To Muslims: Proof from the Quran that Mohammad/Islam is wrong

[Lefort3000]

Again, show me any other slave trade which killed that many slaves and enslaved that many people in such a short time frame?

None, obviously. It still happened well after Christianity started. I can also point to a steady loss of religion/the Church's power, different/worse religious doctrines, and capitalism/wealth interests being reasons for the Euro slave trade. Not the bullshit reason you have. Slavery is major part of Islam. If Muslims had the power to nowadays and if they had a proper understanding of their religion, they'd be doing the same shit. That is if they didnt apostasize, but they wouldnt be able to because theyd be murdered. Great stuff.

Don't be throwing hadiths at me when you have no idea what it's talking about. There's context to it all.

Oh yea, theres context? Give me the context. No proof provided again.

Also, the Quranic verse in regards to slaves as booty was when the pagan men and WOMEN were advocating for the death of the prophet and other Muslims and when the pagans lost the war they started they were taken as slaves.

However, in your Bible your Jesus man god commanded his prophets to kill a whole group of people just solely based on what their ancestors did to the Israelites hundreds of years prior.

Let's not forget your god also, commanding killing of all the men, women, animals, children, and baby boys who had nothing to do with the wars. The only people they didn't kill were the little virgin girls who were then kept as sex slaves.

That second full Quran verse had context (hence "their", ect...), the first one had generalized wording, and no verse abrogating it, so it would be the final ruling. Regardless, most of the those Quran verses were actually relatively positive as far as slavery is considered. But according to you, they're all contextual and only apply to the pagans of that time. I guess that means Islamic slavery is more brutal than I thought, thanks for clearing that up.



YHWH called for those massacres. Your "seal of the Prophets, the one that was prophesizedin Dueteronomy even though he actually wasnt" Mohammad said that he followed the God of the Bible as well. Interesting how you can deride YHWH when your religion says that.

The calls for massacres were called herem warfare. They accurred to a large degree among Canaanite tribes, and more heavily twice I believe apart from that (the Midianites as well as the Ammonites later down the line, the one you're directly referencing here).

10 “When you approach a city to fight against it, you shall [f]offer it terms of peace. 11 If it [g]agrees to make peace with you and opens to you, then all the people who are found in it shall become your forced labor and shall serve you. 12 However, if it does not make peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it. 13 When the Lord your God gives it into your hand, you shall strike all the [h]men in it with the edge of the sword. 14 Only the women and the children and the animals and all that is in the city, all its spoil, you shall take as booty for yourself; and you shall [i]use the spoil of your enemies which the Lord your God has given you. 15 Thus you shall do to all the cities that are very far from you, which are not of the cities of these nations [j]nearby. 16 Only in the cities of these peoples that the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, you shall not leave alive anything that breathes. 17 But you shall [k]utterly destroy them, the Hittite and the Amorite, the Canaanite and the Perizzite, the Hivite and the Jebusite, as the Lord your God has commanded you, 18 so that they may not teach you to do according to all their detestable things which they have done for their gods, so that you would sin against the Lord your God.


Sounds pretty similiar to the Muslim stuff tbh.

However, what you ignore about Herem warfare is who died in it. In any war regardless in ancient times, the men of fighting age would've been largely slaughtered if one side lost. The women and children would've been taken as wives/slaves, along with the remaining men. In this case, the women and children were killed too. Oh no, women actually have to die in warfare as well, its horrible! Not really. As for the children, sure, thats rough, but child mortality rates were estimated to be about 50% up to the age of 15 then.

The last thing you ignore is what those civilizations did to deserve this. The Bible cites a large amount of sins as evidence against the Canaanites. Just as Sodom and Gomorrah got destroyed for their sins, these people got massacred as well. You also ignore how they could've been treating others. The Ammonites attacked the Israelites when when they were vulnerable, a culture that does that would be doing that to other vulnerable tribes as well. Its entirely possible that the Canaanites were also immoral in regards to their treatment of neighbors. Finally, theres proof that herem warfare was used by surrounding nations:

Mesha Stele - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I challenge you. Show me one verse in the Quran that shows Muslims killing innocent people, animals, children, and enslaving little kids especially virgins? Heck if you like your hadiths so much show me one authentic Hadith which is comparable to verses in your Bible in regards to killing people for the crim s of others, and for the killing of children, and enslaving free people especially little virgin girls.

The Muslims are commanded in Surah 9 to fight Jews and Christians and murder all the pagans they find after their treaty or whatever is up. In before "yOuR iGnOrInG cONteXt".
These verses have nothing changing that command (abrogation) after them, and no direct context given. They can very easily be interpreted as calls to conquering and murder.
I already showed you Hadiths on enslavement and sexual slavery. Also, please tell me when the Quran says "fight the Jews and Christians to subjugate them", how that isnt a call to violence for other's sins. Im sure the vassal Christian state killing Mohammad messenger, if that even happened, meant that all Christians that Mohammadan could get their hands on had to be subjugated.

 

[Resistor]

Regardless, most of the those Quran verses were actually relatively positive as far as slavery is considered.

All mentions of slaves in the Qur'an either mention freeing slaves, or marrying them to free them.

The Muslims are commanded in Surah 9 to fight Jews and Christians and murder all the pagans they find after their treaty or whatever is up. In before "yOuR iGnOrInG cONteXt".

It's very obvious that you have to understand the context. It's not a chapter that speaks about day-to-day dealings between Muslims with Jews, Christians and Pagans, it deals with an specific conflict that happened towards the end of the Prophet's life. The end result of it didn't amount to as much, from reading the Surah alone you'd think that more was going on then there actually was.

Also an outline is given in 9:13:
Will you not make war on a people who broke their pledges and resolved to expel the Apostle, and first opened [hostilities] against you? Do you fear them? But God is worthier of being feared by you, should you be faithful.

 

[Lefort3000]

Bernard Lewis maintains that though slaves often suffered on the way before reaching their destination, they received good treatment and some degree of acceptance as members of their owners' households.

-Lewis, Bernard (1994). Race and Slavery in the Middle East. Oxford Univ Press.

An actual academic article stating that Muslims treated their slaves as household members. Funny enough exactly the way the Quran specified.

Than we have the Christian Transatlantic Slave who put their black people in zoos, castrated them, and made them sleep in pig shit and that's only if you didn't die on the way there.

W. Montgomery Watt points out that Muhammad's expansion of Pax Islamica to the Arabian peninsula reduced warfare and raiding, and therefore cut off the sources of enslaving freemen.

-Watt, Muhammad at Medina, 1956, p. 296

According to Patrick Manning, the Islamic legislations against the abuse of the slaves limited the extent of enslavement in Arabian peninsula and to a lesser degree for the whole area of the whole Umayyad Caliphate where slavery existed since the most ancient times.

- Manning (1990) p. 28

Then we have Muslims freeing slaves in order to make up for their sins. Abu Bakr spent all his money buying slaves from pagans and then freeing them.

Whatever your name is you were talking about sources. Now show me your sources on how well slaves were treated on the way there, the plantations, and etc.? Muslims who owned slaves treated their slaves like family while pagan Arabs and Christians treated their slaves like cattle. I take that back your kind treated them worse than cattle. I think cattle had more rights than slaves did on the plantations.

Theres plenty of more evidence to back up the brutality of the Muslim slavery:

Arab slave trade - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Their jobs were to clear away the nitrous topsoil that made the land arable. The working conditions were also considered to be extremely harsh and miserable. Many other people were imported into the region, besides Zanj.[21]

History of slavery in the Muslim world - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The most telling evidence for this is found in the gender ratio; among black slaves traded in Islamic empire across the centuries, there were roughly two females to every male.[2] Almost all of these female slaves had domestic occupations. For some, this also included sexual relations with their masters. This was a lawful motive for their purchase, and the most common one.[43]


The Muslims enslaved very large amounts of Indians as well. Atleast Muslims aren't really racist, you guys enslave everyone!:


In the Muslim conquests in the 8th century, the armies of the Umayyad commander Muhammad bin Qasim, enslaved tens of thousands of Indian prisoners, including both soldiers and civilians.[47][48] In the early 11th century Tarikh al-Yamini, the Arab historian Al-Utbi recorded that in 1001 the armies of Mahmud of Ghazna conquered Peshawar and Waihand (capital of Gandhara) after Battle of Peshawar (1001), "in the midst of the land of Hindustan", and captured some 100,000 youths.[49][50] Later, following his twelfth expedition into India in 1018–19, Mahmud is reported to have returned with such a large number of slaves that their value was reduced to only two to ten dirhams each. This unusually low price made, according to Al-Utbi, "merchants [come] from distant cities to purchase them, so that the countries of Central Asia, Iraq and Khurasan were swelled with them, and the fair and the dark, the rich and the poor, mingled in one common slavery". Elliot and Dowson refer to "five hundred thousand slaves, beautiful men, and women.".[51][52][53] Later, during the Delhi Sultanate period (1206–1555), references to the abundant availability of low-priced Indian slaves abound. Levi attributes this primarily to the vast human resources of India, compared to its neighbors to the north and west (India's Mughal population being approximately 12 to 20 times that of Turan and Iran at the end of the 16th century).[54]

100,000 slaves in one battle alone.

Research Suggests White Slavery Was Much More Common

Editor's note (3/21/20): For an update on this story, visit: Why is a 16-year-old book on slavery so popular now? A new study suggests that a million or more European Christians were enslaved by Muslims in North Africa between 1530 and 1780 – a far greater number than had ever been...

news.osu.edu

And how dumb are you. "Christians and pagan Arabs treated their slaves like cattle". You can look up castration buddy, the Muslims mass castrated their fucking male slaves. You're insinuating that what happened in the transatlantic slave trade was what ALL Christians act like. NO FUCKING PROOF OF THIS. Meanwhile Islamic slavery has been going on AS LONG AS ISLAM WAS AROUND.

More lies from you.

 

[Tidal]

The American Civil War ended slavery in America, but Arab slavers were still at it in Africa, and one man- Livingstone- took them on single-handed-

"It is impossible to overstate the evils of slavery"- David Livingstone

Some of his diary entries-
7th August 1871 -"ill and almost every step in pain"
11th August-"Rested half a day as I am still ill"
13th August- "I am suffering greatly"
16th August- "To Luama river. Very ill with bowels"
19th-20th August- "Rest from weakness"
29th August- "ill all night, and remain"
30th August- "Ditto, ditto"
23rd September- "I felt as if dying on my feet..almost every step was in pain..violent diarrhoea"
8th October- "The dust of the march caused ophthalmia...ill"

 

[Lefort3000]

Its funny how you never really got into the implications of the ENTIRE Bible compared to the Quran. The New Testament ABROGATES some of the eye for an eye stuff in the Old Testament. YOU IGNORE THAT.

Your Quran's LAST COMMANDMENTS were to FIGHT THE JEWS AND CHRISTIANS INTO SUBJUGATION, AND KILL PAGANS. THATS A FACT.

 

[Resistor]

Its funny how you never really got into the implications of the ENTIRE Bible compared to the Quran. The New Testament ABROGATES some of the eye for an eye stuff in the Old Testament. YOU IGNORE THAT.

Your Quran's LAST COMMANDMENTS were to FIGHT THE JEWS AND CHRISTIANS INTO SUBJUGATION, AND KILL PAGANS. THATS A FACT.

Not true, the Farewell Sermon is far more significant for a lot of reasons:

Prophet Muhammad’s farewell sermon | Khutbatul-Wada’ | Jannat Al Quran

Prophet Muhammad’s farewell sermon, Khutbatul-Wada’ | 9 DhulHijjah 10 AH (9 March 632) at Mount Arafat | farewell pilgrimage

www.jannatalquran.com

Prophet Muhammad’s Last Sermon: A Final Admonition

The last sermon of Prophet Muhammad which he delivered at Hajj, the annual pilgrimage made to Mecca by Muslims all over.

www.islamreligion.com

Prophet Muhammad said:
"O People, lend me an attentive ear, for I know not whether after this year, I shall ever be amongst you again. Therefore, listen to what I am saying to you very carefully and take these words to those who could not be present here today.
O People, just as you regard this month, this day, this city as Sacred, so regard the life and property of every Muslim as a sacred trust. Return the goods entrusted to you to their rightful owners. Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you. Remember that you will indeed meet your Lord, and that He will indeed reckon your deeds. God has forbidden you to take usury (interest), therefore all interest obligation shall henceforth be waived. Your capital, however, is yours to keep. You will neither inflict nor suffer any inequity. God has Judged that there shall be no interest, and that all the interest due to Al-Abbas ibn Abd’el Muttalib shall henceforth be waived...
Beware of Satan, for the safety of your religion. He has lost all hope that he will ever be able to lead you astray in big things, so beware of following him in small things.
O People, it is true that you have certain rights with regard to your women, but they also have rights over you. Remember that you have taken them as your wives only under a trust from God and with His permission. If they abide by your right then to them belongs the right to be fed and clothed in kindness. Do treat your women well and be kind to them for they are your partners and committed helpers. And it is your right that they do not make friends with any one of whom you do not approve, as well as never to be unchaste.
O People, listen to me in earnest, worship God, perform your five daily prayers, fast during the month of Ramadan, and offer Zakat. Perform Hajj if you have the means.
All mankind is from Adam and Eve. An Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab, nor does a non-Arab have any superiority over an Arab; a white has no superiority over a black, nor does a black have any superiority over a white; [none have superiority over another] except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not, therefore, do injustice to yourselves.
Remember, one day you will appear before God and answer for your deeds. So beware, do not stray from the path of righteousness after I am gone.
O People, no prophet or apostle will come after me, and no new faith will be born. Reason well, therefore, O people, and understand words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the Quran and my example, the Sunnah, and if you follow these you will never go astray.
All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and it may be that the last ones understand my words better than those who listen to me directly. Be my witness, O God, that I have conveyed your message to your people."

 

[Lefort3000]

From: https://islamqa.info/en/answers/94840/islam-and-slavery

This is a brief summary of some of the principles of dealing with slaves in a just and kind manner:

1 – Guaranteeing them food and clothing like that of their masters.

It was narrated that Abu Dharr (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “They are your brothers whom Allaah has put under your authority, so if Allaah has put a person’s brother under his authority, let him feed him from what he eats and clothe him from what he wears, and let him not overburden him with work, and if he does overburden him with work, then let him help him.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari (6050).

2 – Preserving their dignity

It was narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: I heard Abu’l-Qaasim (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: “Whoever accuses his slave when he is innocent of what he says will be flogged on the Day of Resurrection, unless he is as he said.” Narrated by al- Bukhaari (6858).

Ibn ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) manumitted a slave of his, then he picked up a stick or something from the ground and said: There is no more reward in it than the equivalent of this, but I heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: “Whoever slaps his slave or beats him, his expiation is to manumit him.” Narrated by Muslim (1657).

3 – Being fair towards slaves and treating them kindly

It was narrated that ‘Uthmaan ibn ‘Affaan tweaked the ear of a slave of his when he did something wrong, then he said to him after that: Come and tweak my ear in retaliation. The slave refused but he insisted, so he started to tweak it slightly, and he said to him: Do it strongly, for I cannot bear the punishment on the Day of Resurrection. The slave said: Like that, O my master? The Day that you fear I fear also.

When ‘Abd al-Rahmaan ibn ‘Awf (may Allaah be pleased with him) walked among his slaves, no one could tell him apart from them, because he did not walk ahead of them, and he did not wear anything different from what they wore.

One day ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab passed by and saw some slaves standing and not eating with their master. He got angry and said to their master: What is wrong with people who are selfish towards their servants? Then he called the servants and they ate with them.

A man entered upon Salmaan (may Allaah be pleased with him) and found him making dough – and he was a governor. He said to him: O Abu ‘Abd-Allaah, what is this? He said: We have sent our servant on an errand and we do not want to give him two jobs at once.

4 – There is nothing wrong with slaves having precedence over free men in some matters

- with regard to any religious or worldly matters in which he excels over him. For example, it is valid for a slave to lead the prayer. ‘Aa’ishah the Mother of the Believers had a slave who would lead her in prayer. Indeed the Muslims have been commanded to hear and obey even if a slave is appointed in charge of their affairs.

5 – A slave may buy himself from his master and be free.

If a person is enslaved for some reason but then it becomes apparent that he has given up his wrongdoing and forgotten his past, and he has become a man who shuns evil and seeks to do good, is it permissible to respond to his request to let him go free? Islam says yes, and there are some fuqaha’ who say that this is obligatory and some who say that it is mustahabb.

This is what is called a mukaatabah or contract of manumission between the slave and his master. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And such of your slaves as seek a writing (of emancipation), give them such writing, if you find that there is good and honesty in them. And give them something (yourselves) out of the wealth of Allaah which He has bestowed upon you”
[al-Noor 24:33]
____________________________

This is how Islam treats slaves justly and kindly.

One of the results of these guidelines is that in many cases, the slave would become a friend of his master; in some cases the master would regard him as a son. Sa’d ibn Haashim al-Khaalidi said, describing a slave of his:

He is not a slave, rather he is a son whom [Allaah] has put under my care. He has supported me with his good service; he is my hands and my arms.

Another result of the Muslims treating slaves in this manner is that the slaves became part of Muslim families as if they were also family members.

Gustave le Bon says in Hadaarat al-‘Arab (Arab Civilization) (p. 459-460):
What I sincerely believe is that slavery among the Muslims is better than slavery among any other people, and that the situation of slaves in the east is better than that of servants in Europe, and that slaves in the east are part of the family. Slaves who wanted to be free could attain freedom by expressing their wish. But despite that, they did not resort to exercising this right.

The hadiths from bukhari are positive towards treatment of slaves. The rest I need a source for, and whether they're trustworthy.
The following hadiths still exist though

Hadiths:

Sahih Bukhari:


Vol. 5-#459 [This Hadith is similar to the above. However, additional details are added]. Narrated Ibn Muhairiz: "I entered the mosque and saw Abu Khudri and sat beside him and asked him about coitus interruptus. Abu said, "We went out with Allah's messenger for the Ghazwa (attack upon) Banu Mustaliq and we received captives from among the Arab captives and we desired women and celibacy became hard on us and we loved to do coitus interruptus. So when we intended to do coitus interruptus we said "How can we do coitus interruptus without asking Allah's messenger while he is present among us?" We asked (him) about it and he said "It is better for you not to do so, for if any soul (till the Day of Resurrection) is predestined to exist, it will exist.""

Vol. 3-#765

Narrated Kuraib: the freed slave of Ibn 'Abbas, that Maimuna bint Al-Harith told him that she manumitted a slave-girl without taking the permission of the Prophet. On the day when it was her turn to be with the Prophet, she said, "Do you know, O Allah's Apostle, that I have manumitted my slave-girl?" He said, "Have you really?" She replied in the affirmative. He said, "You would have got more reward if you had given her (i.e. the slave-girl) to one of your maternal uncles."

- Mohammad discourages her freeing slave

Vol. 5-#637 Narrated Buraida: The prophet sent Ali to Khalid to bring the Khumus ([one fifth] of the booty) and I hated Ali, and Ali had taken a bath (after a sexual act with a slave girl from the Khumus). I said to Khalid, "Don't you see this (i.e. Ali)?" When we reached the prophet I mentioned that to him. He said, "O Buraida! Do you hate Ali?" I said, "Yes" He said, "Do you hate him, for he deserves more than that from the Khumus."

The note for this Hadith says "Buraida hated Ali because he had taken a slave girl form the booty and considered that as something not good."

Vol. 7-#734 "....At the door of the [Muhammad's] room there was a slave to whom I went and said, "Ask the permission for me to enter".....
- Mohammad owned slaves


Abu Dawud, vol. 2, chapter 597 - "On a Man who Beats His Slave While he is in the Sacred State (wearing Ihram)."

#1814- "(Abu Bakr) began to beat him (Bakr's slave) while the apostle of Allah was smiling and saying: "Look at this man who is in the sacred state, what is he doing?" [The note for this Hadith says "Abu Bakr beat his slave to teach him sense of responsibility."]

 

[Lefort3000]

"If a man acquires by force a slave-girl, then has sexual intercourse with her after he acquires her by force, and if he is not excused by ignorance, then the slave-girl will be taken from him, he is required to pay the fine, and he will receive the punishment for illegal sexual intercourse."
(Imam Al Shaafi'i, Kitaab'ul Umm, Volume 3, page 253)

And come not near unto adultery. Lo! it is an abomination and an evil way.
[Qur'an 17:32]

The adulterer and the adulteress, scourge ye each one of them (with) a hundred stripes. And let not pity for the twain withhold you from obedience to Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a party of believers witness their punishment.
[Qur'an 24:2]

Allaah says: (And force not your slave-girls to prostitution...) Among the people of the Jahiliyyah (ignorance), there were some who, if he had a slave-girl, he would send her out to commit Zina (adultery) and would charge money for that, which he would take from her every time. When Islam came, Allah forbade the believers to do that.
[Tafsir Ibn Kathir]

Narrated Abu Musa:
Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "He who has a slave-girl and educates and treats her nicely and then manumits and marries her, will get a double Ajr (reward)."
[Sahih Al-Bukhari]

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: "When the slave of anyone amongst you prepares food for him and he serves him after having sat close to (and undergoing the hardship of) heat and smoke, he should make him (the slave) sit along with him and make him eat (along with him), and if the food seems to run short, then he should spare some portion for him (from his own share).
[Sahih Muslim]

Abu Mas'ud al-Badri reported: "I was beating my slave with a whip when I heard a voice behind me: Understand, Abu Masud; but I did not recognise the voice due to intense anger. He (Abu Mas'ud) reported: As he came near me (I found) that he was the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) and he was saying: Bear in mind, Abu Mas'ud; bear in mind. Abu Mas'ud. He (Aba Maslad) said: threw the whip from my hand. Thereupon he (the Holy Prophet) said: Bear in mind, Abu Mas'ud; verily Allah has more dominance upon you than you have upon your slave. I (then) said: I would never beat my servant in future.
[Sahih Muslim,Book 015, Number 4086]

Zadhan Abl Umar reported: I came to Ibn 'Umar as he had granted freedom to a stave. He (the narrator further) said: He took hold of a wood or something like it from the earth and said: It (freedom of a slave) has not the reward evert equal to it, but the fact that I heard Allah's Messenger (way peace be upon him) say: He who slaps his slave or beats him, the expiation for it is that he should set him free.
[Sahih Muslim]

If any of you have not the means wherewith to wed free believing women, they may wed believing girls from among those whom your right hands possess: And Allah hath full knowledge about your faith. Ye are one from another: Wed them with the leave of their owners, and give them their dowers, according to what is reasonable: They should be chaste, not lustful, nor taking paramours: when they are taken in wedlock, if they fall into shame, their punishment is half that for free women. This (permission) is for those among you who fear sin; but it is better for you that ye practise self-restraint. And Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
[Qur'an 4:25]

Adultery doesnt apply when the husband gets killed. The first one doesnt exclude forced marriage (for legal sex). Hadiths 5 and 6 are conflicting with each other but positive. That last Quran verse only applies to Islamic women.

 

[Lefort3000]

1- Christianity is quite clear that ONLY CHRISTIANS are children of God-
"What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever?..Come out from among them and be separate, says the Lord, I will be a Father to you, and you shall be my sons and daughters" (2 Cor 6:14-18 )

2- If Jews are the children of God, I'm Mary Poppins!
He may have had their backs in the early days, but after they killed his son I doubt if he's going to cut them any slack at all and they'll go up the spout like all other Jesus-rejecters..

"How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot....it is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God" (Bible: Heb 10:29-31)

Pauline epistles are the least trustworthy part of the Bible imo.

Ah, but Christians say Jesus was the son of God, and muslims say "no he wasn't"; and you can't get more diametrically opposed than that, so it's definitely the naughty step for them..
"A liar denies Jesus is the Christ, and is an antichrist" (1 John 2:22/23)

The Quran acknowledges that Jesus was the Messiah, but then the implications of that are completely ignored. Mohammad is clearly the Messiah of the Quran, and according to modern Muslims like the ones here, the Jesus's "true Gospel" never survived whatsoever.

 

[Lefort3000]

Not true, the Farewell Sermon is far more significant for a lot of reasons:

Prophet Muhammad’s farewell sermon | Khutbatul-Wada’ | Jannat Al Quran

Prophet Muhammad’s farewell sermon, Khutbatul-Wada’ | 9 DhulHijjah 10 AH (9 March 632) at Mount Arafat | farewell pilgrimage

www.jannatalquran.com

Prophet Muhammad’s Last Sermon: A Final Admonition

The last sermon of Prophet Muhammad which he delivered at Hajj, the annual pilgrimage made to Mecca by Muslims all over.

www.islamreligion.com

Prophet Muhammad said:
"O People, lend me an attentive ear, for I know not whether after this year, I shall ever be amongst you again. Therefore, listen to what I am saying to you very carefully and take these words to those who could not be present here today.
O People, just as you regard this month, this day, this city as Sacred, so regard the life and property of every Muslim as a sacred trust. Return the goods entrusted to you to their rightful owners. Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you. Remember that you will indeed meet your Lord, and that He will indeed reckon your deeds. God has forbidden you to take usury (interest), therefore all interest obligation shall henceforth be waived. Your capital, however, is yours to keep. You will neither inflict nor suffer any inequity. God has Judged that there shall be no interest, and that all the interest due to Al-Abbas ibn Abd’el Muttalib shall henceforth be waived...
Beware of Satan, for the safety of your religion. He has lost all hope that he will ever be able to lead you astray in big things, so beware of following him in small things.
O People, it is true that you have certain rights with regard to your women, but they also have rights over you. Remember that you have taken them as your wives only under a trust from God and with His permission. If they abide by your right then to them belongs the right to be fed and clothed in kindness. Do treat your women well and be kind to them for they are your partners and committed helpers. And it is your right that they do not make friends with any one of whom you do not approve, as well as never to be unchaste.
O People, listen to me in earnest, worship God, perform your five daily prayers, fast during the month of Ramadan, and offer Zakat. Perform Hajj if you have the means.
All mankind is from Adam and Eve. An Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab, nor does a non-Arab have any superiority over an Arab; a white has no superiority over a black, nor does a black have any superiority over a white; [none have superiority over another] except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not, therefore, do injustice to yourselves.
Remember, one day you will appear before God and answer for your deeds. So beware, do not stray from the path of righteousness after I am gone.
O People, no prophet or apostle will come after me, and no new faith will be born. Reason well, therefore, O people, and understand words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the Quran and my example, the Sunnah, and if you follow these you will never go astray.
All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and it may be that the last ones understand my words better than those who listen to me directly. Be my witness, O God, that I have conveyed your message to your people."

That was a reply to Kung Fu, I messed up quoting him there.

Regardless, where is the historical source for this speech? The Quran, chronologically, only has chapter 110 after surah 9.

Chronological Order of the Qur'an

wikiislam.net

 

[Resistor]

That was a reply to Kung Fu, I messed up quoting him there.

Regardless, where is the historical source for this speech? The Quran, chronologically, only has chapter 110 after surah 9.

Chronological Order of the Qur'an

wikiislam.net

It's a widely reported Hadith and is present in most Sunni and Shia Hadith collections.
The Sermon took place months after that battle and was given to a large audience.
Surah 5:3 (the latter part of it - "Today I have perfected your religion.....") corresponds to this sermon, and was the actual last part of the Qur'an revealed (after #110).

The Farewell Sermon

The Farewell Sermon (Arabic: خطبة الوداع‎, Khuṭbatu l-Wadā'), also known as the Prophet's Final Sermon or The Last Sermon, was delivered by Muhammad about 72 days before his death, on the ninth day of Dhu al-Hijjah, 10 A.H. (632 CE), at the end of his final pilgrimage. The Farewell Sermon is...

religion.wikia.org

Home

Islam & The Global Muslim eCommunity - Explore - Connect - Elevate ( Faith - Society - Science - Politics )

www.islamicity.com

The Last Sermon Of The Prophet Muhammad

In this articulation of Muhammad, Muslims find their deep commitment to the universal human values such as sacredness of life and property, equality, justice, peace and more. Upon these high universal values, this religion of Islam was built.

www.huffpost.com

Also:

Prophet Muhammad's Last Sermon

 

[TokiEl]

Franklin may have been a Freemason, but Freemasons are not closet Muslims. Freemasonry and Islam are contradictory, and fundamentally opposed to one another. Freemasonry posits that man can become God, and is the master of his own self. Islam believes that there is no God but the One God, and that man's morals are determined thereby. This is to say nothing of the fundamental opposition of the geopolitical interests of the two ideologies, i.e. Zionism.

My point was that Franklin 'invoked a story of the Prophet Muhammad rebuking a cruel Muslim for not being merciful in times of conflict' as an example of how one ought to treat one's captives, i.e. Native Americans captured by European settlers in 1764.

High level masons absolutely are closet muslims and the Devil's trojan horses in former christian nations.

 

[pescatarian09]

High level masons absolutely are closet muslims and the Devil's trojan horses in former christian nations.

The antichrist is one-eyed but God (Allah, the Abrahamic deity) is not one-eyed:
Hadith – Bukhari 9.245, Narrated Anas
The Prophet (pbuh), “No prophet was sent but that he warned his followers against the one-eyed liar (Ad-Dajjal). Beware! He is blind in one eye, and your Lord is not so, and there will be written between his (Ad-Dajjal’s) eyes (the word) Kafir (i.e., disbeliever).”

Islam and the Quran are not esoteric, and don't have hidden, malevolent agendas.
Thus does Allah make clear the signs to you: that ye may understand. [Quran 24:61]

From VC's own article on one-eye symbolism and its significance:
In Islamic eschatology, the end-times figure named Al-Masīḥ ad-Dajjal (“the false messiah, liar, the deceiver”) is said to be blind in his right eye. By pretending to be the Messiah, the Dajjal would deceive and take over the world. For these reasons, the Dajjal bears great similarities with the Antichrist in Christianity.

The coming of the Dajjal would be preceded by several signs such as: People will stop offering the prayers; dishonesty will be the way of life; falsehood will become a virtue; people will mortgage their faith for worldly gain; usury and bribery will become legitimate; there will be acute famine at the time; there will be no shame amongst people; many people will worship Satan; there will be no respect for elderly people and people will start killing each other without any reason.

The One-Eye Sign: Its Origins and Occult Meaning

Why are there so many pictures of celebrities hiding one eye? It is definitely not random. In fact, the One-Eye sign has a profound meaning and proves an important fact about the powers that be. This article looks at the origins and the meaning of the unescapable One-Eye sign.

vigilantcitizen.com

When Muslims pray, as they do 5 times a day, we ask for God's protection from the tribulation of the antichrist.
(O Allah! I seek refuge in You from the torment of Hell, from the torment of the grave, from the trials of life and death, and from the mischief of Al-Masih Ad-Dajjal (Antichrist).” (Source Muslim 16:16)
Freemasons want to hasten the advent of the antichrist, and are preparing the world for his coming. Muslims are commanded to be Vigilant Citizens, and to actively resist his deceptions when he does enter the world. Prophet Muhammad said that all prophets who came before him warned their people of the antichrist.

On this site on the whole of the internet, people understand this. This is not the point of contention between Islam and Christians, at all. In fact, its one of the things they agree on most. Islamic and Christian eschatology are almost one and the same.

Spoiler: JFK on secret societies

* “The very word “secrecy” is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and to secret proceedings”


* “Today no war has been declared — and however fierce the struggle may be, it may never be declared in the traditional fashion. Our way of life is under attack”


* “We are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies primarily on covert means for expanding its sphere of influence — on infiltration instead of invasion, on subversion instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free choice, on guerrillas by night instead of armies by day”


* “It is a system which has conscripted vast human and material resources into the building of a tightly knit, highly efficient machine that combines military, diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific and political operations”

 

[Kung Fu]

Lefort, I don't have the time I used to on here. To keep this more specific and not so chaotic tell me what you're most interested in and we can have a discussion on that.

Would you like to discuss slavery, warfare, the Quran authenticating the Bible, or perhaps something else? I'm guessing it's slavery and if so just let me know and I'll reply to all your posts in regards to slavery.

 

[TokiEl]

The antichrist is one-eyed but God (Allah, the Abrahamic deity) is not one-eyed

You are mixing the God of israel and the god of islam who are two completely different entities.

Freemasons want to hasten the advent of the antichrist, and are preparing the world for his coming.

That's what the shia sect wants as well.

 

[pescatarian09]

You are mixing the God of israel and the god of islam who are two completely different entities.


That's what the shia sect wants as well.

Do you agree with this? I'm interested to see what you think.

In Islamic eschatology, the end-times figure named Al-Masīḥ ad-Dajjal (“the false messiah, liar, the deceiver”) is said to be blind in his right eye. By pretending to be the Messiah, the Dajjal would deceive and take over the world. For these reasons, the Dajjal bears great similarities with the Antichrist in Christianity.

The coming of the Dajjal would be preceded by several signs such as: People will stop offering the prayers; dishonesty will be the way of life; falsehood will become a virtue; people will mortgage their faith for worldly gain; usury and bribery will become legitimate; there will be acute famine at the time; there will be no shame amongst people; many people will worship Satan; there will be no respect for elderly people and people will start killing each other without any reason.

(From VC's article on one-eye symbolism and its significance)

The One-Eye Sign: Its Origins and Occult Meaning

Why are there so many pictures of celebrities hiding one eye? It is definitely not random. In fact, the One-Eye sign has a profound meaning and proves an important fact about the powers that be. This article looks at the origins and the meaning of the unescapable One-Eye sign.

vigilantcitizen.com

These surely bear similarity to the prophecies mentioned in Christian eschatology.

 

[TokiEl]

Do you agree with this? I'm interested to see what you think.

In Islamic eschatology, the end-times figure named Al-Masīḥ ad-Dajjal (“the false messiah, liar, the deceiver”) is said to be blind in his right eye. By pretending to be the Messiah, the Dajjal would deceive and take over the world. For these reasons, the Dajjal bears great similarities with the Antichrist in Christianity.

Islamic eschatology is just a distorted copy of christian eschatology.

The coming of the Dajjal would be preceded by several signs such as: People will stop offering the prayers; dishonesty will be the way of life; falsehood will become a virtue; people will mortgage their faith for worldly gain; usury and bribery will become legitimate; there will be acute famine at the time; there will be no shame amongst people; many people will worship Satan; there will be no respect for elderly people and people will start killing each other without any reason.

These surely bear similarity to the prophecies mentioned in Christian eschatology.

This is christian eschatology and just copied by islam.

 

[pescatarian09]

This is christian eschatology and just copied by islam.

This statement has some remnant of truth because Muhammad (peace be upon him) taught that all Prophets of God before him warned their people of the false messiah. So just as Isa (Jesus, peace be upon him) warned his people of the antichrist and his deceptions, so Muhammad warned his nation of the deception of the false messiah in the end days. It was not copied in the sense that there were original Christian texts available to Muhammad, and these were then plagiarised, but in the sense that God was merely repeating the same message given to previous Prophets.

 

[TokiEl]

This statement has some remnant of truth because Muhammad (peace be upon him) taught that all Prophets of God before him warned their people of the false messiah.

Some remnant of truth...?L0L

It is truth.

 

[pescatarian09]

Some remnant of truth...?L0L

It is truth.

It was not copied in the sense that there were original Christian texts available to Muhammad, and these were then plagiarised (how on earth would that work?), but in the sense that God was merely repeating the same message given to previous Prophets.

There is a logical continuity in the messages of successive prophets, and not merely in eschatology:

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.
[Deuteronomy 6:4]

Say: He is Allah the One and Only
[Quran 112:1]