We do NOT have free will. God controls everything.

Wigi

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The White Man white washed everyone in the Bible to deceive us
The only reason other Nations and races exist is because of Esau, which is the White man
There are two groups of Gentiles. One is the Gentiles themselves that aren't considered in Gods eyes, and then there's his people WITHIN the Nations due to slavery.
If you are a descendant from Esau, or a descendant from anyone who is not of God, well, your ancestors left a tab for you, so you too will have to pay the price
Maybe I'm taking lightly to it because I have an accurate understanding seeing as I am one of his.
I don't see a problem with this
That sums what you believe. For you Sin doesn't matter but if someone is born with the wrong race he's doomed by design. That's awful and contradicts Isaiah 11
You're not an Israelite, so I doubt you'd understand this anyway.
That sounded a lot like 'you're not from the Aryan race so I doubt you'd understand nazism'
I'm assuming you aren't an Israelite and you're probably not a person of color, so this is why you're constantly denying what I'm saying
I get it, for you Israelites means black and God supports black nationalism.
 






shankara

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Yes, that's why Christians and mystics are cool calm and relaxed because they know this yukky atoms-and-molecules material world counts for nothing and is not meant to be taken seriously-
"Don't love the world or the things in it, otherwise the love of God is not in you" (1 John 2:15-17)
"For we look at things unseen rather than the seen, for the seen are temporary, but the unseen are eternal" (2 Cor 4:18)


Non-spiritual people on the other hand are jumpy, irritable and uptight because they're trapped in the world and are like wagons without springs, jolted by every pebble on life's road..:)
Christians and mystics... Are you admitting that there are non-Christians who are also on the right track?
 






shankara

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Agreed. Please note well that 144,000 out of billions is a very small percentage that is nowhere near one-third.
So you are in fact still caught up in the silly doctrine of the Abrahamic religions, "Predestination". Perhaps you didn't grasp the point I made, which was a valid one. If God had complete knowledge of everything that will ever happen, we would effectively just be robots, because there would ultimately be no freedom of choice. This is known in philosophy as the "Cassandra Paradox", the theologians try to get out of it by suggesting that despite knowing all future deeds, God is not responsible for them, as He is only a witness.

The solution to this, well for one has to include reincarnation or rebirth, so that people receive the just reward of all they have done. But so far as I can see it also needs a different notion of Divine Omniscience. One in which God is aware of all that could ever possibly take place, but not which of those possibilities will actualize, as this is dependent on beings' Will. If you think about it, such an awareness of possibilities is an even greater form of Omniscience, because it is a kind of Omniscience which doesn't include fatalism.

I really think you should reconsider whether this 144,000 thing is symbolic. If we actually have any real free choice it cannot be literal.
 






A Freeman

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So you are in fact still caught up in the silly doctrine of the Abrahamic religions, "Predestination".
The 144,000 has absolutely nothing to do with the silly doctrines of man-made religions nor with "predestination". Even that prophecy was written in a way that IF the world had been more accepting of the truth, there would be more redeemed in the end.

Perhaps you didn't grasp the point I made, which was a valid one. If God had complete knowledge of everything that will ever happen, we would effectively just be robots, because there would ultimately be no freedom of choice. This is known in philosophy as the "Cassandra Paradox", the theologians try to get out of it by suggesting that despite knowing all future deeds, God is not responsible for them, as He is only a witness.
Perhaps it is you who fails to see that there is no paradox. Once it's understood why we are here (the real reason for human life on planet Earth), then it becomes crystal clear that THE EARTH IS A TRAINING GROUND FOR THE FAITHFUL.

The fact that Father (God) exists outside of time and space, which He created, is overlooked by humans, who are trained from birth to death to count every moment of their temporary human existence. Seeing everything that has happened, is happening and ever will happen in the blink of an eye is what makes prophecy possible.

IF it is correctly understood that our loving, kind, gracious, merciful, patient, all-knowing, all-powerful God is The BEST Planner, then it logically follows that everything that WILL happen has already been calculated to be the best for everyone involved, including all of those who have been baby-sitting this prison planet reform school for the criminally insane for the past 6000 years, even though they didn't commit any crime.

It clearly wouldn't be fair to any of them for ANY of us to be released unless we were completely rehabilitated, to ensure there is absolutely NO risk of us repeating the crime of treason and, in doing so, bringing harm to other INNOCENT Spirit-Beings.

The solution to this, well for one has to include reincarnation or rebirth, so that people receive the just reward of all they have done.
Which you claim to believe, but don't seem to understand.

But so far as I can see it also needs a different notion of Divine Omniscience. One in which God is aware of all that could ever possibly take place, but not which of those possibilities will actualize, as this is dependent on beings' Will. If you think about it, such an awareness of possibilities is an even greater form of Omniscience, because it is a kind of Omniscience which doesn't include fatalism.
The operative words here being "so far as I can see". Considering what we did to be banished here in hell (aka planet Earth), it is extremely merciful for ANY of us to have the opportunity of redemption.

Further, after all of the efforts that have been made to rehabilitate us, it is likewise extremely merciful for Father to be willing to overlook the past sins/evils/crimes of those who show a genuine love of the Truth, and are determined to walk in His Ways from this point forward. How many human prisons do you know of that would pardon a death row inmate for good behavior alone.

Those who are genuinely remorseful for every evil they've ever done WILL persevere, and be rewarded for it, exactly as Father (our Creator) has promised. Those who don't, won't.

I really think you should reconsider whether this 144,000 thing is symbolic. If we actually have any real free choice it cannot be literal.
Who though is it that thinks that number -- given to us by Christ, our Saviour -- should be reconsidered not to mean exactly what it says? It is Satan, through the "self" that always tries to con others into believing the opposite (Satan's lies) of what our Creator and His Servants tell us (which is the Truth). That's why Satan employs faulty logic (illogical nonsense), such as false dichotomies, like the one you've just used.

The 144,000 was only prophesied 2000 years ago, AFTER A 4000 YEAR EVALUATION PERIOD. So, after observing our response to the lessons and tests for 4000 years, our Creator and the rest of His Children (our Guardian Angels) had a very good idea of who would make it and who wouldn't.

144,000 will exercise their FREE-WILL to CHOOSE good over evil; life over death. Everyone else will exercise their free-will to choose the opposite, despite all of the warnings and 6000 years to prove themselves. It is precisely because our Creator respects the gift of free-will He gave us, that the number isn't 100% of the population. And, given our track-record, it should be self-evident why redeeming a planet full of selfish, hateful Beings would violate Divine Justice (perfect karma), which our JUST and FAIR Creator would NEVER do.

Love is, and always has been the KEY. And the ONLY Source of Love is our Heavenly Father and Creator, Who IS Love.
 






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shankara

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The 144,000 has absolutely nothing to do with the silly doctrines of man-made religions nor with "predestination". Even that prophecy was written in a way that IF the world had been more accepting of the truth, there would be more redeemed in the end.


Perhaps it is you who fails to see that there is no paradox. Once it's understood why we are here (the real reason for human life on planet Earth), then it becomes crystal clear that THE EARTH IS A TRAINING GROUND FOR THE FAITHFUL.

The fact that Father (God) exists outside of time and space, which He created, is overlooked by humans, who are trained from birth to death to count every moment of their temporary human existence. Seeing everything that has happened, is happening and ever will happen in the blink of an eye is what makes prophecy possible.

IF it is correctly understood that our loving, kind, gracious, merciful, patient, all-knowing, all-powerful God is The BEST Planner, then it logically follows that everything that WILL happen has already been calculated to be the best for everyone involved, including all of those who have been baby-sitting this prison planet reform school for the criminally insane for the past 6000 years, even though they didn't commit any crime.

It clearly wouldn't be fair to any of them for ANY of us to be released unless we were completely rehabilitated, to ensure there is absolutely NO risk of us repeating the crime of treason and, in doing so, bringing harm to other INNOCENT Spirit-Beings.


Which you claim to believe, but don't seem to understand.


The operative words here being "so far as I can see". Considering what we did to be banished here in hell (aka planet Earth), it is extremely merciful for ANY of us to have the opportunity of redemption.

Further, after all of the efforts that have been made to rehabilitate us, it is likewise extremely merciful for Father to be willing to overlook the past sins/evils/crimes of those who show a genuine love of the Truth, and are determined to walk in His Ways from this point forward. How many human prisons do you know of that would pardon a death row inmate for good behavior alone.

Those who are genuinely remorseful for every evil they've ever done WILL persevere, and be rewarded for it, exactly as Father (our Creator) has promised. Those who don't, won't.


Who though is it that thinks that number -- given to us by Christ, our Saviour -- should be reconsidered not to mean exactly what it says? It is Satan, through the "self" that always tries to con others into believing the opposite (Satan's lies) of what our Creator and His Servants tell us (which is the Truth). That's why Satan employs faulty logic (illogical nonsense), such as false dichotomies, like the one you've just used.

The 144,000 was only prophesied 2000 years ago, AFTER A 4000 YEAR EVALUATION PERIOD. So, after observing our response to the lessons and tests for 4000 years, our Creator and the rest of His Children (our Guardian Angels) had a very good idea of who would make it and who wouldn't.

144,000 will exercise their FREE-WILL to CHOOSE good over evil; life over death. Everyone else will exercise their free-will to choose the opposite, despite all of the warnings and 6000 years to prove themselves. It is precisely because our Creator respects the gift of free-will He gave us, that the number isn't 100% of the population. And, given our track-record, it should be self-evident why redeeming a planet full of selfish, hateful Beings would violate Divine Justice (perfect karma), which our JUST and FAIR Creator would NEVER do.

Love is, and always has been the KEY. And the ONLY Source of Love is our Heavenly Father and Creator, Who IS Love.
You are trying to reconcile the idea that there is Free Will with the idea that it can be known in advance the number of people who will be saved. To do so is to engage in the same kind of logical chicanery which the "organized religions" you claim to detest use to justify their own similar doctrines. Did you perchance look up the "Cassandra Paradox"? There is no solution, except in the notion that Deity does not know all that will happen, but rather all that could possibly happen. Of course there are events that it would be possible to forsee accurately, which are a necessary result of whatever causes and conditions are in place at any given time. There are also events, such as whether an individual being will make some particular choices, which could not be forseen unless they were predetermined, a doctrine which is clearly absurd, cruel and unfair.

I am not disagreeing with you that there could be an Omniscient deity. What I am saying is that the form of said Omniscience must be an Omniscience of seeing all possibilities in order to be reconciled with any kind of real Free Will. Rather than the notion of the Christian apologists that God is "witness but not doer" of evil deeds, as if such a distinction can actually be made.

You are in fact promoting a doctrine of fatalism.
 






cjkkw

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Well if you have no moral problem with your deity being a sociopath... I don't think you have "an accurate understanding", rather you are simply another expression of humanity's endless capacity to engage in self-delusion. The thing which you (and admittedly many others) fail to comprehend is that every being, black, white, grey, yellow, orange or blue, is a living sentient entity which suffers. Characters in a novel do not suffer, they have no subjective existence. Tormenting characters in a novel therefore can't be considered immoral, while tormenting actual subjectively-existing beings, certainly can be.

I am very skeptical about the notion that the "Sovereignty of God" outweighs the idea of Divine Goodness, or that such Goodness cannot be understood by analogy with Goodness that we see in human beings. Plato's "The Form of the Good" seems to me like a good way to understand whatever Divinity there might be. But by your posts I doubt you have made any serious philosophical studies, and so maybe such ideas are lost on you.

By the way, I really like roots reggae music. I assume you do too?
make me some breakfast wifey if u wanna know the truth about god?
 






Lisa

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Wow that deity really sounds like a total dick. Unfortunately many Christians have pretty similar beliefs, god knows everything that will ever take place, including people suffering and being damned for eternity, but is not responsible for what happens because he is just a witness. Well, actually saying there is no free will is maybe a step further, still it's the same substance as the general idea of "Predestination" (even the "Double Predestination" of Calvin).

Personally I think a better idea is that, if there be a Deity, Its Omniscience is not that It knows all that will ever happen exactly, rather that It knows everything which could ever potentially happen. Whether or not these potentials ripen depends on human beings' individual wills. Of course there are things which are a key part of the pattern, which must certainly take place, but the incidentals (i.e. the choices and fates of individual beings) are not something which can be known in advance. To use one kind of terminology, each soul is a "spark" of the essence of Deity, and thus has a certain part which is ultimately free, beyond conditioning and reaction. (I wonder what @A Freeman would make of this idea?).

Anyway, only a lunatic would worship such an utterly tyrannical deity as you propose, and such a deity's paradise would be a hell.
God is not responsible for people’s choices..they know right from wrong and are responsible for their own choices. Sort of like the police aren’t responsible for the decisions of criminals..just the apprehension of them. God provides the punishment for sinners, employed people to take His grace and be saved but won’t make anyone take His free gift of salvation. They don’t have to do anything to earn it..just believe on Jesus.
 






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Wow that deity really sounds like a total dick. Unfortunately many Christians have pretty similar beliefs, god knows everything that will ever take place, including people suffering and being damned for eternity, but is not responsible for what happens because he is just a witness. Well, actually saying there is no free will is maybe a step further, still it's the same substance as the general idea of "Predestination" (even the "Double Predestination" of Calvin).

Personally I think a better idea is that, if there be a Deity, Its Omniscience is not that It knows all that will ever happen exactly, rather that It knows everything which could ever potentially happen. Whether or not these potentials ripen depends on human beings' individual wills. Of course there are things which are a key part of the pattern, which must certainly take place, but the incidentals (i.e. the choices and fates of individual beings) are not something which can be known in advance. To use one kind of terminology, each soul is a "spark" of the essence of Deity, and thus has a certain part which is ultimately free, beyond conditioning and reaction. (I wonder what @A Freeman would make of this idea?).

Anyway, only a lunatic would worship such an utterly tyrannical deity as you propose, and such a deity's paradise would be a hell.
You cant make God into your own image....
 






shankara

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You cant make God into your own image....
So you don't think it is possible to make some judgements about God based on qualities we observe in human beings? Like, when we see benevolence or love in a human being, this is a reflection of the benevolence and love of God. So if any Deity does not behave in accordance with what we see to be love (for example by condemning human beings to eternal suffering), we can be sure that such a deity is just a kind of Demiurge. I think the whole argument "God is who He is and does whatever He likes" is rather silly, it's like saying "ok, maybe God is evil, but let's worship Him anyway".

Of course in Buddhism, "God" is not the thing of the most importance, the emphasis is slightly different. But clearly there are higher and lower conceptions of the Ultimate Reality.
 






A Freeman

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So you don't think it is possible to make some judgements about God based on qualities we observe in human beings?
The good qualities the spirit-Beings have reflect Father (God). God is THE Source of ALL that is Good.

The selfish and evil qualities humans have reflect Satan. We are the children of Whom/whom we choose to obey.

But no-one on this planet, or anywhere else in the Universe, is in a position to judge God. It is exactly because we judged God 6000+ years ago that we find ourselves here, in this lunatic asylum, awaiting final judgment.

Don't you think what precious time we have left would be best spent on learning how to personally be good rather than judging others (including God)?

Like, when we see benevolence or love in a human being, this is a reflection of the benevolence and love of God.
Of course. God is THE Source of ALL Love.

So if any Deity does not behave in accordance with what we see to be love (for example by condemning human beings to eternal suffering), we can be sure that such a deity is just a kind of Demiurge. I think the whole argument "God is who He is and does whatever He likes" is rather silly, it's like saying "ok, maybe God is evil, but let's worship Him anyway".
Considering humans see everything upside down and backwards, and have no idea what love really is, it should be self-evident why no one here on Earth is in a position to judge God.

To a human, the words "I love you" mean "I love what you do for me, or how you make me feel" (selfishness).

To a spirit-Being, the words "I love you" mean "I'm here as your servant, willing to give my life for you" (selflessness - John 15:13).

What you seem to be missing is that your viewpoint admonishes personal responsibility for one's actions, which would actually encourage others to do evil to one another. There must be accountability, to ensure safety and security for everyone, otherwise the criminals are rewarded and the law-abiding citizens are punished. Does that sound like love to you?

Even though Father and His Obedient Children (our Guardian Angels, which outnumber us 2-1) had 4000 years to evaluate each and every one of us, to see if we had any genuine love for the truth and desire to be servants to all, He Himself commits all judgment to His Firstborn Son (Christ).

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son (Enoch 58:1; 60:11; 68:39):

Have you considered please that the destruction of an IMMORTAL Spirit-Being is ETERNAL

Of course in Buddhism, "God" is not the thing of the most importance, the emphasis is slightly different. But clearly there are higher and lower conceptions of the Ultimate Reality.
And there are NONE higher than Father.

Isaiah 55:8-9
55:8 For My thoughts [are] not your thoughts, neither [are] your ways My ways, saith the "I AM".
55:9 For [like] the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts.

John 10:29 My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand.

It is an amazing journey to be guided every step of The Way by the ONE Who knows what is best for everyone. I wouldn't trade that opportunity for the world.

Of course. God is THE Source of ALL Truth and True Wisdom.
 






shankara

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Have you considered please that the destruction of an IMMORTAL Spirit-Being is ETERNAL
No, I haven't considered such a thing, because I don't believe the whole narrative that the "rebellion in heaven" was a real rather than symbolic event. So far as I understand, any hell realms are simply to purify ego before another cycle of incarnation. It's said that they can last for thousands of years, and that's thousands of years like a bad acid trip where every hour seems like an eternity.

But the notion that any being reaches a point where they become "permanently unforgivable" fails to see the ultimate goodness which exists (admittedly often somewhere very hidden) in the heart of even the most degenerated person. What in Buddhism is often known as the "Tathagatagarbha", or what one might call "soul". An "all-merciful" deity could not condemn people eternally, especially given that each being is a spark of His own essence, and thus He would effectively be condemning parts of Himself to eternal suffering.

Of course what you say about what people call "love" being a very distorted reflection of actual love is quite true. But there are traits like mercy, forgiveness (not often found in passionate "love") which are very divine attributes. As someone on here mentioned, if even the most cruel human wouldn't condemn their worst enemy to eternal suffering, would God, who is purportedly all-merciful, do so?
 






Tidal

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Tidal said- Christians and mystics are cool calm and relaxed because they know this yukky atoms-and-molecules material world counts for nothing and is not meant to be taken seriously.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Christians and mystics... Are you admitting that there are non-Christians who are also on the right track?

Jesus said "I am the way and the truth" , therefore other tracks can't be the right ones..:)
I used the word "mystic" to refer to any nonchristian who has a spiritual truthseeking side to their nature, and to their great credit there have been many throughout history such as Buddha, but the bottom line is they were still just humans giving us their best guesses and hunches.
Jesus however was giving us God's words, there's the difference..:)-
Jesus said - "For I have not spoken on my own authority; but the Father who sent me gave me a command, what I should say and what I should speak" (John 12:49)

PS- at the opposite end to "mystics", there are people with absolutely no spiritual side to their nature at all, so in a sense they're 'spiritually braindead'-

 






LittleLady

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That sums what you believe. For you Sin doesn't matter but if someone is born with the wrong race he's doomed by design. That's awful and contradicts Isaiah 11


That sounded a lot like 'you're not from the Aryan race so I doubt you'd understand nazism'

I get it, for you Israelites means black and God supports black nationalism.
Israelites aren't only Black, they're Native American, and Afro-Hispanics from what I can see because we're the main 3 that have been conquered horribly. I don't understand what's so bad about God wanting his people to be made in his image.

Sin does matter, that's why I said 2/3 of Israelites would be destroyed for not obeying the law while 1/3 (144k) which includes those from the beginning of time to this current time period.

Zechariah 13:8 "And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein." When he returns, he will kill 2/3 of the Israelites for not obeying him.

And if you are of Esau's seed, you have no choice but to be condemned because your seed is of the devil. You can look back at my comments for the evidence.

Everyone God chose to serve him in the Bible were Israelites. Esau wasn't. Therefore you've got to be of Israelite bloodline to have a chance to serve and obey him. Esau is of the devils seed, and just like lucifer, he can't repent. That's also why he sold his birthright to Jacob, so that Jacob can be first in the end. Who is Jacob? The 12 Tribes of Israel. Who are they today? Blacks, Native Americans, and Afro-Hispanics.

Don't be mad at me for Gods choice. That's how he wanted it, take it or leave it. If God prefers his people over all other Nations, then it is what it is.
 






Tidal

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Israelites aren't only Black, they're Native American, and Afro-Hispanics from what I can see because we're the main 3 that have been conquered horribly.

Conquered? Nah, we helped civilise them because their way of life was stagnant..:)-

Seminole Chief- "Go home white men!"
Gary Cooper- "No way bub, you've had Florida for thousands of years and haven't built a single theme park or golf course in all that time, so now we're taking it over to show you how!"
 






shankara

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Conquered? Nah, we helped civilise them because their way of life was stagnant..:)-

Seminole Chief- "Go home white men!"
Gary Cooper- "No way bub, you've had Florida for thousands of years and haven't built a single theme park or golf course in all that time, so now we're taking it over to show you how!"
I think Tidal you have a rather inaccurate idea about Native American culture, the kind of thing that was being promoted by the "Western" movies. Not sure that theme parks and golf courses are an accurate measure of a people's level of civilization...
 






A Freeman

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No, I haven't considered such a thing, because I don't believe the whole narrative that the "rebellion in heaven" was a real rather than symbolic event.
So every truth you are unwilling to accept becomes symbolic?

So far as I understand, any hell realms are simply to purify ego before another cycle of incarnation. It's said that they can last for thousands of years, and that's thousands of years like a bad acid trip where every hour seems like an eternity.
This is hell, and we've been here thousands of years to rid ourselves of our egos, because of the very same attitude you're displaying (in thinking you know better than our Creator).

But the notion that any being reaches a point where they become "permanently unforgivable" fails to see the ultimate goodness which exists (admittedly often somewhere very hidden) in the heart of even the most degenerated person. What in Buddhism is often known as the "Tathagatagarbha", or what one might call "soul". An "all-merciful" deity could not condemn people eternally, especially given that each being is a spark of His own essence, and thus He would effectively be condemning parts of Himself to eternal suffering.
You're still judging God by your own flawed human standard, and don't see (or don't want to see) the arrogance in that. It is YOU who are advocating eternal suffering. Why would anyone in their right-mind allow unrepentant criminals with no remorse, who are unwilling to learn the truth or how to be good, roam free where they could commit crimes against others? If you KNEW that these criminals would NEVER repent, then why wouldn't you put them down, for the good of everyone concerned?

The only thing that keeps you from realizing you're seeing things upside down and backwards is your own ego.

In Scripture it tells us that there is only ONE unforgivable offense.

Matthew 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Spirit, it shall NOT be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the [world] to come.

Mark 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Spirit hath NEVER forgiveness, but is in danger of Eternal Damnation:

Luke 12:10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Spirit it shall NOT be forgiven.

Do you have any idea why that is the ONE unforgivable sin?

The Holy Spirit is our CONNECTION to the Almighty, Who is THE Source of ALL Truth, Wisdom, Love, Life and Goodness. If someone, of their own free-will, SEVERS that connection, they are beyond hope, as they have cut themselves off from the ONLY Spiritual Guidance that can save them.

Our MERCIFUL Creator has given us, condemned felons, 6000 years to come to our senses, and be remorseful for what we did. THAT is what He considers LONG-SUFFERING, to give everyone every possible opportunity for redemption. Those who choose, of their own free-will, to cut themselves off from Him, because they mistakenly believe they know better than God and don't want any help overcoming their massive egos (which is the only REAL enemy each of us has) have condemned themselves. They're just too cowardly to take personal responsibility for their own actions.

Of course what you say about what people call "love" being a very distorted reflection of actual love is quite true. But there are traits like mercy, forgiveness (not often found in passionate "love") which are very divine attributes.
Agreed. There is a bit of the Divine in the most evil Soul, but that Soul MUST be willing to learn to be good to be able to survive.

As someone on here mentioned, if even the most cruel human wouldn't condemn their worst enemy to eternal suffering, would God, who is purportedly all-merciful, do so?
Whether you realize it or not, you're personally promoting evil and cruelty, while judging God (Who is Good) to be evil for providing us with all of the necessary tools to rid ourselves of evil. God cannot allow those who have NO desire to learn how to be good to harm anyone else ever again. That's what life here on planet Earth is all about.

For one moment, please consider what it must be like for Father, to have to watch all of this insanity, with people hurting one another and killing each other over materialistic things that they know they cannot take with them.

Peace be upon you, and more importantly within you.
 






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LittleLady

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Thank-you for reading it, but you didn't digest it and its truth, or you wouldn't be falsely claiming it's wrong. You're attempting to con people into believing Father (God) didn't give us the free-will to CHOOSE between life and death, and between good and evil, even though that's exactly what Father said. So what you've posted about us not having free-will is obviously in error.

If what you said were true, there would be no reason for life on planet Earth. There would be no need for any of the rewards or the punishments that Israel received, nor would there be any reason for Christ's Sacrifice. And there would likewise be no reason for this final oppression/tribulation ("the time of Jacob's Trouble"), to awaken those who deserve to be redeemed. We would all merely be automatons, carrying out our programming.

Whoever taught you these things doesn't know what they're talking about. Please stop misleading others with this satanic nonsense. Stick to The Law, and let Father enlighten you, exactly as Christ teaches.

If what you said were true, there would be no reason for life on planet Earth. There would be no need for any of the rewards or the punishments that Israel received, nor would there be any reason for Christ's Sacrifice. And there would likewise be no reason for this final oppression/tribulation ("the time of Jacob's Trouble"). We would all merely be automatons, carrying out our programming.

Whoever taught you these things you are sharing about not having free will is WRONG. In the previous post and throughout The Law, God Himself tells us to CHOOSE between life and death, between good and evil. This is being shared with you not only to help you, but to help those who are misled, including your "teachers" because they are misleading others too. The proof of this is their contradiction to the very Law Father gave us to keep.


Of course it does. What do you think the word CHOOSE means?


Where does it actually say any of these things? It doesn't, does it? So why are you now making these things up? READ WHAT IT ACTUALLY SAYS.


Agreed. And who are Father's Children? THOSE WHO ARE BORN AGAIN OF GOD AND OBEY HIM. It's through one's ACTIONS that Father determines who are His People, and it is by our actions that Christ will judge us all (John 5:22). Who do you think decides what body a spirit-Being is going to be placed inside of if not Father?


Father's COMMANDS are for everyone, exactly as He said (Deut. 29:9-15), even though very few will listen to them, and fewer yet will heed them.


How can you explain things that are not found anywhere in Scripture?

If you are drawing these numbers from Rev. 12:3-4, then you have it exactly backwards, because it was Lucifer/Satan (the red dragon) that drew a third of the “stars of heaven” (angels/spirit-Beings) into his army with his tail/tale of lies, to fight in his coup attempt against Father and Prince Michael/Christ (Isa. 14:12-17, Rev. 12:7-9), which Lucifer/Satan and his angels lost.

Revelation 12:3-4
12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
12:4 And his tale (of lies - John 8:35) drew the third part of the "Stars" (ch. 9:1) of heaven (into his army), and did (cause them to be) cast to the Earth (for their treason against God): and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born (Christ - Second Coming).


Except it doesn't say anywhere in Scripture that a third of the Israelites will be saved. It plainly states that there will be 144,000, which is a very small fraction of all of the racial Israelites today, which Father promised He would multiply like “the sand which [is] upon the sea shore” (Gen. 22:17) and the “stars of heaven” (Deut. 1:10), making them a nation and a company of nations (Gen. 35:11), i.e. a multitude and a (Commonwealth) of nations in the midst of the Earth (Gen. 48:19).

No one, other than the British people*, have grown into a "multitude in the midst of the earth" AND become "a multitude (Commonwealth) of nations".

*including America, Ireland, Scotland, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, South Africa, Northern France, Celtic Spain, Belgium, the Netherlands, Scandinavia and the Baltic states and Gibraltar, i.e. the English-speaking nations of the world.

See: 12 Tribes of Israel Research
https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/twelve-tribes-of-israel-info-research-thread.5480/post-284935

The above thread lists at least 95 of the birthmarks, supported by hundreds and hundreds of verses in Scripture, describing the TRUE people Israel during the latter-days, so they can be easily identified. There simply is no other nation of people that could fit these extremely detailed descriptions, and there is no other throne on Earth that rules over multiple Israelite nations other than the British Davidic Throne of Israel.


According to The Law, and The Law made flesh (Christ) that simply isn't true.

Matthew 8:5-11
8:5 And when Jesus was entered into Capernaum, there came unto him a centurion, beseeching him,
8:6 And saying, Lord, my servant lieth at home sick of the palsy, grievously tormented.
8:7 And Jesus saith unto him, I will come and heal him.
8:8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.
8:9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this [man], Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth [it].
8:10 When Jesus heard [it], he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
8:11 And I say unto you, That MANY shall come from the East and West, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in The Kingdom of heaven.
8:12 But MANY of the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
8:13 And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, [so] be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed in the selfsame hour.

Which is reiterated by Paul, in his letter to the Romans, specifically describing “the grafting of the Gentiles into Israel” by God Himself:-

Romans 11:11-28
11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but [rather] through their fall salvation [is come] unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
11:12 Now if the fall of them [be] the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the Apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
11:14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation [them which are] my flesh, and might save some of them.
11:15 For if the casting away of them [be] the reconciling of the world, what [shall] the receiving [of them be], but Life from the dead?
11:16 For if the firstfruit [be] holy, the lump [is] also [holy]: and if the root [be] holy, so [are] the branches.
11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them sharest of the root and fatness of the olive tree (symbol of Israel);
11:18 BOAST NOT AGAINST THE BRANCHES. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest He also spare not thee.
11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in [His] goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: FOR GOD IS ABLE TO GRAFT THEM IN AGAIN.
11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural [branches], be grafted into their own olive tree?
11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness (as to their true identity) is happened to part of Israel (the ten "lost" tribes - the House of Israel), until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
11:26 And so all Israel (the holy people) shall be saved (see Daniel 12:7): as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away unGodliness from Jacob (Israel):
11:27 For this [is] My Covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
11:28 As concerning the gospel, [they are] enemies for your sakes: but as touching the Elect, [they are] beloved for the fathers' sakes.


Being a racial Israelite is fine, but unless someone is keeping The Law, they are NOT TRUE Israelites, not in the true sense of that word.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; THE FLESH PROFITETH NOTHING: the Words (Truth) that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are Life.


Read what you just wrote and THINK about it. You've written conditional (if-then) statements that depend upon PERFORMANCE, all of which requires FREE-WILL. So your own descriptions are contradicting your initial FLAWED assumptions.


Yes, Jesus was descended from the royal line of David, through both Judah and Levi, making Him uniquely eligible to be both King and High Priest of Israel. However, according to the prophecies, Christ will NOT be in a body from Judah this time, but in a body from Joseph-Ephraim instead (Gen. 49:10, 22-24).


Agreed. Please note well that 144,000 out of billions is a very small percentage that is nowhere near one-third.


With the exception of Elijah, Who is a previous (2 kings 2:11, John 3:13) as well as the current incarnation of Christ (Mal. 4:2, 4:5), and thus our King, there is no guarantee that the spirit-Beings who incarnated the human bodies listed above will be among those redeemed from the Earth.

It's fine being an Israelite (British) by birth, but our redemption depends upon our ACTIONS (works) over ALL of our previous lifetimes, as well as our current lifetime NOW, during these end-times. That is why each and every one of us should be striving to be Christ-like in every way.

Please note well Christ's words about Judgment Day, when He will judge everyone according to their WORKS (actions).

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son (Enoch 58:1; 60:11; 68:39):

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of Man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his WORKS.

Revelation 20:12-13
20:12 And I saw the "Dead", small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another Book was opened, which is [the Book] of Life: and the "Dead" were judged out of those things which were written in the Books, according to their works.
20:13 And the "sea" gave up the "Dead" which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their WORKS.


According to whom? Can you really not see that your entire paradigm is based upon RACIAL HATRED that has no scriptural basis, i.e. is based upon a LIE?

It is absolutely loathsome to me to talk about the skin color of humans, but since you seem insistent on peddling LIES about black supremacy and their alleged bloodlines, etc., it needs to be addressed using Scripture.

Noah was WHITE, as recorded in the book of Enoch:-

Enoch 105:1-5
105:1 After days, my son Methuselah took a wife for his son Lamech (Gen. 5:26-29; Luke 3:36-38).
105:2 She became pregnant by him, and brought forth a child, THE FLESH OF WHICH WAS WHITE AS SNOW and red as a rose; the hair of whose head was WHITE LIKE WOOL, AND LONG; and whose eyes were beautiful. When he opened them, he illuminated all the house, like the sun; the whole house abounded with light (Sura 44:54).
105:3 And when he was taken from the hand of the midwife, opening also his mouth, he spoke to The Lord of Righteousness. Then Lamech his father was afraid of him; and flying away came to his own father Methuselah, and said: I have begotten a son, a substituted son. He is not human; but, resembling the offspring of the angels of heaven; is of a different nature from ours, being altogether unlike to us (Rev. 1:14).
105:4 His eyes are bright like the rays of the sun; his countenance glorious, and he looks not as if he belonged to me, but to the angels (Sura 44:54).
105:5 I am afraid, lest something miraculous should take place on Earth in his days.

Enoch goes on to tell us (prophesy) about the offspring of Noah as well.

Enoch 88:1, 11-20
88:1 Then one of those four went to the white cows, and taught them a secret. It was born, and while the cow (Lamech) was trembling (ch. 105:3), became a man, and built for himself a large ship (Noah's Ark). In this he dwelt, and three cows (Ham, Shem, and Japheth) dwelt with him in that ship, which covered them (Gen. 7:7).

88:11 The ship rested on the earth; darkness receded; and it became light.
88:12 Then the white cow, which became a man, went out of the ship, and the three cows with him (Gen. 8:18).
88:13 One of the three cows was white (Shem) resembling that cow (Noah); one of them was red as blood (Japheth - to become communists - Rev. 11:6), and one of them was black (Ham). And the white cow was left (Sura 66:10).
88:14 Then began wild beasts and birds to bring forth.
88:15 Of all these the different kinds assembled together, lions, tigers, wolves, dogs, wild boars, foxes, rabbits, and the hanzar.
88:16 The siset, the avest, kites, the phonkas and ravens.
88:17 Then a white cow was born in the midst of them (Abraham).
88:18 And they began to bite each other; when the white cow, which was born in the midst of them, brought forth a wild ass and a white cow at the same time (Ishmael and Isaac) and after that many wild asses (Keturah's children). Then a white cow, which was born, brought forth a black wild sow (Esau/Edom/Idumean) and a white sheep (Jacob/Israel).
88:19 That wild sow (Esau) also brought forth many swine (Gen. 26:34; 28:9; 32:6);
88:20 And that white sheep (Jacob/Israel) brought forth twelve sheep (sons, who fathered the Twelve Tribes of Israel - The Shepherd's flock - Gen. 49:24; Eze. 34; John 10:11).

There are TWO NATIONS on Earth who have taken the Bible, translated it into the other languages of the world, published it, and then taken it all over the world, fulfilling their task as God's TWO WITNESSES.

Those two nations are the U.K. and U.S. who are the TWO SONS of Joseph: Ephraim and Manasseh (the British and Anglo-Saxon Americans).

If we look to other historical sources outside of Scripture, we have the amazing accounts in “He Walked the Americas” by L. Taylor Hansen, from numerous tribes of the American Indians (from North, Central and South America), who share consistent accounts about their WHITE BROTHER visiting them during the 1st century A.D., bringing with Him The Law that they should live by. If you haven't already read it, you really should.

We also have the colors themselves, irrespective of their application to human skin. White is historically a color denoting light and purity (white lights, virginity, wedding gowns) and black denotes darkness (black as night).

Further, we have the description of the body Christ will use during His Second Coming, which very clearly states He has a WHITE HEAD AND WHITE HAIR and also tells us He speaks ENGLISH (Rev. 1:14-15), which isn't surprising, given that He is prophesied to grow up in ENGLAND, just as Jesus did, near Glastonbury.

One cannot base their entire paradigm on the misinterpretation of 2-3 verses in Scripture, while ignoring hundreds and hundreds of verses and all of the physical evidence described and prophesied throughout the Bible about the true people Israel. It's dishonest and hateful, which itself is against The Law.

Which brings us back to the core principle of The Law: LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOUR AS YOURSELF.

Beyond seeing how the prophecies have been fulfilled in exact and minute detail, no one needs to worry about bloodlines, or race, or skin color, or telling everyone else how they allegedly know they are saved because they are “Christian” or because their skin color is black or because they believe they are a racial Israelite, whether that is true or not.

What people need to be concerned with is their ACTIONS, because it is by our ACTIONS (Fruit/Works) that we SHALL be known and by which ervery single one of us SHALL be judged.

We have Christ's Word on that.

Matthew 7:17-19
7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into
The Fire.
7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
I'll respond to as much as I can.

Only the Israelites have the opportunity to choose between life and death, apparently as Zec 13:8 says, only 1/3 will succeed. The rest will be slaughtered by Yahawashi when he returns. As I said, any Edomite is of Esau's seed and Esau's seed is of the devil, so they're going to be done away with anyway. The Israelites were always meant to rule within the earth, but they became slaves for not obeying the law!

Deuteronomy 28:68 "The LORD will send you back in ships to Egypt on a journey I said you should never make again. There you will offer yourselves for sale to your enemies as male and female slaves, but no one will buy you."

So which races on earth were in SHIPS as slaves? Blacks, Native Americans, Afro-Hispanics, and South America was also conquered by Spain and Portugal. I know the White Man certainly wasn't a slave! They owned my people, tortured them, beat them, killed them, raped them, and all other vile things. Nobody else had it as bad as us.

And we are the ones that fit the curses in Deuteronomy anyways. Again, who was cursed? Only the Israelites! Who was brought to America as slaves? Only the Israelites! Who is the least desired? Only the Israelites!

Hell, you can CLEARLY see in Deuteronomy Moses was talking to the LORD AND ISRAELITES ONLY! He's the one that eventually brought them out of Egypt by the Lords command. But you know, the White Man hates my people so of course we were still slaves even after that time period so there was 400 years of slavery in America! They're still killing my people to this day too. I don't know what more you want from me.


This is not satanic, but the truth. But of course a lot of people would assume that because they really can't bear the truth. It's always, "Eughh that's satanic!" or "You're a stupid Black Hebrew Israelite!" It seems nobody here can bear the truth. And this is what I'm talking about. Only the Israelites would be able to handle the truth whether they obey God or not, they'd at least understand. Everybody else can't. Why? Because the Bible was only meant for the Israelites, it's basically their history and teaching book.

We really don't have free will. God chose his people, not the other way around. Does that sound like free will to you? I think not. Esau was purposely made to punish the Israelites. Does that sound like free will to you? I think not. By this, we know who truly belongs to God and who doesn't. The only free will someone can possibly have is if they're an Israelite and choose whether or not to obey God. That's about it. Everything else, God controls.

Example: God purposely used Trump to become president so he can cause the fall of America. You can clearly see America is falling and I wouldn't be surprised if God keeps him there to make matters worse and have the NWO come out. Why is he doing this? Because God says for the elects sake, the days shall be shortened meaning his people are coming closer to finally ruling over other Nations in Israel along with Yahawashi as they were originally supposed to, obviously after the Great Tribulation. I'll touch upon this subject in another thread though.

Zechariah 13:8 talks about 1/3 of the Israelites making it.

But I love how you purposely give me verses talking about how most of Israel won't make it. 8:11-12 talks about the scattered Israelites due to slavery, (which you can find info on that in Deuteronomy) they're all over the world, not just in one place. 2/3 will be cast in outer darkness while the 1/3 will be saved. And those verses have nothing to do with Jesus giving the Nations themselves salvation. There are two groups of Gentiles: There's the Nations themselves, and then there's the Israelites mixed within them because of, again, slavery. So which one is salvation offered to? Only the Gentiles, which are the Israelites that happened to be mixed in within these Nations. The Nations themselves will be condemned.

And Romans 11:11-28 is quite literally only about the Israelites. Same explanation about there being two groups of Gentiles. Do you really think most of us belong in America? We don't. We were brought over here as slaves, we would be in our original lands had that never happened. So there you have it, two Gentiles. The Nation itself including it's people that belongs there, and then the Israelites within it that weren't supposed to be there, but had to be, because they disobeyed God. I'm supposedly African-AMERICAN. No, America is not my original land, that's the title I have no choice but to take for a while until I go back to my original land which is Israel.

Anyone who is of Israelite blood is an Israelite whether they obey God or not. When the 2/3 get cast away, they're still going to be known as Israelites except they're condemned. So they'll just be unholy, and won't take part of the Kingdom of Israel. They won't be grafted unto Israel, meaning they won't be part of the Kingdom. Nobody can just become an Israelite.That's why I said bloodlines matter.

"144,000 out of billions is nowhere near one-third." That's because most people on this earth aren't Israelites. If you recall in History, a lot of my people were getting killed, and still are to this day. That is why God either caused or allowed this virus for the purposes of killing many of these Edomites off. As you can see, it only mostly affected European Nations. And then we also have devils in the government having a depopulation agenda so it'll be easier for citizens to take the mark of the beast. Judgment is upon these Nations.

I am not using racial hatred, I just think you're offended. As I said, God created HIS PEOPLE in his image with the same features, and same hair texture ORIGINALLY, but we're all mixed now. You want to be mad at God for originally having the plan to have his people look like him? Well take it up with him, not me. If anything, the Blacks, Native Americans, and Afro-Hispanics who are part of the 1/3 deserve to rule over other Nations because of what everyone else have done to them. And that's exactly what's going to happen. Call it justice and revenge if you will.

Bloodlines do matter, I have used scriptures this entire time. Not only in this thread, but also in my other thread. It's plain and simple, and I'm tired of repeating myself about Jacob and Esau to the same old people. At this point, if you don't get it, you just don't get it.

Noah was an Albino. He was still of Israelite blood, not Esau's bloodline. Are you not aware that there are a lot of Black people out there that look like White people? Literal White pigment, and blonde hair? Same with a lion. We usually see brown lions, but there are some White Albino lions. Please keep this in mind. Noah has Albinism.

When the scripture says Jesus has a white head- a head is not your face, but is rather attached to your head. There's a difference. His head is full of white hair because he is of age! Jesus is NOT a white man! My head has dark brown hair up top. Does that mean my skin color is dark too? No, I am of a golden skin tone.

If you look up the scriptures describing Jesus, it says his feet are like brass as if burned in a furnace. Do you know just how DARK that is? If his feet looks like that, then the rest of his body does too. (Revelation 1:15)

Burnt brass looks like this:

15313285589_a2e61b43f6_z.jpg

images (3).jpeg

So please, stop believing he is White. That's the White Mans lie. You know what, if you want to be in denial so bad, then continue. I know who I serve, and it certainly isn't my slave masters false depiction of Jesus!

Jesus spoke Hebrew, not English. I could have sworn my people were forced to learn English as soon as we arrived to America just like South America was forced to learn Spanish. And Jesus wasn't in America, so he did not speak English at the time. When he returns, we're all probably going to speak Hebrew including the other Nations because Hebrew was the first language ever created by God himself. Talking about Jesus grew up in England- you really hate the real Jesus don't you?

JESUS WAS BORN IN NAZARETH WHICH IS IN ISRAEL! (Matthew 2:23, Matthew 21:11, Matthew 26:71, Mark 1:24) And England is full of Edomites, Jesus would obviously be in his own land.

This is an absolute mess, you don't know History, you assume Jesus is White- you're all over the place. I don't even want to continue having a conversation with you, because then I'll be forced to repeat everything over and over, and become irritated with the fact you don't even know your History. Whether you're White or not, you should know what your people have done back then. The Bible is a literal History book too, besides a learning book.

This is just horrible. I have no more words to say to you. Whatever you believe is just what you believe, and if you aren't an Israelite yourself, then it REALLY doesn't matter. Farewell.



 






Tidal

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Mar 4, 2020
Messages
1,549
I think Tidal you have a rather inaccurate idea about Native American culture..

Mate, you speakum with forked tongue!
if some Americans feel sorry for Red Indians they can always stop squatting on their land and give it back to 'em.. :p

 






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Maes17

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Hey, he's God. He does what he wants. He chooses who he wants. He destroys who he wants. Maybe I'm taking lightly to it because I have an accurate understanding seeing as I am one of his. He's the author. The example given was an author would create people, choose who they like, choose who they don't like, plan out all events, and give their beloved characters a happy ending.

I don't see a problem with this.
I do see God in the way he does what he wants.
I think the freewill part....well just my belief he lets you. He’ll present you choices/opportunities. It’s up to you to seize them.
 






Tidal

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Mar 4, 2020
Messages
1,549
So please, stop believing he is White...

Were the disciples black too, and did they and Jesus go on the road as a minstrel touring company?
Oh wait, this startling ancient footage allegedly from a Jerusalem temple gig has just emerged!-

 






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