Toxic femininity is real

Stephania

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Yeah this is typical group think of the radical left. They somehow want to have all people to be united based on their color of skin or sex, but they do not want any competing ideologies that may put their worldview in danger. This is also a form of fascism. I often roll my eyes at the countless outrage mobs that populate Twitter for example...it's like these people have nothing else to do but complain about some imagined unfairness.
I agree with everything that you said.. except for the 'radical left' part. I agree with what @justjess said about that statement. And certainly, I do not believe that hawkish HRC is in any way a leftist.. radical or not.
 






Helioform

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I agree with everything that you said.. except for the 'radical left' part. I agree with what @justjess said about that statement. And certainly, I do not believe that hawkish HRC is in any way a leftist.. radical or not.
Frankly the only thing that HRC isn't left about is this. War. All the rest is though. Her followers often overlook that too.
 






justjess

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That is obviously true but right now the left is pretty much in control of the western world. Which is why I bring up these issues.




I am only bringing up facts and commentating on issues that affect the world RIGHT NOW. It has nothing to do with bias since you don't know what my opinions are on other subjects. You also can't figure out what I think just by randomly trying to see patterns in internet posts.



Well no shit Sherlock, that is known already. I'm just trying to bring to light certain things that some people on this board seem to be oblivious to.
The left is in control? The left hasn’t one a single major policy position since FDR. Conservatives have control of the US presidency, legislature and judicial branch. That is what is happening RIGHT NOW. What exactly is the left in control over? What is your evidence for that claim? Because I don’t see it. Media is leftist - most, not all - but it is corporate left, not true left and there are many instances of them purposely subverting actual leftism just as there are many instances of rightest controlled media as well.

You just told someone “bugger off feminist” please tell me how that is a shining example of your lack of bias? Statistics about the pay gap have been manipulated by both sides... you presented the conservative manipulation. Both of these combined with the virtue signaling evident in the title of your thread and the choice of YouTube video to accompany it are evidence of bias. Just like my responses to you are evidence of my own bias. Bias is literally built in to every thing about us and everything we as humans do, say think or feel. It’s impossible for it not to be that way.
 






justjess

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Frankly the only thing that HRC isn't left about is this. War. All the rest is though. Her followers often overlook that too.
The clIntons are not leftists. They are neoliberal. They are responsible for demonizing the poor and mass incarceration to various degrees. On top of being war hawks. Please don’t use them as examples of “leftists” when the left itself rejects them
 






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It's not an = relationship but third wave feminism seems to cause toxic femininity in many cases. Did you watch the video? The sense of entitlement for example, and the outrage due to excessive virtue signaling mostly.
Yes I did watch the video. There is no doubt that 3rd wave feminism influences bad behavior. The point I was making is that many posters are commenting on feminism and equating toxic femininity as one and the same. The video makes the case that many different elements make up toxic femininity and feminism is just one part.
 






justjess

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It’s interesting how some of you seem willing to discuss toxic femininity and the role feminism may play in creating it.. yet the words “toxic masculinity” and the idea that our patriarchal culture has a role in creating it is met with nothing but scorn by the same people.

I’m not stupid enough to think a thread which talks about toxic femininity means the people contributing to it are villainizing all women or even all feminists. Yet the reverse is not true.
 






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It’s interesting how some of you seem willing to discuss toxic femininity and the role feminism may play in creating it.. yet the words “toxic masculinity” and the idea that our patriarchal culture has a role in creating it is met with nothing but scorn by the same people.

I’m not stupid enough to think a thread which talks about toxic femininity means the people contributing to it are villainizing all women or even all feminists. Yet the reverse is not true.
I think the problem is that toxic femininity (is seemingly)being condoned/encouraged while the discussion around "toxic masculinity" seems to just be a grab attack at masculinity in general (even if by chipping away little by little)...
 






Lurking009

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”Toxic femininity” is an absolutely RIDICULOUS “idea.” It makes no sense, and has zero logic to me at all. Just WHO (made up) the (unrealistic and extremely bullsh*t, sexist, misogynistic, nonsensical “rule,” or “idea” of this asinine (I guess we could call it a “word?!”) “problem” (“toxic femininity” is obviously a newly created, ridiculous word or oppressive “phrase” or whatever to TRY and succeed in making us women feel guilty for experiencing/expressing our ANGER and RAGE (yes, dear sexist misogynists, is women have the capacity to experience strong anger and rage since it (gasp)!! IS an absolutely normal and 100% HUMAN emotion!! There is NO law or rule stating that ONLY males have the freedom (and obviously luxury) of expressing their anger and rage. After all, we DO live in a patriarchy, us women are considered a “minority,” and are treated lower than DIRT in countless countries all over the world. I happen to be “lucky” to be born and raised in the USA, but us women here still do not receive equal pay for equal work! You’d be pissed too! We now have a misogynist, sexist, chauvinistic president (Donald Trump) who was tape recorded saying it’s ok to “grab women by the pussy.” He is okaying sexual assault. (Note: the USA is supposed to be a progressive country, and it IS the year 2020). It f**king sucks that we’ve regressed as a country in this day and age, and a man like Trump represents my country. He is an absolute embarrassment! Don’t you DARE try to silence us women into feeling guilty about our anger and rage, and then make us feel guilty for expressing it! You can’t control us; long gone are the days where we weren’t allowed to vote, own land, or marry whom we choose to. We’ve had to fight for every “freedom” we currently have that men are given simply by their birthright. “All men are created equal?!?” Yeah bullsh*t; obviously still not if your born FEMALE!
Yawn. Try discussing intelligently instead of toxic emotional raging... which is unacceptable behavior for any adult, whether male or female. It's like listening to a toddler throwing a tantrum, and it's beyond tiresome. If you're going to behave this way, then understand and accept that most people will not take you seriously.
 






Helioform

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The left is in control? The left hasn’t one a single major policy position since FDR. Conservatives have control of the US presidency, legislature and judicial branch. That is what is happening RIGHT NOW. What exactly is the left in control over? What is your evidence for that claim? Because I don’t see it. Media is leftist - most, not all - but it is corporate left, not true left and there are many instances of them purposely subverting actual leftism just as there are many instances of rightest controlled media as well.

You just told someone “bugger off feminist” please tell me how that is a shining example of your lack of bias? Statistics about the pay gap have been manipulated by both sides... you presented the conservative manipulation. Both of these combined with the virtue signaling evident in the title of your thread and the choice of YouTube video to accompany it are evidence of bias. Just like my responses to you are evidence of my own bias. Bias is literally built in to every thing about us and everything we as humans do, say think or feel. It’s impossible for it not to be that way.
The left is in control of the media and academia. Read Jordan Peterson for example. They have control over the entire western culture.

I told her to bugger off because she was simply regurgitating typical feminist talking points. Too brainwashed to have an actual convo really.

There is no pay gap for the same job since it is illegal to pay less someone for the same job. Women are paid less in average simply because they have lower paying jobs in average. There is no manipulation of any stats here, only misunderstanding of stats from raging feminists.
 






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Helioform

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The clIntons are not leftists. They are neoliberal. They are responsible for demonizing the poor and mass incarceration to various degrees. On top of being war hawks. Please don’t use them as examples of “leftists” when the left itself rejects them
The left embraces them. They are leftist. They constantly babble about gay rights, racism and other typical leftist talking points. CNN being a leftist biased news media was totally biased for her for example.
 






Helioform

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It’s interesting how some of you seem willing to discuss toxic femininity and the role feminism may play in creating it.. yet the words “toxic masculinity” and the idea that our patriarchal culture has a role in creating it is met with nothing but scorn by the same people.

I’m not stupid enough to think a thread which talks about toxic femininity means the people contributing to it are villainizing all women or even all feminists. Yet the reverse is not true.
How many times do you read or hear about "toxic masculinity" in the media but never its feminine equivalent? Frankly we men are becoming very tired of being told that being masculine is a bad thing. They are trying to put all masculine behaviour into the "toxic" zone because of their inherent bias against men.
 






justjess

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The left is in control of the media and academia. Read Jordan Peterson for example. They have control over the entire western culture.

I told her to bugger off because she was simply regurgitating typical feminist talking points. Too brainwashed to have an actual convo really.

There is no pay gap for the same job since it is illegal to pay less someone for the same job. Women are paid less in average simply because they have lower paying jobs in average. There is no manipulation of any stats here, only misunderstanding of stats from raging feminists.
“Raging feminists” = virtue signaling, explicit bias.

The pay gap is way more complicated then either side - including your own - ever bothers to acknowledge in these arguments. Controlled for same career and qualifications it is .98 women to $1 men. Which is a small difference but still a difference. In and of itself it isn’t worth arguing about, however, you are ignoring all the structural hurdles and biases that prevent women from having the same exact job, qualifications and employment history as men. That isn’t an entirely honest argument just like saying women make .78 to $1 isn’t an entirely honest argument. Both arguments are meant to boost someone’s own position while neglecting the full truth and context of the situation.

As for the Clintons.. they are neoliberal. The left rejects them. The media you are citing, as already explained aren’t actually “left” they are neoliberal as well. So just stop.
 






TempestOfTempo

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”Toxic femininity” is an absolutely RIDICULOUS “idea.” It makes no sense, and has zero logic to me at all. Just WHO (made up) the (unrealistic and extremely bullsh*t, sexist, misogynistic, nonsensical “rule,” or “idea” of this asinine (I guess we could call it a “word?!”) “problem” (“toxic femininity” is obviously a newly created, ridiculous word or oppressive “phrase” or whatever to TRY and succeed in making us women feel guilty for experiencing/expressing our ANGER and RAGE (yes, dear sexist misogynists, is women have the capacity to experience strong anger and rage since it (gasp)!! IS an absolutely normal and 100% HUMAN emotion!! There is NO law or rule stating that ONLY males have the freedom (and obviously luxury) of expressing their anger and rage. After all, we DO live in a patriarchy, us women are considered a “minority,” and are treated lower than DIRT in countless countries all over the world. I happen to be “lucky” to be born and raised in the USA, but us women here still do not receive equal pay for equal work! You’d be pissed too! We now have a misogynist, sexist, chauvinistic president (Donald Trump) who was tape recorded saying it’s ok to “grab women by the pussy.” He is okaying sexual assault. (Note: the USA is supposed to be a progressive country, and it IS the year 2020). It f**king sucks that we’ve regressed as a country in this day and age, and a man like Trump represents my country. He is an absolute embarrassment! Don’t you DARE try to silence us women into feeling guilty about our anger and rage, and then make us feel guilty for expressing it! You can’t control us; long gone are the days where we weren’t allowed to vote, own land, or marry whom we choose to. We’ve had to fight for every “freedom” we currently have that men are given simply by their birthright. “All men are created equal?!?” Yeah bullsh*t; obviously still not if your born FEMALE!
You make excellent points, but I dont think what passes for feminism now is the vehicle to address these issues. I support strong, independent and free thinking females. I also accept females whom are the opposite still retaining their right to live as they see fit. What I cant co-sign is that toxic femininity aint real. Thats like people of color saying "I cant be racist" when in fact, much of the most heinous racism we face is from other people of color. But I respect your right to speak your mind either way.
 






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