Transgender Woman Sues After Muslim Refuses Body Waxing Service

[Thunderian]

Or this was a person looking for a basic service who got rightfully pissed it was denied to HER, because they said she was a male which in itself is against the law I believe and certainly if not illegal still insulting. You honestly have no idea if the person went elsewhere to get the service and still complained which is 100% in the realm of possibility. Complaining about businesses on the internet is not a crime and is pretty damn commonplace. If the business responded in such a way as to further provoke rather than smooth things over they are stupid ass business people who probably shouldn’t be running a business at all.

If you want to discriminate there are ways to do so without being so obvious about it. If your being so damn obvious about it regardless maybe it’s the business owner with the damn agenda instead.

Pump the brakes, Jess. She said she wanted the full wax, and they said they don't do male genitalia. She then went and made a video which she posted online, accusing the spa of being bigots, and threatened to continue to publicly call them out for being prejudiced against transgendered people.

Does that seem like a reasonable response to you? If I called a spa up and insisted they wax my junk, even after they told me they don't wax male genitalia, would it be OK if I said it was a hate crime?

 

[polymoog]

Pump the brakes, Jess. She said she wanted the full wax, and they said they don't do male genitalia. She then went and made a video which she posted online, accusing the spa of being bigots, and threatened to continue to publicly call them out for being prejudiced against transgendered people.

Does that seem like a reasonable response to you? If I called a spa up and insisted they wax my junk, even after they told me they don't wax male genitalia, would it be OK if I said it was a hate crime?

in canada and calilfornia, yes!

 

[justjess]

Pump the brakes, Jess. She said she wanted the full wax, and they said they don't do male genitalia. She then went and made a video which she posted online, accusing the spa of being bigots, and threatened to continue to publicly call them out for being prejudiced against transgendered people.

Does that seem like a reasonable response to you? If I called a spa up and insisted they wax my junk, even after they told me they don't wax male genitalia, would it be OK if I said it was a hate crime?

She said she wanted her legs waxed. LEGS are not genitals, nor do leg waxing include genitalia in any way.

None of this seems reasonable. However, the customer has literally no expectation to be reasonable whereas the business typically does. If they all want to act like children let the chips fall where they may.

The business could have simply said our clinician is on leave until Thursday, sorry for the inconvenience, can I schedule you for Thursday and offer a 5-% discount. Problem solved. They did not for whatever reason giving information that was not necessary and sounds bigoted and then got mad that the customer complained on the internet about it and continued to make it worse for themselves.

That’s retarted business practices if nothing else.

 

[rainerann]

I think the employer’s response was very fair. They had two special needs groups and was trying to accommodate both of them. The transgender person was not excluded from receiving services and the Muslim women was not forced to perform services that went against her religious beliefs.

In reality, because she is the employee, the employer could have told her to wax the customer regardless of her beliefs or she would be out of a job.

The reality is that the person requesting services is not a woman. They are a transgender woman, which is what the employer was trying to say in creating a fair environment for their employer to work. Waxing a transgender woman is against their belief and being a transgender woman means you won’t be getting a bikini wax as part of the full wax treatment because you don’t have a vagina, you still have a penis. So that service won’t be provided at that salon.

Surprisingly fair approach to this subject and still it is not good enough. I think it will be interesting to see what’s ahead when you can try to be this fair to both special groups and It still isn’t good enough.

My support goes to the employer. I think they had good judgement from the information I have on this situation.

 

[justjess]

They asked for a leg wax. Not a bikini wax. No genitals involved.

 

[Violette]

She said she wanted her legs waxed. LEGS are not genitals, nor do leg waxing include genitalia in any way.

None of this seems reasonable. However, the customer has literally no expectation to be reasonable whereas the business typically does. If they all want to act like children let the chips fall where they may.

The business could have simply said our clinician is on leave until Thursday, sorry for the inconvenience, can I schedule you for Thursday and offer a 5-% discount. Problem solved. They did not for whatever reason giving information that was not necessary and sounds bigoted and then got mad that the customer complained on the internet about it and continued to make it worse for themselves.

That’s retarted business practices if nothing else.

She asked for a Brazilian on the phone, complained about it being a leg wax on the Internet to manipulate public perception of the situation. She didn’t even physically go into the salon and was denied by the Muslim woman as the Internet would lead you to believe. She called beforehand and the owner explained the staff that could service her was on sick leave and the only person available was a Muslim woman that couldn’t touch males outside of her family.
http://windsorstar.com/news/local-news/transgender-woman-files-human-rights-complaint-against-windsor-spa
“Following a conversation with an employee, she asked to speak with the owner. Carruthers said he called her back and explained that the female employee working that day was a practising Muslim who refrains from physical contact with males outside of her family.

He further explained the only staff member he had who did male waxing was off on a sick leave and there was no one else.

Carruthers said he decided to go public with the issue because of a derogatory video about his business that was posted online and threats from the complainant to create “a media circus.”

He said his business has no policy against serving transgender clients.

“I once again reiterate and state my position and the position of Mad Wax Windsor Inc. that all clients, regardless of sex, gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, are welcome,” he said in a statement. “However, we also welcome and support all of our staff members and respect their religious beliefs and feelings of safety and dignity in regards to the right to perform waxing services on males or male genitals.”

He said it was clear from his conversation with the complainant that the services sought were for a Brazilian wax and not leg waxing as has been suggested since.

Carruthers said 98 per cent of the spa’s clientele is female and all of his staff are female. The spa has done waxing on the arms and backs of male clients in the past.


“When we’ve been asked about a male Brazilian wax in the past we tell them we’re not able to provide that service and they move on,” Carruthers said. ”It’s never been a issue.”

 

[Claire Rousseau]

Whatever happened to “We reserve the RIGHT to refuse service for any reason”?

These freaks of nature are only trying to push people’s religious boundaries to FORCE them to do what they know is contrary to the person’s religious and moral convictions.

As someone else said, the thing could have made an appointment with the person who was willing to do it, but as the Bible says, these “people”(I use the term loosely) are implacable.

Here’s an easy verdict:

Throw this tort lawsuit out the window & tell the guy to take off his skirt and be a man about it.

 

[justjess]

She asked for a Brazilian on the phone, complained about it being a leg wax on the Internet to manipulate public perception of the situation. She didn’t even physically go into the salon and was denied by the Muslim woman as the Internet would lead you to believe. She called beforehand and the owner explained the staff that could service her was on sick leave and the only person available was a Muslim woman that couldn’t touch males outside of her family.
http://windsorstar.com/news/local-news/transgender-woman-files-human-rights-complaint-against-windsor-spa
“Following a conversation with an employee, she asked to speak with the owner. Carruthers said he called her back and explained that the female employee working that day was a practising Muslim who refrains from physical contact with males outside of her family.

He further explained the only staff member he had who did male waxing was off on a sick leave and there was no one else.

Carruthers said he decided to go public with the issue because of a derogatory video about his business that was posted online and threats from the complainant to create “a media circus.”

He said his business has no policy against serving transgender clients.

“I once again reiterate and state my position and the position of Mad Wax Windsor Inc. that all clients, regardless of sex, gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, are welcome,” he said in a statement. “However, we also welcome and support all of our staff members and respect their religious beliefs and feelings of safety and dignity in regards to the right to perform waxing services on males or male genitals.”

He said it was clear from his conversation with the complainant that the services sought were for a Brazilian wax and not leg waxing as has been suggested since.

Carruthers said 98 per cent of the spa’s clientele is female and all of his staff are female. The spa has done waxing on the arms and backs of male clients in the past.


“When we’ve been asked about a male Brazilian wax in the past we tell them we’re not able to provide that service and they move on,” Carruthers said. ”It’s never been a issue.”

You have two different people reporting two different things. Each of them has reason to alter the truth. Which do you believe? I guess that depends... neither of them has a recording and the salon insisting it was a Brazilian is nothing but their word, no better then the customers word.

The salon has 50k and a reputation at stake here, lots of incentive to lie. The customer not so much.

For what it’s worth I have instructed my son and husband and have also started the habit of RECORDING potentially sensitive conversations because people are such liars you need that level of protection.

 

[TempestOfTempo]

She asked for a Brazilian on the phone, complained about it being a leg wax on the Internet to manipulate public perception of the situation. She didn’t even physically go into the salon and was denied by the Muslim woman as the Internet would lead you to believe. She called beforehand and the owner explained the staff that could service her was on sick leave and the only person available was a Muslim woman that couldn’t touch males outside of her family.
http://windsorstar.com/news/local-news/transgender-woman-files-human-rights-complaint-against-windsor-spa
“Following a conversation with an employee, she asked to speak with the owner. Carruthers said he called her back and explained that the female employee working that day was a practising Muslim who refrains from physical contact with males outside of her family.

He further explained the only staff member he had who did male waxing was off on a sick leave and there was no one else.

Carruthers said he decided to go public with the issue because of a derogatory video about his business that was posted online and threats from the complainant to create “a media circus.”

He said his business has no policy against serving transgender clients.

“I once again reiterate and state my position and the position of Mad Wax Windsor Inc. that all clients, regardless of sex, gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, are welcome,” he said in a statement. “However, we also welcome and support all of our staff members and respect their religious beliefs and feelings of safety and dignity in regards to the right to perform waxing services on males or male genitals.”

He said it was clear from his conversation with the complainant that the services sought were for a Brazilian wax and not leg waxing as has been suggested since.

Carruthers said 98 per cent of the spa’s clientele is female and all of his staff are female. The spa has done waxing on the arms and backs of male clients in the past.


“When we’ve been asked about a male Brazilian wax in the past we tell them we’re not able to provide that service and they move on,” Carruthers said. ”It’s never been a issue.”

"She asked for a Brazilian on the phone, complained about it being a leg wax on the Internet to manipulate public perception of the situation."
This.

 

[Violette]

You have two different people reporting two different things. Each of them has reason to alter the truth. Which do you believe? I guess that depends... neither of them has a recording and the salon insisting it was a Brazilian is nothing but their word, no better then the customers word.

The salon has 50k and a reputation at stake here, lots of incentive to lie. The customer not so much.

For what it’s worth I have instructed my son and husband and have also started the habit of RECORDING potentially sensitive conversations because people are such liars you need that level of protection.

People don’t really need an incentive to lie especially if they have a martyr complex. I have witnessed people lie literally just for the attention or to ruins someone’s reputation just because they don’t like them on social media. We just had to go through social media drama at my own job. Even if this wasn’t for a Brazilian wax the Muslim woman reserves the right to not service men at all. An appointment was never made and she was given a reasonable explanation why.....she just didn’t like it. It’s not a basic human right to get waxed at your command by anyone. I’m more inclined to believe the business simply because they weren’t being hateful or unreasonable to this woman at all. This is petty and insulting to people who have legitimately experienced a hate crime.

I definitely agree about recording sensitive conversations, dash cams are very useful too.

 

[justjess]

"She asked for a Brazilian on the phone, complained about it being a leg wax on the Internet to manipulate public perception of the situation."
This.

Proof.

Otherwise it’s one persons word against another.

 

[TempestOfTempo]

Proof.

Otherwise it’s one persons word against another.

Well the business owner has been upfront about the whole situation and has addressed it publicly to the media. Everything he has said adds up so far. On the other hand, you have someone with a changing story hiding behind an attorney whos comment is "no comment."

 

[Vytas]

HER

Can people disagree with this evaluation and have their personal opinion ? In all seriousness if my girlfriend came after work and said she just did full body wax to some random guy who thinks he is a woman i would say you can go and live with HIM then...bye...

 

[Annonymous_Damsel]

Can people disagree with this evaluation and have their personal opinion ? In all seriousness if my girlfriend came after work and said she just did full body wax to some random guy who thinks he is a woman i would say you can go and live with HIM then...bye...

LMAO!!!!!

 

[justjess]

The problem isn’t the Muslim woman not providing the service, it’s the business handling it incompetently imo. All they had to say is the person who does this is out sick they will be back wednesday can we schedule you for then. End of story.

 

[justjess]

LMAO!!!!!

According to Canadian anti discrimination laws, they can have a differing opinion but that opinion can’t influence their actions. I’m sure a Canadian can give you the actual laws. There was a thread on here about them some where not long ago.

 

[justjess]

Well the business owner has been upfront about the whole situation and has addressed it publicly to the media. Everything he has said adds up so far. On the other hand, you have someone with a changing story hiding behind an attorney whos comment is "no comment."

You assume the business owner is being upfront instead of just running damage control PR. I don’t know if that’s the case.

The suit mentions the business releasing this woman’s personal info and that is what she is seeking claims on, so far I’ve seen no further explanation of what this means and that’s a bit concerning, more so than the refusal of service.

To me it just sounds like a bad yelp review that the business owner responded unprofessionally to.

 

[TempestOfTempo]

You assume the business owner is being upfront instead of just running damage control PR. I don’t know if that’s the case.

The suit mentions the business releasing this woman’s personal info and that is what she is seeking claims on, so far I’ve seen no further explanation of what this means and that’s a bit concerning, more so than the refusal of service.

To me it just sounds like a bad yelp review that the business owner responded unprofessionally to.

To me it sounds like this person was gunning for confrontation, initiated this intentionally agitated situation and then has hid behind a lawyer. Canada has some fairly strict laws regarding these types of situations, so we shall see how it plays out in the end.......

 

[Vytas]

To me it sounds like this person was gunning for confrontation,

They always do that and try to paint themselves as victims afterwards...

 

[TempestOfTempo]

They always do that and try to paint themselves as victims afterwards...

Very often, this is either blatantly obvious or turns out to be true......