Trump Presenting Peace Plan To Israeli Leaders

rainerann

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I say that Abbas supports terror because he does. His support of terror, and the use of terror by Hamas, is the exact reason why Israel needs military authority over the Palestinians in the first place.



They commit a war crime every time they launch an unguided explosive at Israeli civilians, and they've been launching them for the past four days. That's not reasonable. And if they want independence, why do they keep turning it down? Name one other independence movement in history that has turned down the offer of their own state because the borders weren't quite to their liking? How do you defend their quest for a state, when the only apparent goal has been prolonging the Palestinian time without one? Why on earth has it taken so long for people to admit that they aren't serious about getting a state, and never have been?



Technically, the Palestinians have had two elections in the last 70 years. In 2005, they elected Abbas to the four-year term that he is currently a decade and a half into, and in 2006, Hamas won the legislative elections, but Abbas dismissed their government, leading them to take over Gaza. There is nothing civilized or democratic about an electoral process that's used only once every 70 years, and whose chief purpose seems to be installing well-known terrorists as rulers for life. I don't believe for a second that all Palestinians support terror, but you can't really believe that the Palestinians have free elections, or that their leaders aren't terrorists. Can you?



Here is a link to the White House page linking to statements from UAE, Saudi Arabia, Morocco, Qatar and Bahrain, publicly voicing their support for a deal, and when I say a deal, I mean, if you read their language, it sounds like they will support any deal, at this point. The point is, those are five Arab nations that are openly recognizing Israel as a legitimate state. And as I've been pointing out, the mood in the Middle East is not nearly as anti-Israel as it once was. You can be sure Egypt and other countries are sending clear messages to the Palestinians, even if they're not saying it openly.

As I've been saying, the plan is the last one like this we'll ever see, and the Palestinians should take it. It's obvious that it's a way for Arab countries to wash their hands of the Palestinian issue, and let Israel do what it needs to do for it's own security. It's been an expensive waste of time for the Arab world, and now it's getting in the way of prosperity.

My assessment of this isn't gloating or wishful thinking. This is what I actually believe is going on, based on what I know, and what I see happening.
yeah, I don’t think the Arab countries were too happy with the plan once it was released.

“The Arab League's head, Ahmed Aboul-Gheit, said the proposal revealed a "sharp turn" in the long-standing US foreign policy regarding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

"This turn does not help achieve peace and a just solution," he declared.

The Arab League's final communique described the deal as "a new setback for the three-decade peace efforts".

It said Arab foreign ministers "reject the US, Israeli deal of the century because it did not meet the minimum rights and aspirations of the Palestinian people."

Whether they were hopeful that there would be a legitimate plan before it was released or not, they seem to recognize that this is not the deal of the century for Palestine. So bummer for trump. It sounds more like he ticked them off again rather than helping the cause.

abc.net.au/news/2020-02-02/arab-league-holds-emergency-meeting-over-trump-peace-plan/11921352?pfmredir=sm

there is also nothing that you could say that will justify Israeli military supervision over the area. They deserve sovereignty period. Palestinian sovereignty does not infringe on Israel’s ability to create a process for dealing with terrorism.

It really kind of sickens me to think that there are real people out there who support such a notion. The only reason Israel needs a provision like this is because they are actively pushing their boundaries out into areas that have not legally belonged to them before. That is why they need supervisory military control included in a peace deal with Palestine and not with Egypt. It has nothing to do with any kind of conflict that they have experienced as neighboring nations in the past and entirely to do with the fact that Israel will never get any support for any kind of continued expansion in the area unless they are able to legitimize occupying areas that are presently considered illegal.

Israel needs a plan that supports the annexation and gives them military authority over the people that they took this area from, so that in the future, they will have the opportunity for further expansion.

there is nothing in this plan that prevents future expansion, but the international perspective will not be a favorable one unless they can annex the land they are occupying now. Israel is presently going in this direction and the peace plan would grease their way into this reality with less questions from the international community.

the Palestinians did the right thing. Israel will continue to show their true colors to the world and whether the Arab world was hopeful in the beginning, they seem to be able to see that this plan for peace was deceptive. This plan was more like a metaphorical inchworm working towards the larger vision of greater Israel. It was not a plan for peace.
 






rainerann

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As the world digested the details from the Middle East peace plan announced by Donald Trump on Tuesday, responses from the region ranged from optimism to outright anger.
Here are the key responses to the plan:

JORDAN
“Jordan supports every genuine effort aimed at achieving just and comprehensive peace that people will accept," Foreign Minister Ayman Safadi said, adding that the only path to a comprehensive and lasting peace was the establishment of an independent Palestinian state based on 1967 lines and with East Jerusalem as its capital.

EGYPT
The Egyptian Foreign Ministry issued a statement favoring a solution that restores “all the legitimate rights” of the Palestinian people through establishing an “independent and sovereign state on the occupied Palestinian territories.” Egypt said it appreciates US efforts to resolve the conflict, and urged Israelis and Palestinians to “carefully study” the Mideast peace plan.

UAE
The UAE’s Ambassador to Washington issued a statement affirming the belief in the possibility of a “lasting peace and genuine coexistence”, stating that “the peace plan announced today offers an important starting point for a return to negotiations within a U.S-led international framework.”

UNITED NATIONS:
U.N. Secretary-General Antonio Guterres says the United Nations remains committed to realizing the vision of two states “living side by side in peace and security.” A spokesperson reaffirmed the UN position on the illegality of Israeli settlements in the West Bank and called for a solution based on the pre-1967 borders.

EUROPEAN UNION:
High Representative Josep Borrell said the EU will “study and assess the proposals”, adding that this will be done on the basis of the established EU position. This position respects all relevant UN resolutions and takes into account the legitimate aspirations of both the Palestinians and the Israelis. Most European capitals have expressed support for the negotiated solution.

UK
"Only the leaders of Israel and the Palestinian territories can determine whether these proposals can meet the needs and aspirations of the people they represent," Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab said. "We encourage them to give these plans genuine and fair consideration, and explore whether they might prove a first step on the road back to negotiations."

RUSSIA
"We must enter direct negotiations to reach a mutually acceptable compromise. We do not know if the American proposal is mutually acceptable or not. We must wait for the reaction of the parties," Deputy Foreign Minister Mikhail Bogdanov said.

IRAN
The shameful peace plan imposed by America on the Palestinians is the treason of the century and doomed to fail," the foreign ministry said.

TURKEY
The United States' so-called peace plan is stillborn," Turkey's foreign ministry said in a statement. "This is an annexation plan aimed at killing a two-state solution and extorting the Palestinian territory,"


Whether some parties are more impartial than others, no one is cheering for this plan except Israel and trump. Personally I agree with turkey. This is an annexation plan, not a plan for peace.
 






Thunderian

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It really kind of sickens me to think that there are real people out there who support such a notion.
Yeah, funny. I get sick when people support a "liberation" movement that loads explosives onto children's toys and floats them across into civilian areas in the hopes they'll maim or kill some little Jew.

Hamas Terrorists Launch Non-Stop Barrage of Balloon Bombs
Hamas Claims Terror Balloons Can Reach Be'er Sheva
‘Terror balloons’ from Hamas in Gaza land in children’s play area

Soccer ball rigged with explosives found attached to balloons

Image result for hamas terror balloon soccer ball
 






rainerann

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Yeah, funny. I get sick when people support a "liberation" movement that loads explosives onto children's toys and floats them across into civilian areas in the hopes they'll maim or kill some little Jew.

Hamas Terrorists Launch Non-Stop Barrage of Balloon Bombs
Hamas Claims Terror Balloons Can Reach Be'er Sheva
‘Terror balloons’ from Hamas in Gaza land in children’s play area

Soccer ball rigged with explosives found attached to balloons

View attachment 31514
well Maybe if things like this sicken you, then you would see how it would be important to create a legitimate peace plan. Trumps peace plan is a legitimate joke. It reads Almost like he is thinking he is building an add on to Las Vegas or Atlantic City in some places. Maybe he should contract with some showgirls to go support the transition with some entertainment. Or maybe see if he could get the Dallas cowboy cheerleaders to stand at the border cheering for people.

his plan is utter nonsense. That is just a fact. The Palestinians did the right thing by rejecting it.
 






Last edited:

rainerann

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The best thing this peace deal did is provide an opportunity to discuss the subject without so many of the same prepared responses. It just creates a whole new foundation for discussion on the subject. Maybe that is a good thing.

However, on a more serious note, a genuine peace deal for the middle east should center around fair distribution of water rights. Israel should not have sole water distribution rights, which is another thing this plan gives them in relation to Palestine. It is what the 1967 war was all about, to begin with even though different people will say different things about what started this. Either way, water played a significant role and that is how they ended up with the illegal settlements and they really should give back as a result.

The settlements that they are occupying right now, are not really all that much different than the military authority they would have over Palestine under this proposed plan. It is fair to say that if they accepted this plan, all of Palestine would be under occupation. It has literally been 50 years since the 1967 war. Israel should leave the occupied areas. They no longer need to try to protect themselves from a counterattack to this initial conflict.

Palestine is victimized by this conflict and it is evidenced by this plan. No other country in the middle east is vulnerable enough to be offered a peace plan that would give Israel military authority over them. Palestine is a small and vulnerable nation and this plan takes advantage of this reality. A true peace plan would address the water issue in a more diplomatic way and agree to have Israel return Palestine to pre 1967 borders reversing the unnecessary continued occupation. This plan was clearly not about creating peace for Israel and Palestine.
 






Red Sky at Morning

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I just noticed this article:-

Kushner should know that Muslims already pray freely on Temple Mount

https://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Kushner-should-know-that-Muslims-already-pray-freely-on-Temple-Mount-616238

I am sure he does.

The observation just provides a context for his other point (which should follow but presently is not part or the “status quo”):-

“People of every faith should be permitted to pray on the Temple Mount/Haram al-Sharif, in a manner that is fully respectful to their religion, taking into account the times of each religion’s prayers and holidays, as well as other religious factors.”

Things might change quickly...
 






weskrongden

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I say that Abbas supports terror because he does. His support of terror, and the use of terror by Hamas, is the exact reason why Israel needs military authority over the Palestinians in the first place.



They commit a war crime every time they launch an unguided explosive at Israeli civilians, and they've been launching them for the past four days. That's not reasonable. And if they want independence, why do they keep turning it down? Name one other independence movement in history that has turned down the offer of their own state because the borders weren't quite to their liking? How do you defend their quest for a state, when the only apparent goal has been prolonging the Palestinian time without one? Why on earth has it taken so long for people to admit that they aren't serious about getting a state, and never have been?



Technically, the Palestinians have had two elections in the last 70 years. In 2005, they elected Abbas to the four-year term that he is currently a decade and a half into, and in 2006, Hamas won the legislative elections, but Abbas dismissed their government, leading them to take over Gaza. There is nothing civilized or democratic about an electoral process that's used only once every 70 years, and whose chief purpose seems to be installing well-known terrorists as rulers for life. I don't believe for a second that all Palestinians support terror, but you can't really believe that the Palestinians have free elections, or that their leaders aren't terrorists. Can you?



Here is a link to the White House page linking to statements from UAE, Saudi Arabia, Morocco, Qatar and Bahrain, publicly voicing their support for a deal, and when I say a deal, I mean, if you read their language, it sounds like they will support any deal, at this point. The point is, those are five Arab nations that are openly recognizing Israel as a legitimate state. And as I've been pointing out, the mood in the Middle East is not nearly as anti-Israel as it once was. You can be sure Egypt and other countries are sending clear messages to the Palestinians, even if they're not saying it openly.

As I've been saying, the plan is the last one like this we'll ever see, and the Palestinians should take it. It's obvious that it's a way for Arab countries to wash their hands of the Palestinian issue, and let Israel do what it needs to do for it's own security. It's been an expensive waste of time for the Arab world, and now it's getting in the way of prosperity.

My assessment of this isn't gloating or wishful thinking. This is what I actually believe is going on, based on what I know, and what I see happening.
They aren't given a state in this deal for the 100th time LOL. It's everything Israel wants now for a state with LIMITED sovereignty after an INDEFINITE period of time. And if they get one, Israel has the right to take it over at any moment. In general deals that say, give me everything I want now and I might give you what you want later are usually pretty shit.

I see you mentioned the 1967 War and Golan below. What about the terrorist attack on the USS Liberty? We should the US support Israel's spoils of that war when they attacked us?
 






Thunderian

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What about the terrorist attack on the USS Liberty? We should the US support Israel's spoils of that war when they attacked us?
Yes, that one thing that happened 50 years ago should be used to judge everything Israel has done before and since.

34 Americans died in the Liberty attack, which the US seems to have gotten over. At least twice as many Americans have been killed by Palestinian terror attacks, so what was your point again?
 






weskrongden

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Yes, that one thing that happened 50 years ago should be used to judge everything Israel has done before and since.

34 Americans died in the Liberty attack, which the US seems to have gotten over. At least twice as many Americans have been killed by Palestinian terror attacks, so what was your point again?
Which ones?
 






DavidSon

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well Maybe if things like this sicken you, then you would see how it would be important to create a legitimate peace plan. Trumps peace plan is a legitimate joke. It reads Almost like he is thinking he is building an add on to Las Vegas or Atlantic City in some places. Maybe he should contract with some showgirls to go support the transition with some entertainment. Or maybe see if he could get the Dallas cowboy cheerleaders to stand at the border cheering for people.

his plan is utter nonsense. That is just a fact. The Palestinians did the right thing by rejecting it.
We should know as well the Israeli claims of unguided rockets entering their space are not verified. The IDF says these rockets are hitting open fields(?) or intercepted by their Iron Dome anti-missile shields (which a former IDF specialist says doesn't actually exist). It's the same story for years: primitive, unguided rockets and incendiary balloons, that hurt no one, elicit the response of the most technologically advanced grade missile strikes on Gaza. Talk about David vs. Goliath...

Hamas denies launching rockets. Just like the attacks on the US sites in Iraq, we have no proof of who is really behind any of these acts. Just look at how the propagandists use these events to legitimize their imbalance response, the objective is more than obvious: perpetual US/Israeli occupation.

And we hear like a broken record, it's all about Israel's security, Israel's security...
 






DavidSon

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"United Nations has rejected US President Donald Trump’s ‘deal of the century’ and reiterated that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict should be solved based on UN resolutions and international law.

In a statement, a spokesperson for the UN Secretary-General, said: “The position of the United Nations on the two-State solution has been defined, throughout the years, by relevant Security Council and General Assembly resolutions by which the Secretariat is bound.”

He added: “The United Nations remains committed to supporting Palestinians and Israelis in resolving the conflict on the basis of United Nations resolutions, international law, and bilateral agreements and realizing the vision of two States – Israel and Palestine – living side by side in peace and security within recognized borders, on the basis of the pre-1967 lines.

Israel will never get away with these crimes.
 






Thunderian

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Mahmoud Abbas: I will not go down in history as the man who sold Jerusalem

https://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Mahmoud-Abbas-I-will-not-go-down-in-history-as-the-man-who-sold-Jerusalem-616138


Palestinian leader Mahmud Abbas cuts all ties with Israel and the US over Donald Trump's latest peace plan



Looks like it’s just more bluster. Ties remain, according to a Palestinian official.

 






Thunderian

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Hamas denies launching rockets.
Except when they claim them. I’m not sure if you’re really this uninformed, or if you think everyone else is.





 






Thunderian

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"United Nations has rejected US President Donald Trump’s ‘deal of the century’ and reiterated that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict should be solved based on UN resolutions and international law.

In a statement, a spokesperson for the UN Secretary-General, said: “The position of the United Nations on the two-State solution has been defined, throughout the years, by relevant Security Council and General Assembly resolutions by which the Secretariat is bound.”

He added: “The United Nations remains committed to supporting Palestinians and Israelis in resolving the conflict on the basis of United Nations resolutions, international law, and bilateral agreements and realizing the vision of two States – Israel and Palestine – living side by side in peace and security within recognized borders, on the basis of the pre-1967 lines.

Israel will never get away with these crimes.
The UN has nothing to do with this deal. Who cares what they think?
 






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