vice: "the rise of the crisis actor conspiracy movement"

A.J.

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And can't forget Robbie Parker....he told so many contradictions...first he was at the school, then he was coming home from work....the guy was all over the place...and that crazy Rosen dude....yeah, they weren't trying very hard....that's the strangest part of all... Yeah it's not staged well, now what are you gonna do about it? .... nothing :(
 
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polymoog

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My mother would have removed my head for dropping f-bombs like that. I think she still would, tbh. :D

He seems very sincere.. which, in the grand scheme, means jack. My perspective these days is that the media does not always report the truth, and we know it-- so we really have no idea what is the truth, and what is not. Anything is possible-- the inconsistencies and oddities (oh.. are we filming? *wipes smile from face and tries to look like his dog-- no his kid-- was just murdered*) though are too much to NOT consider the possibility of deceit, in the extreme.

Something that always stuck with me is some author's intro-- the first step to controlling a state/country/ nation is to disarm the people. But it's not just gun control, anymore.. it's information control. I shudder.

You?

P.S. Alex Jones imo is owned, or very close to it. I didn't know he backpedaled but it doesn't surprise me.
jones was one of the first to call out sandy hoax. when he was threatened with a lawsuit, he backpedaled and said that people really did die there (which is wrong-- NO ONE died there). from jones POV, he has his media empire to worry about if he loses his court battle. that, i believe, was his rationale, or at least the rationale he gave to sandy hook truthers. for hard core truthers, he dropped the ball because he could have proven the whole hoax in court with all of the news and media watching.

regarding sidethorn: IMO, hes a truth-extremist, not unlike people who approach joe biden and let him know that the world knows about him. the problem is, as rainerann said, with such a gung-ho attitude, he can easily turn off uncommitted folks who are not aware of the FF hoaxes all over country. he does a service and a disservice in his approach, but i get the impression he is a good guy with good intentions.

the video was slanted to portray the truth movement as nutty internet people. they would never show some real evidence illustrating how sandy hook was just a drill.
 

polymoog

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When I use that same argument against you. It destroys you. You all want me to believe that the SH victims suing Alex Jones are actors. When they are doing and being more real than anyone here. So maybe the only ones following the script are all of you. Maybe you are all the actors and controlled opposition and we should all ignore you.
no, i dont care whether you believe sandy hoax was real or not. youre free to believe anything you like. but if you think it was real, then you absolutely have not looked into it at all. had you looked into it, like 9-11, you would be typing the message i am typing to you to someone else.

go check out the thread on the subject here, and download the free book by jim fetzer.
rense.com/general96/NobodyDiedAtSandyHook_final.pdf
 

polymoog

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If people believe someone is telling the truth just because they claim to represent alternate media, that is a weakness that can easily be exploited. The investigations of false flag events have really declined in terms of quality as far as I'm concerned over the years, and this could be caused by the other side exploiting a weakness.
last years YT purge knocked out a lot of good investigators and researchers. the fact that YT needed to purge these channels who were questioning these events should tell you all you need to know.
 

polymoog

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Another thing, I just don't see the purpose of these so called shooting false flags because they are getting nowhere basically. Cooper wrote about gun GRABS in the early 90's, but now they are not even able to increase gun control. And I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want a paranoid schizo having the right to own a gun. So gun control is not necessarily a bad thing. But they aren't able to do limited gun control, so the shooting false flag theory is bunk.
tptb are having a hard time getting americans to give up their guns in spite of these FF hoaxes. that said, they are taking different angles on it. they are legislating for smaller number of rounds in each clip and i just read an article today at lunch about how they want to pass a law against older people owning guns (i cant recall the specifics in the article). anyway, tptb are incrementally attacking the 2nd amendment, FF hoaxes or not.
no-- i wouldnt want a paranoid schizo owning a gun, but i wouldnt my right to have a gun taken away because of a paranoid schizo (not to mention the criteria of being a 'paranoid schizo'--- will that be the new term for "conspiracy theorist'?) the criminal element will always have guns. whether law abiding citizens will have that right remains to be seen.
 

elsbet

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last years YT purge knocked out a lot of good investigators and researchers. the fact that YT needed to purge these channels who were questioning these events should tell you all you need to know.
Yes, they really did.

And like @rainerann said, the quality has also decreased-- anytime a legitimate investigation comes along, the site is flooded with copycats that are just embarrassing e.g. Sandy Hook Hoax: Reptilian Spotted!!! Actual footage!!

I feel bad for authentic YT people who become overwhelmed (until they get their footing.. the stronger ones usually rally) with negative comments-- but if you're not getting negative feedback, you're not doing it right. :)
 

Helioform

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that said, they are taking different angles on it. they are legislating for smaller number of rounds in each cli
That would be for auto or semi-auto weapons I think. I don't see what would be the harm in that. Civilians shouldn't even be able to buy those in the first place imo. Why would anyone need that much firepower if it's not to massacre a bunch of individuals? Even if you use the excuse that it's for resisting a militarized police force -- the fact is that you will get owned anyway because they have the latest weaponry and are trained to take down their targets. And using the resistance logic, the escalation of weapon upgrading will only increase. Up to the point that some people will want this to be like GTA, and run around with rocket launchers.


i wouldnt want a paranoid schizo owning a gun, but i wouldnt my right to have a gun taken away because of a paranoid schizo (not to mention the criteria of being a 'paranoid schizo'--- will that be the new term for "conspiracy theorist'?) the criminal element will always have guns. whether law abiding citizens will have that right remains to be seen
They will probably never take away the guns of americans no matter what. Paranoid schizophrenia is often associated with conspiracy theorists so yeah, it could be. But having known a few real paranoid schizos, I definitely would not want them able to own a gun.

Criminals will always have guns yeah, and since selling weapons is such a lucrative business--it will not stop anytime soon. But that doesn't mean people should have the right to buy any kind of weaponry and walk around like a one (wo)man army.
 

Awoken2

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Also, the so called false flags didn't do ANYTHING for the gun control agenda. It even did the opposite, more people want to buy guns to protect themselves. So either they are really powerless or not as powerful as some claim, or these were real incidents caused by people who were just mentally ill. It could also be real events that the PTB are trying to use for their gun control agenda, even though they aren't going anywhere with it.[/QU
tptb are having a hard time getting americans to give up their guns in spite of these FF hoaxes.
It's the drip drip effect, slowly affecting a countries collective psyche to the point where people will happily hand in their weapons.

There have been 18 school shootings in the U.S so far this year and we are only in July. So the growing angle on this now is "well if you support our right to keep semi automatic weapons you are basically propagating this mass slaughter of our poor school children".

As far as I can see it's just one big psy-op.
 

Karlysymon

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What else did he expect? He isn't Joe Public.
The fact that he appeared on Jones' show makes me even more suspicious of the whole thing. Jones is usually not there to spread truth, but to mix it with alt right propaganda (pro gun nuts approval for the most part) and outright fabrication.

Also, the so called false flags didn't do ANYTHING for the gun control agenda. It even did the opposite, more people want to buy guns to protect themselves. So either they are really powerless or not as powerful as some claim, or these were real incidents caused by people who were just mentally ill. It could also be real events that the PTB are trying to use for their gun control agenda, even though they aren't going anywhere with it.
Just because someone appeared on his show, once or twice, doesn't mean whatever they discussed is or isn't legitimate. The professor really investigated the event, and was widely referenced in alt-media, naturally enough, he had to end up on Jones' show.

Alex stopped featuring the work of many legitimate, alt-media heavy hitters and that ended it for me.

I don't think the false flags are primarily about gun control. TPTB always try to kill 10 birds with one stone.
 
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The "crisis actor" thing is more or less something to discredit conspiracy theorists, just like th "Antifa" attacks on innocent people are a tool to discredit anarchists. (True Antifa has used violence, back in the 80's and early 90's, but it was largely in self-defense against actual neo-nazis. Since then, they've been largely protesting globalism.)
 

Helioform

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I don't think the false flags are primarily about gun control. TPTB always try to kill 10 birds with one stone.
What would the shooting FF be about in your opinion? Other than a ritual or a way to cause trauma on the population, those being a more legitimate explanation in my view.
 

Aero

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Wolfgang Halbig? Wow you all are seriously behind the times. And seriously ignoring evidence that counters all the circumstantial garbage. Lenny Ponzer spent 5 years trying to prove his dead child really died in Sandy Hook. He produced report cards, pictures and a death certificate. And he was told by every Sandy Hoaxer that it wasn't good enough. Finally he had enough and sued Halbig. So naturally... He must be in on it.

That is called a canceling hypothesis fallacy. Also called a conspiracy theory. And the CIA didn't invent it.

"Explaining that your claim cannot be proven or verified because the truth is being hidden and/or evidence destroyed by a group of two or more people. When that reason is challenged as not being true or accurate, the challenge is often presented as just another attempt to cover up the truth and presented as further evidence that the original claim is true."


The crisis actor thing, is called a "Strawman argument". Because if you peddle that sort of thing, than you are a false witness.

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle
 

Karlysymon

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What would the shooting FF be about in your opinion? Other than a ritual or a way to cause trauma on the population, those being a more legitimate explanation in my view.
I consider those aswell. Sometimes, its a perfect distraction from whatever embarassing political scandals that are current. Also, after the Florida school shooting, some comments by Trump were dredged up, to the effect that "we are in need of an event to unite this country."
 

A.J.

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Wolfgang Halbig? Wow you all are seriously behind the times. And seriously ignoring evidence that counters all the circumstantial garbage. Lenny Ponzer spent 5 years trying to prove his dead child really died in Sandy Hook. He produced report cards, pictures and a death certificate. And he was told by every Sandy Hoaxer that it wasn't good enough. Finally he had enough and sued Halbig. So naturally... He must be in on it.

That is called a canceling hypothesis fallacy. Also called a conspiracy theory. And the CIA didn't invent it.

"Explaining that your claim cannot be proven or verified because the truth is being hidden and/or evidence destroyed by a group of two or more people. When that reason is challenged as not being true or accurate, the challenge is often presented as just another attempt to cover up the truth and presented as further evidence that the original claim is true."


The crisis actor thing, is called a "Strawman argument". Because if you peddle that sort of thing, than you are a false witness.

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle
Interesting, no, I'm not sold on Wolfgang or Ponzer....but you think Sandy Hook is legit? Lots of smoke around that one, and Im not talking gun smoke
 

A.J.

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On 12/14/12, a 6’0”, 112 lb, anorexic kid, who could barely tie his own shoes, who had such a profound fear of touching metal that he couldn’t touch door knobs, shot 152 rounds in under 6 minutes, stopping to reload no less than 6 times with a 94% kill ratio, killing 20 children and 6 adults, and then, using a separate weapon, shot himself “intra-orally” (coroner’s report), in the back of the head (police report). They never checked for fingerprints, and DNA evidence found on the weapons “excludes him as a contributor”. The neighbors had never heard of him. Despite being reported as being a “gamer”, he had no online footprint, no Instagram, no Facebook, no Twitter no nothin’. Parents appear, within days of the event, on TV talking about how they “forgive the shooter” and want to focus on gun control. Their demeanor is not one of grief and morbid loss, but of resiliency and determination. This defies logic to me, having been around people who have experienced loss. It makes no sense. When the Police Report is released almost a year after, it is so heavily redacted that it is unintelligible. Even those such as the Office of the Child Advocate, who were assigned to make recommendations based on the report, claimed that it was an indecipherable data dump. Every single victim’s name was redacted. Every single image that showed a victim was redacted, including the images of “the shooter”. The small amount of evidence that had been released contradicted many of the things we had been told by the media. Obviously, someone was lying ! Then the school is demolished as every person working on the site has to sign a non-disclosure agreement. Why ? Then the house is somehow sold to the Town who has the contents incinerated and the $500,000 home destroyed. Why? Then people want to attack me and anyone else who dares to ask questions pertaining to this story? This story is being used to change gun laws, mental health laws, school security measures, and to attack our 1st Amendment rights. You better believe I’m asking questions !! EVERYBODY should be asking questions !!​
We are told that on December 14, 2012, a lone gunman, Adam Lanza, went to Sandy Hook Elementary School (SHES) in Newtown, Connecticut, where in the space of 11 minutes, shot and killed 20 first-graders and 6 adults.
We are also told that after the massacre, SHES relocated to an empty school in neighboring Monroe, CT — Chalk Hill Middle School at 375 Fan Hill Rd. — until a new swanky SHES was rebuilt with the $50 million from the state of Connecticut as a result of the shooting massacre.
It turns out that SHES had moved to Chalk Hill months before the alleged massacre, which leads to this question:
Since SHES had moved to Monroe, who, then, were the students and teachers whom Lanza shot to death at SHES on December 14, 2012?​
The evidence of SHES’s move to Chalk Hill comes from Wolfgang W. Halbig, a humble straight-talking 71-year-old man with an impressive professional record as a law enforcement officer (U.S. Customs inspector and Florida state trooper), an educator (public school coach, teacher, assistant principal and principal), and a nationally-recognized school safety consultant who was an expert witness in the Columbine and other school shootings.
Below is his biographical sketch:

On Feb. 13, 2014, Halbig became a public face of Sandy Hook skeptics when, in a radio interview with Dave Gahary of American Free Press, he called the school shooting a “contrived event,” i.e., fake.
For publicly questioning the authenticity of the official Sandy Hook narrative, Halbig is targeted with harassment, physical threats, and civil lawsuits.
Last year, Halbig was sued by Leonard Pozner, the father of Sandy Hook victim, 6-year-old Noah Pozner. Curiously, at the very point in the lawsuit when Leonard was supposed to present a video deposition, he dropped the lawsuit. (Source: Olive Branch Report)
Note: That may be because “Leonard Pozner” doesn’t actually exist, according to marriage and family therapist Mona Alexis, who maintains that “Leonard Pozner” is the alias of a man named Reuben Vabner, and that pics of the 6-year-old Noah Pozner are actually the younger pics of now grown-up Michael Vabner. A search on two paid-subscription people-search engines, Spokeo and TruthFinder, indicates that there is no “Leonard Pozner” in Florida, Connecticut, or the entire U.S. of A. Nor is there a “Leonard Pozner” or a “Noah Pozner” among the family members of Leonard’s ex-wife and mother of Noah, Veronique Patricia Pozner, who is also known as Veronique Vabner. Interestingly, on September 11, 2012, three months before the SHES massacre, Veronique had filed for bankruptcy.
The latest lawsuit against Halbig is a civil lawsuit by six Sandy Hook families.
A major contention of Sandy Hook skeptics is that Sandy Hook Elementary School (SHES) had been closed for some time before the alleged massacre on December 14, 2012. The skeptics point to the following evidence (see “Sandy Hook hoax: 6 signs that school was closed before massacre”):
  1. Years before the “massacre,” the school was reported to be in disrepair and contaminated with environmental toxins, including the deadly asbestos.
  2. Absence of legally-required designated handicapped parking spaces and signage in the many aerial photographic and video images of the school’s parking lot taken by news media on the day of the “massacre”.
  3. Testimony from the Internet Archive’s Wayback Machine of the school’s lack of Internet activity from the beginning of 2008 through all of 2012.
  4. Refusal on the part of the State of Connecticut Freedom of Information Commission to provide Halbig with documents he’d requested, invoking the Freedom of Information Act: SHES maintenance orders and emails from SHES principal Dawn Hochsprung to food services provider in the months immediately preceding the “massacre” — remember this!
  5. Photographic evidence of an abandoned school from the State of Connecticut’s Department of Emergency Services and Public Protection — of a dangerous, exposed metal rod on an exterior staircase; and classrooms and hallways jammed with furniture and office supplies in clear violation of the fire safety code. Below is one example:

All of which would explain why aerial footage and police dash-cam videos curiously show no hundreds of students being evacuated from SHES on the day of the “massacre”.
Now, Halbig has received stunning evidence of SHES’s closure and the removal of its teachers and students to Chalk Hill School in Monroe, CT, months before the “massacre”. The evidence consists of:
  1. An email exchange between SHES’s principal and school custodian on moving the school.
  2. An invoice from Dean Foods of a food delivery to SHES at Chalk Hill Middle School in Monroe, CT.
  3. A spreadsheet listing invoices of Dean Foods deliveries to SHES in Monroe.
  4. An email from an employee of Dean Foods confirming that the food deliveries were sent to SHES in Monroe.
  5. A USAC form indicating that services were provided Chalk Hill Middle School although that school hasn’t been used by the Monroe school district since June 2011.
(1) email on moving SHES
On July 19, 2012, SHES principal Dawn Hochsprung exchanged conspiratorial-toned (“mum’s the word”) email with school custodian Kevin Anzellotti, bemoaning the moving of SHES:
Hochsprung: “How does this look? NOT set in stone! I have to notify teachers after we meet next Thursday, then we can get moving. Of course, they will need to come in and pack…. This is going to be really hard!”
Anzellotti: “I got it and it is what it is it’s bad for us but I would not what [sic] to be in your shoes as your [sic] telling them but all still have jobs I guess that’s a good thing mums the word.”
Below is a screenshot of the exchange:

(2) Food service invoice
Dean Foods is a national food and beverage company and the largest dairy company in the United States. Headquartered in Dallas, Texas, the company has 66 manufacturing facilities and distributes its products across all 50 states. Here is Dean Foods’ website.
On April 26, 2012, 8 months before the alleged massacre, Dean Foods prepared an invoice of an order from Sandy Hook Elementary School for “American/Continental” style cuisine. Strangely, the food was to be sent not to SHES’s address at 12 Dickinson Drive, Sandy Hook, CT 06482, but to the address of Chalk Hill Middle School at 375 Fan Hill Rd., Monroe, CT.
Below is a screenshot of the invoice (click image to enlarge):

(3) Dean Foods Spreadsheet
Below is a screenshot of the Spreadsheet listing 15 invoices from September 1, 2012 to December 15, 2012, for food deliveries to SHES at 375 Fan Hill Road in Monroe:

(4) Email from Dean Foods Employee
Halbig received the invoice and spreadsheet from X, an employee of Dean Foods. I have verified the identity of X on LinkedIn, but I’m not revealing X’s name to protect his/her life. Halbig fully intends to introduce X’s emails, the invoice and spreadsheet as evidence should the malicious lawsuit against him goes to trial.
Below is the email from X, confirming that the food orders from SHES were all delivered to the Chalk Hill Middle School address in Monroe, CT. I’ve blacked out the sender’s name:

(5) USAC Form 471
After reading the above, the alert reader might ask: “If Sandy Hook Elementary School was moved to Chalk Hill Middle School in Monroe, what happened to Chalk Hill’s own teachers and students?”
Here’s the answer: Chalk Hill Middle School has been empty since June 2011!
From a news report in CTPost on April 30, 2017:
Chalk Hill Middle School opened in the fall of 1969 to about 900 students. Now it sits forlorn and locked up with no apparent plan for its future…. Ideas range from the wrecking ball to recasting it as a community center to using it as offices for various town agencies. It hasn’t been used by the Monroe school district since the end of the 2010-11 school year.​
Though officially empty since June 2011, Chalk Hill Middle School curiously applied for broadband and Internet connectivity services from Universal Service Administrative Company (USAC), as indicated in an USAC Application Form 471 on March 13, 2012 (see screenshot below). All U.S. public schools and libraries are required by the FCC to use USAC Form 471.
https://stoplookthink.com/wolfgang-halbig-has-stunning-evidence-that-sandy-hook-elementary-school-was-closed-months-before-massacre/
 

elsbet

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I consider those aswell. Sometimes, its a perfect distraction from whatever embarassing political scandals that are current. Also, after the Florida school shooting, some comments by Trump were dredged up, to the effect that "we are in need of an event to unite this country."
Ha! Yeah, Reagan said ALIENS would take care of that. Politicians are psychologically bent. :rolleyes:
 
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And can't forget Robbie Parker....he told so many contradictions...first he was at the school, then he was coming home from work....the guy was all over the place...and that crazy Rosen dude....yeah, they weren't trying very hard....that's the strangest part of all... Yeah it's not staged well, now what are you gonna do about it? .... nothing :(
It's not strange at all once you realize that they also created most of the sandy hook conspiracy memes, such as the ones in your post. ;)
 

A.J.

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It's not strange at all once you realize that they also created most of the sandy hook conspiracy memes, such as the ones in your post. ;)
How do you know? What's your proof? I mean that would kinda make sense I guess
 
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