Virginia Riot Or Situation False Flaggish

[mecca]

I just haven't seen anything racist to condemn. I have condemned racism many, many times when I legitimately saw any real, observable attempt to discriminate against a person of a different race.

But it was a white supremacist rally. They had nazi flags and torches and stuff. Some of the white supremacists brought guns with them and they said they weren't afraid of getting violent. A lot of them had weapons and armor. To them, the whole point of all of them gathering there was to show their strength and numbers... they all wanted to gather there to show people that they're not just an internet fringe group. They were trying to validate their racist ideals by grouping with each other and challenging the protesters on the other side.

 

[rainerann]

But it was a white supremacist rally. They had nazi flags and torches and stuff. Some of the white supremacists brought guns with them and they said they weren't afraid of getting violent. A lot of them had weapons and armor. To them, the whole point of all of them gathering there was to show their strength and numbers... they all wanted to gather there to show people that they're not just an internet fringe group. They were trying to validate their racist ideals by grouping with each other and challenging the protesters on the other side.

I'm not finding anything that indicates this was a white supremacist rally that doesn't seem part of the same movement that supported the vandalism and nonsense of the AntiTrump protests. I cannot find one piece of evidence that the "Unite the Right" rally had anything to do with bringing a Nazi flag even if someone did bring one just like many people who went to the Trump protestors wore masks and were destructive of public property.

I could call the Anti Trump protests a vandalism event considering the nonsense that went on then.

On top of that, wasn't it not that long ago that there was something about people from the tea party movement being targeted by the IRS under the Obama administration?

I can't help but feel like this is another attempt to discriminate against people who are passionate about being American and that the news reports of this are no different than being told that Russia hacked the election.

There is no evidence that there was a racial motivation in any way, shape, or form to promote the event. It appears to be solely a demonstration based on the recent vote regarding the historical value of the statue.

Now, if this was a Ku Klux rally to encourage separation from the union so they can go back to the ways of old, then I might feel differently.

But, if this is just about people who are having a difference of opinion over the historical value of a statue, then I just don't see why anyone should be blowing this out of proportion the way they are. This was a local issue. It was already handled by having a vote. The vote concluded that the statue will be removed. The rally won't be able to prevent this. Therefore, it probably will lose steam in about a month and everyone will have gossiped about "white supremacy" for nothing. Like chasing the wind. That is all this is.

 

[mecca]

What I mean is that most of the voices resisting the globalist agenda are coming from the right.

The elite have a nationalist agenda as well though.

But I don't hear anyone on the left speaking against the elite's agenda. Or arguing for less immigration, or fewer social programs, or smaller government. The globalists want to destroy the US as a world power, and no one on the left cares. There are people on the right who still do.

The elite have a bunch of agendas and I think that picking either side on these specific topics means you are supporting some aspect of their agenda. They control all the sides of each issue and the right answer to solving all of these problems probably won't come from either side... it will probably be a mix of a bunch of different things because most situations are pretty complex. Also how do you know that these topics are the only things that matter to the elite? Plus, I don't think that opposing those things you listed means that you're directly supporting the elite's agenda... like I said, they control both sides and they support whichever one is convenient at the time in order for them to achieve whatever goal they want.

 

[mecca]

There is no evidence that there was a racial motivation in any way, shape, or form to promote the event. It appears to be solely a demonstration based on the recent vote regarding the historical value of the statue.

Then why were the people that showed up all white supremacists and neo-nazis? They themselves said that the event was for them. They wanted a gathering of their racist brethren to show that they were stronger than what everyone perceived.

 

[mecca]

But, if this is just about people who are having a difference of opinion over the historical value of a statue, then I just don't see why anyone should be blowing this out of proportion the way they are.

I agree, which is why it's not just about a statue... it was a white supremacist rally. A woman was murdered in an act of terrorism, that's a big deal.

 

[rainerann]

Then why were the people that showed up all white supremacists and neo-nazis? They themselves said that the event was for them. They wanted a gathering of their racist brethren to show that they were stronger than what everyone perceived.

Where are you finding legitimate information saying that this is true that isn't from sources like Occupy Democrats. Here is an article I would consider legitimate journalism. They refer to the Unite the Right movement as protestors. They refer to the people who came from out of town as white nationalists who came in support of retaining the historical statue, and they refer to the man in the car as a white supremacist. Reasonable boundaries defining people without resorting to stereotypes trying to paint a picture that will advocate supporting the left wing biased media that has been present since the primary election began last summer.

http://www.businessinsider.com/protesters-chased-unite-the-right-rally-organizer-jason-kessler-out-of-press-conference-video-2017-8

 

[mecca]

Occupy Democrats

I don't know what this is.

 

[mecca]

Where are you finding legitimate information saying that this is true that isn't from sources like Occupy Democrats. Here is an article I would consider legitimate journalism. They refer to the Unite the Right movement as protestors. They refer to the people who came from out of town as white nationalists who came in support of retaining the historical statue, and they refer to the man in the car as a white supremacist. Reasonable boundaries defining people without resorting to stereotypes trying to paint a picture that will advocate supporting the left wing biased media that has been present since the primary election began last summer.

I watched a video of some interviews of the alt-right protesters. That's what they said, they are white supremacists and they were there to gather together and show their strength and they weren't afraid to fight. They brought weapons and armor and some brought guns. It was a gathering for racists, white supremacists, neo-nazis, the kkk, and people like them. That's who was there.

 

[rainerann]

I watched a video of some interviews of the alt-right protesters. That's what they said, they are white supremacists and they were there to gather together and show their strength and they weren't afraid to fight. They brought weapons and armor and some brought guns. It was a gathering for racists, white supremacists, neo-nazis, the kkk, and people like them. That's who was there.

Please post if possible.

 

[Thunderian]

The elite have a nationalist agenda as well though.

Tell me more.

The elite have a bunch of agendas and I think that picking either side on these specific topics means you are supporting some aspect of their agenda. They control all the sides of each issue and the right answer to solving all of these problems probably won't come from either side... it will probably be a mix of a bunch of different things because most situations are pretty complex.

I disagree. Any educated person can look at an issue and choose their position on it. Some people think globalization is a good thing. Some don't. I don't see how being anti-globalist supports the globalist agenda.

Also how do you know that these topics are the only things that matter to the elite? Plus, I don't think that opposing those things you listed means that you're directly supporting the elite's agenda... like I said, they control both sides and they support whichever one is convenient at the time in order for them to achieve whatever goal they want.

Immigration obviously has bearing on the globalist agenda. The idea is to do away with any kind of national sovereignty, and one way to achieve that is through massive, almost unchecked immigration. The globalists are very clear that they want a world without borders.

Social programs are connected to immigration, since in contrast to way it was when my family immigrated to North America, where my grandparents were given a plot of dirt outside Red Deer, Alberta, and told that if they wanted to stay in Canada, they had to make something of the land, immigrants these days are apt to be shown to an apartment in Toronto or Montreal or Vancouver, where they avail themselves of all the offerings of the government's socialist teat while they wait for their cases to be processed. According to the right, that's not a good model for building a strong country. There are already too many people in North America who get paid by the government to do nothing. Do we need more of them? The left thinks we do.

And small government means more freedom. The elite aren't big on freedom, and that's another reason the US has to go. Whether or not you agree with the way the US had handled it's immense power over the last couple hundred years, the American dream is a real thing, and one that has come true for millions and millions of people. A big part of that dream is the freedom to go and do and be wherever and whatever you want. A government that doesn't regulate every dang thing you do gives you that freedom. If there's one thing the left does well, it's make the government's control central to every freaking thing that goes on. It's kind of their thing. What the globalists want is one world government that controls everything on earth. I mean, what could go wrong, right?

 

[mecca]

Please post if possible.

Some Timestamps to watch in the video:
3:28 - 4:21
("Unite The Right" speaker wants to be violent, thinks donald trump supports his people but he's not racist enough, the gathering was for the racists to promote their ideology)

4:49
(It's about more than just a statue)

7:30 - 8:25
(Neo-nazi says they are showing their strength with this protest)

8:30 - 8:43
(Gathering was for the racists)

15:24 - 15:58
(Donald trump incited these groups and pandered to racist people when he was running for president)

19:09 - 19:40
("Unite The Right" speaker brought a bunch of guns and two AKs and a knife)

19:40 - 21:08
(The murder that occurred was justified to him, he says his people "showed restraint" in the protest although it was very violent)

 

[mecca]

globalist agenda

Globalism isn't negative or positive and there are different aspects to it, I don't see how this topic is the only thing the elite care about. They want control and they try to get it by any means, they support nationalism and globalism when it gets them what they want and neither globalism or nationalism will be favorable to the people if the ones pushing these things are the elites. Whatever form of government we have, it will not work out for us if we're all oppressed by rich elite people.

they want a world without borders

They want the new world order which will give them control over everyone and everything but if someone on the left (or right) doesn't support locking down our borders, it doesn't mean that they support the new world order as well. It's all just an opinion.

 

[The Zone]

No, not slanted, edited VICE.

 

[rainerann]

Some Timestamps to watch in the video:
3:28 - 4:21
("Unite The Right" speaker wants to be violent, thinks donald trump supports his people but he's not racist enough, the gathering was for the racists to promote their ideology)

4:49
(It's about more than just a statue)

7:30 - 8:25
(Neo-nazi says they are showing their strength with this protest)

8:30 - 8:43
(Gathering was for the racists)

15:24 - 15:58
(Donald trump incited these groups and pandered to racist people when he was running for president)

19:09 - 19:40
("Unite The Right" speaker brought a bunch of guns and two AKs and a knife)

19:40 - 21:08
(The murder that occurred was justified to him, he says his people "showed restraint" in the protest although it was very violent)

Yah, so I don't agree with most of your timestamps. Most of the documentary is following the guy from the first time stamp, I would think because he does present a more severe ideology. He is expressing why he is there, not why the gathering is taking place.

She says that it was about the statue in the next time stamp, but continues to say that it was also about demonstrating that they are a real presence that is more than just an internet meme. I found that a little misleading. I am not sure what you are trying to say in pointing out that time stamp. It doesn't prove anything in regard to this being an "white supremacist" rally.

7:30-8:25 clip of Neo Nazi is part of the one group the reporter follows with the same guy from the first time stamp. It was a very limited presentation of the people there to project that this is what everyone at the rally believed. The guy from the first clip is sitting in the same car as the NeoNazi guy. She hasn't even found anyone new to interview about this to present a balanced view.

The clip at 15:24 that you claim is somehow evidence that Donald Trump incited this group is based on one man's opinion who seems like a nice guy. He speaks for a second at one of the more pleasant anti rally groups about remembering the stories his grandfather told him that this day reminds him of, and how Trump incited this. I think he is a nice guy, but his statement can only be considered opinion and there is no reference to when or where Trump can be credited with inciting this event.

The guy at 19:09 is the same guy from the first clip at 3:48 so basically three out of seven of the clips that you are highlighting in order to conclude that this was a white supremacist event were all from the same group of people who came together. In the van, there were about seven of them altogether.

However, the guy at around 10:56 seems to think that it was exciting to have the largest nationalist rally in the United States, kind of indicating that there was some patriotic foundation to this that was inspired because they are removing the statue. He describes the event as promoting nationalism, which has been a political disagreement between the right and the left since the election. The left has been calling the right racists since this point. However, patriotism does not prove that someone is racist. It just demonstrates that this person has strong feelings about America existing in a way they have idealized. That he came to be with people who agreed with this point of you that was inspired because the statue is going to be removed.

Then, at 17:22 there is a clip of what I expected to see when the remnant of the anti Trump protestors pull out their bag of tricks that they have displayed since the election. From this clip, I do agree that Trump is justified in saying that there was damage done by both sides. These people just blatantly harass this man who I guess was the one who organized the rally that they had permits for apparently. They were legally allowed to hold the rally. It would have been over and done with if people had just let them have their rally knowing that it would not affect the vote. It would not really change anything. The anti-rally movement wasn't any more effective in creating change than this white nationalist movement. It is just basically the same thing that has been discussed since the election and is going to lead to a national state of emergency across the country if people don't start learning how to control their emotions.

Kessler says to the crowd just displaying horrible decorum. "It really is a sad day in our constitutional democracy when we are not able to have civil liberties like the First Amendment. That's what leads to rational discussion and ideas breaking down and people resorting to violence."

Then, some people from the crowd leave the boundaries given for him to speak and get up in his face shouting profanities. So from what I can see, the left contributed a great deal to why this event was declared a state of emergency. This man is straight yelling in Kessler's face that he should be indicted for murder. He wasn't driving the car. That was completely unprofessional and uncalled for.

This crowd follows him and physically attacks him. The state police have to intervene to protect Kessler from the leftist mob.

This same thing is seen several times in the video as well, but I guess that doesn't matter because they are "white supremacists."

At 5:22 someone in the crowd tries to start physically attacking the alt-right that is walking through the street. The same guy from the group that is followed through the video is maced by someone in the anti-rally movement at around 6:00. He says its the second time it happened in two days, indicating that the anti-rally movement was actually a rather violent movement of their own like I expected considering the previous events that have taken place since the election.

Very similar to when Milo was supposed to speak at Berkeley this behavior was, in my opinion. I also don't feel that a Vice's presentation of an estimated 15 minutes of a 22 minute presentation following one group determines that this was a "white supremacist" rally.

So I guess I will still have to wait for a more unbiased presentation that can demonstrate to me that this was a "white supremacist" gathering.

 

[Lady]

Serious Question:
Were there chants of "Whites rule, all others drool," for example? What was the message of this rally-unite those of the white race or to reign supreme over the other races? I have not followed the news on this too closely due to time constraints, nor have I had time to read through most of this thread to see if the rally message was addressed either.

 

[Faker He-Man]

So I guess I will still have to wait for a more unbiased presentation that can demonstrate to me that this was a "white supremacist" gathering.

"We're trying to do a pro-white demonstration," "We're trying to show that folks can stand up for white people. The political correctness has gotten way out of control, and the only way to fight back against it has been to stand up for our own interests." - Jason Kessler, the organizer and permit-holder

It's sort of silly to claim this was not a white-supremacist demonstration. Granted, a very broad spectrum of groups showed up, such as the "Proud Boys", patriot groups, militia, other anti-immigration groups etc. who are not necessarily extremists, but did choose to align themselves with the neo-nazis and other extremist groups for this particular event, thus the "unite the right" moniker which they were very clear about being a signal for uniting with these extremists toward a common goal. All of these groups were aware that the neo-nazi Daily Stormer clubs, the KKK and other genocidal extremist groups planned on showing up in droves to join their ranks, and obviously had no ethical qualms about choosing to participate anyway.

 

[Lady]

The quote from Kessler does not seem supremacist in nature when taken in context of current events. It is not news to most in the western world that there is an attack now on the white race.

Unfortunately, some fringe groups, which I personally would run a fast sprint to get away from, were involved in the rally which convoluted the message of unity into something it was not meant to be.
Guilt by association, seems to be the verdict here.

 

[mecca]

there is an attack now on the white race

No there isn't, white people are fine in America... they're not treated any different.

 

[rainerann]

"We're trying to do a pro-white demonstration," "We're trying to show that folks can stand up for white people. The political correctness has gotten way out of control, and the only way to fight back against it has been to stand up for our own interests." - Jason Kessler, the organizer and permit-holder

It's sort of silly to claim this was not a white-supremacist demonstration. Granted, a very broad spectrum of groups showed up, such as the "Proud Boys", patriot groups, militia, other anti-immigration groups etc. who are not necessarily extremists, but did choose to align themselves with the neo-nazis and other extremist groups for this particular event, thus the "unite the right" moniker which they were very clear about being a signal for uniting with these extremists toward a common goal. All of these groups were aware that the neo-nazi Daily Stormer clubs, the KKK and other genocidal extremist groups planned on showing up in droves to join their ranks, and obviously had no ethical qualms about choosing to participate anyway.

I think you make a reasonable conclusion that I can agree with. It was more of a white nationalist gathering with white supremacists present. It didn't seem like it was inherently a violent demonstration or created with the intention of giving racist speeches, and they had permits for their event, and they could have just been left alone to come and go. I just don't really see their attempt to demonstrate numbers as threatening our present laws and protections of different races, so I think the response is completely blown out of proportion.

Personally, I do support a nationalist message, I just don't support a nationalist message based on race, so this isn't something I would ever want to be a part of, but I still believed they had the right to have the event without being harassed or physically assaulted for it. In reality, they didn't really have that many people attending even. I think the number 2000 has been thrown out there. In this blog post it says there were around 50 clansmen present wearing their garb. That seems like a realistic number.

The clan has progressively dropped in membership over the past 60 years to being represented by 50 people at this event. Really, that is something to be encouraged by, not having the conniption fit some of these people seemed to be having. Just think about how much has changed to create that. If this was 1965, how many clansmen would have been present? There is really a lot that we have to be grateful for today, and the numbers from this rally proved this.

They really had some very puny numbers for people to get worked up over. This blog post says there were more people part of the anti rally than part of the rally. It just seems way blown out of proportion by the media. It is like the news media is advertising this the same way Pepsi advertises soda.

http://hellogiggles.com/kkk-rally-charlottesville-protest/

 

[Thunderian]

"We're trying to do a pro-white demonstration," "We're trying to show that folks can stand up for white people. The political correctness has gotten way out of control, and the only way to fight back against it has been to stand up for our own interests." - Jason Kessler, the organizer and permit-holder

It's sort of silly to claim this was not a white-supremacist demonstration. Granted, a very broad spectrum of groups showed up, such as the "Proud Boys", patriot groups, militia, other anti-immigration groups etc. who are not necessarily extremists, but did choose to align themselves with the neo-nazis and other extremist groups for this particular event, thus the "unite the right" moniker which they were very clear about being a signal for uniting with these extremists toward a common goal. All of these groups were aware that the neo-nazi Daily Stormer clubs, the KKK and other genocidal extremist groups planned on showing up in droves to join their ranks, and obviously had no ethical qualms about choosing to participate anyway.

The Proud Boys stayed away because of the white supremacists.