VCF Christian Fellowship

The VCF should enable…

  • Christian perspectives on events

    Votes: 7 87.5%
  • Encouragement

    Votes: 7 87.5%
  • Sharing experiences

    Votes: 7 87.5%
  • Prayer

    Votes: 7 87.5%
  • Friendship

    Votes: 7 87.5%
  • Sharing helpful teaching

    Votes: 6 75.0%
  • Fostering understanding of different points of view

    Votes: 2 25.0%

  • Total voters
    8
  • Poll closed .

Lurking009

Veteran
Joined
Mar 19, 2018
Messages
638
As a matter of curiosity, how many decades would you let your family be locked in a neighborhood where water is cut off a few days per week, after you've pulled your child out of a bombed out apartment building or been having been shot by a sniper for venturing too near the boarder, before you did something about it? Not to condone violence by the Hamas, but I assume you would let your family be killed around you and not do anything about it, you are saying?

You seem awfully indignant about any retaliation when a minority is oppressed with no course but to let themselves be regularly bombed in their civil centers.
There is no justification for the r*pe and murder of babies, children, and women. Ever.
There is no justification for celebrating r*pe and murder. Ever.
I would say the EXACT same thing if Israel had done this.
Barbaric subhuman behavior should never be excused and tolerated.

How many times has Hamas proven themselves to be the bloodthirsty terrorists they are and provoked a response? It goes both ways.

Hamas could have chosen to deal face to face with the military and attack bases. They CHOSE to go after babies, children, and women first and take hostages... or what you call 'retaliation'. And you are apparently ok with that.

Before you bring up the past, the massacre on Saturday is a singular event planned and executed by Hamas and by choice. Nothing in the past excuses what just happened in the present.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Mar 30, 2017
Messages
3,586
There is no justification for the r*pe and murder of babies, children, and women. Ever.
There is no justification for celebrating r*pe and murder. Ever.
I would say the EXACT same thing if it were Israel doing this.
Barbaric subhuman behavior should never be excused and tolerated.

Hamas could have chosen to deal face to face with the military and attack bases. They CHOSE to go after babies, children, and women first and take many hostages. And you are apparently ok with that.
If you have proof of this, please source it. Just because someone says it happened, does not make it so. Remember this as well:


 
Joined
May 18, 2018
Messages
4,046
There is no justification for the r*pe and murder of babies, children, and women. Ever.
There is no justification for celebrating r*pe and murder. Ever.
I would say the EXACT same thing if Israel had done this.
Barbaric subhuman behavior should never be excused and tolerated.

How many times has Hamas proven themselves to be the bloodthirsty terrorists they are and provoked a response? It goes both ways.

Hamas could have chosen to deal face to face with the military and attack bases. They CHOSE to go after babies, children, and women first and take hostages... or what you call 'retaliation'. And you are apparently ok with that.

Before you bring up the past, the massacre on Saturday is a singular event planned and executed by Hamas and by choice. Nothing in the past excuses what just happened in the present.
Israel does that regularly. It is literally part of their military policy to kill people in Gaza that have nothing to do with combat and collectively punish them. You can watch videos on youtube of Israeli snipers killing children and laughing saying, ok you get the one with the pink shirt now!

So how many decades would you let this go on I asked? Living in a prison neighborhood where your apartment building has been bombed.

So why would hamas even attack if they knew Israel would murder their people without distinction? Its because Netenyahu, in order to escape his third corruption charge and jail time, has surrounded himself with the most bloodthirsty zionists that exist, that literally are calling to genocide the Palestinians and take the rest of their land. They all sound a lot like you in your post up their, calling them animals that should all be murdered. They are left with no choice but to do SOMETHING, if the rhetoric in Israel is currently to go from keeping them in a prison neighborhood to killing them all. Sounds like you believe this along side them, an entire people should be murdered for who they are, if if they don't like it, murder them faster.

What would you do if your family was in this scenario, genuinely curious.
 
Joined
May 18, 2018
Messages
4,046
Note to any non-Christians:
This is a strictly Christian thread. I'm going to respect the origin of this thread and I expect others to do the same.
You don't get to fling shit and then say you are respecting the origins of the thread and back out.
 

Lurking009

Veteran
Joined
Mar 19, 2018
Messages
638
Israel does that regularly. It is literally part of their military policy to kill people in Gaza that have nothing to do with combat and collectively punish them. You can watch videos on youtube of Israeli snipers killing children and laughing saying, ok you get the one with the pink shirt now!

So how many decades would you let this go on I asked? Living in a prison neighborhood where your apartment building has been bombed.

So why would hamas even attack if they knew Israel would murder their people without distinction? Its because Netenyahu, in order to escape his third corruption charge and jail time, has surrounded himself with the most bloodthirsty zionists that exist, that literally are calling to genocide the Palestinians and take the rest of their land. They all sound a lot like you in your post up their, calling them animals that should all be murdered. They are left with no choice but to do SOMETHING, if the rhetoric in Israel is currently to go from keeping them in a prison neighborhood to killing them all. Sounds like you believe this along side them, an entire people should be murdered for who they are, if if they don't like it, murder them faster.

What would you do if your family was in this scenario, genuinely curious.
I don't see that you've participated in this thread before. If you are not Christian and do not agree with the doctrinal statement in post #1, please refrain from posting. This is only fair for the folks who come here specifically to discuss Christian issues amongst themselves. There are other threads to discuss Israel and Hamas.
 
Joined
May 18, 2018
Messages
4,046
I don't see that you've participated in this thread before. If you are not Christian and do not agree with the doctrinal statement in post #1, please refrain from posting. This is only fair for the folks who come here specifically to discuss Christian issues amongst themselves. There are other threads to discuss Israel and Hamas.
I am Christian and have no problem with the first post. You would rather deflect than accept you hold a hypocritical and malinformed stance than humbly change your point of view, eschewing Christian virtue.
 

Lurking009

Veteran
Joined
Mar 19, 2018
Messages
638
I am Christian and have no problem with the first post. You would rather deflect than accept you hold a hypocritical and malinformed stance than humbly change your point of view, eschewing Christian virtue.
I am honestly not deflecting. There are so many other threads dragged off topic and people disrespecting the wishes of the OP so I'm very sensitive to that. It's not fair to the people who come here for Christian fellowship esp. when there are a plethora of other threads available.

My answer in post #401 is my final answer to you. It's not up for debate with me because there is no excuse for Saturday's cowardly massacre. None.
 
Joined
May 18, 2018
Messages
4,046
I am honestly not deflecting. There are so many other threads dragged off topic and people disrespecting the wishes of the OP so I'm very sensitive to that. It's not fair to the people who come here for Christian fellowship esp. when there are a plethora of other threads available.

My answer in post #401 is my final answer to you. It's not up for debate with me because there is no excuse for Saturday's cowardly massacre. None.
You began the conversation here. Why don't you answer my question as a final statement, how many decades would you let your family be locked in a neighborhood where water is cut off for several days a week and the apartment you live in is regularly bombed for collective punishment before you did something about it, or would you allow your family to be treated like this and go on having kids and letting them be killed, only to have more kids and think nothing of it for decades? If nothing can be an excuse for Saturdays massacre after all, not even the regular killing of your children and denying you medical aid and water because you happened to be born in the wrong place and wrong century, given that Muslims and jews lived in peace in Palestine for thousands of years before the zionists.
 

Lurking009

Veteran
Joined
Mar 19, 2018
Messages
638
You began the conversation here. Why don't you answer my question as a final statement, how many decades would you let your family be locked in a neighborhood where water is cut off for several days a week and the apartment you live in is regularly bombed for collective punishment before you did something about it, or would you allow your family to be treated like this and go on having kids and letting them be killed, only to have more kids and think nothing of it for decades? If nothing can be an excuse for Saturdays massacre after all, not even the regular killing of your children and denying you medical aid and water because you happened to be born in the wrong place and wrong century, given that Muslims and jews lived in peace in Palestine for thousands of years before the zionists.
You: "What would you do if your family..."

Me: "There is no justification or excuse for the r*pe and murder of innocents. None."

You: "But what would you do if your family..."

Me: "There is no justification or excuse for the r*pe and murder of innocents. None."

You: "But what would you do if your family..."

Me: "There is no justification or excuse for the r*pe and murder of innocents. None."

See the problem? Enough is enough. We will not see eye to eye on this, period. My initial observation is also part of a much larger picture of how people today justify r*pe, murder and rabid anti-semitism just as they did in 1930's. We are headed again in that direction. It's your choice as to whether you will be part of that movement or not.

As a Christian, I will not support, tolerate, excuse, or justify the r*pe and murder of innocent people. End of story.
 
Joined
May 18, 2018
Messages
4,046
You: "What would you do if your family..."

Me: "There is no justification or excuse for the r*pe and murder of innocents. None."

You: "But what would you do if your family..."

Me: "There is no justification or excuse for the r*pe and murder of innocents. None."

You: "But what would you do if your family..."

Me: "There is no justification or excuse for the r*pe and murder of innocents. None."

See the problem? Enough is enough. We will not see eye to eye on this, period. My initial observation is also part of a much larger picture of how people today justify r*pe, murder and rabid anti-semitism just as they did in 1930's. We are headed again in that direction. It's your choice as to whether you will be part of that movement or not.

As a Christian, I will not support, tolerate, excuse, or justify the r*pe and murder of innocent people. End of story.
Alright I agree, I don't condone the violence by Hamas or any violence for that matter. However, as a final point, then of course you don't believe Israel should retaliate with any measure of violence. If you did, that would of course be the most blatant hypocrisy one could care to find.
 

Lurking009

Veteran
Joined
Mar 19, 2018
Messages
638
Alright I agree, I don't condone the violence by Hamas or any violence for that matter. However, as a final point, then of course you don't believe Israel should retaliate with any measure of violence. If you did, that would of course be the most blatant hypocrisy one could care to find.
Me, Post #397: "I really cannot wrap my head around the abhorrent evil of people who would celebrate the mass murder and r*pe committed, no matter what their feelings are about Israel. These are citizens, not military combatants. While Israel is in no way innocent, the attack on Saturday is a new provocation beyond words. Hamas has left Israel with no choice but to defend itself and wipe them out for the sake of their own people."

Let me save you the trouble -

You: "That would be the most blatant hypocrisy one could care to find."

Me: "A country has the right and obligation to defend it's people after being attacked."

You: "But that would be the most blatant hypocrisy one could care to find."

Me: "A country has the right and obligation to defend it's people after being attacked."

You: "But that would be the most blatant hypocrisy one could care to find."

Me: "A country has the right and obligation to defend it's people after being attacked."

And before you drag up "but, but... history", the attack on Israel is a current event, planned and executed by Hamas specifically against civilians. Israel has the right to defend themselves against Hamas and it's supporters. If innocent civilians are being murdered in the process, see post #411.

Rom 13:1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4 For he is God’s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God’s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.

Seriously, this is it. We will not agree, which is fine, but I'm not here in this particular thread to pointlessly and endlessly argue with you.
 
Last edited:
Joined
May 18, 2018
Messages
4,046
Me, Post #397: "I really cannot wrap my head around the abhorrent evil of people who would celebrate the mass murder and r*pe committed, no matter what their feelings are about Israel. These are citizens, not military combatants. While Israel is in no way innocent, the attack on Saturday is a new provocation beyond words. Hamas has left Israel with no choice but to defend itself and wipe them out for the sake of their own people."

Let me save you the trouble -

You: "That would be the most blatant hypocrisy one could care to find."

Me: "A country has the right and obligation to defend it's people after being attacked."

You: "But that would be the most blatant hypocrisy one could care to find."

Me: "A country has the right and obligation to defend it's people after being attacked."

You: "But that would be the most blatant hypocrisy one could care to find."

Me: "A country has the right and obligation to defend it's people after being attacked."

And before you drag up "but, but... history", the attack on Israel is a current event, planned and executed by Hamas specifically against civilians. Israel has the right to defend themselves against Hamas and it's supporters. If innocent civilians are being murdered in the process, see post #411.

Rom 13:1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4 For he is God’s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God’s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.

Seriously, this is it. We will not agree, which is fine, but I'm not here in this particular thread to pointlessly and endlessly argue with you.
Israel has a policy to attack civilians. It’s not just the 1000 militants that attacked their country they are attacking. They are currently murdering the civilians of gaza who have nothing to do with the war. And you say they have no choice but full scale genocide.

and yet, you will not say that you would defend your own family if you were in an open air prison being bombed to mask with the principles of anti violence.

It is utter hypocrisy, as you can plainly see. It’s ok to hold hypocritical stances as long as you don’t pretend to yourself and others you hold them out of principle. You don’t, it’s been concretely established. You hold a biased stance for emotional reasons. You’re just a sheep in 2001 calling for the murder of millions of Iraqis. Carry on.
 
Joined
May 18, 2018
Messages
4,046
1930's Germany vs. Today: What's the difference? Apparently not a thing.
Not a thing. Israel has 2 million people in a concentration camp called Gaza who they regularly massacre. Ignorant people everywhere cheer it on and wash their hands when theyre shown they’re hypocrites saying, I don’t wanna talk about it! Even though they brought it up
 

Lurking009

Veteran
Joined
Mar 19, 2018
Messages
638
it’s insane, defending the actions of hamas. Absolutely insane and warrants no response to whoever has lost the plot to the degree they support the murder of civilians.
You know, that's why I came to this thread. The parallels to pre-WWII have been so deeply disturbing to me as has been the reaction I've seen in other threads [as well as celebrations around the world among some groups) that I needed to express this somewhere sane. It should not be a debateable issue that targeting civilians is reprehensible no matter who does it, and yet here we are.
 
Joined
May 18, 2018
Messages
4,046
You know, that's why I came to this thread. The parallels to pre-WWII have been so deeply disturbing to me as has been the reaction I've seen in other threads [as well as celebrations around the world among some groups) that I needed to express this somewhere sane. It should not be a debateable issue that targeting civilians is reprehensible no matter who does it, and yet here we are.
Yeah the parallels to WWII are so striking. The Jews have a nuclear state and keep millions of people in a concentration camp who they are currently murdering. Are you insane or how often do they play ads about israel on tv in the us?

I’ll never understand the mind of a Zionist. How is it you can let off moral indignation about targeting civilians when it’s what the Israelis do multiple times per year? Is it just because you never hear these things and mesnwhile are hypnotized by tv ads about Israel?
it’s insane, defending the actions of hamas. Absolutely insane and warrants no response to whoever has lost the plot to the degree they support the murder of civilians.
no one here supports the murder of civilians except zionists.
 
Joined
May 18, 2018
Messages
4,046
This has been a telling interaction for all parties. Lurking009 came with moral indignation to the level of calling for genocide. Then threw up her pinky and said she didn’t want to talk about it when it was concretely established she was a hypocrite.

For future, it would be easier if you zionists just said you don’t hold a view based on principles, morals, or reason, just say “I hold a biased malinformed view and therefore aren’t concerned with being a hypocrite”
 
Top