Unveiled Faces

[floss]

Nope. Doesn't matter anyway.

Actually it does matter, if your “Christian” families believe you’ll be in heaven tell me they are not saved. If they are saved Christian, they will tell you the truth which is: You will go to hell if you reject the Gospel. There is no other way into heaven except through Jesus Christ.

 

[Violette]

I have a large portion of Christian family as well and I don't believe they're going to burn in hell and they don't believe I'm going to burn in hell...

Why should I believe they will burn and suffer for eternity? They don't deserve that and it would not be just for that to happen to them just because of a belief.

Well the Bible and the Quran are pretty clear about followers going to heaven and nonbelievers going to hell, there is no middle ground. If you don’t agree with that then maybe you should practice something that resonates with you more? Don’t stay in a religion jut because you were raised in it, find something you agree with completely. If I wasn’t a Christian I’d probably be a Buddhist. I don’t want you to think I’m criticizing you, you just seem conflicted?

We all fall short of the glory of God, there is no good person compared to the perfection and holiness of God. If nonbelievers don’t go to hell, where should they go? There are nice atheists, should they see the kingdom of God even if they rejected his existence? People that reject Christ will not reap the benefits of his sacrifice. I don’t believe people burn in Hell for eternity anyways. You either get eternal life or you’re punished for your sins in hell then separated from God forever by spiritual death.

 

[elsbet]

If someone is a decent person, why are you okay with them burning in hell?

Where did I say that?
I believe I said something along the line of decency is Irrelevant. Because it is.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

@mecca

Even though we have been on this forum for some time now, I have not had the opportunity to write to you very often (amazing considering the numbers of posts we have jointly produced!!!)

Here's how I see things.

Firstly, from my own standpoint I have a lot of friends and a wide extended family. There are many people whose company I keep who do not believe the Gospel. Despite this, they still do lots of good things, treat each other fairly (most of the time), love their kids, work hard and stick to the speed limits ;-)

When I compare them to myself, I don't sit in judgement over them and consider them miserable specimens of humanity. They are people and they are all loved by God.

I remember when I first understood "holiness" in a way that I could articulate. I was painting a room that I thought didn't need doing but my wife had been on to me for a while and I finally gave in, bought the paint then set to work. The "white" ceiling I had been so happy with immediately looked a miserable yellowy-grey!

I'm sure you take my meaning - when we compare ourselves to one another, we can come to the conclusion that the largest part of our friendship group are great folk, (sure we are all human and have a few rough edges!) Outside that group we may know a few horrible folk who we wouldn't let into Heaven if we were God.

Another often touted phrase out of the Bible is "our righteousness is as filthy rags" - that's us on a good day! Going back to the painted ceiling, it's the same idea.

I don't know if you have ever tried to look straight at the Sun? You do it when you are a child sometimes then learn from the experience. It's too much to take. I think in a way, God gave us the Sun to help us understand something about His holiness. We might like the light but how much of it do we really want?! Imagine living on the Sun!

The problem comes for us when our time here is over - what do you suppose Heaven might be like for someone who wants to turn up there in their own righteousness? The picture of showing up to a top A-list party in a greasy overall comes to mind. It looked fine when you were with the lads in the garage but the setting makes you feel painfully out of place now.

Perhaps this helps explain the reasons why Christians try to get people to see that if they are going to be able to stand before God and have an actual eternal relationship with Him, they NEED a greater righteousness than can come from their own good deeds. There is SO much more to say on this - just read Romans!!

I have posted up various clips that try to explain the "why" of the Gospel that help things make sense to me. I'm sure you have seen me post this one up, but just in case you never watched it, give it a couple of minutes and it might help you see what we are saying...

 

[mecca]

Where did I say that?
I believe I said something along the line of decency is Irrelevant. Because it is.

Saying decency is irrelevant to whether people go to hell or not is equivalent to saying that you are okay with decent people going to hell. Many Christians believe that any person who does not believe in the sacrifice of Jesus is going to hell... and that it is okay because it's God's will. This means that decent people who don't follow this version of Christianity will be going to hell according to these Christians. But this seems quite unjust and immoral... and I wouldn't think God—who is supposed to be the epitome of love, justice and morality—would do such a thing... So my question is, why do some Christians truly believe that God would do this and that this could be his will?... Especially when it means that their own innocent children would deserve to be sent to hell. Why would a lack of belief in Jesus's sacrifice be a justifiable reason to send someone to eternal suffering? I don't think God's will would be unjust in this way.

 

[elsbet]

Saying decency is irrelevant to whether people go to hell or not is equivalent to saying that you are okay with decent people going to hell.

No, it isn't. Decency is the qualification you have given for entry to Heaven or eternal life (?)-- but what are you basing that on?

Many Christians believe that any person who does not believe in the sacrifice of Jesus is going to hell... and that it is okay because it's God's will. This means that decent people who don't follow this version of Christianity will be going to hell according to these Christians. But this seems quite unjust and immoral... and I wouldn't think God—who is supposed to be the epitome of love, justice and morality—would do such a thing... So my question is, why do some Christians truly believe that God would do this and that this could be his will?... Especially when it means that their own innocent children would deserve to be sent to hell. Why would a lack of belief in Jesus's sacrifice be a justifiable reason to send someone to eternal suffering? I don't think God's will would be unjust in this way.

It would be unjust if it was hidden-- but it is not. And we're clearly told that the end will not come until everyone knows.

EXAMPLE
Mark 13:10
And the gospel must first be proclaimed to all the nations.

Nothing of the natural world will accomplish this-- it is the supernatural work of God, Himself.

 

[Futility]

Saying decency is irrelevant to whether people go to hell or not is equivalent to saying that you are okay with decent people going to hell. Many Christians believe that any person who does not believe in the sacrifice of Jesus is going to hell... and that it is okay because it's God's will. This means that decent people who don't follow this version of Christianity will be going to hell according to these Christians. But this seems quite unjust and immoral... and I wouldn't think God—who is supposed to be the epitome of love, justice and morality—would do such a thing... So my question is, why do some Christians truly believe that God would do this and that this could be his will?... Especially when it means that their own innocent children would deserve to be sent to hell. Why would a lack of belief in Jesus's sacrifice be a justifiable reason to send someone to eternal suffering? I don't think God's will would be unjust in this way.

I think for decent Christians it must be an awful feeling that your "unsaved" loved ones will be sent to hell . Seems rather masochist and unhealthy to me.

Then there is the other group who feels Superior and gleeful in that they are in on something others are not.

Either way, you cannot convince me that a loving God would damn otherwise decent people simply for a lack of belief.

 

[Unknown Warrior]

There are many people who know, without a shadow of a doubt, that God does exist and still knowingly reject Him. People who witnessed the miracles of Jesus rejected Him and had Him executed. That being said, they will be separated from God for eternity. Satan and the fallen angels were all witnesses of God's miracles and still chose to rebel against Him. So therefore, the excuse that people who don't believe in God, will not be judged is a lie from Satan himself.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I think for decent Christians it must be an awful feeling that your "unsaved" loved ones will be sent to hell . Seems rather masochist and unhealthy to me.

Then there is the other group who feels Superior and gleeful in that they are in on something others are not.

Either way, you cannot convince me that a loving God would damn otherwise decent people simply for a lack of belief.

Some on the issues lie in who God is and who we are. If you have a drowning man in the sea far from land, a boat that draws along side to rescue him and 3000 miles from land in each direction there are two choices inherent in the situation. Our flailing man can accept he won't make it to shore and choose to trust the captain in the boat is not a slave trader or he can take his chances on a long swim. There are two possible outcomes and the captain will not be the one responsible for the less welcome one.

As with sea rescues, so with salvation. Many are too proud or suspicious to reach out a hand and accept help.

 

[JoChris]

I have a prayer request for Christian readers:

please pray that my father-in-law gets put in a nursing home ASAP. My husband is driving today to see his father (has Parkinson's Disease really badly now) and family 600 kms away to see how he truly is, not going on second-hand reports from his brother and sister.

As an ex-nurse who worked in a nursing home with quite a few residents who had Parkinson's Disease I am angry that the brother who is guardian hadn't put his foot down and made his father choose between receiving house help + nursing care or nursing home much earlier. My father-in-law has deteriorated much faster as a result. ARRGGHHH!!!

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I just read this - amazing!

He Is,


In Genesis He is the Seed of the Women.

In Exodus He is the Passover Lamb.

In Leviticus He is the High Priest.

In Numbers He is the Pillar of Cloud by day and the Pillar of Fire by night.

In Deuteronomy He is the Prophet like unto Moses.

In Joshua He is the Captain of our Salvation.

In Judges He is our Judge and Lawgiver.

In Ruth He is our Kinsman Redeemer.

In I and II Samuel He is our Trusted Prophet.

In Kings and Chronicles He is our Reigning King.

In Ezra He is our Faithful Scribe.

In Nehemiah He is the Builder of the broken down walls of our human life.

In Esther He is our Mordecai.

In Job He is our Dayspring from on High and our Ever-Living Redeemer.

In Psalms He is the Lord our Shepherd.

In Proverbs and Ecclesiastes He is our Wisdom.

In the Song of Solomon He is our Lover and the Bridegroom.

In Isaiah He is the Prince of Peace.

In Jeremiah He is the Righteous Branch.

In Lamentations He is the Weeping Prophet.

In Ezekiel He is the Wonderful Four-Faced Man.

In Daniel He is the Fourth Man in the burning furnace.

In Hosea He is the Faithful Husband, forever married to the backslider.

In Joel He is the Baptizer with the Holy Ghost and Fire.

In Amos He is our Burden-Bearer.

In Obadiah He is the Mighty to Save.

In Jonah He is our Great Foreign Missionary.

In Micah He is the Messenger of Beautiful Feet, of carrying the Gospel.

In Nahum He is the Avenger of God's elect.

In Habakkuk He is God's Evangelist, crying, "Revive Thy Work...."

In Zephaniah He is the Savior.

In Haggai He is the Restorer of God's lost Heritage.

In Zechariah He is the Fountain opened in the House of David for sin and uncleanness.

In Malachi He is the Sun of Righteousness, rising with healing in His Wings.

In Matthew He is the Messiah.

In Mark He is the Wonder-Worker.

In Luke He is the Son of Man.

In John He is the Son of God.

In Acts He is the Holy spirit.

In Romans He is our Justifier.

In Corinthians He is the Gifts of the Spirit.

In Galatians He is the Redeemer from the curse of the law.

In Ephesians He is the unsearchable Riches of Christ.

In Philippians He is the God who Supplies all our Needs.

In Colossians He is the Godhead bodily.

In I and II Thessalonians He is our Soon-Coming King.

In I and II Timothy He is our Mediator between God and man.

In Titus He is our Faithful Pastor.

In Philemon He is a Friend that sticks closer than a brother.

In Hebrews He is the blood of the Everlasting Covenant.

In James He is the Great Physician.

In I and II Peter He is the Chief Shepherd who soon shall appear with a Crown of Glory.

In I,II, and III John He is Everlasting Love.

In Jude He is the Lord coming with ten thousands of His Saints.

In Revelations He is the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I just watched this poetic performance entitled:-

Jesus > Religion

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Remember Mambo #5?

God has been at work...

 

[llleopard]

Hooray I get to speak in church next Sunday Our pastor has suddenly started seeing that there is a Kingdom. So far he is seeing it totally naturally, but it is an answer to prayer that he is beginning to see it at all, so Rhino and I are thrilled and really looking forward to the opportunites to speak about what we are passionate about. I have tried to attach the file of what I am talking about....but it keeps saying that the uploaded file does not have an allowed extension. Which is annoying, because I would have liked some feedback from you guys before I throw it to the four winds!

 

[sim hae]

Sooo, my brother got born again. I'm still kind of in shock
Many thanks to anyone who said a little prayer!!! <3

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Sooo, my brother got born again. I'm still kind of in shock
Many thanks to anyone who said a little prayer!!! <3

Fantastic news!!!!

https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Rejoicing-When-Someone-Is-Saved

 

[JoChris]

Hello fellow Christians, after a lot of "cold feet" thought, with some trepidation I have decided to return after all.

For relative newbies (September 2018 onwards) I got quite tired of several argumentative contributors and resolved to not waste any more time. I still missed the small group of the "originals" here and for several weeks you have been repeatedly in my thoughts.

It is a weird forum, and I see that Christians here are getting quieter. I completely understand why - that is why I left after all. It is easy to lose hope when all you see is rejection, blasphemy and personal attack when all you are doing is defending your faith.

It is probably reading Romans 5:5 last night that helped change my mind this afternoon:
And hope maketh not ashamed, because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

The Holy Ghost should be providing our strength to witness online etc. I was relying too much on my own strength. I pray now that I will defend my faith and support you all with God's power, not self-will alone.

 

[JoChris]

A good short talk to meditate upon for people reading this forum. Athenian ears - novelty of a new thing

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I like this. Encouraging. I’ve kind of walked away from here. I only joined a few months ago. I love the Christian threads and reading about what God is doing. Other than that, there is so much darkness here.

My life is busy enough that I don’t have time to research everything enough to respond well to some of the argumentative posts. If I tried, it would mean I was neglecting the more important work God has given me, so bothering with some of the mess here is a lose/lose. Plus, I am not going to go chasing down rabbit trails that refute what I know is true anyway. Time wasting!! I do believe there are people well-equipped and called to such things. It is not me!

Spending time here is like being a criminal psychologist. Too much darkness is not good for the soul. Its certainly not for everyone and anyone here who wants to follow the Lord should put Him in first place and only share what is given to them. "Avoid foolish disputes" was always a good bit of Biblical advice @TeresaP7 ! Keep in touch!

 

[JoChris]

I like this. Encouraging. I’ve kind of walked away from here. I only joined a few months ago. I love the Christian threads and reading about what God is doing. Other than that, there is so much darkness here.

My life is busy enough that I don’t have time to research everything enough to respond well to some of the argumentative posts. If I tried, it would mean I was neglecting the more important work God has given me, so bothering with some of the mess here is a lose/lose. Plus, I am not going to go chasing down rabbit trails that refute what I know is true anyway. Time wasting!! I do believe there are people well-equipped and called to such things. It is not me!

Well you have just made my day. I hummed and ha-ed because I didn't want to get drawn back into darkness either.

If you don't believe your role is to argue - I will always conveniently blame my father's temperament! - then please visit here on this thread. Encouragement, prayer and constructive criticism are more than needed here now.

e.g. in constructive criticism -you might see stuff we aren't noticing in an underlying tone. I am in a totally different time zone so I might have missed a message that should be addressed. etc. etc.