Trump/Hillary/Clintons/2020/Madness

The Zone

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There seems to be concern about Bernie and Warren explaining how they can finance their goals. Warren seemed to take a firm open borders side and everyone knows if you allow people in and give them the same benefits as our citizens immediately it begs questions. You can paint a pretty picture in thought, but when reality rolls around and people come to the US in droves for benefits straight away, that will collapse the financial structure for all. I think that is why some traditional thinking dems took their shots at the two. I then saw talking heads (liberal types) echoing the same thing with concern to electability. By the end of the tonight, we will know who will stick as if we already don't.
 

ohhi9876

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There seems to be concern about Bernie and Warren explaining how they can finance their goals. Warren seemed to take a firm open borders side and everyone knows if you allow people in and give them the same benefits as our citizens immediately it begs questions. You can paint a pretty picture in thought, but when reality rolls around and people come to the US in droves for benefits straight away, that will collapse the financial structure for all. I think that is why some traditional thinking dems took their shots at the two. I then saw talking heads (liberal types) echoing the same thing with concern to electability. By the end of the night, we will know who will stick as if we already don't.
right
i think biden and harris will point this out tonight about costs (trying to be more moderate) - maybe they will team up and harris will accept vp?

i just do not see how open borders and amnestiy and free healthcare for current non-citizens comes close to winning a general election
- that will be more of a T landslide....

makes no sense. moderate middle class and older voters epecailly will not get any of those views...
 

justjess

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i did have technical difficulties during the immigration portion and missed sanders completely but i didnt hear warren call for open borders
 

ohhi9876

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"Montana Gov. Steve Bullock tried to pump the brakes Tuesday night after watching the more progressive Democrats stake out left-leaning territory on border crossings, health care for undocumented immigrants and “Medicare for All” over three debates.
“Look, I think this is part of the discussion that shows how often these debates are detached from people's lives,” said Bullock, who has won three statewide elections in Donald Trump territory. “We got a hundred thousand people showing up at the border right now. If we decriminalize entry, if we give health care to everyone, we'll have multiples of that.”"

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/07/31/democratic-debate-2019-detroit-moderates-1441791
 

The Zone

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I currently think Biden is the front runner and having a woman of color as a running mate would bolster him immensely. I just can't see the party moving all the way left and win this time even with Trump being his own worst enemy, but there is a lot of time between now and election day and there will be wild swings. I do not think Trump is a lock in any way despite what some may want you to think.

Jess, Warren said in so many words that she was for open borders if you read between the lines. She had to be squelched a lot or talking over her time. It is the Medicare for all thing which is concerning to some that I viewed and again, I watched the liberal perspective.

I think some of the newcomers did well. Williamson was the most searched candidate per Google if you can trust them.
 

ohhi9876

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I currently think Biden is the front runner and having a woman of color as a running mate would bolster him immensely. I just can't see the party moving all the way left and win this time even with Trump being his own worst enemy, but there is a lot of time between now and election day and there will be wild swings. I do not think Trump is a lock in any way despite what some may want you to think.

Jess, Warren said in so many words that she was for open borders if you read between the lines. She had to be squelched a lot or talking over her time. It is the Medicare for all thing which is concerning to some that I viewed and again, I watched the liberal perspective.

I think some of the newcomers did well. Williamson was the most searched candidate per Google if you can trust them.
drudge is heavily pushing williamson - which is strange... he claims she won the debate in his poll at 43%
 

justjess

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I currently think Biden is the front runner and having a woman of color as a running mate would bolster him immensely. I just can't see the party moving all the way left and win this time even with Trump being his own worst enemy, but there is a lot of time between now and election day and there will be wild swings. I do not think Trump is a lock in any way despite what some may want you to think.

Jess, Warren said in so many words that she was for open borders if you read between the lines. She had to be squelched a lot or talking over her time. It is the Medicare for all thing which is concerning to some that I viewed and again, I watched the liberal perspective.
The questions about Medicare for all were purposely misleading and antagonistic. Which both warren and sanders tried to call them out on but it is what it is...

Here’s the thing - yes taxes will go up on the middle class. But the amount of money they will be spending is LESS. I don’t know why it matters if it’s a tax or a payment to a private company.. no matter where the money goes my only concern is that it’s less of my money and either the same or better care.

My mom is on Medicare and she has secondary private insurance - Medicare costs her $130/month, her secondary insurance $250/month and she still has to pay $800 every 90 days for just one of her medications. That’s insane. It’s bleeding her dry. Yet when you try to talk to her about Medicare for all and even sit with her and run the numbers and show her how much she’d save she isn’t on board or doesn’t get it. I’m not sure what drives that... and for any improvement in this mess of a system we have we need to figure that out.

I suspect it’s fear of the unknown. Change is scary. Even if it’s good. There’s a psychological term for this that I’m entirely blanking on right now... but we need to figure out how to overcome that. I am 100% supportive of Medicare for all, but I can see the argument in an incremental transition that at first just opens a public option so people can see for themselves how much money they’d save and it would no longer be an unknown. I don’t think the issue is choice - we want to choose our medical providers but not too many of us care what name our hmo is so long as our needs are getting met and we can see the doctors we want.

But I do have concerns that trying to do it incrementally will get in the way of the ultimate goal of making healthcare affordable - if everyone’s not on the government plan the governments ability to negotiate prices is limited (how severely limited depends on how many choose it). At that point doctors and hospitals can just choose not to participate with the government insurance and the whole thing falls apart - I suspect the people pushing for this “moderate” approach who are getting all these big donations from pharmaceutical and insurance companies are banking on that.

All I heard her say - and again I will repeat I had technical difficulties so I could have missed something or a lot of things - is that we need border security but we also have to decriminalize (it only recently became criminalized). I understand the reasons for both. I understand the ideological impetus behind both.

For someone who truly believes health care is a right denying said health care to anyone for any reason is a moral issue.
 

justjess

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Oh I also am starting to really be fond of Williamson. I loved how she talked about publicly funding elections. She has said a couple other things that were really on point
 
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I like Bill, hope he goes hard after Joe and Kamala

Bennet is boring

Inslee seems solid

Why the hell is Gillibrand blinking so much?

Tulsi, we get it you’re in the military

Castro, forgettable

Yang, his UBI is a Trojan horse to slash the safety net , he made a good case for it tho, seems like he has some fans

Heckling??? Could anyone here what they were saying?

Booker is booker, nothing new

Kamala is a cop

Biden seems more composed but you have to be more than just not Trump

More to come...
 
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Give em hell Bill!

Kamala’s health plan sucks. Ten years is too long. Of course Biden’s sucks too but I hope they tear each other down, only helps Sanders and Warren
 
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Way different than last nights debate.

Biden is crashing hard, Harris is dangerous as hell, Bill is surprisingly good ( apparently the heckling was directed towards him ) Bennet and Gillibrand entirely forgettable

Tulsi and Inslee get no time
 

Aero

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Yeah, this debate isn't going how they wanted either.

Also, think Tulsi Gabbard looked good. Of course, I tuned in a little late. I've only seen her talk once.
 
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Tulsi bringing up Harris’ evil prosecutorial ways was awesome that’s what I like to see.

Biden is going to crash but Harris is pure evil, she scares me to be honest.
 

ohhi9876

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I like Bill, hope he goes hard after Joe and Kamala

Bennet is boring

Inslee seems solid

Why the hell is Gillibrand blinking so much?

Tulsi, we get it you’re in the military

Castro, forgettable

Yang, his UBI is a Trojan horse to slash the safety net , he made a good case for it tho, seems like he has some fans

Heckling??? Could anyone here what they were saying?

Booker is booker, nothing new

Kamala is a cop

Biden seems more composed but you have to be more than just not Trump

More to come...

ummm bennet is high!
 
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