Trump Presenting Peace Plan To Israeli Leaders

DesertRose

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@Thunderian they can take things by force but no Muslims are okay with any of this so you can keep dreaming.
Negotiating from a position of weakness is not negotiating it is theft.
So you can get lost with your ideas, sentiments and claptrap.
We do not recognize these unjust deals and never will.
They can steal it inch by inch and God willing after many years Muslims will take it back inch by inch because your precious Israel does not allow for a fair 2 state solution nor have they ever wanted peace.
For us this return of Jerusalem is a certainty and since this is the news forum I will direct you to number 49 in the resource below. Now you will say you do not believe in this but we do. So let us see how things work out in the future. They can plot all they want but their control is limited and dependent on events out of their control.


@Pan I am zero chill about antisemitism and your jokes tread on that ground, if I did not know better I would think you are Israeli hasbara looking under the beds for anti-semites who would find your jokes funny.
Your tactics are not helpful to the Palestinian cause. Palestinians know their concerns are with the unjust Israeli government and those that support it whether Christian, Muslim or Jew.
As @Stephania wrote there are Jewish people who stand with the Palestinians.
Being an activist in these causes requires being upfront, careful, and transparent, because these Zios are brash, reckless, deceptive and sketchy. It is not a laughing matter for us.
 






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Awoken2

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@Thunderian they can take things by force but no Muslims are okay with any of this so you can keep dreaming.
Negotiating from a position of weakness is not negotiating it is theft.
So you can get lost with your ideas, sentiments and claptrap.
We do not recognize these unjust deals and never will.
They can steal it inch by inch and God willing after many years Muslims will take it back inch by inch because your precious Israel does not allow for a fair 2 state solution nor have they ever wanted peace.
For us this return of Jerusalem is a certainty and since this is the news forum I will direct you to number 49 in the resource below. Now you will say you do not believe in this but we do. So let us see how things work out in the future. They can plot all they want but their control is limited and dependent on events out of their control.


@Pan I am zero chill about antisemitism and your jokes tread on that ground, if I did not know better I would think you are Israeli hasbara looking under the beds for anti-semites who would find your jokes funny.
Your tactics are not helpful to the Palestinian cause. Palestinians know their concerns are with the unjust Israeli government and those that support it whether Christian, Muslim or Jew.
As @Stephania wrote there are Jewish people who stand with the Palestinians.
Being an activist in these causes requires being upfront, careful, and transparent, because these Zios are brash, reckless, deceptive and sketchy. It is not a laughing matter for us.
I do undeserved your viewpoint here DR but the way I'm reading it is Pan is just using the same contempt for the Zionist shills who reside here that they use for anybody who tries to expose them.

I do agree that the subject matter is not of a humorous nature but these people need calling out.
 






Helioform

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What even the mainstream press is reporting is that the Palestinians will get the least desirable land which is mainly walled into open air prisons, connected by a serious of checkpointed roads and TUNNELS. Thats their big improvement?
Link? I could find no such thing in the MSM. The only mention of tunnels is that the territories will be linked by tunnels. And I have said it's more of a path to a peace plan than a plan itself. There is also a plan for economic improvement. But the Palestinians are boycotting Trump because he moved the embassy to Jerusalem. They have proved that they believe only that this is a conspiracy instead of trying to better their condition.
 






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rainerann

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The economic aspect of the plan is probably the worst and most unnecessary aspect of it.

"The State of Israel will allow the State of Palestine to develop a resort area in the North of the Dead Sea without prejudice to the State of Israel’s sovereignty at such location, including, without limitation, Israel’s sovereignty to the shoreline. The presence of the Palestinian resort area along the coast of the Dead Sea will not alter the distribution arrangements between the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and the State of Israel for natural resources in the Dead Sea. The State of Israel and the State of Palestine will establish a road that will allow the Palestinians to travel from the State of Palestine to this resort area, subject to Israeli security considerations.”

This part especially makes the plan sounds like Trumps vision to have the Palestinians accept a franchisable version of their nation. In reality, a plan for peace between Palestine and Israel does not need to include economic discussion like this at all.

the only thing this plan should include is how the Palestinians will be able to experience independence and an absence of restrictions imposed by Israel. That is enough to give them an opportunity to improve their economy
 






rainerann

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I understand what you’re saying, but the Palestinians have done a pretty good job of convincing everyone that they are, in fact, terrorists. Unless you consider their leadership until now just a bunch of peace-loving guys who were forced by the occupation into blowing up school buses and cafes, and the like, Palestinians haven’t yet shown they can be a part of the civilized world.

There needs to be some sort of show of renunciation of terror, and an inclination to deal with Israel as one state who wants peace deals with a state they want peace with. How can Hamas pretend that they, and the Palestinians they claim to represent, really want peace, when they are launching terror attacks on Israeli civilians as we speak? How can Abbas say he wants peace when he’s directly supporting terrorism against Israel himself?

We need to stop pretending that the Palestinians have as much leverage as they’ve been treated as having, because they no longer do, or that they can be viewed as a cooperative partner in any kind of peace process. In stark contrast to what has historically been the case, they will be LUCKY if they get a state now. This deal will be imposed on them, whether they like it or not, and if you doubt this, look at the list of countries that support it.

As I’ve been saying, the game is over. The Palestinians don’t have anyone to play with anymore, and the countries that own the equipment, and control the playing field, are in the parking lot, honking.

No, if you think the Palestinians have only ever been seeking their own state to live peaceably alongside Israel in, and only committed terror in response to the injustice of a brutal Israeli occupation, it’s not fair.

And no, if you think that Israel has every right to the land they hold now, plus a lot more, and that they’ve done an amazing and admirable job building a world-class state, while under constant attack from Palestinian terrorists around them, and in their midst, it’s not fair, either.

But everyone except the Palestinians now wants peace, and so this is how it’s going to happen, whether the peace-loving Palestinians want it to, or not.

Their choice is to either continue to suffer the status quo, but now without the support, read that cash, of much of the Arab world, or to try and act like civilized human beings, and cash in with a ready-made and fully funded state. There is also no reason to think that, if the Palestinians show they can build a civilized country, that they can’t soon enough take full military control of their state, too.

But continued terror attacks on their innocent neighbours don’t make a great case for that just yet.
I don't really see how you can say that Abbas is supporting terrorism when you are supporting Israel having military authority over their nation. There is a reasonable argument to be made that they are fighting for their own independence.

There is also no reason that the plan cannot address the potential of terrorism without making is the reason for justifying supervisory military control over Palestine. Within your whole post, you are identifying Palestinians as terrorists. I will say again, the plan distinguishes acts of terrorism. The Palestinians who are being given this agreement are not considered terrorists and should not be treated as such.

Technically, the Palestinians have been using an electoral process for almost 30 years, so your claim that they have not proven they want to be part of the civilized world is unfounded as well. Internal challenges within a legislative process do not legitimize supervisory military control especially within a framework of a plan considered capable to create peace with neighboring countries.

There is also no provision for them to gain independence from the military control of Israel, and let's be honest, the only reason they really need military control over Palestine is that Israel is seeking to legitimize residing on land that used to belong to them with the use of force when necessary. That is why Israel needs supervisory military control over them and doesn't need supervisory military control when it came to making an agreement for peace with Egypt. You can try to bolster your argument with the reality of a radical group like Hamas, but that is still going to sound like crap to me.

Every nation has its own radical groups. That is just a fact of life. It will never be a justification for supervisory military control over another nation. I do not support centralizing governments in any form. This would be an example of centralizing control.

And like I already said, the economic part of this plan is probably the worst part. From an American perspective, I would say that I am someone who supports small business. I like to find and support people who make and create in a more organic way, I guess you could say. This economic plan is a little bit like trying to make Palestine accept a franchise. Palestine is going to become the equivalent of a McDonalds with this plan, and it offends my sense of economics as a result.

So again, the plan should be more neutral and I am also doubting you when you are saying the Arab world is suggesting the Palestinians should take this. I haven't seen anyone saying something like this. I don't see where they have lost all that much support from the Arab world either unless you include countries like Iran. There are articles on how US sanctions prevented them from providing as much support as they had in the past.

It really seems like you are trying to create a false narrative of what is going on.
 






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Truthteller

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You have to give to Isr a el, their borders keeps expanding in a region where most dislike them. Of course this expansion is far from legal and has come at the expense of many wars and the lives of many innocent people. The situation in Gaza is a humanitarian disaster propogated by an atrocious apartheid.
As of late the expansion goes beyond palestinian regions and into Syrian territory of the Golan heights. You can clearly see why Netanyahu pushes for more and more wars in the middle east. War—> instability—> lies and deception in media—>human displacement. Perfect time for expansion for opportunists.

Of course Trump’s plan is a joke. Let’s not forget his close connections with Netanyahu through his de facto right hand advisor Jared Kushner.
 






Helioform

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"I would expect in a few years that the primary internal security would be handled by the Palestinians, that is certainly the aspiration," said Friedman."


So again there is improvement here. Israeli troops patroling the streets would not be unlike the US having troops in Germany during WW2. This is not the same as occupation. It's more of a way to ensure that Israelis will not be attacked by terrorists.
 






weskrongden

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"I would expect in a few years that the primary internal security would be handled by the Palestinians, that is certainly the aspiration," said Friedman."


So again there is improvement here. Israeli troops patroling the streets would not be unlike the US having troops in Germany during WW2. This is not the same as occupation. It's more of a way to ensure that Israelis will not be attacked by terrorists.
I don't believe that you aren't Jewish. All you do is shill for them
 






Helioform

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I wonder... are there any truly neutral observers?
I was wondering the same thing. Even the MSM seems to have an opinion on this when they should only report in a neutral manner. Most of the hate for this deal seem to come from people who can't stand Trump. And most of the MSM can't stand him so there you go.
 






rainerann

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"Trump's deal also demanded Israel freezes settlement construction for four years." https://euobserver.com/foreign/147302

I'm still looking for where it says this in the plan because I have seen several articles mention this. At face value, what this appears to say even though no one seems to be saying it, is that Israel is only prevented from building settlements during the first four years of the implementation of this plan. Then, this seems to suggest that there is the potential to begin building new settlements that could be considered illegal in the future after they have been given the settlements that are currently considered illegal according to the current peace plan.

So in ten years, we will be right back where we started with a new peace plan that gives these future illegal settlements to Israel as well. Even though I haven't been able to find where the plan says this, I also haven't been able to find anything that states that Israel shall adhere to these boundaries and shall not try to expand in the future, which is another reason this plan should be opposed.

It is also the reason that this plan is clearly beneficial to Netanyahu and appears to benefit him greatly considering he has been accused of bribery and corruption in recent years. There are multiple articles talking about this peace plan in relation to Netanyahu's push to annex the Jordan Valley over the past year. He was already planning to achieve this with or without the plan. So in some respects, the "peace plan" creates a nice buffer for him to justify his stated intentions of doing this. It is almost like the plan is a mask disguising Netanyahu's political agenda.

This is an article showing that the allocations within the plan are the allocations Netanyahu was already seeking to establish without the plan. https://www.jta.org/2019/09/10/israel/netanyahus-push-to-annex-the-jordan-valley-explained

This is an article discussing how the annexation within the "peace plan" changes the discussion of the endeavor to a degree. There is even someone mentioned in this article who seems to be disappointed that the plan is preventing Netanyahu from immediate annexation to an extent. https://www.timesofisrael.com/annexation-stalled-how-trump-netanyahu-fell-out-of-step-on-core-part-of-deal/

The plan is an overall joke and a terrible deal for the Palestinians. It is really more or less a bribe.
 






weskrongden

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I was wondering the same thing. Even the MSM seems to have an opinion on this when they should only report in a neutral manner. Most of the hate for this deal seem to come from people who can't stand Trump. And most of the MSM can't stand him so there you go.
I'm a Trump voter and a Christian. I don't have any special affection for Palestine. Objectively the deal gives Israel nearly everything it wants in exchange for a possible limited sovereignty state who knows when? A deal written by Kushner and Netanyahu is definitely going to be fair. All those Jewish donors at the press conference were so gleeful because they're really comprimising and giving up a lot.
 






Red Sky at Morning

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Mahmoud Abbas: I will not go down in history as the man who sold Jerusalem

https://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Mahmoud-Abbas-I-will-not-go-down-in-history-as-the-man-who-sold-Jerusalem-616138


Palestinian leader Mahmud Abbas cuts all ties with Israel and the US over Donald Trump's latest peace plan



 






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Vixy

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Honestly, this has me concerned. I know he tried with Jared Kushner and that failed although he claimed "If anybody can solve this, its this guy" IF he should succeed, us christians know what it means.. And I gotta say Trump isnt like any President before him but there are things lacking should he be thought of as the anti you-know-what. Guess we'll see how this pans out... He's saying he's dividing the country to see how it'll work. Thats going against the word of God. "The country shall never be divided"
 






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Thunderian

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I don't really see how you can say that Abbas is supporting terrorism when you are supporting Israel having military authority over their nation.
I say that Abbas supports terror because he does. His support of terror, and the use of terror by Hamas, is the exact reason why Israel needs military authority over the Palestinians in the first place.

There is a reasonable argument to be made that they are fighting for their own independence.
They commit a war crime every time they launch an unguided explosive at Israeli civilians, and they've been launching them for the past four days. That's not reasonable. And if they want independence, why do they keep turning it down? Name one other independence movement in history that has turned down the offer of their own state because the borders weren't quite to their liking? How do you defend their quest for a state, when the only apparent goal has been prolonging the Palestinian time without one? Why on earth has it taken so long for people to admit that they aren't serious about getting a state, and never have been?

There is also no reason that the plan cannot address the potential of terrorism without making is the reason for justifying supervisory military control over Palestine. Within your whole post, you are identifying Palestinians as terrorists. I will say again, the plan distinguishes acts of terrorism. The Palestinians who are being given this agreement are not considered terrorists and should not be treated as such.

Technically, the Palestinians have been using an electoral process for almost 30 years, so your claim that they have not proven they want to be part of the civilized world is unfounded as well. Internal challenges within a legislative process do not legitimize supervisory military control especially within a framework of a plan considered capable to create peace with neighboring countries.
Technically, the Palestinians have had two elections in the last 70 years. In 2005, they elected Abbas to the four-year term that he is currently a decade and a half into, and in 2006, Hamas won the legislative elections, but Abbas dismissed their government, leading them to take over Gaza. There is nothing civilized or democratic about an electoral process that's used only once every 70 years, and whose chief purpose seems to be installing well-known terrorists as rulers for life. I don't believe for a second that all Palestinians support terror, but you can't really believe that the Palestinians have free elections, or that their leaders aren't terrorists. Can you?

So again, the plan should be more neutral and I am also doubting you when you are saying the Arab world is suggesting the Palestinians should take this. I haven't seen anyone saying something like this. I don't see where they have lost all that much support from the Arab world either unless you include countries like Iran. There are articles on how US sanctions prevented them from providing as much support as they had in the past.

It really seems like you are trying to create a false narrative of what is going on.
Here is a link to the White House page linking to statements from UAE, Saudi Arabia, Morocco, Qatar and Bahrain, publicly voicing their support for a deal, and when I say a deal, I mean, if you read their language, it sounds like they will support any deal, at this point. The point is, those are five Arab nations that are openly recognizing Israel as a legitimate state. And as I've been pointing out, the mood in the Middle East is not nearly as anti-Israel as it once was. You can be sure Egypt and other countries are sending clear messages to the Palestinians, even if they're not saying it openly.

As I've been saying, the plan is the last one like this we'll ever see, and the Palestinians should take it. It's obvious that it's a way for Arab countries to wash their hands of the Palestinian issue, and let Israel do what it needs to do for it's own security. It's been an expensive waste of time for the Arab world, and now it's getting in the way of prosperity.

My assessment of this isn't gloating or wishful thinking. This is what I actually believe is going on, based on what I know, and what I see happening.
 






Thunderian

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You have to give to Isr a el, their borders keeps expanding in a region where most dislike them.
How is giving back control of Gaza and the Sinai expanding their borders?

Of course this expansion is far from legal and has come at the expense of many wars and the lives of many innocent people.
Any wars that have resulted in Israel's expansion were not started by Israel.

The situation in Gaza is a humanitarian disaster propogated by an atrocious apartheid.
Yep. People refuse to believe the truth.


An eating contest! By the pool! In Gaza!

As of late the expansion goes beyond palestinian regions and into Syrian territory of the Golan heights.
Of late? Israel won the Golan back in 1967, after being attacked by Syria.
 






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