Trump dumps Iran deal

Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
2,668
Likes
3,408
#81
It wasn't a treaty, correct. But it was an internationally recognised agreement to which the United States was a signatory.
It wasn't signed by either side. As I said, it was presented to the UN by Obama and ratified there, but never signed or ratified by the US or Iran.

And it was binding only in the sense that civilised nations tend to hold themselves to their agreed obligations in case their friends, partners and enemies regard them as dubious opportunists that renege on their promises and operate outside the rule (and spirit) of the law.
Nothing is stopping the US from withdrawing from the agreement but its a bad idea. You can sleep with your wife's sister, there is nothing stopping you from doing that, but its a bad idea, is morally reprehensible, your wife will not like it and it will definitely affect your family life !?
You can't be serious. What is so sacred about this deal that you would use such a strange analogy? Did you hear that Iran is threatening to release the names of American and European officials who took bribes so the Iran deal would pass? So this deal was lied about, never ratified or signed, people had to be bribed to ensure it's acceptance, and Iran was not even in compliance with it anyway, but you're still saying it's such an important agreement that American withdrawal means we're all doomed.

Do you recognise this ailment? Its called imperial hubris and is a well known symptom of empires that have entered senile decline. 'Those whom the Gods would destroy, first make mad' . . . . . .
I'm not American, and I have no imperial hubris myself. America is declining, but even in this state, it's still mightier than any other nation on earth. If it chooses to use it's economic might in this situation, it will be hard to resist it.

Are you even aware of the many Sunnis in Yemen that are part of the Houthi Shia militias?
Or that the Sunni clerics that have been imprisoned in Saudi Arabia for condemning the killing of innocent civilians in Yemen by Riyadh's indiscriminate bombing of Yemen !?

Or the fact that Sunnis in Iraq have offered brigades to defend civilians in Yemen?

Or that Sunni states like Turkey and Pakistan oppose the isolation and sanctions on Iran?

Such things, presumably, complicate your binary world view and the reality of the situation in the Middle East?
Fine, I have it all wrong. Everyone loves Iran and I don't know what I'm talking about.

Its not an argument for maintaining a "useless" deal, but, it is an argument against unilaterally withdrawing from an international agreement and the motherload of consequences that are likely to follow from it.
Moreover, if America can depart from one international agreement, why can't it depart from a second, third or fourth one !?
I still have to wonder what is so precious about this deal that withdrawing from it will apparently unleash hell. Can you explain what you're all so afraid of?

Trump promised when he was campaigning that he would withdraw from the deal, and now he's done it. He hasn't promised to withdraw from any other deals, other than NAFTA, so I don't think anyone needs to be concerned that this will start an avalanche.
 





Joined
Mar 16, 2017
Messages
2,152
Likes
4,591
#82
NAFTA, Paris climate accords, Iran... he’s reneged on numerous campaign promises as well (draining the swamp, regulating pharmaceuticals etc) trumps word literally means nothing and never has, America doesn’t need to inherit his reputation of a sheista business conman. I’m not sure why your so focused on whether this was actually signed, it was a deal we made regardless with the understanding we were going to be held to it.

You are going really far out of your way to make this okay, when it’s not.
 





Joined
Mar 27, 2017
Messages
2,368
Likes
5,832
#84
regulating pharmaceuticals
Trump Reneged on Pledge to Lower Drug Prices
http://stephenlendman.org/2018/05/trump-reneged-on-pledge-to-lower-drug-prices/

Trump Vows to Stop Foreign Gov'ts From 'Extorting' Low Prices From US Drug Firms
https://sputniknews.com/us/201805111064375329-trump-prices-drugs-us/
 





Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
2,668
Likes
3,408
#86
NAFTA, Paris climate accords, Iran... he’s reneged on numerous campaign promises as well (draining the swamp, regulating pharmaceuticals etc) trumps word literally means nothing and never has, America doesn’t need to inherit his reputation of a sheista business conman. I’m not sure why your so focused on whether this was actually signed, it was a deal we made regardless with the understanding we were going to be held to it.

You are going really far out of your way to make this okay, when it’s not.
The Paris climate accords would have been a disaster for the United States, with the expected net gain of very little, in terms of benefit to the environment. It was as much a bag of farts as the Iran deal was.

Globalist elites have been trying to destroy America for a long time. The Paris and Iran deals were useless, and bad for America. Trump is not the first person to say this, he's just the first person in power to do something about it.

What was the big, sacred Iran deal supposed to accomplish, and why will the withdrawal of the United States from it be the end of the world?
 





Joined
May 3, 2018
Messages
656
Likes
429
#88
The main reason why Iran deal was dumped at this time was to ensure there would be no deal with North Korea. After seeing what happened to Iran, North Korea will not accept a denuclearization deal with the US at their conditions. Therefore, North Korea will be blaimed for rejecting the deal. But nobody wanted the deal to start with. Just geopolitical games.
 





Joined
Mar 18, 2017
Messages
2,512
Likes
4,946
#90
Ooookaaaay.

I wonder...
What exactly are you doing on a Truther forum if you aren't willing to be confronted by the truth?
Do you just want to see and accept some truths and completely shut out other truths?

I guess I have rattled your cage enough to elicit that kind of response. And Iam still awaiting an answer to the question I posed to you in the IDF sniper thread. (If you read the Luntz document)
 





Golden Age

Established
Joined
Apr 9, 2018
Messages
162
Likes
396
#92
@Thunderian: "It wasn't signed by either side. As I said, it was presented to the UN by Obama and ratified there, but never signed or ratified by the US or Iran"
Here is a picture of the front cover of the JCPOA document that shows the signatures of the lead negotiators from each participant country. For your relevance, note the scribble of the US Secretary of State (John Kerry) and that of his Iranian counterpart Javad Zarif:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Comprehensive_Plan_of_Action#/media/File:JCPOA_Signatures.png
I accept that the Iran nuclear deal is not a treaty or an executive agreement. It is, nevertheless, an important political agreement to which Washington committed itself to in 2015.

@Thunderian: "You can't be serious. What is so sacred about this deal that you would use such a strange analogy? Did you hear that Iran is threatening to release the names of American and European officials who took bribes so the Iran deal would pass? So this deal was lied about, never ratified or signed, people had to be bribed to ensure it's acceptance, and Iran was not even in compliance with it anyway, but you're still saying it's such an important agreement that American withdrawal means we're all doomed."
I admit the analogy is outlandish, but, doesn't it fit the situation!?
Are there no [real life] consequences for the United States decision to depart from an agreement that has the support of her nearest allies and partners?
German Foreign Minister Heiko Maas has stated that Berlin is going to change its stance towards Washington for reneging on the Iran nuclear deal. His deputy in the German Foreign Ministry stated that there would be "grave long-term consequences for our relations". This is German understatement at its finest and the US State Department had better pay attention.
The French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire talked about defending "economic sovereignty" and stated that the EU was not a "vassal" of the United States !?
Britain's Prime Minister was less strident, but, made it clear that London fully supports the Iran nuclear deal. I don't share your optimism that the EU will roll over and follow Washington out of this deal. Not when China, Russia and the UN continue to endorse it. With regards to the latter, the JCPOA had the best possible 'ratification' process of any agreement in recent history, namely, that it was incorporated into international law when every member of the Security Council voted to recognise its provisions on 20th July 2015.

The only authority that has the responsibility, credibility and direct information (from inspectors on the ground) about the compliance of Iran with the provisions of JCPOA is the IAEA, (International Atomic Energy Agency). Its Director General Yukiya Amano stated in March that Iran was in compliance with its obligations under the agreement. If Israel has intelligence indicating matters are otherwise, Tel Aviv should forward that information to the IAEA for investigation, (instead of providing PM Netanyahu an opportunity to undertake one of his demented theatrical performances about the supposed menace of Tehran) !?

@Thunderian: "I'm not American, and I have no imperial hubris myself. America is declining, but even in this state, it's still mightier than any other nation on earth. If it chooses to use it's economic might in this situation, it will be hard to resist it"
History indicates that its a terrible sign when an imperial champion has to rely on physical coercion to achieve its political objectives. 'Soft Power' (economic, cultural, diplomatic and educational) influences are indicative of real underlying strengths. Washington has, effectively, blown most - if not all - of these.
One could make the case that the US economy is an amalgam of misrepresented and misconstrued data that bears little resemblance to the reality of its economic performance. Therefore, the only credible strength underpinning the American economy is its military (and nuclear) arsenal!?
Take the military out of the equation and you have a bankrupt American Republic that doesn't even enjoy the benefit of producing its own bananas!?

@Thunderian: "Fine, I have it all wrong. Everyone loves Iran and I don't know what I'm talking about"
Don't be like that.
I am always charmed and delighted to read your comments and the threads you post. In turn, i try to comment and participate in all of them. The fact that we don't agree on some issues should be a source of encouragement to rethink our own views, articulate better arguments and - where we get things wrong - to concede our error and move on.

@Thundrian: "I still have to wonder what is so precious about this deal that withdrawing from it will apparently unleash hell. Can you explain what you're all so afraid of?"
To hell with the deal. I'm more concerned about the most powerful nation on earth spunking whatever remains of her international credibility down the sewage outflow pipe and leaving a massive vacuum in the Middle East. Nature and providence abhor vacuums. You may think that Christ will fill that vacuum, i take my cue from history and believe that what will unfold will be all too 'earthly'!? I'm prepared to wager (and i'm no betting man) that you won't like what will appear in this region in a few years!

@Thunderian: "Trump promised when he was campaigning that he would withdraw from the deal, and now he's done it. He hasn't promised to withdraw from any other deals, other than NAFTA, so I don't think anyone needs to be concerned that this will start an avalanche"
You might have read my comments about Trump in other threads on these forums. I greeted his rise as a much needed antidote to the failed and corrupt liberal political classes, (across both sides of the Atlantic). As a Republican candidate and occupant of the Oval Office, Trump was (and still is) head and shoulders above any senior political figure on Capitol Hill, with the possible exception of Bernie Sanders. I even welcomed his decision to move the US Embassy to Jerusalem.
If anything, he hasn't been the sort of 'game changer' that many of his own supporters had wanted. He remains firmly in the pockets of the financial kleptocracy of Wall Street, (note the Goldman Sachs acolytes sat around his cabinet table)!?
The [real] American economy remains debt laden and moribund, in fact, the debt overhang will be even greater under Trump than Obama. The plight of working Americans will be a dangerous social and political crisis in 2020.
His military entanglements have been even more ridiculous (see Syria) than any of his recent predecessors. Even with the positive development in North Korea, the Middle East is more dangerous and unstable since the 1950's and 60's.
 





Joined
Mar 16, 2017
Messages
2,152
Likes
4,591
#94
The Paris climate accords would have been a disaster for the United States, with the expected net gain of very little, in terms of benefit to the environment. It was as much a bag of farts as the Iran deal was.

Globalist elites have been trying to destroy America for a long time. The Paris and Iran deals were useless, and bad for America. Trump is not the first person to say this, he's just the first person in power to do something about it.

What was the big, sacred Iran deal supposed to accomplish, and why will the withdrawal of the United States from it be the end of the world?
The pros and cons of the Paris climate accords are beside the point and I’m not going to argue them here... however you can’t sit here with a straight face and say he hasn’t backed out of other agreements when he clearly has. Then when showed he has try to argue they were bad agreements, so what.

If you love trump so much why don’t younimmigrate to America? I’m sure trump will have no problem letting YOU in.
 





Joined
Mar 24, 2017
Messages
3,937
Likes
6,267
#95
It is common knowledge that they, under the guise of a humanitarian mission in Haiti, were there to harvest organs and trafficking kids.
I can guarantee that no person with healthy cognitive faculties would ever actually think that Israel would help others for the sake of just doing good. It takes a special kind of moron to believe that while they snipe children and kill kids on a beach playing soccer in Palestine that they actually go out to other gentile nations and try to help those children. If people actually believe they do good for the sake of doing good well I have some oil to sell to you.
 





Joined
Apr 22, 2017
Messages
1,412
Likes
2,773
#96
I can guarantee that no person with healthy cognitive faculties would ever actually think that Israel would help others for the sake of just doing good. It takes a special kind of moron to believe that while they snipe children and kill kids on a beach playing soccer in Palestine that they actually go out to other gentile nations and try to help those children. If people actually believe they do good for the sake of doing good well I have some oil to sell to you.
I have a bridge for sell as well.
 





Joined
Mar 27, 2017
Messages
2,368
Likes
5,832
#97
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
2,668
Likes
3,408
#98
I wonder how many suicide bombings you need to undertake before Europe calls you a terrorist organization.

I guess it's true that the EU and Hezbollah have an agreement. Europe doesn't call Hezbollah terrorists, and Hezbollah doesn't commit terrorist acts in Europe.