians, as the term is defined today, didn't exist before 1967. The Palestinians are a political creation. Until the establishment of the state of Israel, Jews in Palestine were called Palestinians, too.
 

Serendipity

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I am all for complete disengagement from the middle east, but Arabs have been hating Jews for a lot longer than most Western countries have been around.
Hmm not really. Jews have lived there peacefully for centuries until the West decided to create Israel.

Funny thing though: have you heard of the Samaritans? You should go read on how Israel treats them ;)
 

Thunderian

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Jews have lived there peacefully for centuries until the West decided to create Israel.
Do you believe that the disenfranchising, murder and theft that took place against Jews after the creation of Israel was justified? Do you find it odd or reasonable that, after hundreds of years of apparent peaceful co-existence with Jews, Arabs turned on them because of something they had nothing to do with?
 

Serendipity

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Do you believe that the disenfranchising, murder and theft that took place against Jews after the creation of Israel was justified? Do you find it odd or reasonable that, after hundreds of years of apparent peaceful co-existence with Jews, Arabs turned on them because of something they had nothing to do with?
No, I never said it was justified but I do believe that it was supported by the creators of Israel. Don't you find it odd that Jews or rather Israelis have stole our land, tortured and killed us after we provided shelter for them? Arabs did not turn on them for no reason.

Also, you have to separate Palestinians from the Arabs. Arabs, in case you haven't noticed, have been supporting Israel behind closed doors. This whole victim complex thing that Israel always uses is disgusting, its the total opposite.
 

TruthSucker

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How, if I may ask?
Of course you may ask.

Isreal has high trained and very good equipped military forces. The Palestinians can do nothing against it. If they launch rockets or whatsoever the isreali defense shield destroys them with no problem as far as I no.
They have money and well educated people, a stable society and well running businesses.

On the other side (of the wall!) it's the complete opposite. They have nearly nothing. Not even electricity the whole day. Even water is a problem.

And here comes this highly developed state, stealing the rest of what they have left with the pretence they just defend themselves.

This is David (no, not Israel) vs. Goliath.

Maybe the israeli politicians just learned from USA: better to have an enemy for the people you can point your finger to. Otherwise the people could do something against your politics. Fear is a strong accomplice.
 
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Thunderian

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Isreal has high trained and very good equipped military forces. The Palestinians can do nothing against it.
Israel's army was not created to fight Palestinians. You may not know this, but Israel has a lot of other enemies in the region. :)

If they launch rockets or whatsoever the isreali defense shield destroys them with no problem as far as I no.
How is having a shield against rocket attacks on their civilians an aggressive act on Israel's part?

They have money and well educated people, a stable society and well running businesses.
As could the people of Gaza, if they had not destroyed the businesses that settlers left behind when they all moved out in 2005. Or if they had spent the billions of dollars they've received in aid on infrastructure -- like schools, factories and hospitals -- instead of weapons, tunnels and pay-outs to murderers. Israel has offered help in making Gaza the Singapore of the middle east, but the Palestinians have refused to do all these things. They spend all their energy attacking an enemy they will never defeat, while their people suffer.

On the other side (of the wall!) it's the complete opposite. They have nearly nothing. Not even electricity the whole day. Even water is a problem.
As I said, a lot of problem lies with what they are spending their money and energy on. It's not like they don't have the means to make Gaza thrive. Gaza has rich neighbourhoods, high end car dealerships, hotels, restaurants and shopping malls. It's seriously not the total hellhole that you've been led to believe it is. Palestinians receive the most aid per capita of any people in the world.

But do you know why they have electricity shortages? Because Hamas is fighting with the Palestinian Authority.

There are water shortages because the Palestinians have refused to spend the money they have to build or maintain infrastructure. Israel used to have water problems, too, but they invested in solutions.

And here comes this highly developed state, stealing the rest of what they have left with the pretence they just defend themselves.
Do you mean that Israel was highly developed in 1948? I am not sure what you mean by "here comes this highly developed state".

Maybe the israeli politicians just learned from USA: better to have an enemy for the people you can point your finger to. Otherwise the people could do something against your politics. Fear is a strong accomplice.
Are you saying that the Israelis are keeping the Palestinians around so they have someone to blame? Or to strike fear in people? What do you mean by this?
 

TruthSucker

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Like I said: I don't have enough knowledge in this topic to start a serious debate with you. I was just writing down my impressions I got from the media. Maybe that was wrong.

What I see is this: Israel is stealing land from the Palestine territory. That's a fact. If that isn't an agression then what is it?
It's not a de-escalating behaviour and it's not right.

Of course the israelis are defending against terror but they don't terrorize Isreal out of nothing and this conflict lasts too long to clearly point out who is guilty and why.
This conflict has to stop, and it could be stopped by the people. If they would stop blaming each other for this and for that, events that took place in the past, decades ago.

This world isn't about diplomacy anymore, it's about building up an enemy. Sometimes you don't even know where the enemy is but the media tells you he is there. Though your life could be a good one, you live in constant fear.

Media manipulates people all around the globe. And the consequence of this is people stop talking with each other.

I don't know what to say really and how to express it ... humans are the most intelligent lifeform on this planet but we still live in a constant state of war. And religion is a big factor in this. I don't like religions.
That's alway the answer when I think about problems in this world between people and states.

How many people were killed because of religion? How many wars were fought?
We already build up our own borders in our heads by joining a religion.

What did I wanna say? ....... I am sad about this world. Really. People should be more wise.
 

Thunderian

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Like I said: I don't have enough knowledge in this topic to start a serious debate with you. I was just writing down my impressions I got from the media. Maybe that was wrong.
The more a person looks into it, the more lies you find being promoted by the media. Most journalists are liberals, if not outright leftists, and the official line of the left is that Israel is always in the wrong. Most of the articles and pieces you see posted here are from the extreme left. I would ignore everything they say about Israel.

What I see is this: Israel is stealing land from the Palestine territory. That's a fact. If that isn't an agression then what is it?
It's not a de-escalating behaviour and it's not right.
Are you sure about that? Here are a couple pieces that tell the other side of the story.

Is it true that Israel stole Palestinian land?
Is Israel stealing private Palestinian land?


The truth is that Israel has not and does not steal Palestinian land. It tends to be more complicated than that, but it's a complicated situation over there.

Of course the israelis are defending against terror but they don't terrorize Isreal out of nothing and this conflict lasts too long to clearly point out who is guilty and why.
That is what they want you to believe. The lie that Israel is as much to blame as the terrorists they are fighting is not true to the facts at all. Israel is under enormous scrutiny, and takes pains to conduct it's anti-terrorist operations in a way that causes as little harm to civilians as possible. By contrast, as has been shown this past week and for years now, Israel's enemies deliberately target the civilian population.

This conflict has to stop, and it could be stopped by the people. If they would stop blaming each other for this and for that, events that took place in the past, decades ago.
The conflict could stop tomorrow if the Palestinians took any steps toward it. Israel has made agreements and taken steps for peace in the past and the Palestinians have broken every treaty, or used the conditions as pretext for more attacks. The saying goes, "If the Palestinians laid down there arms, there would be no more conflict. If the Israelis laid down theirs, there would be no more Israel."

How many people were killed because of religion? How many wars were fought?
We already build up our own borders in our heads by joining a religion.
I would be concerned about any religion that promotes violent conflict or warfare as God's will.
 

DesertRose

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Ten Myths About Israel
http://www.globalresearch.ca/ten-myths-about-israel/5600556
Review of Ilan Pappe's Book
Particularly, in the US and some European States, the Israeli and Zionist versions of history are widespread. Israel’s narrative relies on a collection of myths aimed at bringing the moral right and the ethical behavior of the Palestinians into twilight and making their claim to their country appear as illegitimate. Israel’s negation of Palestinian existence in the Land of Palestine is, however, a falsification of history.

“Ten Myths About Israel” came out in Germany in 2016 under the title “What’s wrong with Israel? The Ten Main Myths of Zionism”. The mainstream media ignored it, which could also be the case in the US. It’s sad but that how media power works in favor of Israel.

Israeli historian Ilan Pappe, who lives in exile in Britain, deals in this book with the myths of Zionism and exposes them as legends consisting of half-truths and fabrications of history. The Zionist narrative has only little to do with historical reality and truth.

The “Running Gag” of the Zionist historical narrative is the story of the “empty land” of Palestine, into which people without a land had finally returned after 2000 years of exile. The slogan of a country without a people, for people without a country, is the most prominent expression of the Zionist mythology. For Pappe, it’s less important whether the Jews existed as a people, rather than that the Zionists deny the existence of a Palestinian population but simultaneously claim that the State of Israel represents all the Jews of the world and does everything for their benefit and acts for them. Such a claim is just as daring as the identification of Zionism with Judaism because it takes Jews hostage for Israel’s despising policy.

The Zionists presented the colonization of Palestine with biblical rhetoric; this served only as a means to an end. The highest prophet of Zionism, Theodor Herzl, even considered Uganda and other places instead of the Zionist Promised Land. Finally, they found their roots in Palestine. “From then on, the Bible became both the justification and the guideline of the Zionist colonization of Palestine,” writes Pappe. He describes Zionism as a “colonial settler movement” and Israel as a “Settler Colonial State.”

The author points out that the expulsion of the Palestinians in 1947/48 was “ethnic cleansing.” Likewise, the 1967 June war, which is also called the Sixth Day War, was not an act of self-defense of the “little David” against an overpowering “Goliath,” but an Israeli attack on which the Israeli security establishment has minutely prepared for years.

The claim of being the “only democracy in the Middle East” is put in the right perspective. Israel resembles rather an “ethnocracy” than a democracy in the classical sense of the meaning. The “peace process,” which was highly praised by the Western political establishment ended in the acceleration of the colonization of Palestine and in the establishment of Palestinian regime that has to do the dirty work for Israeli occupier.

In his book, Ilan Pappe gives his backing for the historical truth that the Israeli political establishment must face if it is interested in peace. Israel’s security establishment abuses Judaism because it equates its Zionist expansionist and oppressive policy with Judaism. Enlightenment is, therefore, more than a necessity, which the book does excellently by deconstructing the mythological web that surrounds the history of the State of Israel.

This book is an absolute must for an interested public, the political and the media class to understand what Israel is all about.
 
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Considering the fact that the "fall" of Muslim civilisation has coincided with the rise of the end times beast, currently ruled by the whore of Babylon basically tells me enough on this topic.
The ottomans didn't hate Jews
They still fell hard with the rise of Britain and erm erm erm house saud aka the 'horn of Satan'.
The rise of Arab anti-Jewish sentiments ironically were imported to the Muslim world by Arab Christians...and along with it the rise of Arab nationalism.
House Saud has sponsored the rise of the wahabi sect and when you really want to understand this just consider who really rules Pakistan from the original partition movement to the rule of general zia and at present nawaz sharif.
Basically as a Muslim in the know I have a far wider understanding than this guy who lives on a stolen continent.
 

manama

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Considering the fact that the "fall" of Muslim civilisation has coincided with the rise of the end times beast, currently ruled by the whore of Babylon basically tells me enough on this topic.
The ottomans didn't hate Jews
They still fell hard with the rise of Britain and erm erm erm house saud aka the 'horn of Satan'.
The rise of Arab anti-Jewish sentiments ironically were imported to the Muslim world by Arab Christians...and along with it the rise of Arab nationalism.
House Saud has sponsored the rise of the wahabi sect and when you really want to understand this just consider who really rules Pakistan from the original partition movement to the rule of general zia and at present nawaz sharif.
Basically as a Muslim in the know I have a far wider understanding than this guy who lives on a stolen continent.
^^^^^
 
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ok I read the op properly this time, some of it anyway.
So basically here's the gist of it.

Jews are smart folk, they know how to create wealth amongst other things.
turning against them sets you back.

all fine and well except remaining in the 'whore' is going to lead to far worse destruction for us...go read Rev 17/18
 
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