US Bases Named After Confederates

[Lurker]

And about their tactics. If they're traitors, should we glorify their tactics?

 

[Lurker]

Yea, Im pointing out how backwards it is that they allowed a traitorous flag to be flown side by side with the American flag. Pretty ridiculous if you think about it.

You brought that into the thread.

 

[Lurker]

I mean hell, why stop here? Why should that U-boat off of Louisiana be afforded war grave status? The were literal Nazis.

 

[KoncreteMind]

those who tried to secede from the union were great patriots. why? because they trusted and believed in the constitution enough to flex their rights and opt out. real patriots respect and live by the constitution and simply blindly follow the federal government.
the north shouldve let them go as it was their right to do so (and if you look into it, a lot of people in the north were ok with it. those editors in the newspapers at the time who thought it was their right to do so were silenced and JAILED for saying so by lincoln).

Of course it wouldnt benefit the US if half of its constituents seceded. Why do you think Lincoln would be okay with that? And your right or wrong speech about the constitution doesnt cut it because the reality is they went to WAR with the US. They tried to take the US's head off. And what does the US turn around and do for that? Commemorate them? Right or wrong, do you think Trump would commemorate someone that went to war with him? You know he wouldnt be on a "well if its going by the constitution" type of time...

and you say "their leadership". indeed, who IS the leadership? certainly not the federal government! states ultimately have the power and are free to dissolve their association with a federal government which is not in their interest. thats how the constitution was written. this applies to the US only, so what china or russia/putin do has no bearing on this.


"to secure these rights [life, liberty, pursuit of happiness], governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed... whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute a new government."

-declaration of independence

"any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. this is most valuable, a most sacred right-- a right which we hope and believe is to liberate the world."

-abe lincoln, jan 1848

Well lets see where you go with this. What were ways that the US gov't at that time was destroying the confederacy's "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness"?

 

[KoncreteMind]

True, but it's more about if the service to CSA negates what they did as US officers

Yes I'd think turning on your service negates what you did in your service... If a spy told Americas secrets to say China, are we going to commemorate the spy after its all said and done because of his supposed "service" to the US? Of course not...

 

[polymoog]

Of course it wouldnt benefit the US if half of its constituents seceded. Why do you think Lincoln would be okay with that?

lincoln had no problem with secession prior to his election. afterwards, he flipflopped (different issue). whether he would or would not be OK with it is irrelevant. its clear: the states PRECEDE the federal government.

the reality is they went to WAR with the US.

lincoln provoked the war. he lied about provisioning fort sumter after promising that he had no plans to do so, and when he did, he sent a warship with guns and soldiers. when the south made good on their warning, lincoln could parade around and arouse anger for the northerners (who didnt give a damn about the war).

do you think Trump would commemorate someone that went to war with him?

depends upon the circumstances, i guess.

What were ways that the US gov't at that time was destroying the confederacy's "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness"?

ive been over this with colonel/bertoxx/TMT already. start at post #25.

best/worst US presidents and WHY!

my picks, in no particular order: best: JFK: i believe he was going to end the federal reserve. jefferson: a real libertarian. LA purchase. coolidge: small gvt, low on spending, libertarian: civil rights for blacks + catholics, wary of foreign entanglements, cut debt by 25%, grew local...

vigilantcitizenforums.com

 

[KoncreteMind]

lincoln had no problem with secession prior to his election. afterwards, he flipflopped (different issue). whether he would or would not be OK with it is irrelevant. its clear: the states PRECEDE the federal government.


lincoln provoked the war. he lied about provisioning fort sumter after promising that he had no plans to do so, and when he did, he sent a warship with guns and soldiers. when the south made good on their warning, lincoln could parade around and arouse anger for the northerners (who didnt give a damn about the war).

While all of what you're saying may be true, its not really relevant. Once president, why would Lincoln be for secession of half of the states he's over? His job was to keep the US together not let half secede. Everything you're saying, again while may be true (I havent looked into it) isnt relevant.

depends upon the circumstances, i guess.a

ive been over this with colonel/bertoxx/TMT already. start at post #25.

best/worst US presidents and WHY!

my picks, in no particular order: best: JFK: i believe he was going to end the federal reserve. jefferson: a real libertarian. LA purchase. coolidge: small gvt, low on spending, libertarian: civil rights for blacks + catholics, wary of foreign entanglements, cut debt by 25%, grew local...

vigilantcitizenforums.com

You're going to point me to a post that long for such a simple question? And I did read thru some of it, and it seemed to just be touching what you said in here but more in depth. My question was simple....

How was the US trampling on the South's "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness"? You called them patriots for standing up for their rights given to them in the constitution. Well what SPECIFIC rights of theirs were getting trampled?

 

[Lurker]

Something for @KoncreteMind to consider

George Washington Statue (London) - All You Need to Know BEFORE You Go

www.tripadvisor.com

 

[polymoog]

How was the US trampling on the South's "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness"? You called them patriots for standing up for their rights given to them in the constitution. Well what SPECIFIC rights of theirs were getting trampled?

the federal government wanted to dictate what they could and couldnt do in their states. this included tariffs in which the south was very much opposed. the south said that this whole union thing wasnt working out for them and they wanted out, which is their right by the constitution to do so. this was a "state power grab" by lincoln, to considate the power. thats basically it. the issue of why they wanted to leave is totally irrelevant, but they were the last to make a stand for our states rights.

 

[KoncreteMind]

Something for @KoncreteMind to consider

George Washington Statue (London) - All You Need to Know BEFORE You Go

www.tripadvisor.com

Dont understand what you're getting at....

the federal government wanted to dictate what they could and couldnt do in their states. this included tariffs in which the south was very much opposed. the south said that this whole union thing wasnt working out for them and they wanted out, which is their right by the constitution to do so. this was a "state power grab" by lincoln, to considate the power. thats basically it. the issue of why they wanted to leave is totally irrelevant, but they were the last to make a stand for our states rights.

So YOU bring up "life liberty and pursuit of happiness" (that didnt apply to everyone did it?) yet you cant give any solid examples of how this right given to southerners were being trampled? Then you end it saying the why is irrelevant? You're asking the US gov't to keep commemorating traitors to them based on nothing really. But on the flipside if liberal states today decided they wanted to secede based on differences with Trump you wouldnt respect it. You wouldnt call them "patriots" for standing up for "state rights". You know it and I know it...

And in theory I guess, theres nothing wrong with that. Im just saying that the reality is they turned against the US gov't, so why should the US gov't commemorate them anymore? Of course the meaning of them being brought down is deeper than that, but on a surface level, they should have never been recognized the way they were.. And each president's job is to do what Lincoln tried to do which is keep the country together. Blaming him doesnt work...

 

[polymoog]

But on the flipside if liberal states today decided they wanted to secede based on differences with Trump you wouldnt respect it. You wouldnt call them "patriots" for standing up for "state rights". You know it and I know it...

wrong. id love to see lib states secede if they want (that way i could sit back and watch it crash and burn). states have every right to leave if the union is not doing something in their favor. they would be leaving to form some liberal-"diverse" state more based on communism, so i dont think id say they were patriots since they couldnt give a damn about the constitution or freedom of speech.
again, i WOULD credit and respect them with flexing their option (and right) to leave.

And each president's job is to do what Lincoln tried to do which is keep the country together.

keeping it together is a priority, but not if the states need to be held together at gunpoint.

So YOU bring up "life liberty and pursuit of happiness" (that didnt apply to everyone did it?) yet you cant give any solid examples of how this right given to southerners were being trampled? Then you end it saying the why is irrelevant?

the tariffs, like i said, cripples their way of life. it would only benefit the northern states where all the manufacturing was done.
yes, its irrelevant anyway, because the bigger issue is the right to secede. theyve had it then, and every state has it today.

 

[Lurker]

Dont understand what you're getting at

George Washington (traitor to England) statue in England.