Unveiled Faces

Camidria

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I approached the pastor about that years ago. He said they already had a monthly woman's prayer bible study group.

It is out of town and I can't drive. I asked several times for a lift and I was forgotten both times. I have given up hope in that area. :(
My heart goes out to you!!! I wish people could sometimes see the urgency we have and the deep need and prioritise. I do not think you should give up though, is there perhaps a lady friend in the town that would agree to have some bible study with you, and would be willing to pray with you? Just fellowship with her perhaps (and invite others to join later). If your pastor asks why then you tell him, you cannot drive and people didn't bother to pick you up and you truly need fellowship and prayer.
Then I have another option for you as well, I will be willing to schedule some time with you for fellowship and prayer (we can skype if you are up for it!) But only if you are comfortable (pray about it!)

This makes me think about another lady here in town that didn't have a car and she urgently needed to get to church, but alas the students that was arranged to pick her up didn't prioritise it, so she rarely had the opportunity to go. If only people were more in tune with the Holy Spirit, they would realise one another’s burdens are important and help carry them.
 

Camidria

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I feel so bad for you guys and for my own ungratefulness.

My wife and I are blessed to be part of a small church of dedicated Christians that has become a very big part of our lives. We look after each other's kids and work on projects together -- my wife and I even catered a church couple's wedding last month.

Yesterday we had our annual free church carnival with hot dogs (halal chicken dogs, because most who come are Hindu or Muslim), cotton candy and games. In the middle of it all, we're making food and painting faces and playing games and loving it all because the sun is out, we're with our friends, our kids are all playing safely, and we're telling people about Jesus. I should be more thankful for what we have there.

Christian fellowship can be a double-edged sword. At it's best, you have a group of people who know a lot about each other, and accept it all with love and support. At it's worst, you have a group of people who know a lot about each other and it strongly resembles high school. Most churches are a mix, but there is a reason I stopped attending regularly for years, and if it wasn't for my wife I don't know that I would be as involved as I am now.

I am praying that God will provide the fellowship that meets everyone's needs here.

Proverbs 27:17 - Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.
Wow Thundo! you are truly blessed - this is how it shoud be!! :)
 

Camidria

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@Lady @Red Sky at Morning, thank you for your kind words, God has such a specific plan for all of us, and our strength lies in different places. This is how I see church, how it should be - different people truly working together and building one another up in fellowship whilst discipling others. Like in 1 Corinthians where we are reminded how the body of believers should work together :)
 

Red Sky at Morning

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I often come back to these words from Psalm 84...

"10For a day in thy courts is better than a thousand. I had rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God, than to dwell in the tents of wickedness.

11For the LORD God is a sun and shield: the LORD will give grace and glory: no good thing will he withhold from them that walk uprightly.

12O LORD of hosts, blessed is the man that trusteth in thee."

What ever we are doing, even keeping a door, do it as unto the Lord. One of the things that was a turning point in my own life was a morning when I knelt at the front of an old Methodist church and prayed this prayer...

25666e541a14a48dae1def5aebe548d0.jpg
 

llleopard

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Interesting that quite a few of us have ambivalence about our 'home' church. We are also struggling a bit at the moment - as you all know Rhino (my husband - tough on the outside, squishy in the middle) and myself are Kingdom believers, with a love of types and symbols. Our church does not share this...to the point where when we preached recently and used a symbol (horses- message), an elder said afterwards that we were welcome to preach if we 'stopped the fairytale stuff'. Another huge issue for me has been our church's use of the Message paraphrase as if it is the Bible. I loathe the word of Eugene Petersen as a thing from the PIT as it destroys every type and symbol, distorts salvation and the Holy Spirit etc(not meaning to offend anyone who loves it for whatever reason - it's my opinion here). We had a number of polite discussions with our pastor about it being used from the pulpit to teach from and not being said it was the Message....but the final straw for me was one morning when he put up a Message quote to preach from and said, looking at us 'This is from the Message, and you purists can just get over it'. Which is when I said to the elder next to me 'NO' very loudly and asked Rhino to call a meeting with the pastor and elders afterward. They deliberated for a month, and have agreed to specify when they are using it. Which is progress, but it really shook us that people who we thought loved God's Word couldn't see anything suss about this paraphrase. They continue to quote it, preach from it, promote it by giving a copy to newcomers etc....and we REALLY struggle. We preached again a couple of weeks ago - on the Threefold Purpose of God and went for broke - it was chock full of t and s starting with the tabernacle, heading through Feasts, Fruit and Baptism until we ended with Birthright, Blessing and Inheritance. We wanted to illustrate the point not just with one symbol but building up line upon line from both testaments. I did graphics, and I can tell you, it ROCKED.
Afterward there was one of those awkward silences. However a number of people have questioned us about it since, and we live in hope that even when people don't see the Kingdom, they can at least tolerate it being spoken about. Enough for now.....happy day to all. (in NZ it's 10 to Go to Work time!)
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Interesting that quite a few of us have ambivalence about our 'home' church. We are also struggling a bit at the moment - as you all know Rhino (my husband - tough on the outside, squishy in the middle) and myself are Kingdom believers, with a love of types and symbols. Our church does not share this...to the point where when we preached recently and used a symbol (horses- message), an elder said afterwards that we were welcome to preach if we 'stopped the fairytale stuff'. Another huge issue for me has been our church's use of the Message paraphrase as if it is the Bible. I loathe the word of Eugene Petersen as a thing from the PIT as it destroys every type and symbol, distorts salvation and the Holy Spirit etc(not meaning to offend anyone who loves it for whatever reason - it's my opinion here). We had a number of polite discussions with our pastor about it being used from the pulpit to teach from and not being said it was the Message....but the final straw for me was one morning when he put up a Message quote to preach from and said, looking at us 'This is from the Message, and you purists can just get over it'. Which is when I said to the elder next to me 'NO' very loudly and asked Rhino to call a meeting with the pastor and elders afterward. They deliberated for a month, and have agreed to specify when they are using it. Which is progress, but it really shook us that people who we thought loved God's Word couldn't see anything suss about this paraphrase. They continue to quote it, preach from it, promote it by giving a copy to newcomers etc....and we REALLY struggle. We preached again a couple of weeks ago - on the Threefold Purpose of God and went for broke - it was chock full of t and s starting with the tabernacle, heading through Feasts, Fruit and Baptism until we ended with Birthright, Blessing and Inheritance. We wanted to illustrate the point not just with one symbol but building up line upon line from both testaments. I did graphics, and I can tell you, it ROCKED.
Afterward there was one of those awkward silences. However a number of people have questioned us about it since, and we live in hope that even when people don't see the Kingdom, they can at least tolerate it being spoken about. Enough for now.....happy day to all. (in NZ it's 10 to Go to Work time!)
Even for those of us who see the future aspects of the kingdom, there is much to be learned and taken on board in our daily lives, I think - "occupy till I come" is the phrase that comes to mind...
 

Thunderian

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We are also struggling a bit at the moment - as you all know Rhino (my husband - tough on the outside, squishy in the middle) and myself are Kingdom believers
What does a Kingdom believer believe? :)

Another huge issue for me has been our church's use of the Message paraphrase as if it is the Bible
Which version do you use? And is there no church you can attend that uses anything other than The Message?
 

Red Sky at Morning

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You need to check out the Lord's Prayer in the message - "As above so below"

Obviously God sent the Emerald Tablet of Hermes... (Not) When I read that, I put the Message in the cupboard and I have never bothered with it since!
 
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llleopard

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Hmm. Nutshell. That the Kingdom of God already exists in the world - in part - and that the fullness of the Kingdom will be seen and established in this world when Christ returns in His saints. ie the Manifestation of the Sons of God. (yay!)

I am a NKJV user....I think KJV is more reliable for all the usual reasons, but would prefer the NIV or any of the other W&H derivatives to the Message to be preached from. We could just jump ship, but that doesn't feel right at the moment. Would rather Be the Change if at all possible, because the church is family.
Because our grandkids live near the town Rhino used to live in, we spend a bit of time down there, and go to the church where he got saved once every couple of months. It sounds a lot like yours - it is the closest church i have ever experienced with all the good and bad of that! They started about 30 years ago, and it was 98% gang members, and other people with lots of issues. They lived, worked, holidayed, everything together, and it has stayed the most real and close place ever. It keep us on track to go there when we can and feel really part of it.
 

JoChris

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My heart goes out to you!!! I wish people could sometimes see the urgency we have and the deep need and prioritise. I do not think you should give up though, is there perhaps a lady friend in the town that would agree to have some bible study with you, and would be willing to pray with you? Just fellowship with her perhaps (and invite others to join later). If your pastor asks why then you tell him, you cannot drive and people didn't bother to pick you up and you truly need fellowship and prayer.
Then I have another option for you as well, I will be willing to schedule some time with you for fellowship and prayer (we can skype if you are up for it!) But only if you are comfortable (pray about it!)

This makes me think about another lady here in town that didn't have a car and she urgently needed to get to church, but alas the students that was arranged to pick her up didn't prioritise it, so she rarely had the opportunity to go. If only people were more in tune with the Holy Spirit, they would realise one another’s burdens are important and help carry them.
If my adopted grandmother and her daughter were closer I wouldn't mind having one with them but both of them avoid driving due to their health issues. The rest of the women are homemakers with young children and/or homeschooling. They don't have the time for weekly bible studies.

I know the woman (who forgot to pick me up several times) quite well now. I don't think the forgetting was intended but I was forgotten on other occasions by other people at the churh as well for different get-togethers. It is a very sore nerve for me. Always left out (and therefore forgotten) because I can't drive.

I am not comfortable with Skype or even telephones in real-life. I get tongue-tied easily. I like forums though. :)
 

Red Sky at Morning

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If my adopted grandmother and her daughter were closer I wouldn't mind having one with them but both of them avoid driving due to their health issues. The rest of the women are homemakers with young children and/or homeschooling. They don't have the time for weekly bible studies.

I know the woman (who forgot to pick me up several times) quite well now. I don't think the forgetting was intended but I was forgotten on other occasions by other people at the churh as well for different get-togethers. It is a very sore nerve for me. Always left out (and therefore forgotten) because I can't drive.

I am not comfortable with Skype or even telephones in real-life. I get tongue-tied easily. I like forums though. :)
I like forums too! My problem is that I can sometimes offer my view too quickly in face to face interactions. I keep coming back to the word in the Psalms "selah" and reminding myself to slow down a bit! I have also come to admire Treebeard in the Lord of the Rings with his motto "do not be hasty..."

I am really enjoying the way in which each of us have seemingly been brought together, and the diversity of our backgrounds and knowledge...

Apparently an old theologian was once asked what the most profound thing he ever came across in his years of Bible study. He sat back in his chair then replied "yes Jesus loves me, the Bible tells me so"

Though we sometimes have disagreements on the complicated stuff, it is great that in the end our faith doesn't depend on what we know, but Who we know!
 
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Red Sky at Morning

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This song had a second part! I was initially quite offended (having quite a 'traditional' background) but quickly reminded of the words of Jesus and of David...

Mark 10

13And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and hisdisciples rebuked those that brought them. 14But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. 15Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein. 16And he took them up in his arms, put his hands upon them, and blessed them.

2 Samuel 6

21And David said unto Michal, It was before the LORD, which chose me before thy father, and before all his house, to appoint me ruler over the people of the LORD, over Israel: therefore will I play before the LORD.

 

Camidria

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If my adopted grandmother and her daughter were closer I wouldn't mind having one with them but both of them avoid driving due to their health issues. The rest of the women are homemakers with young children and/or homeschooling. They don't have the time for weekly bible studies.

I know the woman (who forgot to pick me up several times) quite well now. I don't think the forgetting was intended but I was forgotten on other occasions by other people at the churh as well for different get-togethers. It is a very sore nerve for me. Always left out (and therefore forgotten) because I can't drive.

I am not comfortable with Skype or even telephones in real-life. I get tongue-tied easily. I like forums though. :)
Lol no problem! If you change your mind though, I will be here! :)
 

Camidria

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You need to check out the Lord's Prayer in the message - "As above so below"

Obviously God sent the Emerald Tablet of Hermes... (Not) When I read that, I put the Message in the cupboard and I have never bothered with it since!
Whoa can't believe it! But considering The Message started out like this it's not surprising....

In an interview with “Christianity Today,” Peterson described the beginning of the creative process that produced The Message: “I just kind of let go and became playful. And that was when the Sermon on the Mount started. I remember I was down in my basement study, and I did the Beatitudes in about 10 minutes. And all of a sudden I realized this could work.” Aside from the impossibility of doing justice to the Sermon on the Mount in 10 minutes, one wonders whether playfulness is the appropriate demeanour for those who attempt to ‘rightly divide the word of Truth’ (see 2nd Timothy 2:15). Awe and reverence for a holy God and His holy Word, yes. Playfulness? No.
 

Camidria

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Hmm. Nutshell. That the Kingdom of God already exists in the world - in part - and that the fullness of the Kingdom will be seen and established in this world when Christ returns in His saints. ie the Manifestation of the Sons of God. (yay!)

I am a NKJV user....I think KJV is more reliable for all the usual reasons, but would prefer the NIV or any of the other W&H derivatives to the Message to be preached from. We could just jump ship, but that doesn't feel right at the moment. Would rather Be the Change if at all possible, because the church is family.
Because our grandkids live near the town Rhino used to live in, we spend a bit of time down there, and go to the church where he got saved once every couple of months. It sounds a lot like yours - it is the closest church i have ever experienced with all the good and bad of that! They started about 30 years ago, and it was 98% gang members, and other people with lots of issues. They lived, worked, holidayed, everything together, and it has stayed the most real and close place ever. It keep us on track to go there when we can and feel really part of it.
I think stay but PRAY, ask the Lord for guidance to expose the things you need to expose, for softened hearts towards the truth and that people will strive to become more sanctified instead of just gulping up things that 'sounds' right but aren't necessarily!

Also have a look at Chuck Missler series where we got our Bible, perhaps that can help with truth as well!
 

rainerann

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I like forums too! My problem is that I can sometimes offer my view too quickly in face to face interactions. I keep coming back to the word in the Psalms "selah" and reminding myself to slow down a bit! I have also come to admire Treebeard in the Lord of the Rings with his motto "do not be hasty..."

I am really enjoying the way in which each of us have seemingly been brought together, and the diversity of our backgrounds and knowledge...

Apparently an old theologian was once asked what the most profound thing he ever came across in his years of Bible study. He sat back in his chair then replied "yes Jesus loves me, the Bible tells me so"

Though we sometimes have disagreements on the complicated stuff, it is great that in the end our faith doesn't depend on what we know, but Who we know!
I really like how you describe the word "selah" as a reminder to slow down. I am going to use that. From what I remember from my a study I took on Psalms, selah was an undefined term that was relevant to the musical aspect of the Pslam so it didn't mean much to me at the time. Now, it has a meaning that is useful for me.

I also like the forums because they create more of a challenge in my study of scripture. I watched the first video again and it occurred to me illustration demonstrated a difference between taking action rather than just going to church on Sunday. This created a stress relief and helped people experience the teachings of Christ rather than just hear them.

I don't think we are being healed by sitting and listening to a message. This isn't changing us the way we should be transforming in our walk with Christ to just sit and listen to a message and it is what a lot of people are doing. However, there does seem to be many people realizing that this is creating problems and preventing growth for the church. We aren't meant to be an audience.

I think this is why I like the forums. I can take my time to research something and write about it, which helps me understand things better than if I was just listening to a message with no opportunity to interact; or, even at a Bible study where we don't have access to resources that will help further our study of scripture.

Although, I have always loved Bible study groups in church. I prefer them to Sunday service. When the kids were little, I would take them to a youth group on Wednesday and they had a women's group at the same time I would go to. That was awesome because you could participate in the lesson and we would have a mild amount of homework that created a challenge for me.

It was a great experience. However, we can't go Wednesday anymore because my daughter has an extracurricular activity that evening now, but there are often Bible study groups that are on different days of the week. I have a group on Monday evening I go to now. My son goes on Wednesday when my daughter is in her group and I am a taxi on that day. Then, my daughter goes on Monday with me too sometimes. It might be worth it to look into whether they have a men's Bible study group on a different day of the week that you have available in your present schedule.

I found the women's group was really helpful when I was going to church on my own because then there was less pressure to appear with my family. My children's father has never been interested in going and once when I went to a study before a church service on Sunday, the lady in the daycare pointed out to me that I came by myself with the kids and made it seem like the ladies there were all talking about me because they felt sorry for me. She said that they were all available to talk if I needed to talk about how hard it was.

In truth, it wasn't hard for me. I loved going and I loved that my children were with me and in my mind everything was going to grow and glow because I was going on Sunday. Anyways, this made me a little uncomfortable so it took about a year before I found myself a nice women's group on a Wednesday where going with a spouse wasn't required and it made a big difference for my whole family that I did for anyone else who might be struggling with going to church without a spouse. I think it does help to go to either the men's only group or the women's only group, at least it helped me.
 
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