Twelve Tribes of Israel info & research thread

Sanchuniathon

Rookie
Joined
Feb 2, 2020
Messages
24
Without going into too much detail here, because it can be explored privately; although might not be easy to find:

The words Venetian and Phoenician, seem to have the same root, and describe the same thing: Venus as in Venusian ... the people who identified themselves with that planet.

They were basically the same people, but with migrations most of those who had settled in Venice would have left by now?

E.g. "Queen Victoria, the matriarch of the Venetian Black Guelphs" https://www.intellihub.com/venetian-black-nobility-roots-of-todays-ruling-oligarchy/

Guelph is thought to derive from the first letter of the Hebrew alphabet Aleph, which is logical, as Brit-ish are Hebrew words Berith+ish: בְּרִית + אִישׁ (reversed Hebrew written right to left), meaning Covenant + people. As already described above.

And Aleph is represented by the red Saltire cross in the British flag - see below.

These seem to add further proof that the British are the true Hebrews.

Christ's words in the British Flag

View attachment 32131
I don't think that a phonetic similarity between "Phoenician" and "Venetian" is enough to establish a link between the two but if they are in fact in relation to (the star of) Venus; then it's pagan: Ishtar. Phoenicians were pagan and so was the ruling class of Venice (Kabbalist). That is not to say that there no relation between the two (direct or indirect) - Venice operated very similarity to the Phoenicians in dominating the sea trade of the Mediterranean basin. Both were also very secretive and relied on a vast network of intelligence and mercenaries to ensure their hegemony.

In reference to the picture you posted, the squared "Hebrew" letters derive from the Imperial Aramaic. Before that, the "Hebrew" alphabet was actually the from the Canaanite/Phoenician one.
 






Last edited:

Phithx

Veteran
Joined
Nov 5, 2019
Messages
549
I don't think that a phonetic similarity between "Phoenician" and "Venetian" is enough to establish a link between the two
Understood. We just have differing opinions on that.

but if they are in fact in relation to (the star of) Venus; then it's pagan: Ishtar.
There must have been hundreds of groups that venerated Venus in some way or other?

Phoenicians were pagan and so was the ruling class of Venice (Kabbalist).
The word 'pagan' means different things to different people, so I tend to avoid it.

But Kabbalists yes: the kingdom of Judah-Pharez had many non-Judah converts to their religion: (i) when they returned from Babylonian captivity in about 538BC (Ezra 2:31, 2:59, 2:62, 6:21, 9:2, 10:13 Ester 8:17, Neh. 7:34), and (ii) again in 100BC under John "the Hammer" Hyercanus, and (iii) again when the Ashkenazis converted to it from 740AD onwards. More about that here if you like.

That is not to say that there no relation between the two (direct or indirect) - Venice operated very similarity to the Phoenicians in dominating the sea trade of the Mediterranean basin. Both were also very secretive and relied on a vast network of intelligence and mercenaries to ensure their hegemony.
Understood.

In reference to the picture you posted, the squared "Hebrew" letters derive from the Imperial Aramaic. Before that, the "Hebrew" alphabet was actually the from the Canaanite/Phoenician one.
Understood.

Re: Canaanite/Phoenician, I think the mixing of Judah-Pharez with the many converts night explain the Canaanite/Phoenician joinder: as in Converts/Hebrews?

In fact the converts now probably outnumber the original true stock, because the population that returned to Jerusalem was quite small, but they retain the original true-Hebrew-stock's name: Phoenician?

E Pluribus Unum - Out of Many One; which is also the moto on the American seal, another true Hebrew/Israel nation.

And the 'Canaan' component could also have simply a land-of-Canaan name connection; as in the Phoenecians lived in the land that the Canaanites used to live in?
 






Last edited:

A Freeman

Star
Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
1,470
• "As chronicled in the Bible" is not a serious argument. There is no evidence that the "Hebrews" (whoever they were) were ever enslaved in Egypt.
According to whom? There is plenty of archaelogical evidence, and links to research work in that area has been linked already within this thread. Please take the time to investigate it thoroughly, before jumping to (erroneous) conclusions.

All we know is that they came from the other side of the river (i.e. Mesopotamia) - this seems to have happened when the Persian Empire expanded (there is serious indication that the ruling class of Persia created Judaism). Additionally, how could slaves develop a script/alphabet?
Joseph was given control of all of Egypt, answering only to Pharoah, according to the historical record. We also now have the exact location of his dwelling in Egypt, and the tombs where he and his 11 brothers were buried, including where Joseph's remains were removed from the tomb to be carried with the Israelites into the Promised Land.

Agreed about the Persian influence (Farsi/Pharisee) on Talmudic Judaism.

The Canaanites/Phoenicians of the city-state of Byblos for instance had a script made of hundreds characters as early as 2500 BCE. The same Canaanites/Phoenicians from Byblos had commercial ties with Egypt as early as 3500 BCE as well. We can do the math as to who really develop the Canaanite/Phoenician alphabet that lead to other alphabets.
The only inhabitants of Canaan that were Phoenicians were the Israelites. And as for the dating of all of these ancient manuscripts, they rely on carbon 14 dating, which is KNOWN to be widely inaccurate, and therefore cannot be trusted. In carbon dating, the #1 corrupter of a sample is WATER, which washes the radioactivity out prematurely, making samples APPEAR to be hundreds and sometimes thousands of years older than they really are.

This too has already been addressed within this thread.

• There is no such thing as Proto or Paleo Hebrew - the terminology was invented by a Yiddish linguist (Solomon Binbaum) in the early 1950s to distinguish the origin of the Canaanite/Phoenician alphabet from the "Hebrew" one. This is odd since he knew and acknowledged that the two were nearly indistinguishable. Truth is: there was no two alphabets but one, the Canaanite/Phoenician.
The truth is the one alphabet was Hebrew/Phoenician, as it was the Hebrews that lived in Canaan.

• Solomon (whoever he was) could not even built his temple and asked the Canaanites/Phoenicians' help (King Hiram). Yet, you believe he built a navy? The envious authors of the "Hebrew" Bible expropriated the glory and feats of the Phoenicians to make up for their insignificance. You seem to know the Bible well, and so, you should know how Old Testament writes pejoratively of the Phoenicians' glorious cities.
We can trace the lineage from Adam through David and Solomon, to Zedekiah, and from there through Zedekiah's daughter Teia Tephi to Ireland, through Scotland and England, to King George VI. So there's no need for anyone to guess at who Solomon was, or what he did, as it's been recorded in the same historical text that secular historians have used.

You seem to think you can discount the Bible's accuracy by making unsubstantiated claims, presumably so you can dismiss it and its contents as a work of fiction. That is an extremely arrogant and thus ignorant approach to researching the history of this world, particularly given every time science "disproves" the Bible in some manner, it isn't long before science is proven to be in error, exactly as the Bible prophesied it would thousands of years in advance (King of kings' Bible - 1 Tim. 5:20).

• The Phoenicians were not Israelites. According to Israel Finkelstein, the Israelites were Canaanites, who through a socio-economic process, became a separate group who settled in the hills. Both Canaanites, yes, but different.
You have it exactly backwards. The Israelites settled in Canaan, but they were NOT Canaanites any more than the counterfeit Jews are Israelites just because they live in the land that is referred to as Israel.

• Is the etymology of "British" and/or "Britain confirmed?
Yes. Brit/berit is Hebrew and means "Covenant" and "ish" means the same thing in Hebrew as it does in English or in Welsh (the closest language to Hebrew on the planet): "the people of".

• "Rule Britannia" - the creation of the British Empire, its intelligence network and its navy was the work of the Venetian Oligarchy. You should investigate how the Venetian fondi moved north to created the Banks of Amsterdam, of England, the many colonial enterprises (Venice, Turkey, Levant, East-India, etc) to finally establish the British Empire.
Britannia was a real woman, whose name was Teia Tephi. She came to Ireland from Jerusalem, via Tanis, Egypt, Gibraltar and Cornwall 2600 years ago with the Bible prophet Jeremiah. That's over 2000 years before the banksters took over.

• I don't know who is a counterfeit Jew and who is a real one.
By their own admission, over 95% of the so-called Jews today are Ashkenazis. Ashkenaz was the grandson of Noah's son Japheth, NOT Shem/Sem, from who all Semites originated (Gen. 10:1-3).

The term "Jew" was originally short for "Judah" (Jew-dah), which was ONE of the 12 tribes of Israel. It was later applied to the 2-tribed "House of Judah" (the tribes of Judah and Benjamin) after the Kingdom of Israel split into two separate kingdoms under the reign of Solomon's son Rehoboam.

The term was NEVER used at any time throughout Scriptures to refer to the 10-tribed "House of Israel", nor did it ever apply to the united 12-tribe Kingdom of Israel before the split. Today, both the land and the name Israel have been stolen by the Ashkenazis, who call themselves "Jews" but most certainly are not.

EVERYTHING about the Ashkenazi is counterfeit, including their false claim to be Biblical Jews and Semites. They are, as their name clearly states, descended from ASHKENAZ, the grandson of Noah's son Japheth (through Japheth's son Gomer), NOT Noah's son Shem/Sem. So the AshkeNAZI are Japhethites, NOT Semites and thus have NO Biblical right to one-inch of the land of Israel, that they've stolen from TRUE Israel, with their Rothschild sponsored and co-authored Balfour Declaration, to set up their counterfeit-Jewish state. The same state that Adolf Hitler was the mid-wife of, because without him and their scam there would be no counterfeit-Jewish state in the land of Israel today.

So their incapacitating slur of “anti-Semitism” is a complete load of nonsense and a bare-faced LIE because it is the AshkeNAZIS that are the anti-Semites. They absolutely HATE TRUE Israel, the British and Anglo-Saxon Americans and thus have set out to enslave and destroy both nations, through their banksterism and murderous war profiteering.

Revelation 2:9, 3:9
2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and [I know] the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are NOT, but [are] (Idumeans) the synagogue of Satan.
3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are NOT, but do LIE (Idumeans); behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

What I know is that Judaism is a man-made construct based on older Mesopotamian, Persian, Canaanite and Egyptian stories, beliefs and concepts.
Really? And how exactly would you know tha please? From more counterfeit Jewish revisionist history perhaps?

The creation of Israel, as I have pointed out before, is an Anglo-Saxon machination. Jews (those you call counterfeit) were used to make it happen. Israel is a colonial endeavor not any different than Canada, Australia, etc.
If you don't know who the counterfeit Jews actually are, or where they came from, or how they actually acquired the land of Israel from the true people Israel (the British), how could you possibly have any clue as to what you're talking about please?

Canada (the tribe of Asher) and Australia (the tribes of Issachar and Zebulun) are part of the Commonwealth, i.e. part of the ten "lost tribes of Israel.

The Current Day Locations of the Israelite Tribes

The counterfeit Jews ("Israelis") are NOT part of the tribes of Israel; they're only pretending to be. Two very different things. It was the British who liberated Jerusalem from the treading down by the Gentiles (Turkish Edomites) according to prophecy on 9 December 1917, NOT "Israelis".
 






Sanchuniathon

Rookie
Joined
Feb 2, 2020
Messages
24
According to whom? There is plenty of archaelogical evidence, and links to research work in that area has been linked already within this thread. Please take the time to investigate it thoroughly, before jumping to (erroneous) conclusions.


Joseph was given control of all of Egypt, answering only to Pharoah, according to the historical record. We also now have the exact location of his dwelling in Egypt, and the tombs where he and his 11 brothers were buried, including where Joseph's remains were removed from the tomb to be carried with the Israelites into the Promised Land.

Agreed about the Persian influence (Farsi/Pharisee) on Talmudic Judaism.


The only inhabitants of Canaan that were Phoenicians were the Israelites. And as for the dating of all of these ancient manuscripts, they rely on carbon 14 dating, which is KNOWN to be widely inaccurate, and therefore cannot be trusted. In carbon dating, the #1 corrupter of a sample is WATER, which washes the radioactivity out prematurely, making samples APPEAR to be hundreds and sometimes thousands of years older than they really are.

This too has already been addressed within this thread.


The truth is the one alphabet was Hebrew/Phoenician, as it was the Hebrews that lived in Canaan.


We can trace the lineage from Adam through David and Solomon, to Zedekiah, and from there through Zedekiah's daughter Teia Tephi to Ireland, through Scotland and England, to King George VI. So there's no need for anyone to guess at who Solomon was, or what he did, as it's been recorded in the same historical text that secular historians have used.

You seem to think you can discount the Bible's accuracy by making unsubstantiated claims, presumably so you can dismiss it and its contents as a work of fiction. That is an extremely arrogant and thus ignorant approach to researching the history of this world, particularly given every time science "disproves" the Bible in some manner, it isn't long before science is proven to be in error, exactly as the Bible prophesied it would thousands of years in advance (King of kings' Bible - 1 Tim. 5:20).


You have it exactly backwards. The Israelites settled in Canaan, but they were NOT Canaanites any more than the counterfeit Jews are Israelites just because they live in the land that is referred to as Israel.



Yes. Brit/berit is Hebrew and means "Covenant" and "ish" means the same thing in Hebrew as it does in English or in Welsh (the closest language to Hebrew on the planet): "the people of".


Britannia was a real woman, whose name was Teia Tephi. She came to Ireland from Jerusalem, via Tanis, Egypt, Gibraltar and Cornwall 2600 years ago with the Bible prophet Jeremiah. That's over 2000 years before the banksters took over.


By their own admission, over 95% of the so-called Jews today are Ashkenazis. Ashkenaz was the grandson of Noah's son Japheth, NOT Shem/Sem, from who all Semites originated (Gen. 10:1-3).

The term "Jew" was originally short for "Judah" (Jew-dah), which was ONE of the 12 tribes of Israel. It was later applied to the 2-tribed "House of Judah" (the tribes of Judah and Benjamin) after the Kingdom of Israel split into two separate kingdoms under the reign of Solomon's son Rehoboam.

The term was NEVER used at any time throughout Scriptures to refer to the 10-tribed "House of Israel", nor did it ever apply to the united 12-tribe Kingdom of Israel before the split. Today, both the land and the name Israel have been stolen by the Ashkenazis, who call themselves "Jews" but most certainly are not.

EVERYTHING about the Ashkenazi is counterfeit, including their false claim to be Biblical Jews and Semites. They are, as their name clearly states, descended from ASHKENAZ, the grandson of Noah's son Japheth (through Japheth's son Gomer), NOT Noah's son Shem/Sem. So the AshkeNAZI are Japhethites, NOT Semites and thus have NO Biblical right to one-inch of the land of Israel, that they've stolen from TRUE Israel, with their Rothschild sponsored and co-authored Balfour Declaration, to set up their counterfeit-Jewish state. The same state that Adolf Hitler was the mid-wife of, because without him and their scam there would be no counterfeit-Jewish state in the land of Israel today.

So their incapacitating slur of “anti-Semitism” is a complete load of nonsense and a bare-faced LIE because it is the AshkeNAZIS that are the anti-Semites. They absolutely HATE TRUE Israel, the British and Anglo-Saxon Americans and thus have set out to enslave and destroy both nations, through their banksterism and murderous war profiteering.

Revelation 2:9, 3:9
2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and [I know] the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are NOT, but [are] (Idumeans) the synagogue of Satan.
3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are NOT, but do LIE (Idumeans); behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.


Really? And how exactly would you know tha please? From more counterfeit Jewish revisionist history perhaps?


If you don't know who the counterfeit Jews actually are, or where they came from, or how they actually acquired the land of Israel from the true people Israel (the British), how could you possibly have any clue as to what you're talking about please?

Canada (the tribe of Asher) and Australia (the tribes of Issachar and Zebulun) are part of the Commonwealth, i.e. part of the ten "lost tribes of Israel.

The Current Day Locations of the Israelite Tribes

The counterfeit Jews ("Israelis") are NOT part of the tribes of Israel; they're only pretending to be. Two very different things. It was the British who liberated Jerusalem from the treading down by the Gentiles (Turkish Edomites) according to prophecy on 9 December 1917, NOT "Israelis".
According to forensic archeologists, there was no enslaved "Hebrews" in Egypt, no Exodus, no invasion of Canaan, no mass-killing of the Canaanites, no establishment of Kingdoms, no Saul, David, Solomon, etc. One of those archeologists is Ze’ev Herzog (Israeli archeologist, professor of archaeology at The Department of Archaeology and Ancient Near Eastern Cultures at Tel Aviv University.):

Following 70 years of intensive excavations in the Land of Israel, archaeologists have found out: The patriarchs' acts are legendary, the Israelites did not sojourn in Egypt or make an exodus, they did not conquer the land. Neither is there any mention of the empire of David and Solomon, nor of the source of belief in the God of Israel. These facts have been known for years, but Israel is a stubborn people and nobody wants to hear about it.

The "evidence" suggesting otherwise in this thread relies heavily on Biblical archeology - which builds history around the Bible in the hope to corroborate it.

The mythical story of Moses (rebelling against polytheism, received God's word on a mount, sojourning with his disciples in the desert, crossing a sea, the Promised Land) is based on the historical Egyptian King Akhenaten. The stories of the two are identical. Discovery Channel has a show called "Mummies Unwrapped" - Episode 5 (Chasing the Mummy of Moses) explores it:


Suggesting that the Phoenicians were Israelites/Hebrews is unfounded. Nobody, including the Bible, claims such thing. As a matter of fact, the Bible clearly distinguishes the two. The ancient people known as Phoenicians were seafaring Canaanite merchants who lived in a confederation of independent city-states located on the Levantine coast (Northern Award (present-day Syria) to Southern Dor (present-day Palestine/Israel)). They had settled there from the Southern Sumer several thousands of years ago. Byblos for instance has been inhabited since at least 8000 BCE. Above all, they did not call themselves "Phoenician" - the name was given to them by the ancient Greeks. They worshipped a pantheon of Gods - which the Greeks took to create their mythology. Also, the Bible clearly states that Phoenicia, the region of Baalbek, the region of the Phillistines and pockets within the alleged conquered land were not taken by the "Hebrews". Truth is, nothing was actually ever conquered:

"Also archaeological evidence contradicts the picture in Joshua. In the Ancient Near East, destroyed cities tended to be leveled, and then a new city would just be built on top of the ruins, and you would have these slowly rising mounds--each one of those is called a tell (so you may have heard of Tell Dor?). These are mounds which represent the successive layers of destroyed and rebuilt cities. And excavations will reveal the destruction layers under the floor of new cities.

So following the biblical account, we would expect evidence of a thirteenth century destruction of Canaanite cities. And archaeologists for a long time were convinced that they would find these destruction layers. But they were disappointed.

They have found really no evidence of extensive conquest and destruction in thirteenth and twelfth century archaeological layers. Some of the sites that are said to be destroyed by Joshua and the Israelites weren't even occupied in this period, the late Bronze Age, beginning of the Iron Age; the Iron Age begins around 1200.

Excavations at Jericho and Ai indicate that both of these towns were laid waste at least 200 years before the probable time of Joshua; so there weren't even any walls in Jericho at the time of Joshua. Of 20 identifiable sites that were said to be conquered or captured by Joshua and the next generations, only two show destruction layers for this time, Hazor and Beth-el. And yet interestingly enough, Hazor's capture described in Joshua is contradicted elsewhere in the Bible, because in Judges 4 and 5, it is still a Canaanite city. It is said there that it is still a Canaanite city and Joshua failed to take it." ---
Dr. Christine Hayes, “Introduction to the Old Testament”, Yale University

Looking at how the stories of the Book of Genesis is taken from Mesopotamia, how the story of Moses is taken from Akhenaten, how Canaan was never invaded, etc; it should be clear to any person of Reason that the Old Testament is a book of myths and legends.

p.s. The ancient "Hebrew" language was Canaanite (a.k.a. Phoenician).

PHOENICIAN OF PLAUTUS:
Byth lym mo thym nociothii nel ech an ti daisc machon
Ys i do iebrim thyfe lyth chy lya chon temlyph ula.

EARLY IRISH-CELTIC:
Beth liom' mo thime nociaithe, niel ach an ti dairie mae coinne
Is i de leabhraim tafach leith, chi lis con teampluibh ulla.



____

I agree that Ashkenazis are mere converts to Judaism (8th century AD) who pretend to be Semites but the theory that the Anglo-Saxon, Celts and Americans are the real descendants of the "Lost Tribes" is as ludicrous. Prior to the Elizabethan era, there was no talks of such idea - none whatsoever. Why? It only came to be with the Venetian Oligarchy corrupting England's courts and later moving north - please refer to "How the Venetian virus infected and took over England". British Israelism also coincided with the consolidation of the Church of England, the formation of a navy and the creation of an intelligence (spy) network in England - all of which happened under the guidance of Venice. I cannot emphasize the Venetian angle enough.

To the best of my knowledge, the goal to destroy Christianity and the sovereign nation-state is not inherent, at least not strictly, to the "counterfeit Jews". It has its roots with the Church hunting/killing the Knights Templar and their Grand Master, Jacques De Mollay in the 14th century AD. Or more broadly speaking, it has to do with the Kabbalists. In Jerusalem, the Knights Templar was said to have discovered a treasure in (said) Solomon's Temple. It was not valuables like gold, jewelry, etc but Eastern occult knowledge we call "Kabbalah" today. For the record, Kabbalah is not Jewish in origin or development. Upoing their return, the Knights Templar became fabulously wealthy and aimed to rule the world. The Church considered them a threat and got rid of them. Some escaped north to Scotland, remained underground to later emerged as the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry. I would speculate that since the Church has persecuted both the Knights Templar and the Jews of Europe, the latter two see eye to eye in regards to Christianity and sovereign nation-states.

The creation of present-day Israel, I insist, was the machination of Kabbalists (many of whom are Anglo-Saxon). WW1 liberated Palestine from the Ottoman Empire (who was in alliance with Britain's competitor, Germany). WW2 unleashed Nazism to forcibly migrate the (counterfeit) Jews of Europe, Eastern Europe, Russia and later ROW. It should be noted that WW2 also prevented a German-Russian alliance. What you call the "liberation of Jerusalem" by Britain was in reality an exchange. When Egyptian leader, Mohammed Ali -- who had secured the technologies that had made of Europe an advanced continent (paradoxically with knowledge that originated from the East thousands of years before) and who had made allies throughout the region -- sought to take the Middle East out of its stagnation state to modernize it; he threatened both the Ottoman Sultan's hegemony and the one of the British East-India Company. Britain offered to take care of Ali (in waging a bloody war against him under Henry Churchill) in exchange for a diplomatic post in Jerusalem. Little did the agreeing Sultan knew, he was signing his own death sentence as shortly after, the British-backed Young Turks overthrew him. The British-backed Bolsheviks in Russia achieved a similar feat years earlier - in getting rid of another British competitor: the Tsar (who, too, was backed stabbed by the British ruling class (after help Britain win the war)). Those you call the "real Jews" are very much on board with those you call "counterfeit Jews" to make all this happen. The Balfour Declaration for instance was in reality, the Cecil Declaration. Lord Balfour only acted as the facade for what the Cecil family (who have always been anti-American) had planned centuries before: the creation of Israel.
 






Last edited:

A Freeman

Star
Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
1,470
According to forensic archeologists, there was no enslaved "Hebrews" in Egypt, no Exodus, no invasion of Canaan, no mass-killing of the Canaanites, no establishment of Kingdoms, no Saul, David, Solomon, etc. One of those archeologists is Ze’ev Herzog (Israeli archeologist, professor of archaeology at The Department of Archaeology and Ancient Near Eastern Cultures at Tel Aviv University.):

Following 70 years of intensive excavations in the Land of Israel, archaeologists have found out: The patriarchs' acts are legendary, the Israelites did not sojourn in Egypt or make an exodus, they did not conquer the land. Neither is there any mention of the empire of David and Solomon, nor of the source of belief in the God of Israel. These facts have been known for years, but Israel is a stubborn people and nobody wants to hear about it.
Why would anyone believe a counterfeit Jew who is pretending to be someone he can't possibly be? Do you really not understand that all of this so-called evidence is meant to discredit the Bible, which the counterfeit Jews have been trying to do for thousands of years, so they can falsely claim to be “God's Chosen people”.

Have you ever read any of the Talmud please? The organized religion known as Judaism is based upon the Talmud, NOT the Bible.

The "evidence" suggesting otherwise in this thread relies heavily on Biblical archeology - which builds history around the Bible in the hope to corroborate it.
At least two-thirds of the Bible is prophecy, over 99% of which has already been fulfilled in exact and minute detail. Only a fool would look at that track record, and think that the remaining <1% won't likewise be fulfilled in exact and minute detail, or that the Bible is some work of fiction, when it can and still does accurately predict events that are sometimes thousands of years into the future.

These facts leave no reasonable doubt that the Bible is of extra-terrestrial origin, exactly as Christ said, which is why it can so easily predict future events which mankind is incapable of doing, even with our present level of technology.

IF that is clearly understood, then the Bible would be the LOGICAL starting place for any HONEST and UNBIASED research effort, whether it be in the field of archaeology or elsewhere. That's why Egyptology used the Bible as an anchor point for their chronology. The only difficulty is they made assumptions that have proven to be in error which have led to these false claims that there's no evidence of the Exodus, no evidence of Moses, etc.

Once those errors are corrected, amazingly we have volumes of archaelogical evidence of the Israelites in Egypt, and of their Exodus out of Egypt, along with confirmation of other referenced events in the historical text we refer to as the Bible.

The mythical story of Moses (rebelling against polytheism, received God's word on a mount, sojourning with his disciples in the desert, crossing a sea, the Promised Land) is based on the historical Egyptian King Akhenaten. The stories of the two are identical. Discovery Channel has a show called "Mummies Unwrapped" - Episode 5 (Chasing the Mummy of Moses) explores it:

]
Which is all total nonsense, based upon scientific ASSUMPTIONS (LIES) that are intentionally biased and totally illogical.

How would anyone positively identify the “mummy of Moses”? Can you really not see this is nothing more than a baseless propaganda hit piece against the Bible?

Perhaps the irony escaped you of scientists supposedly finding the mummified remains of someone they're claiming is a “mythical figure” in a “mythical story”? How would they positively identify ANY mummified remains as belonging to Moses? What historical records would they use to confirm their findings?

Can you really not see how stupid and thoughtless such attacks really are? And what their ultimate goal really is?

Suggesting that the Phoenicians were Israelites/Hebrews is unfounded.
Because you say so, whilst ignoring all of the evidence that proves you to be in error?

Nobody, including the Bible, claims such thing. As a matter of fact, the Bible clearly distinguishes the two. The ancient people known as Phoenicians were seafaring Canaanite merchants who lived in a confederation of independent city-states located on the Levantine coast (Northern Award (present-day Syria) to Southern Dor (present-day Palestine/Israel)). They had settled there from the Southern Sumer several thousands of years ago.
Would you be so kind as to point out where in the Bible it says all of these things please?

Byblos for instance has been inhabited since at least 8000 BCE.
Based on what? More totally unreliable radiocarbon dating?


Above all, they did not call themselves "Phoenician" - the name was given to them by the ancient Greeks. They worshipped a pantheon of Gods - which the Greeks took to create their mythology. Also, the Bible clearly states that Phoenicia, the region of Baalbek, the region of the Phillistines and pockets within the alleged conquered land were not taken by the "Hebrews". Truth is, nothing was actually ever conquered:

"Also archaeological evidence contradicts the picture in Joshua. In the Ancient Near East, destroyed cities tended to be leveled, and then a new city would just be built on top of the ruins, and you would have these slowly rising mounds--each one of those is called a tell (so you may have heard of Tell Dor?). These are mounds which represent the successive layers of destroyed and rebuilt cities. And excavations will reveal the destruction layers under the floor of new cities.
Do you think the American Indians referred to themselves as Indians before white, European settlers started calling them that? Does that somehow change what the various American Indian tribes did or somehow prove that they weren't really Indians, because the white, European settlers worshiped God or because we didn't find an arrowhead from one of them in some place a scientist hundreds of years later claimed it should be?

Perhaps another scientist used radiocarbon dating to determine the age of the arrowheads they did find to be 5,000 years old, at which point they were coerced into scientifically concluding that the American Indians lived thousands of years before the settlers arrived, and thus all of the recorded stories the settlers had of their dealings with the people we now refer to as the American Indians must be a figment of their imagination. We can therefore label their historical records as a work of fiction and throw them out.

Does the above hypothetical account help you see how irrational your so-called evidence really is?

So following the biblical account, we would expect evidence of a thirteenth century destruction of Canaanite cities. And archaeologists for a long time were convinced that they would find these destruction layers. But they were disappointed.
BECAUSE THEY WERE LOOKING IN THE WRONG TIME AND PLACE FOR THE EVIDENCE.

Once their chronological errors were corrected, amazingly and quite literally tons of evidence in support of the Biblical historical accounts have been found.

They have found really no evidence of extensive conquest and destruction in thirteenth and twelfth century archaeological layers. Some of the sites that are said to be destroyed by Joshua and the Israelites weren't even occupied in this period, the late Bronze Age, beginning of the Iron Age; the Iron Age begins around 1200.
Again, based on erroneous assumptions about the chronology, which themselves were based upon circular illogic:-

- Egyptologists use the Bible to date the start of the 22nd Dynasty to 945 BC

- They then date Ramesses II based on that 22nd Dynasty Date

- They then find no evidence for the Exodus and Conquest in the time of Ramesses

- They therefore reject the Bible as a work of 'pious fiction'

- So the Bible is used to establish Egyptian chronology which is then used to dismiss the Bible

- This is a prime example of a circular argument!

Excavations at Jericho and Ai indicate that both of these towns were laid waste at least 200 years before the probable time of Joshua; so there weren't even any walls in Jericho at the time of Joshua. Of 20 identifiable sites that were said to be conquered or captured by Joshua and the next generations, only two show destruction layers for this time, Hazor and Beth-el. And yet interestingly enough, Hazor's capture described in Joshua is contradicted elsewhere in the Bible, because in Judges 4 and 5, it is still a Canaanite city. It is said there that it is still a Canaanite city and Joshua failed to take it." --- Dr. Christine Hayes, “Introduction to the Old Testament”, Yale University
All of which is still based on erroneous assumptions about the chronology and circular illogic, to unsurprisingly arrive at totally irrational conclusions.

Looking at how the stories of the Book of Genesis is taken from Mesopotamia, how the story of Moses is taken from Akhenaten, how Canaan was never invaded, etc; it should be clear to any person of Reason that the Old Testament is a book of myths and legends.
The first five books of the Bible (namely Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy), aka the Pentateuch, the books of Moses, and the Torah contain not only the historical record of the Exodus, but also our Creator's Perfect Law of Liberty (The Law).

The Law provides us not only the Commandments, which are the basic, universal principles of The Law, but also with the perfect system of governance (with no politicians, PACs or lobbyists), the perfect system of justice (with no attorneys/lawyers/barristers and no black-robed judges), theperfect agricultural policy (with no toxic chemicals or GMOs), theperfect economic policy (with no banksters, usury, poverty or the associated crime) and theperfect healthy diet.

Anyone who takes an honest, reasonable look at the world today should realize that things are NOT going well. Governments rule over “free” people. Our legal system is in absolute shambles, with injustice being meted out every day in every single courtroom around the world, all of which practice some form of Roman “law”.

We are intentionally manipulating the genetic code of our crops, with no real understanding of how that genetic code (the programming language of life) works or why it was designed the way that it was, while at the same time poisoning those same crops, the soil and the rivers and streams and oceans with a slurry of toxic chemicals that will eventually destroy everything. And not only do we consume all of these toxins and genetically-modified organisms, but we also consume all of the unclean animals which were designed to be the planetary waste management system, to help deal with all of these toxins.

We also allow a very small group of extremely evil people to dictate monetary policy to the entire world, because we are either too lazy or too stupid to know that it is an obvious ponzi scheme which will eventually transfer all of the world's wealth into their hands via a mechanism which is prohibited in The Law: USURY. And then we wonder why the richest 1% of this world own and/or control over 90% of the world's resources, whilst the rest of us live off of the crumbs from their table, and then wonder what we can do about all of the poverty and the crime poverty causes.

If someone was motivated to actually take the time to educate themselves by reading and studying these extremely relevant details found in The Law, i.e. the first five books of the Bible which contain the historical record of the Exodus, they might begin to understand the foundational WISDOM and UNDERSTANDING behind its design. A reasonable human+Being might even begin to wonder why these amazing principles – which would solve ALL of the world's problems – are being ignored by the people who are presently running this planet into the ground, for their master: Lucifer/Satan/Iblis.

Of course the above is in addition to the prophecies contained within those first five books, some of which is still unfolding today in great detail, as well as the encoded information which likewise has been the source of much debate.

So if you wish to pretend that a bunch of clueless scientists, who employ circular ILLOGIC and flawed dating techniques that are known to be wildly inaccurate and totally unreliable, have somehow finally succeeded in proving the Bible wrong, then you are choosing of your own free-will to believe in fantasies instead of the truth. As long as you go down that path, you will continue to see everything upside down and backwards, as you undoubtedly are.

1 Timothy 5:20-21
5:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane [and] vain babblings, and OPPOSITIONS OF SCIENCE (knowledge) FALSELY SO CALLED:
5:21 Which some professing [to have] have erred concerning the faith. Grace [be] with thee. Amen.

p.s. The ancient "Hebrew" language was Canaanite (a.k.a. Phoenician).
TRUTH: The ancient language in Canaan was Hebrew (a.k.a. Phoenician) used by the ISRAELITES.

PHOENICIAN OF PLAUTUS:

Byth lym mo thym nociothii nel ech an ti daisc machon
Ys i do iebrim thyfe lyth chy lya chon temlyph ula.

EARLY IRISH-CELTIC:
Beth liom' mo thime nociaithe, niel ach an ti dairie mae coinne
Is i de leabhraim tafach leith, chi lis con teampluibh ulla.

]
Thank-you. Nice find. It's really no wonder that these are almost identical.

The Celts are Israelites Under Another Name
____

I agree that Ashkenazis are mere converts to Judaism (8th century AD) who pretend to be Semites
It's not just the AshkeNAZIS/Khazars. They were the third recorded mass-conversion to Talmudic Judaism. There were two other mass conversions: the first in Babylon, where the Talmud was first written, and the second under John Hyrcanus c. 100 BC, where the Idumean Edomites in and around Jerusalem were forced to convert. These are the same Idumean Edomites who eventually formed the ruling body of Talmudic Judaism known as the Sanhedrin.

but the theory that the Anglo-Saxon, Celts and Americans are the real descendants of the "Lost Tribes" is as ludicrous.
Perhaps to someone who is seeing everything upside down and backwards, but not to any reasonably-minded human+Being who is willing to look at all of the evidence with an open-mind.

Prior to the Elizabethan era, there was no talks of such idea - none whatsoever. Why?
Because it wasn't yet the time of the revealing (Dan. 12:1-4, Rev. 5:1-5, Rev. 10:7-10, Mal. 4, Matt. 24:27).

Romans 11:24-25
11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree*: how much more shall these, which be the natural [branches], be grafted into their own olive tree?
11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness (as to their true identity) is happened to part of Israel (the ten "lost" tribes - the House of Israel), until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in (Dan. 12:7).

*the olive tree represents the 10-tribed “House of Israel” (Jer. 11:16, Zech. 4:3, 11-14 – see also Gen. 48:16) whereas the 2-tribed “House of Judah” is represented by the fig-tree (Jer. 24:5, Matt. 21:19, Matt. 27:25).

Daniel 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which [was] upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by Him that liveth for ever that [it shall be] for a Time (360), Times (2 = 720), and an half (180) (1260 years in total - 9/Dec./1917 when Jerusalem was liberated from the "Treading Down of Jerusalem by the Gentiles" by the British under Gen. Allenby); and when He shall have accomplished to scatter the power of The Holy People (Israel - Gen. 48:11; 16)(Rev. 11:3; 7), all these [things] shall be finished.

It only came to be with the Venetian Oligarchy corrupting England's courts and later moving north - please refer to "How the Venetian virus infected and took over England".
Thank-you, but the Rothschild banking cartel taking over the Bank of England is actually further proof of the age-old plot by these imposters to seize control of the finances and government of England, to eventually try to replace them in people's minds as “Israel”. And that's exactly what they've managed to do, through their Rothschild sponsored and co-authored Balfour declaration.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration

It would be much more reasonable to see what the Rothschilds and their agents have done as a coup.

British Israelism also coincided with the consolidation of the Church of England, the formation of a navy and the creation of an intelligence (spy) network in England - all of which happened under the guidance of Venice. I cannot emphasize the Venetian angle enough.
You're leaving out who was actually running the “Venetian angle”, which is the most important part: the Jesuits.

And who are the Jesuits? They are crypto-counterfeit Jews, pretending to be Roman Catholics, who own and control the Vatican finances as well as the “intelligence” gathering networks (spies) all over the world. Sound familiar?

The Church of England was formed to break free of Rome, only to have the Jesuits infiltrate it and run it from within.

To the best of my knowledge, the goal to destroy Christianity and the sovereign nation-state is not inherent, at least not strictly, to the "counterfeit Jews".
Then your knowledge is sorely lacking, because that's exactly what their goal is, as evidenced by both their own writings and their actions. The Jesuits have infiltrated and run every so-called Protestant denomination of Christianity from within, which should explain why the Protestant churches are now in such a state of moral decline and depravity that they are helping to usher in all of this gender-fluidity nonsense, straight out of the Talmud and the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion.

In the U.S. their Chabad Lubavich front group has been successful in getting their “Noahide Laws” on the books (Public Law 102-14), which are designed to exterminate “Christians” at the appointed time. That's why they've promoted their fake, revisionist history about the holocaust, and the poor persecuted “Jews”, complete with their self-fabricated cry of “anti-semitism” any time the truth of their evil nature and plans are exposed.

The Noahide Conspiracy

Adolf Hitler, who was the illegitimate grandson of a Rothschild, was blessed by the pope and called “the envoy of God”. The counterfeit Jews have no problem sacrificing a few of their own for “the cause”.

It has its roots with the Church hunting/killing the Knights Templar and their Grand Master, Jacques De Mollay in the 14th century AD. Or more broadly speaking, it has to do with the Kabbalists. In Jerusalem, the Knights Templar was said to have discovered a treasure in (said) Solomon's Temple.
Another myth. The “treasure” they would have discovered there are the two most important artifacts on the planet: The Ark of The Covenant and the Stone of Destiny, aka the Lia Fail in Gaelic and Jacob's Pillar Stone. The Stone is the very same stone that Jacob laid his head on in the wilderness near Bethel, and which the Israelites carried around through the wilderness of sin for 40 years during the Exodus from Egypt.

That's why the REAL Stone of Destiny has an obvious wear-mark in the top of it, because it was carried via a pole which was inserted through the rings on either end of it, which bowed under the extreme weight of the stone (458 lbs).

The Ark of The Covenant is currently buried underneath the Mound of the Hostages (2 Chron. 25:24) on the Hill of Tara/Torah, in Co. Meath, IRELAND.

The Stone of Destiny, is still hidden somewhere in Scotland, where it was taken by the 4 Scottish nationalists led by Ian Hamilton, who removed it in the wee morning hours of Christmas day in 1950 from Westminster Abbey, where it had been since Edward the 1st brought it from Scotland after defeating the Scots.

It was not valuables like gold, jewelry, etc but Eastern occult knowledge we call "Kabbalah" today. For the record, Kabbalah is not Jewish in origin or development. Upoing their return, the Knights Templar became fabulously wealthy and aimed to rule the world. The Church considered them a threat and got rid of them. Some escaped north to Scotland, remained underground to later emerged as the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry. I would speculate that since the Church has persecuted both the Knights Templar and the Jews of Europe, the latter two see eye to eye in regards to Christianity and sovereign nation-states.
As above please. The treasures were the two “hostages”, i.e. the Ark of The Covenant and the Stone of Destiny, which have absolutely nothing to do with “kabbalah”, nor the counterfeit Jews, nor the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry (which is another counterfeit Jewish/Jesuit invention), although they would absolutely like to get their hands on those artifacts, so they can destroy them. That way they could continue to perpetuate their LIE that the Bible is a myth.

The creation of present-day Israel, I insist, was the machination of Kabbalists (many of whom are Anglo-Saxon). WW1 liberated Palestine from the Ottoman Empire (who was in alliance with Britain's competitor, Germany).
WW1 didn't liberate anything. It was an army that LIBERATED Palestine and Jerusalem from the “treading down of the Gentiles” (the Turkish Edomite Ottoman Empire) in fulfillment of prophecy (Dan. 12:7). And which army was that? THE BRITISH.

WW2 unleashed Nazism to forcibly migrate the (counterfeit) Jews of Europe, Eastern Europe, Russia and later ROW. It should be noted that WW2 also prevented a German-Russian alliance.
It should be noted well that most of the inhabitants of what is now the counterfeit Jewish state of Israel immigrated there from areas within the former Russian Empire of their own free will, beginning shortly after the British liberated it. That's why the area between 1917 and 1948 was referred to as “British Palestine”.

What you call the "liberation of Jerusalem" by Britain was in reality an exchange.When Egyptian leader, Mohammed Ali -- who had secured the technologies that had made of Europe an advanced continent (paradoxically with knowledge that originated from the East thousands of years before) and who had made allies throughout the region -- sought to take the Middle East out of its stagnation state to modernize it; he threatened both the Ottoman Sultan's hegemony and the one of the British East-India Company. Britain offered to take care of Ali (in waging a bloody war against him under Henry Churchill) in exchange for a diplomatic post in Jerusalem. Little did the agreeing Sultan knew, he was signing his own death sentence as shortly after, the British-backed Young Turks overthrew him.

That doesn't sound like much of an exchange, nor does it negate the fact the British Israelites liberated Jerusalem in fulfillment of prophecy.

The British-backed Bolsheviks in Russia achieved a similar feat years earlier - in getting rid of another British competitor: the Tsar (who, too, was backed stabbed by the British ruling class (after help Britain win the war)).
TRUTH: The “Russian” Bolshevik Revolution was led by counterfeit Jews, posing as Russians.

Leon Trotsky was born Lev Davidovich Bronstein.

Lev Kamenev was born Lev Borisovich Rosenfeld.

Grigory Yevseyevich Zinoviev was born Hirsch Apfelbaum.

Grigori Yakovlevich Sokolnikov was born Girsh Yankelevich Brilliant.

Vladimir Lenin was born Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov. His mother was half-Jewish.

Joseph Stalin was born Iosif Vissarionovich Jughashvili (variant: Dzhugashvili) in Gori, Georgia. All three of Stalin's wives were Jewish, as was Ana Rubenstein, with whom he had a relationship. Jughashvili literally means “son of a Jew” in Georgian.

Karl Marx, German philosopher and author of the The Communist Manifesto, and the three-volume Das Kapital, was also Jewish.

Lenin read Das Kapital and produced a Russian translation of The Communist Manifesto, written by Jewish author Karl Marx.

Those you call the "real Jews" are very much on board with those you call "counterfeit Jews" to make all this happen. The Balfour Declaration for instance was in reality, the Cecil Declaration. Lord Balfour only acted as the facade for what the Cecil family (who have always been anti-American) had planned centuries before: the creation of Israel.
In reality, the Balfour Declaration was sponsored, designed by and co-authored by a ROTHSCHILD.

It was addressed to “Lord (Walter) Rothschild” and admittedly co-authored by “Lord” Walter Rothschild, which should leave no reasonable doubt as to who was behind it.

And yes, they are absolutely anti-American just as they are anti-British; because they hate the TRUE people Israel: British and Anglo-Saxon Americans (the two sons of Joseph: Ephraim and Manasseh – who were given the name Israel by Jacob/Israel – Gen. 48:16).
 






Sanchuniathon

Rookie
Joined
Feb 2, 2020
Messages
24
Why would anyone believe a counterfeit Jew who is pretending to be someone he can't possibly be? Do you really not understand that all of this so-called evidence is meant to discredit the Bible, which the counterfeit Jews have been trying to do for thousands of years, so they can falsely claim to be “God's Chosen people”.

Have you ever read any of the Talmud please? The organized religion known as Judaism is based upon the Talmud, NOT the Bible.
I agree and share your sentiments about those you call "counterfeit Jew" but you using such argument ad nauseam to contradict facts you don't agree with is irrational. Herzog's findings is based on forensic archeology and it contradicts, yes the Bible, but also the claims the "counterfeit Jews" make to the land.

I read enough of the Talmud to know how vile it is. I agree that organized Judaism is based on it - they agree to it themselves:

”Among the innumerable misfortunes which have befallen… the most fatal in its consequences is the name Judaism… neither in biblical nor post-biblical, neither in Talmudic nor in much later times, is the term Judaism ever heard...”

-- Rabbi Adolph Moses in collaboration with Rabbi H.G. Enlow, “Yahvism and Other Discourses”

”Pharisaism became Talmudism, Talmudism became Medieval Rabbinism, and Medieval Rabbinism became Modern Rabbinism. But throughout these changes in name . . . the spirit of the ancient Pharisees survives, unaltered . . . From Palestine to Babylonia; from Babylonia to North Africa, Italy, Spain, France and Germany; from these to Poland, Russia, and eastern Europe generally, ancient Pharisaism has wandered . . . demonstrates the enduring importance which attaches to Pharisaism as a religious movement.”

--Rabbi Louis Finkelstein, “The Pharisees, The Sociological Background of Their Faith

At least two-thirds of the Bible is prophecy, over 99% of which has already been fulfilled in exact and minute detail. Only a fool would look at that track record, and think that the remaining <1% won't likewise be fulfilled in exact and minute detail, or that the Bible is some work of fiction, when it can and still does accurately predict events that are sometimes thousands of years into the future.

These facts leave no reasonable doubt that the Bible is of extra-terrestrial origin, exactly as Christ said, which is why it can so easily predict future events which mankind is incapable of doing, even with our present level of technology.

IF that is clearly understood, then the Bible would be the LOGICAL starting place for any HONEST and UNBIASED research effort, whether it be in the field of archaeology or elsewhere. That's why Egyptology used the Bible as an anchor point for their chronology. The only difficulty is they made assumptions that have proven to be in error which have led to these false claims that there's no evidence of the Exodus, no evidence of Moses, etc.

Once those errors are corrected, amazingly we have volumes of archaelogical evidence of the Israelites in Egypt, and of their Exodus out of Egypt, along with confirmation of other referenced events in the historical text we refer to as the Bible.
• What has the Bible prophesied?

• How is the Bible of "extra-terrestrial origin"?

• When and where have Christ's words been recorded? Last time I checked, he did not say a word in the Bible. His disciples did.

• You claim "we have volumes of archeological evidence" but none is forensic.

Which is all total nonsense, based upon scientific ASSUMPTIONS (LIES) that are intentionally biased and totally illogical.

How would anyone positively identify the “mummy of Moses”? Can you really not see this is nothing more than a baseless propaganda hit piece against the Bible?

Perhaps the irony escaped you of scientists supposedly finding the mummified remains of someone they're claiming is a “mythical figure” in a “mythical story”? How would they positively identify ANY mummified remains as belonging to Moses? What historical records would they use to confirm their findings?

Can you really not see how stupid and thoughtless such attacks really are? And what their ultimate goal really is?
The "mummy of Moses" is colloquial - in reference to his (alleged) past.

Outside the Bible, we don't have anything (historical and/or archeological) confirming that Moses ever existed. But his story is identical to the one of the historical Akhenaton (for whom we have both historical and archeological evidence).

Because you say so, whilst ignoring all of the evidence that proves you to be in error?
What I say is irrelevant. This is a well known, verified and established fact: Phoenicians = Canaanites. The ancient Greeks knew the (seafaring, merchant) Canaanites as "Phoenicians" - and the name stuck ever since. The Canaanites were however not a single ethnic group and so, if you're not comfortable with the fact that the Phoenicians were Canaanites, it can be said, just as accurately, that the Phoenicians were a Canaanite people. I don't know of any evidence proving such fact to be in error. If you do, please share.

Would you be so kind as to point out where in the Bible it says all of these things please?
"The unification of the tribes of Israel under King David at the end of the eleventh century b.c. and a period of relative peace following the defeat of the Philistines provided the Israelite monarch the opportunity to initiate diplomatic contacts and develop a commercial agreement with Hiram, the ruler of the Phoenician city of Tyre: "King Hiram of Tyre sent envoys to David with cedar logs, carpenters, and stonemasons; and they built a palace for David" (2 Sam. 5:11). Later, when Hiram heard that Solomon, David's son, had succeeded his father as king, he sent envoys to Jerusalem to congratulate the new king and to propose extending their trade alliance. Solomon replied that he wished to build a grand house for "the name of the Lord," a project first proposed by his father. "Please, then, give orders for cedars to be cut for me in the Lebanon. My servants will work with yours, and I will pay you any wages you may ask for your servants; for as you know, there is none among us who knows how to cut timber like the Sidonians (i.e., Phoenicians)" (1 Kings 5:15–20). Further correspondence led to an accord in which Solomon guaranteed to provide, for an unspecified number of years, an annual amount of food for Hiram's household (1 Kings 5:23, 25) in return for the import of cypress and cedar logs and their transport by sea to a designated port. Solomon also employed Phoenician masons and stone cutters (1 Kings 5:31–32) to shape the blocks of stone used to construct the Jerusalem Temple's foundation."


Based on what? More totally unreliable radiocarbon dating?

Based on archeological excavations. Small correction: it's was first inhabited between 8800 BCE and 7000 BCE and continuously inhabited since 5000 BCE.


Do you think the American Indians referred to themselves as Indians before white, European settlers started calling them that? Does that somehow change what the various American Indian tribes did or somehow prove that they weren't really Indians, because the white, European settlers worshiped God or because we didn't find an arrowhead from one of them in some place a scientist hundreds of years later claimed it should be?

Perhaps another scientist used radiocarbon dating to determine the age of the arrowheads they did find to be 5,000 years old, at which point they were coerced into scientifically concluding that the American Indians lived thousands of years before the settlers arrived, and thus all of the recorded stories the settlers had of their dealings with the people we now refer to as the American Indians must be a figment of their imagination. We can therefore label their historical records as a work of fiction and throw them out.

Does the above hypothetical account help you see how irrational your so-called evidence really is?
We know what the Native American tribes called themselves. We also know the Canaanites did not call themselves "Phoenicians". The point here is that the Phoenicians were Canaanites or if you prefer, a Canaanite people.


BECAUSE THEY WERE LOOKING IN THE WRONG TIME AND PLACE FOR THE EVIDENCE.

Once their chronological errors were corrected, amazingly and quite literally tons of evidence in support of the Biblical historical accounts have been found.
To the best of my knowledge, the findings have not been contradicted to date.

Again, based on erroneous assumptions about the chronology, which themselves were based upon circular illogic:-

- Egyptologists use the Bible to date the start of the 22nd Dynasty to 945 BC

- They then date Ramesses II based on that 22nd Dynasty Date

- They then find no evidence for the Exodus and Conquest in the time of Ramesses

- They therefore reject the Bible as a work of 'pious fiction'

- So the Bible is used to establish Egyptian chronology which is then used to dismiss the Bible

- This is a prime example of a circular argument!
I disagree that it's circular argument.

All of which is still based on erroneous assumptions about the chronology and circular illogic, to unsurprisingly arrive at totally irrational conclusions.
In absence of evidence, I can only say that I respect your opinionated interpretation.

The first five books of the Bible (namely Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy), aka the Pentateuch, the books of Moses, and the Torah contain not only the historical record of the Exodus, but also our Creator's Perfect Law of Liberty (The Law).

The Law provides us not only the Commandments, which are the basic, universal principles of The Law, but also with the perfect system of governance (with no politicians, PACs or lobbyists), the perfect system of justice (with no attorneys/lawyers/barristers and no black-robed judges), theperfect agricultural policy (with no toxic chemicals or GMOs), theperfect economic policy (with no banksters, usury, poverty or the associated crime) and theperfect healthy diet.

Anyone who takes an honest, reasonable look at the world today should realize that things are NOT going well. Governments rule over “free” people. Our legal system is in absolute shambles, with injustice being meted out every day in every single courtroom around the world, all of which practice some form of Roman “law”.

We are intentionally manipulating the genetic code of our crops, with no real understanding of how that genetic code (the programming language of life) works or why it was designed the way that it was, while at the same time poisoning those same crops, the soil and the rivers and streams and oceans with a slurry of toxic chemicals that will eventually destroy everything. And not only do we consume all of these toxins and genetically-modified organisms, but we also consume all of the unclean animals which were designed to be the planetary waste management system, to help deal with all of these toxins.

We also allow a very small group of extremely evil people to dictate monetary policy to the entire world, because we are either too lazy or too stupid to know that it is an obvious ponzi scheme which will eventually transfer all of the world's wealth into their hands via a mechanism which is prohibited in The Law: USURY. And then we wonder why the richest 1% of this world own and/or control over 90% of the world's resources, whilst the rest of us live off of the crumbs from their table, and then wonder what we can do about all of the poverty and the crime poverty causes.

If someone was motivated to actually take the time to educate themselves by reading and studying these extremely relevant details found in The Law, i.e. the first five books of the Bible which contain the historical record of the Exodus, they might begin to understand the foundational WISDOM and UNDERSTANDING behind its design. A reasonable human+Being might even begin to wonder why these amazing principles – which would solve ALL of the world's problems – are being ignored by the people who are presently running this planet into the ground, for their master: Lucifer/Satan/Iblis.

Of course the above is in addition to the prophecies contained within those first five books, some of which is still unfolding today in great detail, as well as the encoded information which likewise has been the source of much debate.

So if you wish to pretend that a bunch of clueless scientists, who employ circular ILLOGIC and flawed dating techniques that are known to be wildly inaccurate and totally unreliable, have somehow finally succeeded in proving the Bible wrong, then you are choosing of your own free-will to believe in fantasies instead of the truth. As long as you go down that path, you will continue to see everything upside down and backwards, as you undoubtedly are.

1 Timothy 5:20-21
5:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane [and] vain babblings, and OPPOSITIONS OF SCIENCE (knowledge) FALSELY SO CALLED:
5:21 Which some professing [to have] have erred concerning the faith. Grace [be] with thee. Amen.
I disagree that those books are historical. I have already expressed my disagreement and backed it up and so I won't dwell further. Otherwise, I agree that what we call the Mosaic Law is an ideal type of governance and living. If I am not mistaken, it is that Law that the Pharisees corrupted.

TRUTH: The ancient language in Canaan was Hebrew (a.k.a. Phoenician) used by the ISRAELITES.
It's not the "truth" but your personal interpretation.

The truth is the following:

“The Hebrew language itself was a Canaanite dialect.”

- Introduction to the Bible, Dr. Christine Hayes, Yale University Press

"Hebrew belongs to the Canaanite language group within the Semitic family of languages and is very similar to its neighbors: Phoenician, Moabite, and the language which flourishes in the Tel-el-Amarna letters, which were written in the fourteenth and thirteentcenturies B.C.E. from Israel, Syria and Phoenicia to the king of Egypt."

"In his book History of the Hebrew Language (in Hebrew) Haim Rabin writes that "the Patriarchs, we know, came from Mesopotamia, where they did not speak a language of the Hebrew type; how then is it that we find the people of Israel, after they had taken possession of the Promised Land, beginning to write and to make use of a language which was already spoken by the Canaanites whom they dispossessed? The only possible answer is that at some stage our predecessors changed their language."

- https://www.biu.ac.il/JH/Parasha/eng/vayigash/sarfati.html

Thank-you. Nice find. It's really no wonder that these are almost identical.

The Celts are Israelites Under Another Name
____
The link you posted concludes the following: "Therefore the Celts, according to God, are Israelites."

I know this is rhetorical with you but is "According to God" a serious argument?

It's not just the AshkeNAZIS/Khazars. They were the third recorded mass-conversion to Talmudic Judaism. There were two other mass conversions: the first in Babylon, where the Talmud was first written, and the second under John Hyrcanus c. 100 BC, where the Idumean Edomites in and around Jerusalem were forced to convert. These are the same Idumean Edomites who eventually formed the ruling body of Talmudic Judaism known as the Sanhedrin.
Agreed but all Jews (real or fake) are converts. Judaism (pre or post Pharisaism), like all religions, is man-made.

Perhaps to someone who is seeing everything upside down and backwards, but not to any reasonably-minded human+Being who is willing to look at all of the evidence with an open-mind.
I don't see it upside down and/or backwards, I really on facts and there is no evidence. The Anglo-Saxon-Celtic-Americans descending from the "Lost Tribes" is based on the cult of British ISraelism - a white supremacist fallacy akin to the Anglo-Saxon ruling class erasing the Egyptian and Phoenician influence in the formation of the Western World (Ancient Greece and Rome) to replace it with a Northern Germanic influence.

"Bernal suggests an explanation of ancient Greek development in terms of what he calls "the ancient model." Classical, Hellenistic, and later, pagan Greeks from the fifth century B.C. to the fifth century A.D. believed their ancestors had been civilized by Egyptian and Phoenician colonization and the later influence of Greek study in Egypt. Up to the eighteenth century A.D., Egypt was seen as the fount of all "Gentile" philosophy and learning, including that of the Greeks, and it was believed that the Greeks had managed to preserve only a part of this wisdom. Bernal suggests that the sense of loss that this created, and the quest to recover the lost wisdom, were major motives in the development of science in the seventeenth century.

Bernal argues that the ancient model was accepted by historians from antiquity till the nineteenth century, and was rejected then only for anti-Semitic and racist reasons. He sees the Egyptian and Phoenician influence on ancient Greeks as beginning in the first half of the second millennium B.C. He concludes that Greek civilization is the result of the cultural mixtures created by these colonizations and later borrowings from across the eastern Mediterranean. These borrowings from Egypt and the Levant occurred in the second millennium B.C. or in the thousand years from 2100 to 1100 B.C., which Bernal suggests is the period during which Greek culture was formed! "The Ancient Greeks, though proud of themselves and their recent accomplishments, did not see their political institutions, science, philosophy or religion as original."

The Aryan model, an alternative theory about the development of the ancient Greeks, first appeared in the first half of the nineteenth century. It denied any influence of Egyptian settlements and expressed doubt about a role for the Phoenicians. An extreme version of this model was propounded during the height of anti-Semitism in Europe in the 1890s, and then in the 1920s and 1930s; this particular explanation denied even the Phoenician cultural influence." According to the Aryan model, there had been an invasion from the north, an invasion not described by ancient writers, which had overcome the existing pre-Hellenic culture. Greek civilization was seen as the result of the mixture of the Indo-European speaking Hellenes and the older peoples over whom they ruled.


Because it wasn't yet the time of the revealing (Dan. 12:1-4, Rev. 5:1-5, Rev. 10:7-10, Mal. 4, Matt. 24:27).

Romans 11:24-25
11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree*: how much more shall these, which be the natural [branches], be grafted into their own olive tree?
11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness (as to their true identity) is happened to part of Israel (the ten "lost" tribes - the House of Israel), until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in (Dan. 12:7).

*the olive tree represents the 10-tribed “House of Israel” (Jer. 11:16, Zech. 4:3, 11-14 – see also Gen. 48:16) whereas the 2-tribed “House of Judah” is represented by the fig-tree (Jer. 24:5, Matt. 21:19, Matt. 27:25).

Daniel 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which [was] upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by Him that liveth for ever that [it shall be] for a Time (360), Times (2 = 720), and an half (180) (1260 years in total - 9/Dec./1917 when Jerusalem was liberated from the "Treading Down of Jerusalem by the Gentiles" by the British under Gen. Allenby); and when He shall have accomplished to scatter the power of The Holy People (Israel - Gen. 48:11; 16)(Rev. 11:3; 7), all these [things] shall be finished.
Possible but I find it odd that it happened when the Venetian Oligarchy (masters at corrupting the minds) moved north.

Thank-you, but the Rothschild banking cartel taking over the Bank of England is actually further proof of the age-old plot by these imposters to seize control of the finances and government of England, to eventually try to replace them in people's minds as “Israel”. And that's exactly what they've managed to do, through their Rothschild sponsored and co-authored Balfour declaration.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration

It would be much more reasonable to see what the Rothschilds and their agents have done as a coup.
Venice's central bank was the blueprint for the banks of Amsterdam, England and all the central banks that followed. I find it odd that Rothschild could have taken over the Bank of England by themselves. Aside from popular legend, there is no evidence for it. That is not to say that it's not true.

You're leaving out who was actually running the “Venetian angle”, which is the most important part: the Jesuits.

And who are the Jesuits? They are crypto-counterfeit Jews, pretending to be Roman Catholics, who own and control the Vatican finances as well as the “intelligence” gathering networks (spies) all over the world. Sound familiar?

The Church of England was formed to break free of Rome, only to have the Jesuits infiltrate it and run it from within.
I am aware of the Jesuit Order - who like Lutheranism and Protestantism and their many branches - was created by the Venetian Oligarchy. Their objective was to weaken the Church and the unity of Christianity.

My interpretation is however different than yours: you see it solely as "counterfeit Jews", I see it as Kabbalists (who include both real and fake Jews (according to your view) as well as non-Jews).

The creation/consolidation of the Church of England was another Venetian machination. Spain had established an alliance (through a marriage between Catherine to Henry VIII) with Britain to guarantee safe passage in the English water channels to the Netherlands. The Venetians having infiltrated the English King’s court (Venetian Francesco Zorzi was his sex counselor), managed to make King Henry VIII divorce Catherine, broke England from Rome Catholicism and have Henry VIII marry a woman from the Howard family (who was on Venice’s side).

Then your knowledge is sorely lacking, because that's exactly what their goal is, as evidenced by both their own writings and their actions. The Jesuits have infiltrated and run every so-called Protestant denomination of Christianity from within, which should explain why the Protestant churches are now in such a state of moral decline and depravity that they are helping to usher in all of this gender-fluidity nonsense, straight out of the Talmud and the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion.

In the U.S. their Chabad Lubavich front group has been successful in getting their “Noahide Laws” on the books (Public Law 102-14), which are designed to exterminate “Christians” at the appointed time. That's why they've promoted their fake, revisionist history about the holocaust, and the poor persecuted “Jews”, complete with their self-fabricated cry of “anti-semitism” any time the truth of their evil nature and plans are exposed.

The Noahide Conspiracy

Adolf Hitler, who was the illegitimate grandson of a Rothschild, was blessed by the pope and called “the envoy of God”. The counterfeit Jews have no problem sacrificing a few of their own for “the cause”.
As I wrote above, the Jesuit Order, Lutheranism and Protestantism were created by the Venetian Oligarchy to weaken the Church and the unity of Christianity. It is possible that the Venetian Oligarchy is what you call "counterfeit Jews". I see them as Kabbalists since they have nothing to do with Judaism (real or fake) or Jews (real or fake).

The Protocols of the Elders of Zion was a Masonic creation aimed at thwarting the unification of Germany under Bismarck. Bismarck had managed to unify his country where Jews were assimilating with non-Jews. Bismarck was also consulting with the Rothschild to make of Germany the banking center of Europe. The Protocols document derailed everything and launched anti-Jewish sentiments in Germany. If the Rothschild were who we're told they are (in terms of power), they would have easily made of Germany the center of banking. Instead, and after the two world wars, the City of London became it.

Another myth. The “treasure” they would have discovered there are the two most important artifacts on the planet: The Ark of The Covenant and the Stone of Destiny, aka the Lia Fail in Gaelic and Jacob's Pillar Stone. The Stone is the very same stone that Jacob laid his head on in the wilderness near Bethel, and which the Israelites carried around through the wilderness of sin for 40 years during the Exodus from Egypt.

That's why the REAL Stone of Destiny has an obvious wear-mark in the top of it, because it was carried via a pole which was inserted through the rings on either end of it, which bowed under the extreme weight of the stone (458 lbs).

The Ark of The Covenant is currently buried underneath the Mound of the Hostages (2 Chron. 25:24) on the Hill of Tara/Torah, in Co. Meath, IRELAND.

The Stone of Destiny, is still hidden somewhere in Scotland, where it was taken by the 4 Scottish nationalists led by Ian Hamilton, who removed it in the wee morning hours of Christmas day in 1950 from Westminster Abbey, where it had been since Edward the 1st brought it from Scotland after defeating the Scots.
It's possible that it's a myth but I don't understand why the Church hunted and killed the Knights Templar. It is also known that some of the Knights Templar escaped to Scotland where they remained underground.

As above please. The treasures were the two “hostages”, i.e. the Ark of The Covenant and the Stone of Destiny, which have absolutely nothing to do with “kabbalah”, nor the counterfeit Jews, nor the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry (which is another counterfeit Jewish/Jesuit invention), although they would absolutely like to get their hands on those artifacts, so they can destroy them. That way they could continue to perpetuate their LIE that the Bible is a myth.
The Kabbalah has its origin in India and was further developed in the Middle East by different civilizations and later the Jews of Europe. The Scottish Rite of Freemasonry derives from the Kabbalah. Neither the Kabbalah nor the Scotish Rite of Freemasonry (nor the Jesuit Order as I mentioned before) are of Jewish origin.

I've noted the points you made on the treasures and will look further into it. Thank you.

WW1 didn't liberate anything. It was an army that LIBERATED Palestine and Jerusalem from the “treading down of the Gentiles” (the Turkish Edomite Ottoman Empire) in fulfillment of prophecy (Dan. 12:7). And which army was that? THE BRITISH.
The two world wars were waged for hegemonic purposes by the Anglo-Saxon-American bankers. There is enough archives-based evidence on this today. I would write a list of books but I doubt that anything outside the Bible interests you.

It should be noted well that most of the inhabitants of what is now the counterfeit Jewish state of Israel immigrated there from areas within the former Russian Empire of their own free will, beginning shortly after the British liberated it. That's why the area between 1917 and 1948 was referred to as “British Palestine”.
Technically speaking, it was called the "British Mandate of Palestine". Britain had the mandate, not the ownership of Palestine.

The Jews of the former Russian Empire migrated to Palestine in small quantities in the late 1800s and in large quantities following terrorism waged upon them by prominent Jewish families (the Dwecks of Aleppo, the Recanati of Solenic and the Luzzato of Venice).

The same went for the Jews of Germany and other surrounding countries - virtually all refused to migrate to Palestine and rejected Modern Zionism as Godless. They only embraced it after the rise of Nazism and WW2. When one investigate

That doesn't sound like much of an exchange, nor does it negate the fact the British Israelites liberated Jerusalem in fulfillment of prophecy.
What you call "liberation" was/is part of an Anglo-Saxon plan to rule the world. See Caroll Quigley's "The Anglo-American Establishment".

"One wintry afternoon in 1891, three men were engaged in earnest conversation in London. From that conversation were to flow consequences of the greatest importance to the British Empire and to the world as a whole. For these men were organizing a secret society that was, for more than 50 years, to be one of the most important forces in the formulation and execution of British imperial and foreign policy.

The three men thus engaged were already well known in England. The leader was Cecil Rhodes, fabulously wealthy empire builder and the most important person in South Africa. The second was William T. Stead, the most famous, and probably also the most sensational, journalist of the day. The third was Reginald Baliol Brett, later known as Lord Esher, friend and confidant of Queen Victoria, and later to be the most influential adviser of King Edward VII and King George V."



TRUTH: The “Russian” Bolshevik Revolution was led by counterfeit Jews, posing as Russians.

Leon Trotsky was born Lev Davidovich Bronstein.

Lev Kamenev was born Lev Borisovich Rosenfeld.

Grigory Yevseyevich Zinoviev was born Hirsch Apfelbaum.

Grigori Yakovlevich Sokolnikov was born Girsh Yankelevich Brilliant.

Vladimir Lenin was born Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov. His mother was half-Jewish.

Joseph Stalin was born Iosif Vissarionovich Jughashvili (variant: Dzhugashvili) in Gori, Georgia. All three of Stalin's wives were Jewish, as was Ana Rubenstein, with whom he had a relationship. Jughashvili literally means “son of a Jew” in Georgian.

Karl Marx, German philosopher and author of the The Communist Manifesto, and the three-volume Das Kapital, was also Jewish.

Lenin read Das Kapital and produced a Russian translation of The Communist Manifesto, written by Jewish author Karl Marx.
Agreed on the points you presented. The Bolsheviks were nonetheless backed by the British ruling class to get rid of the Tsar and put their hands on Russia. See Anthony Sutton's "Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution".

Marx, who had infiltrated French labor circles, wrote his essays in the comfort and luxury of London. Marx's handler was David Urquhart and his protector was Lord Palmerston. Communism was a British Imperial aimed at destroying competitors in keeping them backwards economically.

In reality, the Balfour Declaration was sponsored, designed by and co-authored by a ROTHSCHILD.

It was addressed to “Lord (Walter) Rothschild” and admittedly co-authored by “Lord” Walter Rothschild, which should leave no reasonable doubt as to who was behind it.

And yes, they are absolutely anti-American just as they are anti-British; because they hate the TRUE people Israel: British and Anglo-Saxon Americans (the two sons of Joseph: Ephraim and Manasseh – who were given the name Israel by Jacob/Israel – Gen. 48:16).
There is no doubt that the Rothschild played an instrumental role in the creation of present-day Israel but the Balfour Declaration was with the secretive Sykes-Picot agreement part of a long plan to rule the Middle East. Both the likes of the Rothschild and the Anglo-Saxon ruling class were on board.
 






Last edited:

A Freeman

Star
Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
1,470
I agree and share your sentiments about those you call "counterfeit Jew" but you using such argument ad nauseam to contradict facts you don't agree with is irrational. Herzog's findings is based on forensic archeology and it contradicts, yes the Bible, but also the claims the "counterfeit Jews" make to the land.

I read enough of the Talmud to know how vile it is. I agree that organized Judaism is based on it - they agree to it themselves:

”Among the innumerable misfortunes which have befallen… the most fatal in its consequences is the name Judaism… neither in biblical nor post-biblical, neither in Talmudic nor in much later times, is the term Judaism ever heard...”

-- Rabbi Adolph Moses in collaboration with Rabbi H.G. Enlow, “Yahvism and Other Discourses”

”Pharisaism became Talmudism, Talmudism became Medieval Rabbinism, and Medieval Rabbinism became Modern Rabbinism. But throughout these changes in name . . . the spirit of the ancient Pharisees survives, unaltered . . . From Palestine to Babylonia; from Babylonia to North Africa, Italy, Spain, France and Germany; from these to Poland, Russia, and eastern Europe generally, ancient Pharisaism has wandered . . . demonstrates the enduring importance which attaches to Pharisaism as a religious movement.”

--Rabbi Louis Finkelstein, “The Pharisees, The Sociological Background of Their Faith



• What has the Bible prophesied?

• How is the Bible of "extra-terrestrial origin"?

• When and where have Christ's words been recorded? Last time I checked, he did not say a word in the Bible. His disciples did.

• You claim "we have volumes of archeological evidence" but none is forensic.



The "mummy of Moses" is colloquial - in reference to his (alleged) past.

Outside the Bible, we don't have anything (historical and/or archeological) confirming that Moses ever existed. But his story is identical to the one of the historical Akhenaton (for whom we have both historical and archeological evidence).



What I say is irrelevant. This is a well known, verified and established fact: Phoenicians = Canaanites. The ancient Greeks knew the (seafaring, merchant) Canaanites as "Phoenicians" - and the name stuck ever since. The Canaanites were however not a single ethnic group and so, if you're not comfortable with the fact that the Phoenicians were Canaanites, it can be said, just as accurately, that the Phoenicians were a Canaanite people. I don't know of any evidence proving such fact to be in error. If you do, please share.



"The unification of the tribes of Israel under King David at the end of the eleventh century b.c. and a period of relative peace following the defeat of the Philistines provided the Israelite monarch the opportunity to initiate diplomatic contacts and develop a commercial agreement with Hiram, the ruler of the Phoenician city of Tyre: "King Hiram of Tyre sent envoys to David with cedar logs, carpenters, and stonemasons; and they built a palace for David" (2 Sam. 5:11). Later, when Hiram heard that Solomon, David's son, had succeeded his father as king, he sent envoys to Jerusalem to congratulate the new king and to propose extending their trade alliance. Solomon replied that he wished to build a grand house for "the name of the Lord," a project first proposed by his father. "Please, then, give orders for cedars to be cut for me in the Lebanon. My servants will work with yours, and I will pay you any wages you may ask for your servants; for as you know, there is none among us who knows how to cut timber like the Sidonians (i.e., Phoenicians)" (1 Kings 5:15–20). Further correspondence led to an accord in which Solomon guaranteed to provide, for an unspecified number of years, an annual amount of food for Hiram's household (1 Kings 5:23, 25) in return for the import of cypress and cedar logs and their transport by sea to a designated port. Solomon also employed Phoenician masons and stone cutters (1 Kings 5:31–32) to shape the blocks of stone used to construct the Jerusalem Temple's foundation."




Based on archeological excavations. Small correction: it's was first inhabited between 8800 BCE and 7000 BCE and continuously inhabited since 5000 BCE.




We know what the Native American tribes called themselves. We also know the Canaanites did not call themselves "Phoenicians". The point here is that the Phoenicians were Canaanites or if you prefer, a Canaanite people.




To the best of my knowledge, the findings have not been contradicted to date.



I disagree that it's circular argument.



In absence of evidence, I can only say that I respect your opinionated interpretation.



I disagree that those books are historical. I have already expressed my disagreement and backed it up and so I won't dwell further. Otherwise, I agree that what we call the Mosaic Law is an ideal type of governance and living. If I am not mistaken, it is that Law that the Pharisees corrupted.



It's not the "truth" but your personal interpretation.

The truth is the following:

“The Hebrew language itself was a Canaanite dialect.”

- Introduction to the Bible, Dr. Christine Hayes, Yale University Press

"Hebrew belongs to the Canaanite language group within the Semitic family of languages and is very similar to its neighbors: Phoenician, Moabite, and the language which flourishes in the Tel-el-Amarna letters, which were written in the fourteenth and thirteentcenturies B.C.E. from Israel, Syria and Phoenicia to the king of Egypt."

"In his book History of the Hebrew Language (in Hebrew) Haim Rabin writes that "the Patriarchs, we know, came from Mesopotamia, where they did not speak a language of the Hebrew type; how then is it that we find the people of Israel, after they had taken possession of the Promised Land, beginning to write and to make use of a language which was already spoken by the Canaanites whom they dispossessed? The only possible answer is that at some stage our predecessors changed their language."

- https://www.biu.ac.il/JH/Parasha/eng/vayigash/sarfati.html



The link you posted concludes the following: "Therefore the Celts, according to God, are Israelites."

I know this is rhetorical with you but is "According to God" a serious argument?



Agreed but all Jews (real or fake) are converts. Judaism (pre or post Pharisaism), like all religions, is man-made.



I don't see it upside down and/or backwards, I really on facts and there is no evidence. The Anglo-Saxon-Celtic-Americans descending from the "Lost Tribes" is based on the cult of British ISraelism - a white supremacist fallacy akin to the Anglo-Saxon ruling class erasing the Egyptian and Phoenician influence in the formation of the Western World (Ancient Greece and Rome) to replace it with a Northern Germanic influence.

"Bernal suggests an explanation of ancient Greek development in terms of what he calls "the ancient model." Classical, Hellenistic, and later, pagan Greeks from the fifth century B.C. to the fifth century A.D. believed their ancestors had been civilized by Egyptian and Phoenician colonization and the later influence of Greek study in Egypt. Up to the eighteenth century A.D., Egypt was seen as the fount of all "Gentile" philosophy and learning, including that of the Greeks, and it was believed that the Greeks had managed to preserve only a part of this wisdom. Bernal suggests that the sense of loss that this created, and the quest to recover the lost wisdom, were major motives in the development of science in the seventeenth century.

Bernal argues that the ancient model was accepted by historians from antiquity till the nineteenth century, and was rejected then only for anti-Semitic and racist reasons. He sees the Egyptian and Phoenician influence on ancient Greeks as beginning in the first half of the second millennium B.C. He concludes that Greek civilization is the result of the cultural mixtures created by these colonizations and later borrowings from across the eastern Mediterranean. These borrowings from Egypt and the Levant occurred in the second millennium B.C. or in the thousand years from 2100 to 1100 B.C., which Bernal suggests is the period during which Greek culture was formed! "The Ancient Greeks, though proud of themselves and their recent accomplishments, did not see their political institutions, science, philosophy or religion as original."

The Aryan model, an alternative theory about the development of the ancient Greeks, first appeared in the first half of the nineteenth century. It denied any influence of Egyptian settlements and expressed doubt about a role for the Phoenicians. An extreme version of this model was propounded during the height of anti-Semitism in Europe in the 1890s, and then in the 1920s and 1930s; this particular explanation denied even the Phoenician cultural influence." According to the Aryan model, there had been an invasion from the north, an invasion not described by ancient writers, which had overcome the existing pre-Hellenic culture. Greek civilization was seen as the result of the mixture of the Indo-European speaking Hellenes and the older peoples over whom they ruled.




Possible but I find it odd that it happened when the Venetian Oligarchy (masters at corrupting the minds) moved north.



Venice's central bank was the blueprint for the banks of Amsterdam, England and all the central banks that followed. I find it odd that Rothschild could have taken over the Bank of England by themselves. Aside from popular legend, there is no evidence for it. That is not to say that it's not true.



I am aware of the Jesuit Order - who like Lutheranism and Protestantism and their many branches - was created by the Venetian Oligarchy. Their objective was to weaken the Church and the unity of Christianity.

My interpretation is however different than yours: you see it solely as "counterfeit Jews", I see it as Kabbalists (who include both real and fake Jews (according to your view) as well as non-Jews).

The creation/consolidation of the Church of England was another Venetian machination. Spain had established an alliance (through a marriage between Catherine to Henry VIII) with Britain to guarantee safe passage in the English water channels to the Netherlands. The Venetians having infiltrated the English King’s court (Venetian Francesco Zorzi was his sex counselor), managed to make King Henry VIII divorce Catherine, broke England from Rome Catholicism and have Henry VIII marry a woman from the Howard family (who was on Venice’s side).



As I wrote above, the Jesuit Order, Lutheranism and Protestantism were created by the Venetian Oligarchy to weaken the Church and the unity of Christianity. It is possible that the Venetian Oligarchy is what you call "counterfeit Jews". I see them as Kabbalists since they have nothing to do with Judaism (real or fake) or Jews (real or fake).

The Protocols of the Elders of Zion was a Masonic creation aimed at thwarting the unification of Germany under Bismarck. Bismarck had managed to unify his country where Jews were assimilating with non-Jews. Bismarck was also consulting with the Rothschild to make of Germany the banking center of Europe. The Protocols document derailed everything and launched anti-Jewish sentiments in Germany. If the Rothschild were who we're told they are (in terms of power), they would have easily made of Germany the center of banking. Instead, and after the two world wars, the City of London became it.



It's possible that it's a myth but I don't understand why the Church hunted and killed the Knights Templar. It is also known that some of the Knights Templar escaped to Scotland where they remained underground.



The Kabbalah has its origin in India and was further developed in the Middle East by different civilizations and later the Jews of Europe. The Scottish Rite of Freemasonry derives from the Kabbalah. Neither the Kabbalah nor the Scotish Rite of Freemasonry (nor the Jesuit Order as I mentioned before) are of Jewish origin.

I've noted the points you made on the treasures and will look further into it. Thank you.



The two world wars were waged for hegemonic purposes by the Anglo-Saxon-American bankers. There is enough archives-based evidence on this today. I would write a list of books but I doubt that anything outside the Bible interests you.



Technically speaking, it was called the "British Mandate of Palestine". Britain had the mandate, not the ownership of Palestine.

The Jews of the former Russian Empire migrated to Palestine in small quantities in the late 1800s and in large quantities following terrorism waged upon them by prominent Jewish families (the Dwecks of Aleppo, the Recanati of Solenic and the Luzzato of Venice).

The same went for the Jews of Germany and other surrounding countries - virtually all refused to migrate to Palestine and rejected Modern Zionism as Godless. They only embraced it after the rise of Nazism and WW2. When one investigate



What you call "liberation" was/is part of an Anglo-Saxon plan to rule the world. See Caroll Quigley's "The Anglo-American Establishment".

"One wintry afternoon in 1891, three men were engaged in earnest conversation in London. From that conversation were to flow consequences of the greatest importance to the British Empire and to the world as a whole. For these men were organizing a secret society that was, for more than 50 years, to be one of the most important forces in the formulation and execution of British imperial and foreign policy.

The three men thus engaged were already well known in England. The leader was Cecil Rhodes, fabulously wealthy empire builder and the most important person in South Africa. The second was William T. Stead, the most famous, and probably also the most sensational, journalist of the day. The third was Reginald Baliol Brett, later known as Lord Esher, friend and confidant of Queen Victoria, and later to be the most influential adviser of King Edward VII and King George V."





Agreed on the points you presented. The Bolsheviks were nonetheless backed by the British ruling class to get rid of the Tsar and put their hands on Russia. See Anthony Sutton's "Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution".

Marx, who had infiltrated French labor circles, wrote his essays in the comfort and luxury of London. Marx's handler was David Urquhart and his protector was Lord Palmerston. Communism was a British Imperial aimed at destroying competitors in keeping them backwards economically.



There is no doubt that the Rothschild played an instrumental role in the creation of present-day Israel but the Balfour Declaration was with the secretive Sykes-Picot agreement part of a long plan to rule the Middle East. Both the likes of the Rothschild and the Anglo-Saxon ruling class were on board.
You keep trying to argue that your opinion is somehow evidence whilst ignoring all of the evidence that proves you to be in error, pretending that real evidence is somehow opinion. In other words, you continue to argue that up is down and black is white. Perhaps you don't even realize what you're doing.

Please take the time to actually review the information that's been provided within this thread, including the linked information. You might learn something. You apparently don't even understand what a circular argument is, or what the term "historicity" means or you wouldn't continue to make such foolish statements, trying to discredit the Bible, whilst claiming to know all about the very people who programmed you to believe in such nonsense with their propaganda.

• What has the Bible prophesied?
There are over 300 prophecies alone concerning Jesus. A couple of short videos below should help illustrate the statistical probability of just one man fulfilling all of those prophecies.

Jesus historically fulfilled over 300 prophesies – statistical odds

Sevens in the lineage of Jesus

This is really just the tip of the iceberg, so to speak. If you are looking for something more recent, that's yet to be fulfilled, there's another thread within this forum detailing not only how the next phase of WW3 will happen, but that the U.S. and U.K. will lose WW3 to Russia and China.

The rise and fall of the Babylonian, Medo-Persian, Greek and Roman empires were all prophesied. WW1 and WW2 were both prophesied. Chernobyl was prophesied. As was the invasion of Kuwait.

Here are a couple dozen prophecies that deal directly with the Second Coming of Christ:-
https://hannahmichaels.wordpress.com/2016/07/15/the-scriptural-marks-of-christ/

There are literally thousands and thousands of Biblical prophecies that have been fulfilled in exact and minute detail, leaving NO DOUBT that the Bible is clearly NOT OF THIS WORLD, as the technology to produce detailed information of this nature does not exist on this planet.

• How is the Bible of "extra-terrestrial origin"?
As above please. Do you know of any technology on Earth that can accurately predict the rise and fall of empires, global wars, etc. hundreds or even thousands of years in advance?

King of kings' Bible - John 8:14 (8:23 KJV) And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I AM NOT FROM THIS WORLD.

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify Thou me with Thine Own self with the glory which I had with Thee BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is NOT OF THIS WORLD: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

• When and where have Christ's words been recorded? Last time I checked, he did not say a word in the Bible. His disciples did.
Are you claiming you don't understand the difference between a biography and an autobiography please? You do understand how quotations work, correct?

ALL of the Gospel accounts of Christ, while He was here in the body of Jesus, record HIS WORDS. In the above quoted verses, HIS WORDS are recorded in BLUE.

• You claim "we have volumes of archeological evidence" but none is forensic.
You must be joking. That's assumption is almost as ridiculous as claiming that Christ's words aren't recorded. There isn't a single human+Being in all of human history that has the level of documentation that Christ had when He was here in the body of Jesus. We literally changed the way we kept time based on His visit.

And as far as the flood, Exodus and the kings of Israel and the kings of Judah, there's plenty of real archaeological evidence IF someone applies reason and common-sense to their choices of where to look.

A 458 lb stone made of purplish porphyry stone from the Bethel area in Israel, with a wear mark in the top of it made from carrying it through the wilderness for 40 years, winding up underneath the chair built by Edward the 1st ("Longshanks" in the movie "Braveheart") in England should be all the archaelogical evidence any REASONABLY minded human+Being would need to recognize this subject merits further investigation.

1581854078032.png

And yes, samples of that Stone in England at the time have undergone a forensic examination under microscope, and its grain structure has been matched to samples from the Bethel area in Israel.
 






Sanchuniathon

Rookie
Joined
Feb 2, 2020
Messages
24
You keep trying to argue that your opinion is somehow evidence whilst ignoring all of the evidence that proves you to be in error, pretending that real evidence is somehow opinion. In other words, you continue to argue that up is down and black is white. Perhaps you don't even realize what you're doing.

Please take the time to actually review the information that's been provided within this thread, including the linked information. You might learn something. You apparently don't even understand what a circular argument is, or what the term "historicity" means or you wouldn't continue to make such foolish statements, trying to discredit the Bible, whilst claiming to know all about the very people who programmed you to believe in such nonsense with their propaganda.
I understand circular argument and historicity. My point was always that there is a difference between real history and historical context. To contrast: King Kong Climbed the Empire State Building but it does not mean he existed. NYC and the building did/do however exist. All the stories of the Biblical Patriarchs are similar: based on historical people and context. Moses is based on the historical Akhenaten, the enslaved "Hebrews"in Egypt is based loosely on the historical Hyksos, etc.

I don't know where you read me use opinion as evidence. I have presented you with the result of forensic archeological excavations, with historical events (for instance that King Henry VIII was manipulated by Venice to divorce his wife which led to the creation of the Church of England), etc -- but you have continuously rejected those verifiable facts with the "counterfeit Jew" argument (when it's not "Satanic propaganda").

I could also tell you that the discoveries of the 2000+ cuneiform tablets at Ras Shamra (ancient Ugarit) in present-day Syria attest that the stories of Yahweh in the Bible are identical to El, the most High God of the Canaanite (polytheistic) pantheon -- but I am sure that you will credit it on "counterfeit Jews".

https://phoenicia.org/ugarbibl.html

(The content of the previous link was originally found at the Lutheran School of Theology in Chicago (Dr. Klein) but the link, for some reason, does not work at the moment: http://prophetess.lstc.edu/~rklein/Doc6/ugarit.htm)

There are over 300 prophecies alone concerning Jesus. A couple of short videos below should help illustrate the statistical probability of just one man fulfilling all of those prophecies.

Jesus historically fulfilled over 300 prophesies – statistical odds

Sevens in the lineage of Jesus

This is really just the tip of the iceberg, so to speak. If you are looking for something more recent, that's yet to be fulfilled, there's another thread within this forum detailing not only how the next phase of WW3 will happen, but that the U.S. and U.K. will lose WW3 to Russia and China.

The rise and fall of the Babylonian, Medo-Persian, Greek and Roman empires were all prophesied. WW1 and WW2 were both prophesied. Chernobyl was prophesied. As was the invasion of Kuwait.

Here are a couple dozen prophecies that deal directly with the Second Coming of Christ:-
https://hannahmichaels.wordpress.com/2016/07/15/the-scriptural-marks-of-christ/

There are literally thousands and thousands of Biblical prophecies that have been fulfilled in exact and minute detail, leaving NO DOUBT that the Bible is clearly NOT OF THIS WORLD, as the technology to produce detailed information of this nature does not exist on this planet.
We can agree to disagree. You see it as prophecy, I see it as interpretations based on Biblical distortions/manipulations. For instance, it was John Neslon Darby, the degenerate behind the lunacy of Rapture and the End of Times, who decided that Russia was the Gog of the Bible.

We don't even know when was the Bible really written but we know it was done over the course of few/several centuries. Writing stories after they happen is a great way to make them look "prophetic".

As above please. Do you know of any technology on Earth that can accurately predict the rise and fall of empires, global wars, etc. hundreds or even thousands of years in advance?
The Bible is pseudepigrapha, not prophecy.

King of kings' Bible - John 8:14 (8:23 KJV) And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I AM NOT FROM THIS WORLD.

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify Thou me with Thine Own self with the glory which I had with Thee BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is NOT OF THIS WORLD: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Are you claiming you don't understand the difference between a biography and an autobiography please? You do understand how quotations work, correct?

ALL of the Gospel accounts of Christ, while He was here in the body of Jesus, record HIS WORDS. In the above quoted verses, HIS WORDS are recorded in BLUE.
I understand the difference. I stand corrected on this - Jesus Christ did speak his own words (recorded in the examples you provided by John). It is, however, not evidence that the Bible of extra-terrestrial origin - this is my opinion.

You must be joking. That's assumption is almost as ridiculous as claiming that Christ's words aren't recorded. There isn't a single human+Being in all of human history that has the level of documentation that Christ had when He was here in the body of Jesus. We literally changed the way we kept time based on His visit.

And as far as the flood, Exodus and the kings of Israel and the kings of Judah, there's plenty of real archaeological evidence IF someone applies reason and common-sense to their choices of where to look.

A 458 lb stone made of purplish porphyry stone from the Bethel area in Israel, with a wear mark in the top of it made from carrying it through the wilderness for 40 years, winding up underneath the chair built by Edward the 1st ("Longshanks" in the movie "Braveheart") in England should be all the archaelogical evidence any REASONABLY minded human+Being would need to recognize this subject merits further investigation.

View attachment 32168

And yes, samples of that Stone in England at the time have undergone a forensic examination under microscope, and its grain structure has been matched to samples from the Bethel area in Israel.
The story of the flood originated from India and was transmitted to Sumer (Mesopotamia). It found its way in the Bible by the authors of the Old Testament. Exodus - you expect me to apply reason when there is no evidence in the first place. Yes, there were kings in Judah but we don't have any evidence for Saul, Solomon and David. The remains of kingdoms found in and around Jerusalem for instance show that they belonged to Egyptian King, - not said Solomon.The "Wailing Wall" isn't any different: it's the reminds of Roman fort Antonia.

Thanks for sharing the information on the stone. For the record, Bethel (Beth El, House of El) is town named after El, the most High God of the Canaanite (polytheistic) pantheon. That is where the Israelites had their worship temple. All Biblical names ending in El (GabriEL, SamuEl, AriEl, JahaziEl, etc) were after El, the most High God of the Canaanite (polytheistic) pantheon. Why?
 






Last edited:

rainerann

Star
Joined
Mar 18, 2017
Messages
4,088
Studies on genetics are also suggesting that either the Bible didn't take place where it did or that the events in the Bible didn't take place at all.

In comparison with data available from other relevant populations in the region, Jews were found to be more closely related to groups in the north of the Fertile Crescent (Kurds, Turks, and Armenians) than to their Arab neighbors.

This would indicate that at some point, the religion of Judaism was invented somewhere north of Palestine and there was a consequent conversion process that happened after this.

The Times of Israel published an article about how it has been determined that the Canaanites were not annihilated as the Bible suggests. They conclude that they just moved further north in the Fertile Crescent, which we consider Lebanon.


A new study suggests the biblical account of the commanded annihilation of the ancient Canaanite people at the hands of the invading Israelites was a bit premature, claiming their descendants are still living just up the road, across the Lebanese border.

New genetic research from the Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute has found that far from being destroyed, the Canaanites morphed into the inhabitants of modern Lebanon.

Scientists in the United Kingdom-based genetic research center sequenced the genomes of five 4,000-year-old Canaanite individuals and compared them to other ancient and present-day populations, including a sample of 99 modern Lebanese.

The results, published July 27 in the American Journal of Human Genetics, show that 93 percent of the ancestry of modern Lebanese ancestry comes from the Canaanites.

Had they been destroyed by the Israelites, who were commanded by God to annihilate them, it would have been a form of patricide. According to the study, the Canaanites were the common ancestor for several ancient peoples who inhabited the Levant during the Bronze Age, such as the Ammonites, Moabites, and Israelites.

“Each achieved their own cultural identities but all shared a common genetic and ethnic root with Canaanites,” according to the authors of the new study.

“For the first time we have genetic evidence for substantial continuity in the region, from the Bronze Age Canaanite population through to the present day. These results agree with the continuity seen by archaeologists,” said Dr. Claude Doumet-Serhal, co-author and director of the Sidon excavation site in Lebanon.

An early 12th century BCE Canaanite alphabet inscription found at Lachish in 2014. (courtesy of Yossi Garfinkel, Hebrew University)
The Canaanites, like the Israelites a Semitic-speaking people, were at the center of Bronze Age civilization and “inhabited an area bounded by Anatolia to the north, Mesopotamia to the east, and Egypt to the south, with access to Cyprus and the Aegean through the Mediterranean,” according to the study.

Mystery surrounds the fate of the Canaanites, who later came to be known as the Phoenicians, as they appear in scant historical records.

Although they introduced several innovations into society, including the first alphabet, other than in the Hebrew Bible — where their annihilation is clearly commanded — there are a few mentions in ancient Egyptian and Greek texts.

As reported in Science, Greek legend has it that the Canaanites originally came from the East.

According to the study, the Canaanite-related ancestry “derived from mixture between local Neolithic populations and eastern migrants genetically related to Chalcolithic Iranians.” The scientists estimate, “using linkage-disequilibrium decay patterns,” that the genetic mixture took place between 6,600–3,550 years ago, “coinciding with recorded massive population movements in Mesopotamia.”

Further, the Eurasian ancestry in the modern Lebanese genetic samples was not present in Bronze Age Canaanites or earlier Levantines. “We estimate that this Eurasian ancestry arrived in the Levant around 3,750–2,170 years ago during a period of successive conquests by distant populations,” write the scientists.

Did a Canaanite genocide occur?
In Deuteronomy 20:16, the ancient Israelites are commanded by God to completely wipe out the several Canaanite peoples after the death of the Hebrew leader Joshua.

“But in the cities of these peoples that the Lord your God gives you for an inheritance, you shall save alive nothing that breathes, but you shall utterly destroy them, the Hittites and the Amorites, the Canaanites and the Perizzites, the Hivites and the Jebusites, as the Lord your God has commanded.”

A series of Egyptian-style anthropoid coffins that served both Egyptians and Canaanites (Luke Tress/Times of Israel)

However, according to the report, archaeological evidence does not support widespread destruction of Canaanite cities between the Bronze and Iron Ages. For example, coastal cities such as Sidon and Tyre “show continuity of occupation until the present day.”

In one of the later books of the Bible, the Canaanite’s continuity is detailed, in spite of the earlier commandment for their annihilation. In Judges 3:1-3, it is described how the commandment was given so that the Israelites may learn warfare, but that remnants of the Canaanite peoples were allowed to exist, including “the five lords of the Philistines and all the Canaanites and the Sidonians and the Hivites who lived on Mount Lebanon…”

The analysis of the DNA from five Canaanite skeletons found in Sidon who lived 4,000 years ago, and comparison with modern day Lebanese, paint a picture much different than the annihilation recorded in the Bible.

“It was a pleasant surprise to be able to extract and analyze DNA from 4,000-year-old human remains found in a hot environment, which is not known for preserving DNA well,” said Dr. Marc Haber, from the Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute. Haber said the team overcame the climate’s challenge by taking samples from the petrous bone in the skull, which is a very tough bone with a high density of ancient DNA.
“Genetic studies using ancient DNA can expand our understanding of history, and answer questions about the likely origins and descendants of enigmatic populations like the Canaanites, who left few written records themselves,” said Dr. Chris Tyler-Smith, from the Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute.

“The overlap between the Bronze Age and present-day Levantines suggests a degree of genetic continuity in the region,” according to the study.

The Canaanites/Phoenicians that were never destroyed as a people are also known for setting up trade post along the Meditteraen, which included Italy.

Interestingly enough, genetic studies show that the majority of Ashkenazi Jews share the same genetic patterns as Italians.

Modern Jews may traditionally trace their ancestry to the Holy Land, but a new genetic study finds otherwise. A detailed look at thousands of genomes finds that Ashkenazim—who make up roughly 80% of the world’s Jews, including 90% of those in America and half of those in Israel—ultimately came not from the Middle East, but from Western Europe, perhaps Italy.

Most mainstream historians regard Ashkenazim as the descendants of Jews who moved into central Europe from the Middle East sometime before the 12th century C.E. Ashekenazim, like most members of this religious, cultural, and ethnic group, traditionally trace their ancestry to the ancient Israelites. The Israelites, in turn, arose between 3000 and 4000 years ago in the Middle East, according to both Biblical sources and archaeological evidence. They dispersed after the Romans destroyed their Second Temple in Jerusalem in 70 C.E.

Recent genetic work has supported this traditional view. Two studies, one led by geneticist Harry Ostrer of the New York University School of Medicine, and the other by geneticist Doron Behar of the Rambam Health Care Campus in Haifa, Israel, traced the three main Diaspora groups—Ashkenazim, Sephardim from Spain and Portugal, and Oriental Jews from the Middle East—to people who all lived in the Middle East about 2000 years ago. The Ostrer study used DNA from the nucleus of the cell in its analyses, and the Behar study used both nuclear and mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA); the latter comes from tiny bodies in the living cell that provide it with energy. Many other researchers considered these results to be definitive at the time.

Yet there were lingering questions. Ostrer and Behar had samples from only a couple of hundred Jews, for example. And while the Behar group identified four major mtDNA “founder groups” for the Ashkenazim, all supposedly with roots in the Middle East, it was able to trace only about 40% of Ashkenazi ancestry overall.

So a different team of scientists, led by geneticist Martin Richards at the University of Huddersfield in the United Kingdom, embarked on a new search for the origins of these four founder groups. The team focused on mtDNA, which is often employed in genetic studies because it is easier to sequence and allows analysis of huge population samples. However, mtDNA is inherited through the mother and not the father, so it reveals the history of maternal lineages only.

Geneticists have identified certain mtDNA markers that define lineages in different parts of the world. Behar’s group had traced the Jewish founder groups to two mtDNA genetic lineages called haplogroup K and haplogroup N1b. The Jewish lineages were nested within these two larger groups, which include both Jews and non-Jews. So Richards and his colleagues first set out to understand the history of these broader lineages. They analyzed about 2500 complete and 28,000 partial mtDNA genomes of mostly non-Jews worldwide, plus 836 partial mtDNA genomes of Ashkenazi Jews, to see where the Ashkenazim fit into the overall history.

The result was very clear-cut, the authors say: As reported online today in Nature Communications, more than 80% of Ashkenazi mtDNAs had their origins thousands of years ago in Western Europe, during or before Biblical times—and in some cases even before farming came to that part of the continent some 7500 years ago. The closest matches were with mtDNAs from people who today live in and around Italy. The results imply that the Jews can trace their heritage to women who had lived in Europe at that time. Very few Ashkenazi mtDNAs could be traced to the Middle East.

The results not only conflict with the Ostrer and Behar results, but also with widespread assumptions about Jewish identity. Jews have traditionally considered that the mother determines the ethnic identity of her children. If being Jewish is defined as genetically descending from the Israelites through the maternal line, then many Ashkenazi Jews fail the test, according to this data.
Richards acknowledges that the work is likely to be controversial. “I’d anticipate some resistance to our conclusions in certain quarters,” he says. One way to reconcile his team’s findings with those of other researchers, he says, is to assume that the founders of the male Ashkenazi lineages were indeed originally from the Middle East, but that the maternal line arose in Europe much earlier. The European women then converted to Judaism after male Jews moved into the continent, establishing the Ashkenazi lineages that we see today. That suggestion fits with the contention of some historians that many women converted to Judaism across Mediterranean Europe during the so-called Hellenistic period between about 300 B.C.E. and 30 B.C.E.

“The data are very convincing,” says Antonio Torroni, a geneticist at the University of Pavia in Italy and a leading expert in the genetics of Europeans. He adds that recent studies of DNA from the cell nucleus have also shown “a very close similarity between Ashkenazi Jews and Italians.”

The new data also put the nail in the coffin of another, highly controversial, hypothesis about Jewish ancestry: that the Ashkenazim actually descend from the Khazars, a Turkic people in Western Asia’s Caucasus region whose rulers are known to have converted to Judaism in the 8th century C.E. That idea was promoted in a 2008 book by historian Shlomo Sand of Tel Aviv University in Israel. Ostrer and Behar found no such link, however, and Richards’s team, which sampled mtDNAs from Asia and the Caucasus specifically to test this idea, also found no evidence for it.

Behar remains unconvinced. He says it’s “clear that Ashkenazi maternal ancestry includes both [Middle Eastern] and European origins,” but he does not agree that the deepest roots of the Ashkenazi Jews can be found in prehistoric Europe. He says that he and his colleagues will be submitting their critique of the Richards study soon to a peer-reviewed scientific journal.
"Behar remains unconvinced. He says it’s “clear that Ashkenazi maternal ancestry includes both [Middle Eastern] and European origins,” but he does not agree that the deepest roots of the Ashkenazi Jews can be found in prehistoric Europe. He says that he and his colleagues will be submitting their critique of the Richards study soon to a peer-reviewed scientific journal."

And we come full circle and can see that when these middle eastern results are compared, they share more traits with other groups from the historic area of the northern fertile crescent suggesting that as far back as the Hasmoneans, all Jewish people originate from some period of conversion more than likely connected with the history of the Phoenicians.


Genetic evidence within the region is also in the process of proving that the events in the Bible did not happen or they did not happen where we are told they happened historically.
 






Last edited:

Sanchuniathon

Rookie
Joined
Feb 2, 2020
Messages
24
Studies on genetics are also suggesting that either the Bible didn't take place where it did or that the events in the Bible didn't take place at all.




This would indicate that at some point, the religion of Judaism was invented somewhere north of Palestine and there was a consequent conversion process that happened after this.

The Times of Israel published an article about how it has been determined that the Canaanites were not annihilated as the Bible suggests. They conclude that they just moved further north in the Fertile Crescent, which we consider Lebanon.



The Canaanites/Phoenicians that were never destroyed as a people are also known for setting up trade post along the Meditteraen, which included Italy.

Interestingly enough, genetic studies show that the majority of Ashkenazi Jews share the same genetic patterns as Italians.



"Behar remains unconvinced. He says it’s “clear that Ashkenazi maternal ancestry includes both [Middle Eastern] and European origins,” but he does not agree that the deepest roots of the Ashkenazi Jews can be found in prehistoric Europe. He says that he and his colleagues will be submitting their critique of the Richards study soon to a peer-reviewed scientific journal."

And we come full circle and can see that when these middle eastern results are compared, they share more traits with other groups from the historic area of the northern fertile crescent suggesting that as far back as the Hasmoneans, all Jewish people originate from some period of conversion more than likely connected with the history of the Phoenicians.


Genetic evidence within the region is also in the process of proving that the events in the Bible did not happen or are not representing where they happened historically.
I would amend:

• The invention of today's Judaism came to be with the expansion of the Persian Empire who had made of Babylon its capital. It was formulated to replace the polytheistic beliefs in Canaan and to create a Temple State where a tax was to be collected. See: Persia and the Creation of Judaism.

• While the Times of Israel article brings up many valid points, its conclusion is nonsensical and propagandist. Why would the Canaanites (a.k.a. Phoenicians) move north when we know today that there was no invasion of Canaan and the mass-killing of its inhabitants in in the first place?

• The Times of Israel article also claims that "Mystery surrounds the fate of the Canaanites". No, it does not. We have a wealth of information on them but those who write history have chosen to throw the history of the Canaanites (a.k.a. Phoenicians) in the dust bin as it would reveal inconvenient truths. How does one forget an ancient people who have roots going back to several thousand years, who settled/dominated the entire Mediterranean basin for over a millennium and who were instrumental in the formation of the Western world. This began in the mid 1800s with the (racist) Anglo-Saxon ruling class who could not bare the fact that the formation of the Western World (Ancient Greece and Rome) was influenced by the Near East (Egypt and Phoenicia).

• Contrary to popular belief, Judaism was highly proselytizing and so the genetic similarities between today's Jews and Canaanite-Phoenician and Carthaginian history adds up. The Canaanite-Phoenicians had settled and dominated the Mediterranean basin for well over a thousand years before the fall of Carthage - after which they converted to Judaism before Christianity or Islam.
 






Last edited:

A Freeman

Star
Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
1,470
The Times of Israel is a Zionist, anti-BDS propaganda machine. Quoting anything from them is simply regurgitating their lies, since they they are obviously counterfeits (Ashkenazis and Idumean Edomites).

It's no surprise that the Ashkenazis and Italians share similar DNA. The Romans are the direct descendants of the Babylonians. And it was in Babylon, c. 550 BC, where the Babylonian Talmud was written, giving birth to Talmudic Judaism. Thank-you @rainerann for posting that information.

Regarding being able to trace that DNA back to the times of Moses, Joshua, or even king David or king Solomon, where did the original DNA samples come from to make the comparisons? And why don't people actually think about that extremely logical question before swallowing a bunch of scientific nonsense?

If one wishes to make a god out of scientific DNA testing, which proves absolutely nothing because there are no original samples to use as a basis for comparison, then any claim is possible. The same goes for the absolutely worthless radiocarbon-dating, which has been repeatedly proven to be wildly inaccurate, sometimes many thousands of years off.
 






Sanchuniathon

Rookie
Joined
Feb 2, 2020
Messages
24
The Times of Israel is a Zionist, anti-BDS propaganda machine. Quoting anything from them is simply regurgitating their lies, since they they are obviously counterfeits (Ashkenazis and Idumean Edomites).

It's no surprise that the Ashkenazis and Italians share similar DNA. The Romans are the direct descendants of the Babylonians. And it was in Babylon, c. 550 BC, where the Babylonian Talmud was written, giving birth to Talmudic Judaism. Thank-you @rainerann for posting that information.

Regarding being able to trace that DNA back to the times of Moses, Joshua, or even king David or king Solomon, where did the original DNA samples come from to make the comparisons? And why don't people actually think about that extremely logical question before swallowing a bunch of scientific nonsense?

If one wishes to make a god out of scientific DNA testing, which proves absolutely nothing because there are no original samples to use as a basis for comparison, then any claim is possible. The same goes for the absolutely worthless radiocarbon-dating, which has been repeatedly proven to be wildly inaccurate, sometimes many thousands of years off.
• The Times of Israel is indeed a propagandist machine but it does not mean that the article (which links to various genetic studies) is entirely inaccurate. It does highlight truths - namely the genetic admixture of Neolithic and Eastern peoples and later the one of Euroasian peoples, that the ancient Canaanites and Phoenicians were one and the same people and that Canaan and the mass-killing of its inhabitants never happened.

• The genetic study in question isn't about the Biblical characters but a comparison between skeletons dating to the second millennium BC that were found in Sidon (present-day Lebanon) and today's Lebanese people.
 






A Freeman

Star
Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
1,470
• The Times of Israel is indeed a propagandist machine but it does not mean that the article (which links to various genetic studies) is entirely inaccurate. It does highlight truths - namely the genetic admixture of Neolithic and Eastern peoples and later the one of Euroasian peoples, that the ancient Canaanites and Phoenicians were one and the same people and that Canaan and the mass-killing of its inhabitants never happened.

• The genetic study in question isn't about the Biblical characters but a comparison between skeletons dating to the second millennium BC that were found in Sidon (present-day Lebanon) and today's Lebanese people.
Thank-you, however one needs to be just as critical of the scientific means and biases by which these genetic studies are carried out as they are about the propaganda machines that publish them.

You keep trying (and failing) to discredit the Bible using science, which itself is discredited by the Bible for good reason.

1 Timothy 5:20-21
5:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane [and] vain babblings, and OPPOSITIONS OF SCIENCE (knowledge) FALSELY SO CALLED:
5:21 Which some professing [to have] have erred concerning the faith. Grace [be] with thee. Amen.

There are literally thousands of cases that are now being reversed and dismissed because prosecutors got their forensic serologists to tamper with the DNA evidence so they could maintain their high conviction rates and advance their careers. And in doing so sent thousands to prison who were innocent of the crimes for which they were accused.

If people will use fake DNA "evidence" to convict innocent people just to make themselves look good at their jobs and make a little more money, how much more would the evil leaders of this world - most if not all of which are counterfeit Jews - obscure their fraud with paid for DNA studies linking the indigenous people of wherever to whatever region of the world they wish, for whatever purpose serves them?

The correct approach to all scientific studies is likewise outlined for us in Scripture.

Matthew 6:33 But seek ye FIRST The Kingdom of God, and His Righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

2 Peter 1:19 We have also the more SURE WORD OF PROPHECY; whereunto ye do well that ye TAKE HEED, as unto a Light that shineth in a dark place, until the Day dawn, and the Morning Star (Rev. 30:16) arise in your hearts:

If a scientific study (or the interpretation of its results) SEEMS to contradict Scriptural prophecy, it is WRONG. Period. And in truth, we have volumes of secular historical records, archaelogical evidence and even genetic evidence that corroborates the Biblical account in amazing detail.

Of course that is quickly dismissed by those who have made science a god rather than a tool to be used for GOOD rather than for evil, as it usually is on this planet.
 






Sanchuniathon

Rookie
Joined
Feb 2, 2020
Messages
24
Thank-you, however one needs to be just as critical of the scientific means and biases by which these genetic studies are carried out as they are about the propaganda machines that publish them.

You keep trying (and failing) to discredit the Bible using science, which itself is discredited by the Bible for good reason.

1 Timothy 5:20-21
5:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane [and] vain babblings, and OPPOSITIONS OF SCIENCE (knowledge) FALSELY SO CALLED:
5:21 Which some professing [to have] have erred concerning the faith. Grace [be] with thee. Amen.

There are literally thousands of cases that are now being reversed and dismissed because prosecutors got their forensic serologists to tamper with the DNA evidence so they could maintain their high conviction rates and advance their careers. And in doing so sent thousands to prison who were innocent of the crimes for which they were accused.

If people will use fake DNA "evidence" to convict innocent people just to make themselves look good at their jobs and make a little more money, how much more would the evil leaders of this world - most if not all of which are counterfeit Jews - obscure their fraud with paid for DNA studies linking the indigenous people of wherever to whatever region of the world they wish, for whatever purpose serves them?

The correct approach to all scientific studies is likewise outlined for us in Scripture.

Matthew 6:33 But seek ye FIRST The Kingdom of God, and His Righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

2 Peter 1:19 We have also the more SURE WORD OF PROPHECY; whereunto ye do well that ye TAKE HEED, as unto a Light that shineth in a dark place, until the Day dawn, and the Morning Star (Rev. 30:16) arise in your hearts:

If a scientific study (or the interpretation of its results) SEEMS to contradict Scriptural prophecy, it is WRONG. Period. And in truth, we have volumes of secular historical records, archaelogical evidence and even genetic evidence that corroborates the Biblical account in amazing detail.

Of course that is quickly dismissed by those who have made science a god rather than a tool to be used for GOOD rather than for evil, as it usually is on this planet.
The article in theTimes of Israel did not conduct the genetic study but only reported the findings: that the Canaanites were no mass-killed as claimed in the Bible. The author of the article also reported the findings of archeological excavations: that Canaan was never invaded. That said, the article's "conclusion" (if it can be called that) is purely opinionated. The fact that the DNA of the skeleton (found in Sidon, Lebanon) matches the one of present-day Lebanese cannot be interpreted as "the Canaanites having moved north".

Little does the author of the article realize, she contradicts herself: since she knows and acknowledges that Canaan was not invaded and its inhabitants were not mass-killed, why would they have moved? Truth of the matter is that present-day Lebanon is part of ancient Canaan (a.k.a. Phoenicia) and that a big part of today's Lebanese carry the Canaanite-Phoenician DNA. So does 1 of 17 people in the Mediterranean.

Suggesting that science cannot discredit the Bible because the Bible discredits science is a testimony of your indoctrination. While I respect your view, you'll forgive me for not entertaining your zealotry.
 






rainerann

Star
Joined
Mar 18, 2017
Messages
4,088
I would amend:

• The invention of today's Judaism came to be with the expansion of the Persian Empire who had made of Babylon its capital. It was formulated to replace the polytheistic beliefs in Canaan and to create a Temple State where a tax was to be collected. See: Persia and the Creation of Judaism.
Over the last couple of years, I have been wanting to see how the similarities between Zoroastrism and Christianity were created. I found this book the other day suggesting that the Essenes were Zoroastrians. I went about trying to look up information on this and ended up watching a documentary on the history of Persepolis.


It pointed out the enmity between the Greeks and Persians in a way that just never seemed to catch my attention before now. It mentioned that the Greeks considered the Persians to be barbarians and that their strategy of attack played on the element of surprise.

This seemed to create a connection between the history of the Greek Septuagint as some sort of Greek attempt to assimilate the Persians after conquering the territory they had claimed or that is was something similar to the strategy of surprise that inevitably gave them victory over the Persians. The possibility of a sort of Zoroastrian conversion to a Hellenic world.

There is a researcher who has written a book called Berossus and Genesis, Manetho and Exodus who suggests that the Hebrew Bible could not have been written prior to approximately 300 BC. This would coexist somewhat with the history of Alexander the Great who is praised in later Jewish writings.

This same researcher has another book called Plato and the Creation of the Hebrew Bible. I haven't read this, but Plato was a teacher of Aristotle who was a teacher of Alexander the Great.

This would also make sense of the history of forced conversions to Judaism during this time as a way of conquering territory formally controlled by Persia. This would also make sense of the Elephantine papyri. It is suggested that this creates the first reference to the Jews. However, there is nothing really Jewish about them. There is no mention of Abraham. There is no mention of the law or the exodus. There is only a minor reference to a priest that is mentioned in Nehemiah I believe.

This would seem to suggest that the temple that was built in Elelaphantine and the communications with the near east were in some way connected to the Persian empire and the influence of Zoroastrism rather than demonstrating a history of Judaism.

All this led me to a search, where I found this post again with a link that suddenly became useful to me. There is a lot of interesting information about the history of Ugarit writings in this book. I wish that I could find this in print or as an ebook to keep track of things better. A part that I can't find because it was difficult to highlight information as I was reading was about the lying involved in creating the Bible because it is one thing tho pass information off that could otherwise be considered a myth. It is another thing to claim that this myth conveys a literal history of the area.

This can be clearly seen in the documentary on Persepolis. There is nothing of equal value that has ever been found from the archeological efforts within Israel. The question that has always puzzled me is the why question. Why would someone do something like this? I think there does appear to be some legitimate reasons to believe the Greeks would be motivated to do something like this. It is really opening up a new direction for me to have an answer to why. I'm wondering what you would think about this and whether or not you have read through the book that you included in this post?
 






A Freeman

Star
Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
1,470
Glastonbury - Summerland


"And did those feet in ancient time

Walk upon England’s mountains green?

And was the Holy Lamb of God

On England’s pleasant pastures seen?"


William Blake (1757-1827).


Why did William Blake ask this; what seems, on the face of it, to many people to be a ridiculous question; in his famous poem?

Why would a child who is supposed to have grown up in Nazareth have been in England? Did William Blake know something you don’t?

Official historical records, both domestic and foreign, including at least four official Vatican documents*, confirm that Joseph of Arimathaea fled the Holy Land with Mary the mother of Jesus and others; came to England; settled and was eventually buried, along with Virgin Mary, in Glastonbury after the Crucifixion of Jesus the Nazarite (Num. 6), during the vicious persecution of the first followers of The New Way - Christ.

* Council of Pisa (A.D. 1417); Council of Constance, also in A.D. 1417; Council at Sienna 1424; Council at Basle in 1434.

Twelve hides* of land were given by the British High-king (Arviragus) to Joseph and his companions, free from tax in perpetuity - also confirmed by official historical records including the Domesday Book** (Domesday Survey, folio p. 249b). Why? Surely a pagan monarch would not give a large area of land, and make it free from taxation in perpetuity, to just anyone, especially not to a person espousing a new religion that was strange to him, and therein lies a hidden clue to where Jesus spent his childhood and missing years. A Christian monarch would be much more likely to welcome fleeing followers and family members of Jesus. But if Jesus lived in Nazareth, and the British monarch was a blue-painted savage, as the Roman and Protestant Christian churches would wrongfully have us believe, how could the British monarch be a Christian before Joseph of Arimathaea arrived in England?

* Hide - Measure of land, enough to support a man and his extended family (160 acres. 1 acre = 4840 sq. yds.).
** This record called Domesday Booke was completed in 1088 A.D. and it contains this record. "The Domus Dei, in the great monastery of Glastonbury, called the secret of Yahweh. This Glastonbury church possesses in its own villa XII hides of land which have never paid tax." Note that this official record names this early church Domus Dei, the home of God, and the secret of Yahweh ("I AM" – God).


Many truths have been purposely hidden from the world by so-called Christian religious leaders wanting to enlarge their power and coffers using their false "protection-racket" and many lies and deceptions have been perpetrated upon the world, especially the British and English speaking peoples in order to achieve their evil aims of self-aggrandizement, enrichment and domination.

For example: how many British people have been taught in school that the word Brit-ish is Hebrew and means "Covenant-man", as it does also in Welsh, in other words, Israelite-man? None. If they have learned it, they have had to do so from unofficial sources, even though it is an undeniable fact, known to Sir Francis Drake and stated by him before the Armada in his letter to John Foxe (1587).

First of all, Jesus could not possibly have been from Nazareth, because there was no town called Nazareth at the time of Jesus, who was a Nazarite (Num. 6), not a citizen of non-existent Nazareth. Nowhere in the ancient Jewish writings is there a town called Nazareth mentioned and there is no physical evidence that a town called Nazareth existed before the fourth century A.D., long after Jesus had ascended from the Mount of Olives into heaven.

So, as there was no town of Nazareth and the British monarch was already a Christian (Gildas, De Excidio Britanniae)* when Joseph of Arimathaea arrived in England: who converted the British people to Christianity? It couldn’t have been the disciples because they arrived with, or after Joseph. So who did convert the British people to Christianity?
There can be only one answer to that question - Christ.

* Gildas the Wise (born Strathclyde c. 493 – died 570 A.D.),who reportedly spent some years at Glastonbury Abbey states:

"These islands received the beams of light - that is, the holy precepts of Christ - the true Sun, as we know, at the latter part of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, in whose time this religion was propagated without impediment and death threatened to those who interfered with its professors." - "De Excidio Britanniae" ("The Ruin and Conquest of Britain" probably written between 516 and 547; c. 540) (Matthews, p. 87)


As Tiberius Caesar died in 37 A.D., this reference places Christianity in Britain during the life of Jesus.

Is there any proof that Jesus lived in England during the missing years? Physical evidence – no; circumstantial evidence, allied with common-sense deduction - yes. Lots of it. There is more than enough evidence to persuade anyone with a truly open mind that Jesus spent his missing years in what is now called England, at Glastonbury and not in the then non-existent town of Nazareth.

In the Irish version of the Gospel of Matthew we are told that Druids came to the East to worship the King of kings. Britain was ruled by the Levitical Druid religion and the word Druid means Truth, their motto being "The Truth Against the World". Glastonbury was a Druid centre of learning and there was an observatory on the summit of Tor Hill for the study of astronomy. They were waiting for their Messiah Yesu/Hesus – Jesus (the Truth made flesh) - to come. In other words the real true Druids were the Levitical priesthood of the ten "lost" tribes of Israel, in exile.

In the year 7 B.C. there was a conjunction of Jupiter (the king of the planets) and Saturn (thought to be the protector of Israel) in the Constellation of Pisces (the Sign of the Messiah), as computed in 1603 by the Astronomer Royal in Prague - Johannes Kepler, that was first visible at daybreak on the 12th of April 7 B.C. (Passover in 7 B.C. was on Monday April 13th which commenced at sundown on the 12th). The earth-shattering significance of this conjunction – Messiah; King; Protector of Israel; Passover - would have been unmistakable to the Levitical Druid astronomers in the British Isles, where the monarch was also the Archdruid.

King of kings’ Bible - Matthew 2:1 Now when Jesus had been born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men (druids) to the East to Jerusalem,
2:2 Saying, Where is he that has been BORN King of the Jews? for we saw his "Star" in the East, and are come to worship him.
2:3 When Herod the king had heard [these things], he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.
2:4 And when he had gathered all the chief priests and lawyers of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.
2:5 And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet,
2:6 And thou Bethlehem, [in] the land of Judah, art not the least among the princes of Judah: for out of thee shall come a Governor (of this prison planet), that shall rule My people Israel.

Historical records show that Mary the mother of Jesus was a member of the British royal family, descended from David and also the priestly line of Levi - she was the cousin of Elisabeth. This Levitical connection is confirmed both in the Gospel of Luke and also in the Koran, which also confirms that Mary travelled to the East to give birth to Jesus in fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy. Mary’s Levitical and Davidic lineage meant that Jesus was therefore eligible to be both King and High-Priest, also in fulfillment of Scriptural prophecy.

Luke 1:36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.
1:37 For with God nothing shall be impossible.
1:38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.
1:39 And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda;
1:40 And entered into the house of Zacharias (a Levitical priest), and saluted Elisabeth.
1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit:
1:42 And she spoke out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed [art] thou among women, and blessed [is] the fruit of thy womb.
1:43 And whence [is] this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

King of kings’ Bible - Sura 3:33. God did choose Adam and Noah, the family of Abraham, and the family of Amram above all people,-
3:34. Offspring, one of the other: and God heareth and knoweth all things.
3:35. Behold! A woman (Hannah - Anne who was a member of the British Royal Family) of Amram (who was a Levite and Moses’ dad) said: "O my Lord! I do dedicate unto Thee what is in my womb for Thy special service: so accept this of me: for Thou hearest and knowest all things."
3:36. When she was delivered, she said: "O my Lord! Behold! I am delivered of a female child!"- and God knew best what she brought forth- "And in no way is the male like the female. I have named her Mary, and I commend her and her offspring to Thy protection from the Evil One, the Rejected."

King of kings’ Bible - Sura 19:16. Relate in the Book (the story of) Mary, when she withdrew from her family (in Britain) to a place in the East (Israel).

Is it not perfectly logical then, that Druids seeing his star in the East and, being the Levitical priesthood in exile, therefore knowing the Old Testament prophecies, would come to the Holy Land to pay homage to their prophesied Messiah and long-awaited King of kings? It took them almost two years after seeing the "star" to prepare for and make the journey from Britain and that is why Herod slew all the male children up to two years of age, after having talked to them and made diligent inquiry about the date of Jesus’ birth (12th April 7 B.C.). The Druids found a young child, in a house, not a baby in a stable as the shepherds had done two years earlier.

Matthew 2:9 When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the "Star", which they had seen in the East, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was.
2:10 When they saw the "Star", they rejoiced with exceeding great joy.
2:11 And when they were come into the HOUSE, they saw the young CHILD with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.
2:12 And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way.

Herod (who died in 4 B.C.) was troubled and all Jerusalem with him. So troubled that he ordered the "Slaughter of the Innocents" that Jesus escaped from, by going into Egypt. Where would they stay in Egypt? How would they live in a strange land? Joseph de Marmore from Arimathaea lived at Marmorica in Egypt before later moving to Arimathaea. The Jesus family would have escaped by going to visit their uncle Joseph who was extremely wealthy and Rome’s "Nobilis Decurio" (Minister for Mines), and, knowing they would not be safe for long in Egypt, they took passage on one of uncle Joseph’s ships and sailed to Mary’s home in England, where they would be safe. Would they not be safest in Mary’s homeland, being also the land from where her relatives, the Druid kings, had come from to pay homage to their Messiah - the King of kings? Britain was also, at that time; unlike the Holy Land; free and safe from pagan Roman domination.

A young man, who, according to Scripture (Luke 2:46-47), at 12 years of age could astound the elders in The Temple with his knowledge, would not sit idly by for the next 20+ years, especially after saying he must be about his Father’s business. During that time he would have been talking to many people and astounding them too. If the mission in the Holy Land did only last for three and a half years, as is commonly believed, then where did he spend the other three and a half years confirming The Covenant, as was prophesied through Daniel? It must have been in England. He told the disciples: "Other sheep I have (present not future tense), who are not of this fold. Go to the lost sheep of the House of Israel – the ten 'lost' tribes of Israel."

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm The Covenant with many for one week: (seven days/prophetic years) and in the midst of the week (Wednesday 21st April 34 A.D.) he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations He shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation (the "Lake of Hell-Fire"), and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Ealdechurche.



In the abbey grounds at Glastonbury, there is a section of the ruins (Feature No. 3 on map below) confusingly called, variously: Mary’s Chapel; Lady’s Chapel; Joseph’s Chapel and also known as the "Vetusta Ecclesia"; the "Lignea Basilica"; the "Ealdechurche" or "Old Church" and "Domus Dei" (Home of God). It is here that both Mary the mother of Jesus and her uncle Joseph de Marmore from Arimathaea were buried inside a wattle and daub building, reputed to have been built by Jesus.



It is claimed that Jesus built a church there for his mother but that is extremely unlikely because Jesus, as recorded in Matthew chapter six, instructs his followers not to go to church but to pray only in private - in their closet, after first closing the door. The building may have been Jesus’ own house, that later would naturally become the burial place of his mother and uncle Joseph, which then became a shrine and was later-on built over as a church, in violation of Jesus’ commands. Do mothers today, who have lost their children, not spend much time in their lost child’s room, trying to be near to them? Would Mary not have done the same and have also wanted to be buried there?

Since that time, other more durable buildings have successively been built over it, getting bigger and grander, exactly like has happened with the church of the Holy Sepulchre, in Jerusalem. However, every time they rebuilt it and made it stronger, Christ had it demolished to prevent people from going to church, as he had instructed his faithful not to go to church, as is recorded in Matthew 6:5-6.

Matthew 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt NOT be as the hypocrites [ARE]: for they love to pray standing in the churches and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and WHEN THOU HAST SHUT THY DOOR, pray to thy Father in private (Enoch 56:5; Sura 7:55); and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

Ancient records tell of the original building being preserved by a shell built around it, of boards, covered with lead. Later a stone building was erected, enclosing the earlier ones. David erected a large stone church as an addition to this in 546 A.D. A record he made of this on a bronze tablet was still in place at the time of the seizure and dissolution of the monastery, under orders from king Henry VIII.

Taliesin the Druid, the great Welsh prince and Bard of the sixth century wrote, "Christ, the Word from the beginning, was from the beginning our teacher, and we never lost His teachings."

Even in Ireland; which, incidentally, has the largest copper deposits in Europe; is found the tradition of Joseph of Arimathaea having founded the Glastonbury church. Bronze, from which the plaque mentioned above was made, is a mixture of copper and tin, probably from what was once one of Joseph’s tin mines.

Still existing royal charters granted by king Ina, dated 704 A.D., and by king Cnut dated 1032 A.D., attest that these kings, in this church, signed them.

This great abbey was the one destroyed by the fire, in 1184 A.D., which consumed the greater part of the abbey, including the original wattle building. The lead that had encased it melted and destroyed it. No real reason was ever put forward as to why the fire started, but it was generally circulated at the time, that candles had ignited some curtains during a wind-storm. Immediately thereafter, king Henry II of England issued a royal charter for the rebuilding of Glastonbury Abbey. The charter called the abbey, "The mother and burying place of the saints, founded by the very disciples of our Lord".

After almost a 100 years the work on the great Church had been completed and then, in 1275 A.D., years of work was destroyed by an earthquake that severely damaged much of the stone work. Again, the monks undertook restoration work under the supervision of the various abbots and the abbey once again became a building of splendour. Finally, in 1539, the abbey came into the possession of the king, Henry VIII, and so came about its final dissolution.


Testimony of the great church historian.

The great church historian, Hugh Paulinus de Cressy, writing in 1668 A.D. said, "This, our land of Brittany, though called by the Romans another world, as being divided from the whole then discovered habitable earth, yet the riches of Divine mercy received the beams of the Son of Righteousness before many other countries nearer approaching to the place where He first rose." He also says, "Now the most eminent of the primitive disciples and who contributed most to this heavenly building, was Joseph of Arimathaea and eleven of his companions along with him, among whom is reckoned his son of the same name. These, toward the latter end of Nero’s reign and before Peter and Paul were consummated by a glorious martyrdom. By the testimony of ancient records they were said to have entered this island because of its isolation, the benevolence of the British princes (blue-painted savages, we are told by church and historians) and freedom from Roman tyranny. This place was more opportune and better prepared for entertaining and learning the Gospel of the Kingdom, than almost any country under the Romans."

The Holy Thorn.




The legend tells us that Joseph of Arimathaea brought his staff from the Holy Land and planted it on Wearyall Hill. But it certainly was not his own staff, because he had to pass on his own staff to his eldest son, as was the death-bed custom. Joseph was an extremely wealthy man with a fleet of ships, who owned tin-mines in Cornwall and lead-mines in the Mendip Hills and, like all wealthy men, would not have done much walking, but rather would have ridden in comfort. Therefore he would not have needed a walking-staff, and, if he had one, it would have most probably been ornate, perhaps with a gold or ivory handle to demonstrate his position in society. Jesus however, as the Good Shepherd, did a lot of walking, seeking out his "lost" sheep and would have needed a Shepherd’sstaff, whilst spreading his message far and wide.

After the Crucifixion, Joseph of Arimathaea, as Jesus’ great-uncle and oldest male relative, would have, along with the body of Jesus, whom he laid in his own tomb, become custodian of Jesus’ possessions – his staff and his olive-wood drinking-cup. He would have treasured these simple possessions as keep-sakes of his great nephew and Master. Naturally when he fled from the persecution he would carry these keep-sakes with him to England. So then we are left with a question – after carrying Jesus’ staff to England with him, why did he plant it in that particular spot on Wearyall Hill?

Jesus was in the habit of finding a quiet spot in which to reflect and to talk to Father. We have the evidence of this habit, in the Scriptures, where we are told that Jesus would go apart to talk to Father and the Garden of Gethsemane is mentioned by name. Anyone who has visited the site of the Holy Thorn on Wearyall Hill should understand why Jesus would have picked that spot, as his place of solitude. It is on the sunny-side of the hill and in a natural hollow, where many people, since then, including the legendary king Arthur, who was reputedly a descendant of Joseph’s, have laid and prayed and/or admired the view. It has the feel of being an unspoiled and special place, even now, 2000 years later. So, being a special and favourite place of Jesus’, would it not be perfectly natural for Joseph to plant a tree there in commemoration of his favourite and very special great-nephew? Do we not still plant trees to commemorate people today? Why? Perhaps it is a custom we have learned from our ancient ancestor/s like Joseph of Arimathaea.

What better tree could Joseph plant, for that purpose, than the very staff of Jesus, knowing also that the tree itself would prevent the place from being desecrated by having a locked-up church built on it and becoming a commercialized shrine, denying people free access, having its simple beauty, for which it was chosen, and its accessibility spoiled forever? The placing of a stake, or planting of a tree, is also part of the ancient custom of laying claim to an "Appointed Place" (2 Sam. 7:10), as Jesus did posthumously through prior instructions given to Joseph of Arimathaea, claiming it for his sheep/people.

The Glastonbury Holy Thorn Tree is unique in that it has no exact parallel amongst native English trees. It blooms twice a year, which no other English tree does. The natural blooming time of the Levantine (Palestine) thorn is during the month of December, whilst British ones bloom in May. The Glastonbury Thorn; of which there is one in the grounds of the abbey ruins, one in the grounds of the Parish Church of John the Baptist on the Glastonbury High Street and one at the Chalice Well, all taken as cuttings from the original on Wearyall Hill; blooms in May along with all the English trees and then again in December along with all the Palestinian trees. Cuttings from the trees have been sent to a variety of places around the world and the subsequent trees grown from the cuttings have continued to bloom twice a year.
 






Last edited:

A Freeman

Star
Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
1,470
Glastonbury - Summerland (continued)

Jesus’ Wooden Cup.

But what happened to the cup? There is a legend that Joseph buried it at Chalice Hill and another that is more credible, that it was kept hidden in the Celtic church at Glastonbury, which originally was a church of the Culdees but later was demolished and rebuilt in a manner more suitable to Rome. King Arthur’s knights (c. 500 A.D.), who were Celtic "Culdee" Christians, like Columba of Kells and Iona was, went looking for the Holy Grail, both physically and spiritually, to return the land to the true teaching of Christ, but could not find the Grail, as it was hidden from them by the monks of the rebuilt and Romanised church in Glastonbury. Columba; who also taught Celtic Christianity, with justice, equality and prosperity for all; was censured by a synod of the Romanised clergy at Teltown near Kells, Co. Meath, in Ireland and, as a result of that censure, he left Ireland and went to Iona in 563 A.D., at the age of 42.

No-one has ever understood the story of Arthur and Excalibre – the Sword of Power (Ex-calibre - without equal) that he drew from the Stone. The story is very simple and perhaps that is why no-one has ever understood it, because people always try to physicalise and humanize things that are spiritual. "He who draws the Sword from The Stone shall be king", means quite simply that he who draws the Sword of the Spirit (God’s Truth) from The Stone (Christ) will be king. This is explained in more detail in the little Book – "The Way home or face The Fire"

Arthur; reputedly a descendant of Joseph of Arimathaea; prayed at the Holy Thorn site on Wearyall Hill, to find the Truth of Christ’s teaching and then returned the land to keeping The Covenant and God’s Law, instead of the laws of men, as Jesus taught and for which he was crucified.* This put Arthur, like Columba in Ireland, in direct conflict with the Roman church and its corrupted, churchified, idolatrous, ritualized ceremonies and teaching, which he fought and defeated with his famous Knights of the Round Table, bringing peace, health and prosperity to all, as God promised He would do, if people kept The Covenant. The Round Table, which is reputed to have been made by Uther Pendragon for his son Arthur, after the pattern of the Last Supper, or a copy, now hangs in the Great Hall of Winchester. The rules of the Round Table were from the Druidic, Levitical, Torah Law-principles and "Self"-sacrifice in the cause of King and country, as taught by Christ.

* It is of note that some of the first words Pilate said to Jesus were "What is Truth?" These three words were passwords used by the British Druids and there are authorities who say that Pontius Pilate finished his education in a Druid College in Britain

Gradually, over a period of many years, there was the inevitable falling away again from the original teachings of Christ Jesus and Joseph of Arimathaea. As the Catholic Church became more and more powerful and involved in religion, so, many of the earlier teachings became lost and the simplicity of the Gospel was lost in the profound "mysteries" of Catholicism, followed closely by its daughter - Protestantism.

As Arthur was dying, he told Percival to find a lake of still waters (Ps. 23:2) and throw the Sword of Power into the lake, predicting this falling-away from the truth and that the people would not accept it from his successor, Percival at first refused, saying that the Sword (Truth) that Arthur had drawn from The Stone (Christ) must not be lost to mankind, but on Arthur’s reassurance, that one day The King (Christ) would come (in England to His British people) and the Sword would rise again, he obeyed Arthur and cast it into the lake of still waters (Ps. 23:2).

The reason that the true identity of the British people, being the House of Israel, and therefore the fact that the British Throne is Christ’s Birthright, has been purposely kept from them, is because the monarchs, under God’s Law (Deuteronomy 17:14-20), are not allowed to use their position for personal gain of any kind. So the British monarchs, in league with the churches, have hidden their true identity from the British peoples in order to enable themselves and their friends to give them-selves grandiose false titles, seize lands and property and make up their own laws to enrich themselves, at the expense of the rest of the people. The churches have been assisted by them in this as is explained by Christ in Scripture (Rev. 17 & 18). This practice is strictly forbidden under God’s Law in the Bible, which is why God’s Law is not taught in schools, or churches and consequently this world that we live in is overflowing with so much greed, hatred, poverty, crime and filth.

Churches, that Jesus told people not to visit, or build, have been used to teach people the lie, amongst others, that Jesus was very poor and so the people must try to emulate him and not complain about being forced into becoming poor, because, in being poor, they are supposedly following in Jesus’ footsteps, thereby enabling their powerful friends to further enrich themselves, with little or no resistance from the people. The British church leaders are also members of parliament and have actually worked with the monarchy and their powerful friends to pass legislation that God says is prohibited.

Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not ADD unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish [ought] from it, that ye may keep the Commandments of the "I AM" your God which I COMMAND you.

In the 16th century, to protect the Cup from Henry the Eighth, it was sent to Nanteos Manor near Aberystwyth and more recently it is, or rather what is left of it, reputed to have been returned to Glastonbury. I say "what is left of it" because silly superstitious people taking a drink from it, over the centuries, have taken and swallowed small bites out of the wood, so that now there is approximately only the bottom third remaining of it.

It is reported that at the time of the destruction of Glastonbury Abbey, Richard Whiting, the last Abbot, entrusted a wooden cup to his monks to carry away to safety. This cup was described as "the most precious treasure of our Abbey". The monks fled into Wales and took sanctuary in the remote Cistercian Abbey of Strata Florida (now ruined). However, with the continuing approach of king Henry’s men they had to flee even further west and they ended up at Nanteos Manor which is in a secluded valley about three miles from Aberystwyth. Over the years the monks remained safely at Nanteos Manor, until eventually they began to die of old age. At that time the last surviving monk supposedly gave the Cup to Mr. Powell the lord of the Manor and charged him that the Cup would remain at Nanteos Manor "until the church claims her own".

Many silly stories have been told about the Cup and the search for the Holy Grail (grail - wooden cup) because no-one has ever understood what Jesus really said about the Cup of Life - immortality.

The disciples asked Jesus if they could accompany him to heaven and were asked: "Can you drink from the cup that I drink from?" Obviously Jesus was not referring to the physical cup used at the Last Supper because they all drank from it, whilst drinking to the New Covenant. The real "Holy Grail" was not the physical cup that was used at the Last Supper, but the bitter Cup of Crucifixion of the "Self" that Jesus explained and referred to in Gethsemane. But man always seeks the easy path and tries to physicalise something that is spiritual, in order to delude himself into believing he can achieve human immortality of the flesh, rather than spiritual immortality, in or out of the flesh.

Matthew 20:22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the "Cup" that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.
20:23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but [it shall be given to them] for whom it is prepared of my Father.
26:27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave [it] to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
26:28 For this is my blood of the New Covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
26:38 Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.
26:39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this "Cup" pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as Thou [wilt].
26:40 And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour?
26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed [is] willing, but the flesh [is] weak.
26:42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this "Cup" (Holy Grail) may not pass away from me, except I drink it, Thy will be done.

This was the simple but powerful Truth that the boy Arthur found when he prayed by the Holy Thorn and drew the Sword of Power (Excalibre - without equal) from The Stone (Christ). It was the principle upon which he ruled the land and under which it and the people prospered in peace and good health.


Joseph of Arimathaea’s Tomb.

In the year 1345 Edward III, king of England, gave permission to one John Bloom of London, to dig for the body of Joseph of Arimathaea. Up to this time the grave had been undisturbed. John Bloom had to obtain permission from the Abbot and monks at Glastonbury Abbey and also from the Glastonbury Community. Permission was granted and apparently the remains of Joseph were found. A monk, R. de Boston, from his Lincolnshire Monastery, recorded the following: "The bodies of Joseph of Arimathaea and his companions were found in Glastonbury."

Joseph’s bones were placed in a silver casket which was then placed into a stone sarcophagus which in turn was placed at the east end of the crypt under Mary’s Chapel. From then on the chapel was often referred to as Joseph’s Chapel, as well. Originally the crypt was reached by a staircase that passed the ancient Norman well of Joseph and this is purported to be near where John Bloom actually found the tomb of Joseph. On visiting the Abbey now, you can go into the Joseph’s Chapel and actually climb what is left of the original staircase by the well and emerge on the outside of the building.

Well-substantiated ancient records tell of the death and burial of Joseph of Arimathaea at Glastonbury. The epitaph on his tombstone read, "I came to the Britons after I buried the Christ. I taught, I rest." Between 1345 A.D. and 1367 A.D., the body was placed in a silver casket with a beautiful stone sarcophagus, which was still in position in the year 1662 A.D. By putting Joseph’s bones into a silver casket they could be easily removed and shown to the many pagan, so-called "Christian" pilgrims who came to the abbey. It would appear; from several historical documents; that the stone sarcophagus of Joseph of Arimathaea was still in place, in Joseph’s Chapel, as late as 1661, when the Joseph chapel containing it had become partially ruined.

One John Ray records that on 22nd June 1661; "we saw Joseph of Arimathaea’s tomb and chapel at the end of the Church." Later, in the same year, the same man returned to Glastonbury and records seeing the sarcophagus of Joseph in the ruined Chapel. John Ray was afraid that there might be another wave of Puritanical fanaticism such as had almost totally destroyed the original Thorn Tree, and fearing that Joseph’s tomb might be desecrated, he removed it secretly and buried it, unmarked, in the church yard adjoining the east end of Mary’s chapel. Saying that the initials J.A. carved on it stood for John Allen concealed its identity. Thus it escaped destruction.
It was in 1928 that the Rev Lionel Smithett Lewis (late Vicar of Glastonbury) accidentally stumbled, quite literally, on a corner of the sarcophagus in the graveyard. The stone sarcophagus now sits under the Arthurian window, in the north transept of the ancient Katherine’s Chapel in the Parish Church of John the Baptist, in the High Street of Glastonbury. Its construction indicates it was made to fit the silver casket. It bears the initials J.A., with a caduceus between the initials. The caduceus, a winged staff with two serpents twined around it, is used today as the emblem of physicians. Originally it was the badge of Mercury, the "messenger" of the gods. Even today it has been assimilated into the symbolism of some Christian churches. In our own times, the patriarchs of the eastern churches have a caduceus, not a crozier, carried before them in official processions. It was an official badge, which would not have been put on a mere common person’s grave.

The silver casket holding the bones of Joseph of Arimathaea was never found.




Therefore we see that not only ancient legends and ancient historical records, but the official acts and records of the kings of the Middle Ages, have recognized the close connection of Joseph of Arimathaea, the great-uncle of Jesus, with Glastonbury and Cornwall in Britain. All of these lend strong support to the ancient legends and records of these places that it was here that Jesus spent the missing years of his life, which the Bible does not account for. Where else would we expect him to go, but to what was to become the principal home of his own British people – the House of Israel.

Given the principle of Ockham’s Razor: that, all things being equal, the simplest explanation is usually the right (correct) one. Does William Blake’s question still seem ridiculous to you? I hope not.

JAH.
 






None of you

Established
Joined
Jan 17, 2020
Messages
133
Ancient records tell of the original building being preserved by a shell built around it, of boards, covered with lead. Later a stone building was erected, enclosing the earlier ones. David erected a large stone church as an addition to this in 546 A.D. A record he made of this on a bronze tablet was still in place at the time of the seizure and dissolution of the monastery, under orders from king Henry VIII.
Absolutely impressive. Thank you for sharing that report with us. It is by far the most plausible account of probable historical events I have ever read. What I don't understand is, which David is meant here, please?
 






Top