Unveiled Faces

Bacsi

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When in doubt about the teachings of the church, read the Bible. Far better to get your understanding of what Jesus did or didn't say from the organ grinder rather than the monkey!
Organ grinder? Typo? I didn't understand.

Yes, we have to look at the source. That's exactky what I was saying. The church doctrines have very little to do with the Bible. The cut-and-paste acrobatics of substantiating church teachings are sometimes so bewildering.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Organ grinder? Typo? I didn't understand.

Yes, we have to look at the source. That's exactky what I was saying. The church doctrines have very little to do with the Bible. The cut-and-paste acrobatics of substantiating church teachings are sometimes so bewildering.
My life is so busy I rarely have chance to get to church, but I take the Bible round with me on my phone.

http://www.thewordofpromise.com

The best audio Bible I came across and you can download the Gospel of John for free to see if you take to the style. I think I'm a bit like you in that I don't like to be told what to think and this is probably why I learn the most just listening to the Bible while mowing a lawn or driving to work.

 

Bacsi

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My life is so busy I rarely have chance to get to church, but I take the Bible round with me on my phone.

http://www.thewordofpromise.com

The best audio Bible I came across and you can download the Gospel of John for free to see if you take to the style. I think I'm a bit like you in that I don't like to be told what to think and this is probably why I learn the most just listening to the Bible while mowing a lawn or driving to work.

Very very interesting. Read dramatised by 500 actors! Must be good. But US$40 is not for me. Not interested enough. Greedy guys! Selling the Bible! :)
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Very very interesting. Read dramatised by 500 actors! Must be good. But US$40 is not for me. Not interested enough. Greedy guys! Selling the Bible! :)
I guess the 500 actors needed paying and even the dullest physics textbook in our local bookshop costs the same.

I think there is about 24hrs worth of dramatised content. I don't usually pay for apps but this one got my custom after I had listened to the quality of the free content.
 

Bacsi

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I guess the 500 actors needed paying and even the dullest physics textbook in our local bookshop costs the same.

I think there is about 24hrs worth of dramatised content. I don't usually pay for apps but this one got my custom after I had listened to the quality of the free content.
Yes, the actors have to eat, too. :) I'm sure it's not a not-for-profit product with somebody earning money. I dislike religious profiteering in any form. Didn't Jesus drive out merchants from the temple?
 
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Red Sky at Morning

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Yes, the actors have to eat, too. :) I'm sure it's not a not-for-profit product with somebody earning profit. I dislike religions profeteering in any form. Didn't Jésus drive out mérchants from the temple?
I agree - tbh you can get free audio Bible too, but not quite the same quality. Similar to a film, I would pay to go to the movies, but have a higher expectation of the film than if I was just watching TV.
 

Bacsi

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I agree - tbh you can get free audio Bible too, but not quite the same quality. Similar to a film, I would pay to go to the movies, but have a higher expectation of the film than if I was just watching TV.
Very very good stuff. I checked out John. Music, actors, nature sounds. The only thing is I always have trouble digesting the NT in English. Russian is much closer to Greek, so it's way easier to understand the original ideas. Then the pronunciation in English of Hebrew/Greek names or places are so far away from what they are in the originals, it breaks my brain every time. :) E.g. [kee-FAS] somehow becomes [SEE-fus] etc. Or Yeshooah/Ee-ee-soos becoming Jeezus. I can't stand it. :)
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Very very good stuff. I checked out John. Music, actors, nature sounds. The only thing is I always have trouble digesting the NT in English. Russian is much closer to Greek, so it's way easier to understand the original ideas. Then the pronunciation in English of Hebrew/Greek names or places are so far away from what they are in the originals, it breaks my brain every time. :) E.g. [kee-FAS] somehow becomes [SEE-fus] etc. Or Yeshooah/Ee-ee-soos becoming Jeezus. I can't stand it. :)
Well done for trying anyway ;-)
 

JoChris

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No. This forum is open to all people. Please don't take a role of a censor. It's not nice at all.
It is a matter of **politeness**. I would not go posting bible verses on a favourite quran passage thread.
People who do not believe in Jesus do not understand our perspective.

I am very disappointed that you cannot show the courtesy to start a separate thread on the topic you wished to discuss. If you do stay on this thread, don't complain if you get tonnes of bible words and words said in Christianese in response to any mockery.
 

JoChris

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When I was a kid at vacation bible school I took Jesus into my heart. Idk if that saved me, but I think it's important. It's like the one thing I remember that wasn't some huge glorification of Christ. Like why is Jesus a Lord? I've never been able to understand that.

There doesn't seem to be a Lord Jesus in my heart. And I think I would know. I'm just saying I think that's where Christianity goes too far. It became self indulgent.
I never knew where that expression came from until fairly recently. I think this a pro -Catholic hisory website. https://org.uib.no/enid/texts/achen_1.htm
The words aren't said in the bible but the attitude is there. Believing in Jesus will change a person's heart. It should make us God/ others indulgent, not self indulgent!
 

JoChris

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I know I repeatedly come across as blunt online and some people can take that personally. A long long time ago, on another religious website, far far away....
I became very chummy with a nice but insecure woman who gradually revealed she adored the false teacher and self-declared prophet Rick Joyner. I tried over and over again to express my concerns nicely but she would not take the hint. Instead she declared I was no longer her friend.

Finally one day I gave the hard evidence he was a heretic. The blog's founder actually rebuked me for not being nice. Other readers however responded in my defence and even thanked me.

On other websites when I have tried to be diplomatic people don't seem to get the message I intend. Only when I am direct in my communication style do people get my message loud-and-clear. I certainly am not using an "I am being blunt" excuse for being abusive towards others. I do not think I have ever abused anyone online intentionally at all.

----
Now I am typing this as I am exasperated that yet another anti-Christian typer has tried to tell me I am not nice enough. Online I am not the softie I am in real life. Online I have a different role to play in the Body of Christ. 1 Corinthians 12
I was trained in library information years ago (retired), so I now use that training to teach, correct and rebuke people in order to bring people to the truth.

Just like Christians come in different shapes and sizes, we come in different communication styles and personal strengths and weaknesses. Stop demanding that we all act and sound the same way. I will not be fake or phony to please others any more, especially online. Thank you.
 

llleopard

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Jesus himself never required to perform such strange actions. His message was pure and simple. Do to others what you want others do to you. People twisted his teaching so much that they derived to all kinds of weird doctrines and practices far away from the original.
Christians do use lots of jargon sometimes, but we don't need to get hung up on it. I know the bible says that we need to confess Jesus as Lord and believe that God raised him from the dead. That's pretty simple
 

JoChris

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I know I repeatedly come across as blunt online and some people can take that personally. A long long time ago, on another religious website, far far away....
I became very chummy with a nice but insecure woman who gradually revealed she adored the false teacher and self-declared prophet Rick Joyner. I tried over and over again to express my concerns nicely but she would not take the hint. Instead she declared I was no longer her friend.

Finally one day I gave the hard evidence he was a heretic. The blog's founder actually rebuked me for not being nice. Other readers however responded in my defence and even thanked me.

On other websites when I have tried to be diplomatic people don't seem to get the message I intend. Only when I am direct in my communication style do people get my message loud-and-clear. I certainly am not using an "I am being blunt" excuse for being abusive towards others. I do not think I have ever abused anyone online intentionally at all.

----
Now I am typing this as I am exasperated that yet another anti-Christian typer has tried to tell me I am not nice enough. Online I am not the softie I am in real life. Online I have a different role to play in the Body of Christ. 1 Corinthians 12
I was trained in library information years ago (retired), so I now use that training to teach, correct and rebuke people in order to bring people to the truth.

Just like Christians come in different shapes and sizes, we come in different communication styles and personal strengths and weaknesses. Stop demanding that we all act and sound the same way. I will not be fake or phony to please others any more, especially online. Thank you.
And this morning my pastor preached on 1 Corinthians 12. Something he said reminded me of a conversation I had a very long time ago at a bible study. One of the women said half-jokingly something like "yes, but some parts of the (church) body are less important... like the pancreas". My year 12 biology self had to say something! Me: "But the pancreas produces insulin - without insulin you would DIE from diabetes!!!!"

Now verses I thought of for Christian VC readers: 1 Corinthians 12:22-24 The weakest, ugliest, and most-in-need-of-physical-support organs in the body are the ones critical for digesting food, hormone regulations, excretion of bodily waste, strong immune system etc.

1. We are not easily observed doing work for the church church like evangelists/ ministers (mouths), obvious helpers (arms and legs). Without us doing the hidden, invisible work the body of Christ would soon get very ill. Therefore, the church needs **you**.
2. The hidden organs need a lot of shelter and support. I know the fact you are drawn to the dark and mysterious topics via VC website that you are a lot more likely to have been unsettled early in life, have difficult life circumstances and are seeking to create inner order amongst your life chaos. **YOU** need the church.

Now my local church is still very different to me and unless God brings something or someone like me I will always tend to feel like the outsider. I have to force myself most WEEKS!!!! If you, Christian VC reader, also feel like you don't fit in the church**, it is quite possible you are the part they are missing and God brought you there for a reason (and that reason may not be clear to you for a very long time).

Part of maturing as a Christian is seeking to support other in whatever God sees fit for you. Church attendance can feel like a chore at times. It is for your brothers-and-sisters' in Christ sake as well as your own that you should attend church when possible (depending on circumstances e.g. do not go if you have a bad case of the 'flu).

---
** Only go to a bible believing church. No church attendance is better than going to a false religion/ cultish church, but that should be a last resort and not an excuse for disobeying one of God's commandments Hebrews 10:23-25
 

llleopard

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And this morning my pastor preached on 1 Corinthians 12. Something he said reminded me of a conversation I had a very long time ago at a bible study. One of the women said half-jokingly something like "yes, but some parts of the (church) body are less important... like the pancreas". My year 12 biology self had to say something! Me: "But the pancreas produces insulin - without insulin you would DIE from diabetes!!!!"

Now verses I thought of for Christian VC readers: 1 Corinthians 12:22-24 The weakest, ugliest, and most-in-need-of-physical-support organs in the body are the ones critical for digesting food, hormone regulations, excretion of bodily waste, strong immune system etc.

1. We are not easily observed doing work for the church church like evangelists/ ministers (mouths), obvious helpers (arms and legs). Without us doing the hidden, invisible work the body of Christ would soon get very ill. Therefore, the church needs **you**.
2. The hidden organs need a lot of shelter and support. I know the fact you are drawn to the dark and mysterious topics via VC website that you are a lot more likely to have been unsettled early in life, have difficult life circumstances and are seeking to create inner order amongst your life chaos. **YOU** need the church.

Now my local church is still very different to me and unless God brings something or someone like me I will always tend to feel like the outsider. I have to force myself most WEEKS!!!! If you, Christian VC reader, also feel like you don't fit in the church**, it is quite possible you are the part they are missing and God brought you there for a reason (and that reason may not be clear to you for a very long time).

Part of maturing as a Christian is seeking to support other in whatever God sees fit for you. Church attendance can feel like a chore at times. It is for your brothers-and-sisters' in Christ sake as well as your own that you should attend church when possible (depending on circumstances e.g. do not go if you have a bad case of the 'flu).

---
** Only go to a bible believing church. No church attendance is better than going to a false religion/ cultish church, but that should be a last resort and not an excuse for disobeying one of God's commandments Hebrews 10:23-25
i agree. It's taken me years to get comfortable with my church. I only went there because Rhino had been going there before we met, and I did the submission thing and agreed to go even though i really didn't want to. over the years I have continually felt uncomfortable and different and like a nasty little appendix, but the more i grow and share my real self, the more people are commenting that they value and appreciate my point of view. I am beginning to see where I fit in, in this part of the body, and although i am soooo never going to be like most of the demographic, I feel more like a pancreas or a kidney or something now. Possibly a venting spleen :) Hang in there. We are in the right places, because God gifted us to them and them to us. Ho ho ho yet another of His cosmic jokes!
 

llleopard

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I am hanging in this week, because Rhino has been applying for jobs again. He likes his current job, but really feels that God has a specific call on his life in the area of pastoring. NZ is a little place, and there are just not that many opportunities for paid pastoring work, so anything he applies for is out of the district. This is somewhat unsettling, as I have just started a new job myself (yay! after 26 years of teaching, I am now a part time senior citizen's librarian, and part time teacher!!!) and darn it, I'm actually pretty happy. The thought of uprooting and going somewhere new is not my favourite idea, although I would go wherever Rhino felt we were called to be, and give my absolute all. A little bit of me wonders if my attitude is working against him though - that because deep deep down inside, I am a little bit reluctant to do the move thing, even though I am praying 'God's will be done' and saying I am willing.....am I covertly wrecking things. do you know what I mean?
 

JoChris

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I am hanging in this week, because Rhino has been applying for jobs again. He likes his current job, but really feels that God has a specific call on his life in the area of pastoring. NZ is a little place, and there are just not that many opportunities for paid pastoring work, so anything he applies for is out of the district. This is somewhat unsettling, as I have just started a new job myself (yay! after 26 years of teaching, I am now a part time senior citizen's librarian, and part time teacher!!!) and darn it, I'm actually pretty happy. The thought of uprooting and going somewhere new is not my favourite idea, although I would go wherever Rhino felt we were called to be, and give my absolute all. A little bit of me wonders if my attitude is working against him though - that because deep deep down inside, I am a little bit reluctant to do the move thing, even though I am praying 'God's will be done' and saying I am willing.....am I covertly wrecking things. do you know what I mean?
I know just what you mean (husband is ex-soldier - We moved a lot).

I get two concerns from your message:
1. Fear of change/ new home/ friends etc from moving.
2. Fear of your husband's new role if he becomes a pastor and resulting changes for you.

For both I think you need to talk to mature women you trust. It would be harder to get pastors' wives opinions in person so careful searches online might be helpful. You need sympathy and support.
 

llleopard

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I know just what you mean (husband is ex-soldier - We moved a lot).

I get two concerns from your message:
1. Fear of change/ new home/ friends etc from moving.
2. Fear of your husband's new role if he becomes a pastor and resulting changes for you.

For both I think you need to talk to mature women you trust. It would be harder to get pastors' wives opinions in person so careful searches online might be helpful. You need sympathy and support.
You are so right on points one and two. :eek: Took your advice. Talked to my best spiritual friend in a rather large verbal evacuation. She certainly qualifies as mature, cos she's just turned 86 ho ho ho and been a pastor's wife and church planter and teacher for large portions of that. Frankly, she gave me some sympathy and a pat on the back, and then a bit of slap round the ears about some attitude changing and ways to think about things. And I do feel better about it - even just sounding off to you guys and her has been cathartic, so thank you mega.:oops:

Now the Rhino has an interview in 10 days time in a town across the other side of NZ. EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEK! Oh well, we shall see what happens! o_O
 

elsbet

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...
You are so right on points one and two. :eek: Took your advice. Talked to my best spiritual friend in a rather large verbal evacuation. She certainly qualifies as mature, cos she's just turned 86 ho ho ho and been a pastor's wife and church planter and teacher for large portions of that. Frankly, she gave me some sympathy and a pat on the back, and then a bit of slap round the ears about some attitude changing and ways to think about things. And I do feel better about it - even just sounding off to you guys and her has been cathartic, so thank you mega.:oops:

Now the Rhino has an interview in 10 days time in a town across the other side of NZ. EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEK! Oh well, we shall see what happens! o_O
Just read all of this... am very glad you!

Check it-- PHILIPPIANS 4:6-7

 

JoChris

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You are so right on points one and two. :eek: Took your advice. Talked to my best spiritual friend in a rather large verbal evacuation. She certainly qualifies as mature, cos she's just turned 86 ho ho ho and been a pastor's wife and church planter and teacher for large portions of that. Frankly, she gave me some sympathy and a pat on the back, and then a bit of slap round the ears about some attitude changing and ways to think about things. And I do feel better about it - even just sounding off to you guys and her has been cathartic, so thank you mega.:oops:

Now the Rhino has an interview in 10 days time in a town across the other side of NZ. EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEK! Oh well, we shall see what happens! o_O
It is great to read that.

I think pastors' wives need to be very strong women with very good discernment skills (spiritual and personal). One acquaintance told me that when her husband was a pastor she had to watch other women (these days men too) very closely. Sad but true.

Another pastor's wife said that the pressure to look/ act perfect was very hard. Therefore, to prevent that from happening "be yourself" from very start. You will never please everybody so don't risk emotional burnout. Please God 1st, husband 2nd, then church.
 
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