War in Palestine

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#1
  • 400 rockets fired from Gaza at Israeli civilians, building and vehicles, resulting in dozens of injuries and at least one death
  • IDF have targeted Hamas infrastructure, including communications centre
 





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#3
Okay, but can we discuss the Palestinian children throwing rocks at Israeli soldiers for destroying their lives and killing their family members for no reason and then getting bullets fired back at them?
If you have a legitimate example of that happening, sure.
 





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#4
"B'Tselem statistics indicate that of the Palestinian child fatalities, 75.47 percent were killed in the Gaza Strip, 24.31 percent were killed in the West Bank, and three were killed within Israel while participating in the hostilities."

But I guess its more shocking news that "400 rockets [were] fired from Gaza at Israeli civilians, building and vehicles, resulting in dozens of injuries and at least one death."
 





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#5
"B'Tselem statistics indicate that of the Palestinian child fatalities, 75.47 percent were killed in the Gaza Strip, 24.31 percent were killed in the West Bank, and three were killed within Israel while participating in the hostilities."

But I guess its more shocking news that "400 rockets [were] fired from Gaza at Israeli civilians, building and vehicles, resulting in dozens of injuries and at least one death."
Where is the example of what you said?
 





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#6
"B'Tselem statistics indicate that of the Palestinian child fatalities, 75.47 percent were killed in the Gaza Strip, 24.31 percent were killed in the West Bank, and three were killed within Israel while participating in the hostilities."
"Palestinian children throwing rocks at Israeli soldiers... and then getting bullets fired back at them."

I think the question was 'do you have an example of the above ^^ happening?'
 





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#7
  • 400 rockets fired from Gaza at Israeli civilians, building and vehicles, resulting in dozens of injuries and at least one death
  • IDF have targeted Hamas infrastructure, including communications centre
some acceleration of world conflict was very predictable as soon as the American House of Representatives was flipped to the Democrats. When a war is coming, it is much more satisfying to have both parties involved and sharing power. (In 2001 the Senate was controlled by Democrats and the House by Republicans).
 





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#9
https://www.truthdig.com/articles/israel-hamas-trade-heavy-fire-after-deadly-incursion/

It appears the rocket fire was a response to an Israeli raid gone wrong.

It is of course immoral to fire rockets into civilian areas and it seems like Hamas and Islamic Jihad took the bait.

The Israeli response as usual will not be proportional and will amount to collective punishment.

Very sad to see war escalate, considering what we’re supposed to remember this weekend/today.

So many things make it seem like an impossible task. All reason is abandoned during this discussion and it gets lost in religious prophecy, Jewish-conspiracy theories or Anti-Muslim sentiment.

Nothing will change as long as religion and hate clouds the issue.
 





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#10
https://www.truthdig.com/articles/israel-hamas-trade-heavy-fire-after-deadly-incursion/

It appears the rocket fire was a response to an Israeli raid gone wrong.

It is of course immoral to fire rockets into civilian areas and it seems like Hamas and Islamic Jihad took the bait.

The Israeli response as usual will not be proportional and will amount to collective punishment.

Very sad to see war escalate, considering what we’re supposed to remember this weekend/today.

So many things make it seem like an impossible task. All reason is abandoned during this discussion and it gets lost in religious prophecy, Jewish-conspiracy theories or Anti-Muslim sentiment.

Nothing will change as long as religion and hate clouds the issue.
Disproportionate-- firing into a civilian area in retaliation to a recon mission. Indeed.
 





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#11
Disproportionate-- firing into a civilian area in retaliation to a recon mission. Indeed.
Recon or assassination mission? Anyway point taken, you’re not wrong, but the response to that from the Israelis will be much more lethal than the rockets will ever be.

Plus you really can’t deny that Gaza is one of the worst places you could be born into it. I can’t think of a more painful and desperate place, and Israel certainly does have responsibility for this.

And here I am once again between the Israelis can do no wrong or the damn Jews are behind every evil in the world.
 





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#12
The Israeli response as usual will not be proportional and will amount to collective punishment.
I agree with everything else you say, except this. As elsbet pointed out, a proportional response on Israel's part would mean they haphazardly lobbed bombs at Palestinian innocents, as Hamas does when it attacks Israel. Gazans should be grateful Israel's response is not a proportional one. The IDF only targets terror infrastructure.

And what is collective punishment, if not the terror being waged against Israeli civilians right now?
 





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#13
I agree with everything else you say, except this. As elsbet pointed out, a proportional response on Israel's part would mean they haphazardly lobbed bombs at Palestinian innocents, as Hamas does when it attacks Israel. Gazans should be grateful Israel's response is not a proportional one. The IDF only targets terror infrastructure.

And what is collective punishment, if not the terror being waged against Israeli civilians right now?
Yeah man the civilian casualty rate over the years is pretty damn high no matter what the Israeli government says who they target, and the lethality rate from these periodic escalations isn't even close man.

It's easy for me to say, even though we both know I am morally correct, that the Palestinians should not engage in violent resistance. I'm not from there though, and I can understand why desperate people do desperate things because as I said, I can't think of worse place to live and man its just the economics of the situation, Israel has all the power here and they bear responsibility for the real as hell suffering that is going on everyday.
 





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#14
I can’t think of a more painful and desperate place, and Israel certainly does have responsibility for this.
When Israel pulled every last Jew from Gaza and handed control over to the Palestinians, there could have been peace in that region, and prosperity for the people who lived there. A group of Jews purchased the greenhouse business that had been established by Israeli settlers in Gaza and gifted it to new Palestinian state. The nations of the world lined up with offers of any kind of aid the Palestinians might have needed to build something beneficial the Palestinian people.

What did the Palestinians do? They elected a terrorist organization to lead their people, they spent the aid on guns and bombs and tunnels to attack Israel, and they looted the factories and greenhouses the Jews had left behind, then burned them to the ground.

The responsibility for the situation in Gaza rests completely on the people of Gaza.
 





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#15
And here I am once again between the Israelis can do no wrong or the damn Jews are behind every evil in the world.
You're not in that position as long as you take for granted that the Israelis have no right to be in Palestine, and that anything they do to defend themselves and their people is disproportionate. Or, for the matter, as long as you think the actions of Hamas are at all justified. You can't know the facts and be fair-minded, and continue to hold those positions.
 





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#16
Are you kidding me?

Are you aware of the conflict between Israel and Palestine that dates back centuries? These Israeli soldiers hate Palestinians with a passion and were raised that way.
For them to take advantage of the fact that Palestine is in chaos at the moment is completely unfair. They are murdering innocent civilians and killing them ruthlessly for absoultely no reason. This entire concept that "The IDF only targets terror infrastructure" is complete and utter BS there are palestinian children being shot and killed routinely by Israeli soldiers and nobody bats an eye.
 





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#17
When Israel pulled every last Jew from Gaza and handed control over to the Palestinians, there could have been peace in that region, and prosperity for the people who lived there. A group of Jews purchased the greenhouse business that had been established by Israeli settlers in Gaza and gifted it to new Palestinian state. The nations of the world lined up with offers of any kind of aid the Palestinians might have needed to build something beneficial the Palestinian people.

What did the Palestinians do? They elected a terrorist organization to lead their people, they spent the aid on guns and bombs and tunnels to attack Israel, and they looted the factories and greenhouses the Jews had left behind, then burned them to the ground.

The responsibility for the situation in Gaza rests completely on the people of Gaza.
I'm sure it is more nuanced then you present, even if that is the case, why does that decision doom innocent women and children now? It's clear Thunderian who holds the upper the hand here, and the constant threat is beneficial to achieve certain political/religious goals. I disdain Hamas and militant tactics but I can understand why an angry teen or twenty something with no prospects might want to join them. Doesn't matter about the past it matters about the now.

You're not in that position as long as you take for granted that the Israelis have no right to be in Palestine, and that anything they do to defend themselves and their people is disproportionate. Or, for the matter, as long as you think the actions of Hamas are at all justified. You can't know the facts and be fair-minded, and continue to hold those positions.
I have never said that Israel has no right to exist. I do not justify Hamas actions, I understand the reasons behind them and that is a big difference.
 





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#18
"What did the Palestinians do? They elected a terrorist organization to lead their people" Do you realize how stupid you sound?