US deploys carrier strike group to send 'clear and unmistakable message' to Iran

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It’s good that he didn’t go through with the strikes but the only reason we have the crisis is because he backed out of the Obama deal. Not going to compliment you for showing some restraint in a crisis you caused.

I think he understands that a war with Iran would be a disaster, and his end. So I’m inclined to believe that some of this is just theater to make it seem as if he standing up to the “deep state”.

We will see what happens but I definitely wouldn’t give this guy a second a term.
 






justjess

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You are emotionally attributing things to me I have never implied and blurring me with others. I am actually shocked that you do not realize his lack of choices when it comes to those around him considering the corruption past. Hey, I get it. We all get it here, you hate the man. But hate him all you want for he is not in total control despite you thinking he can just sit around in the White House and make decisions all by himself. I am not unto continuing a conversation when I am blurred with others. Wow. So you really think his choices cannot be manipulated? That deals are made? It is called politics.
Oldest trick in the book... dismiss a woman as emotional.

If they were powerful enough to make him order the strike against his wishes, they were powerful enough to prevent him from calling it off. Claiming one while dismissing the other is... confusing and unrealistic.

Atleast be constant... he’s an impulsive child with a massive ego and hair pin temper. His advisors were in his ear gassing him up like this is a school yard fight and he thought it was a good idea... and then changed his mind. Both decisions were his. And I’m happy he called it off, but that doesn’t change the fact he ordered it to begin with. It also doesn’t change the fact he backed out of the iran deal spurring this whole thing and that he appointed these hype men himself.

He fired his more reasonable, still awful, original advisors when they advised him not to back out of the iran deal etc... because he liked these guys better.
 






The Zone

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I disagree. Yes, he backed out of Obamas deal, but the US and Iran's problems go way back and a deal has not and will not prevent friction, IMO
 






justjess

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I disagree. Yes, he backed out of Obamas deal, but the US and Iran's problems go way back and a deal has not and will not prevent friction, IMO
It was a step in the right direction and if he hadn’t backed out of it without cause we wouldn’t be in our present situation.

I have a son approaching draft age. Do you know what a full on war with Iran would necessitate?
 






justjess

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Oh gee. Now I am playing tricks. Hate on Jess. Your way wins in your mind always. It is all us, others, Trump, etc in the way of the world being great again. The world is as good as it gets right now, try to enjoy it for darker clouds are on the horizon.
You’ve called me emotional how many times this morning? It’s dismissive.

The world is in shambles. Our country isn’t doing too hot either. But you ignore those reports in favor of whatever spin sounds better to you. Just because you are insulated from it yourself does not mean it isn’t true.
 






The Zone

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Yeah, I do. I was in a war. And we all have our own personal worries and problems, Jess. I have to go to work.d77d2d37bd1c097171be60824c96cf55.jpg
 






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I have a son approaching draft age. Do you know what a full on war with Iran would necessitate?
For starters Iran could sink the entire US gulf fleet in hours, leaving 20k Americans dead, rain hell down on all our Gulf allies and bring the world economy to a halt by closing off all Gulf oil. It’s not a war the US can win quickly. Any military option is a disaster.
 






justjess

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Yeah, I do. I was in a war. And we all have our own personal worries and problems, Jess. I have to go to work.View attachment 23277
A war with Iran means we would need to reintroduce the draft. If you were in a war you joined voluntarily. A war with Iran would be very different.

But cool beans with the dismissive bullshit all morning because I dislike someone you seem to support.
 






Awoken2

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Trump stands up to warmongers in the deep state and halts strike on Iran and all we hear are crickets.
You do understand the basic principles of a con man don't you? He first gains a person's confidence (as apparently, he has yours) ....once he has gained your trust he will then promptly shaft you....as he will do with Iran.

If you honestly believe Trump is some kind of reverse psychology.peace keeper all I can say is I think you have lost your mind..... no offence.

He is owned by Israel, end of.

 






The Zone

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A war with Iran means we would need to reintroduce the draft. If you were in a war you joined voluntarily. A war with Iran would be very different.

But cool beans with the dismissive bullshit all morning because I dislike someone you seem to support.
Again you are inviting me to argue "if's." I do not get caught up speculation as in the draft. How do you know this would happen? In fact, it will not. We have enough ground troops for war in that most of our offense would be tech. And I would know that. Your son is not likely to be drafted for a long, long, long time and he can go to Canada if need be. That said, when was the last draft? And the last world war? Battles are not fought as they once were and we have some nasty stuff nobody has seen before they want to unleash. Or, some do as I mentioned earlier today.

I like some of the stuff Trump does but you always go back to I must like him snark. I just find it humorous that some wast so much energy on him as if he is in total control. So, yeah, I disagree with your politics. I sure as heck do not want a war with Iran, and they should not with the US. So far Trump is rattling swords, let us hope it remains that way. He had the conscience to think it through and did not strike and I do like that.
 






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Karlysymon

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They are really searching for a reason to attack Iran so they can get their oil. It's disturbing to watch how openly they play this game too.
It's disturbing to watch how...
The Media’s Shameful Handling Of Bolton’s Iran Threat Claims Recalls The Run-Up To The Iraq War

Iam 100% sure that Thunderian 100% disagrees with the premise of the article but it looks like we'll be waiting a looong time for him to furnish a list of evidence to back up his claim that it is Russia.
It’s good that he didn’t go through with the strikes but the only reason we have the crisis is because he backed out of the Obama deal. Not going to compliment you for showing some restraint in a crisis you caused.

I think he understands that a war with Iran would be a disaster, and his end. So I’m inclined to believe that some of this is just theater to make it seem as if he standing up to the “deep state”.

We will see what happens but I definitely wouldn’t give this guy a second a term.
I also think he understands the implications for 2020. Let’s say that the war gets underway and obviously sends inflation soaring (high gas prices) and everyone starts to groan, I honestly don’t see how anyone in their right mind can vote in a guy who has greenlighted a war that has and is destroying their livelihoods. So, there is a huge chance that it may not happen now, possibly after 2020. I believe he’ll get a second term. Everyone will suffer, around the world, unless if you are an oil man. The international community is not all on-board, they haven’t really sold the war effort properly yet to the allies. There’s also Putin to consider, remember he cut the brakes on the “Venezuela project”. The fall of Iran directly leads to the balkanization of Russia. Just as Iran sits between Iraq and Afghanistan, those two had to be neutered first, for anything to happen in Iran.

But the war hawks have an ace up their sleeve, where the war happens much earlier and Trump still remains with a good chance of re-election. That ace is Israel. All it will take is one false-flag. He has given them everything that they want: designate the Revolutionary Guard as a terrorist organization….done. We want the Golan…done. Jerusalem…..done. We want the West bank and East Jerusalem….

Pat Buchanan: "Bibi Netanyahu Wants The U.S. To Fight A War With Iran On Behalf Of Israel" start 5;22 mark
This interview is even old but I can’t stand Hannity and the propaganda he spews.


Note: In 2010, Bolton co-founded the Friends of Israel Initiative with 12 other international figures.(Wikipedia)
 






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Bernie Sanders Burns Trump on Iran Strike: ‘It’s Like Setting a Fire, Then Putting it Out’

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/bernie-sanders-burns-trump-on-iran-strike-851527/

Pretty much.





It's disturbing to watch how...
The Media’s Shameful Handling Of Bolton’s Iran Threat Claims Recalls The Run-Up To The Iraq War


Iam 100% sure that Thunderian 100% disagrees with the premise of the article but it looks like we'll be waiting a looong time for him to furnish a list of evidence to back up his claim that it is Russia.

I also think he understands the implications for 2020. Let’s say that the war gets underway and obviously sends inflation soaring (high gas prices) and everyone starts to groan, I honestly don’t see how anyone in their right mind can vote in a guy who has greenlighted a war that has and is destroying their livelihoods. So, there is a huge chance that it may not happen now, possibly after 2020. I believe he’ll get a second term. Everyone will suffer, around the world, unless if you are an oil man. The international community is not all on-board, they haven’t really sold the war effort properly yet to the allies. There’s also Putin to consider, remember he hit brakes on the “Venezuela project”. The fall of Iran directly leads to the balkanization of Russia. Just as Iran sits between Iraq and Afghanistan, those two had to be neutered first, for anything to happen in Iran.

But the war hawks have an ace up their sleeve, where the war happens much earlier and Trump still remains with a good chance of re-election. That ace is Israel. All it will take is one false-flag. He has given them everything that they want: designate the Revolutionary Guard as a terrorist organization….done. We want the Golan…done. Jerusalem…..done. We want the West bank and East Jerusalem….

Pat Buchanan: "Bibi Netanyahu Wants The U.S. To Fight A War With Iran On Behalf Of Israel" start 5;22 mark
This interview is even old but I can’t stand Hannity and the propaganda he spews.


Note: In 2010, Bolton co-founded the Friends of Israel Initiative with 12 other international figures.(Wikipedia)
There isn’t a country that comes close to the US in sponsoring terrorism. Just look at what we’ve done in Latin America since at least the Chilean coup in 70s.

War with Iran would be an absolute disaster for him. It would nullify any economic progress he has made, and there will be high American casualties, I’m talking 15k more than in the entire Iraq war. To actually win it, would almost certainly require a draft. If those are the conditions going into Election Day he will be lucky to win 10 states.

Also this war could and will likely spread in the region, as you said who knows what Russia ( and China ) decide to do in this scenario, but all I can say is it might lead to the last war.


So some of this is surely just posturing, I think he plays to his base by pretending to stand up to the war party and change his mind. All bets are off if he gets a second term though.

Unless...as you say some kind of event happens that gets the blood lust in Americans up again like 9/11.

It would have to be pretty major, and if an event that significant happens under this guy, we can forget about an election anyway. I’ve been terrified for years that a major terrorist attack happens on Trump’s watch.
 






Karlysymon

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War with Iran would be an absolute disaster for him. It would nullify any economic progress he has made, and there will be high American casualties, I’m talking 15k more than in the entire Iraq war. To actually win it, would almost certainly require a draft. If those are the conditions going into Election Day he will be lucky to win 10 states.
I couldn't guess what option "they" would choose. According to military strategists, a ground invasion would be challenging because of the terrain and size of the country and i don't think, like in Syria, the use of militias/rebels would successfully work. So we'll just wait and see.
Unless...as you say some kind of event happens that gets the blood lust in Americans up again like 9/11.

It would have to be pretty major, and if an event that significant happens under this guy, we can forget about an election anyway. I’ve been terrified for years that a major terrorist attack happens on Trump’s watch.
Here, in their own words......although i think a major terrorist attack would still resurrect up the lies of 9/11 in selling the wars, so i guess there'd be some significant opposition.

BRZEZINSKI: A plausible scenario for a military collision with Iran involves Iraqi failure to meet the bench marks followed by accusations of the Iranian responsibility for the failure, then by some provocation in Iraq or a terrorist act in the United States blamed on Iran culminating in a “defensive” US military action against Iran that plunges a lonely America into a spreading and deepening quagmire eventually ranging across Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Seymour Hersh: Because one of the things they learned in the incident was the American public—if you get the right incident, the American public will support, you know, bang bang kiss kiss. You know, we’re into it.

Transcipt
 






DavidSon

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Sanctions Are Worse Than Overt Warfare

"If the US were to launch a barrage of Tomahawk missiles into an Iranian suburb with the goal of killing civilians, there’d be international outrage and the cohesion of the US-centralized power alliance would take a major hit. Virtually everyone would recognize this as an unforgivable war crime. Yet America will be able to kill the same number of civilians with the same deliberate intention of inflicting deadly force, and it would suffer essentially no consequences at all. There’s no public or international pressure holding that form of violence at bay, because it’s invisible and poorly understood."
 






Karlysymon

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It was a step in the right direction and if he hadn’t backed out of it without cause we wouldn’t be in our present situation.

I have a son approaching draft age. Do you know what a full on war with Iran would necessitate?
If the draft in the US is impossible or a non-viable option, maybe developments in Europe could settle the question.
https://www.vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/is-the-draft-the-prelude-to-ww3.5103/
European countries are quietly bringing back the draft

It just doesn't make any sense for them to be doing this if the war they anticipate doesn't require lots of troops. Also, they are afraid of Russia, which has advanced tech, so it still doesn't make any sense for them do this when the foot soldiers will be annihilated in a flash. Neither can we argue that those countries are so far behind in their military technology.
 






justjess

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“The path to diplomacy is closed”
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiNrLKguoTjAhUEXM0KHSSpAGsQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https://www.foxnews.com/politics/iran-says-latest-us-sanctions-ends-channel-of-diplomacy-forever&psig=AOvVaw2NkLuRwstFT6LnCzZDsUwH&ust=1561545987595314

So I’m just not sure what other people take from that but to me it seems we are about to have a real problem here. It’s clear as day Israel is behind this as well..

And what I don’t get seriously is that we don’t need to have a problem at all. Iran is not going to invade us. They aren’t going to nuc us... so this is all for what? It isn’t a true safety issue that’s for sure.

Edit: a ground war with Iran would absolutely necessitate reinstating the draft regardless of what certain people may think. Every military official/expert I’ve read who’s commented on the iran issue has agreed with this.

Order out of chaos right? Decimate the American economy purposely, create a generation of young adults struggling to survive basic necessities, provoke an unnecessary war and enlist them all. Great way to shut them up and ensure the continuation of the status quo. It’s not like we haven’t been here before.
 






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