This is what Islam is...

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I find the whole thing fascinating (as I do with the Great pyramid and its potential reference in Isaiah 19:19 and more).

The more I look into things, the more they seem to be a battle between stories and accounts of how things are. There seem to be closely twined ideas emerging from the beginning, like poison ivy attempting to choke out a growing tree.

Which narrative represents the ivy, and which one the tree will one day be abundantly clear, I think, @Kais_1
 





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I find the whole thing fascinating (as I do with the Great pyramid and its potential reference in Isaiah 19:19 and more).

The more I look into things, the more they seem to be a battle between stories and accounts of how things are. There seem to be closely twined ideas emerging from the beginning, like poison ivy attempting to choke out a growing tree.

Which narrative represents the ivy, and which one the tree will one day be abundantly clear, I think, @Kais_1
The constellation of the Furrow is the precursor of our modern-day Virgo. The Babylonian figure is represented among the stars as the goddess Šala who holds the familiar ear of barley in her hands. As a seasonal symbol she represents the autumn seeding season when farmers use the seed plough to plant seed in the newly prepared fields. Over the summer months, fallow land was prepared for the coming growing season. The fields were first cleared of natural vegetation before being levelled, and then they were ploughed and harrowed to break down the soil to a workable state.

taken from

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/babylonian_virgo.pdf
 





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The constellation of the Furrow is the precursor of our modern-day Virgo. The Babylonian figure is represented among the stars as the goddess Šala who holds the familiar ear of barley in her hands. As a seasonal symbol she represents the autumn seeding season when farmers use the seed plough to plant seed in the newly prepared fields. Over the summer months, fallow land was prepared for the coming growing season. The fields were first cleared of natural vegetation before being levelled, and then they were ploughed and harrowed to break down the soil to a workable state.

taken from

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/babylonian_virgo.pdf
Psalm 147

4 He telleth the number of the stars; he calleth them all by their names.

The question is this - if this Psalm is true, elwhen do you suppose God named the stars - before or after the Sumarians?

Additionally, if Satan objected to the story in the names of the stars, at what point do you suppose the idea of creating a counter-attack be occurred to him?
 





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Is Allah the same god as Jehovah?

The God of Christianity and the Allah of Islam share some titles and characteristics in common, and many people believe that God and Allah are one and the same. Reasoning that God and Allah are the same, some have suggested that Christians should call Jehovah God by the name “Allah” to ease Christian/Muslim tensions. But are they one person? Is the God of the Bible the Allah of the Qu’ran?

Commonalities

Consider what Muslims say about the name Allah. “Allah is the personal name of the One true God,” says the Institute of Islamic Information and Education. Christians also believe the same thing about their God. In the Bible, Moses says, “The LORD our God is one LORD” (Deuteronomy 6:4). Recording God’s own words, Isaiah writes, Thus saith the LORD…I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me…” (Isaiah 45:1,5). Either these verses refer to the same deity or else these verses identify one exclusive divinity. Which is it?
Muslims believe that Allah is the creator, that he is eternal, the first and the last, and that he is merciful and compassionate. Christians believe the same things about the God of the Bible.
From these examples, we might conclude that God and Allah indeed could be the same deity. But there is more.

Jesus: God’s Son

The God of the Bible has a Son. The Old Testament refers numerous times to God’s Son, both literally and figuratively. Psalm 2:7 prophecies this: “I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.”
Proverbs 30:4 says, “who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son’s name, if thou canst tell?” Many other Old Testament Scriptures confirm that God has a Son. And of course, the New Testament is all about God’s Son, Jesus.

God also revealed His Son figuratively through the lives of His people as recorded in the Old Testament. For instance, Abraham and Isaac enacted the Son’s sacrifice when Abraham laid Isaac on the altar. Jesus declared that this incident was a revelation of Himself, the Son of God, when He told the Jews, “Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad” (John 8:56).

The Bible makes it clear that salvation comes through God’s Son, Jesus Christ. Jesus prayed,“And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent” (John 17:3).

However, the Qu’ran says, “God forbid that He Himself should beget a son!…Those who say: ‘The Lord of Mercy has begotten a son,’ preach a monstrous falsehood.”

Allah cannot be the Christian’s God, because the God of the Bible definitely has a Son.

The Bible is inflexible on this point: “Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father” (1 John 2:23). To call God “Allah,” then, would be to deny the Son and the Father, too.

Jesus plainly says, “No man cometh unto the Father, but by me” (John 14:6). It is by the death of God’s Son that we are saved. There would be no salvation without Him.

Paul declares, “And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh” (1 Timothy 3:16). The whole plan of salvation hinges on this very point: God came in the person of His Son Jesus Christ to redeem humanity for Himself. Allah did no such thing. For Christians to call God Allah negates the very plan of salvation.

Different Entities

A comparison of the Qu’ran and the Bible gives irrefutable evidence that the God of the Bible and Allah are two very different entities. God declared in Isaiah 42:8, I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another…”

God commanded reverence for His holy name. The third commandment which protects the holiness of God’s name comes with a warning: “Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain” (Exodus 20:7). To think that we can call the God of the Bible“Allah” would not only be a mistake, it would be blasphemous because the names God” and Allah” refer to two different entities.

It’s true that some Christians, when working for the salvation of Muslims, use the name Allah in reference to the God of the Bible when they first connect with Muslims so they can talk about the Deity. When it has been established that the God of the Bible is different from Allah, however, to continue referring to the God of the Bible as “Allah” would only be confusing, since the God of the Bible is a very different character from Allah. God, the Father of Adam, Abraham, Jesus and of all Christians is not Allah of the Qu’ran.

https://amazingdiscoveries.org/blog/allah-god-jehovah/
Very good response, I love how clear and loud it is. God is not a deity though, HE IS THE ONE AND ONLY CREATOR AND ALMIGHTY GOD. Not to be "downgraded" to a deity.

GOD has a name. Look up Tetragrammaton. YWHW is his name, or pronounced YAHWEH and in English JEHOVAH.
THE LORD is just a title that has replaced his PERSONAL NAME. Like Policeman, Banker, CEO but all these people with titles have NAMES. Josh the policeman, Larry the banker and Grant the CEO. So why should GOD be any different?? His name is YAHWEH, JEHOVAH, JAH or However YOU pronounce it in your native Language.

I think calling God by his title and not his name makes us be farther away from him when he wants us to be closer to him. Much like a father is close to his son and vice-versa. Calling someone you know very well by their name makes you feel more familiar and closer to him/her. Instead of always calling someone neighbor, teacher, aunt, cousin, YOU ALWAYS call them by their personal names. So why should it be different with GOD?

So when saying the LORD is it referring to God Yahweh or Jesus? for Jesus is also referred to as the Lord. And they are NOT the same person as Phipps mentioned, the scriptures are CLEAR there is a FATHER and a Son, both referred to as the Lord. But like I said, mention God by his personal name, after all, he WANTS YOU TO.
 





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Very good response, I love how clear and loud it is. God is not a deity though, HE IS THE ONE AND ONLY CREATOR AND ALMIGHTY GOD. Not to be "downgraded" to a deity.

GOD has a name. Look up Tetragrammaton. YWHW is his name, or pronounced YAHWEH and in English JEHOVAH.
THE LORD is just a title that has replaced his PERSONAL NAME. Like Policeman, Banker, CEO but all these people with titles have NAMES. Josh the policeman, Larry the banker and Grant the CEO. So why should GOD be any different?? His name is YAHWEH, JEHOVAH, JAH or However YOU pronounce it in your native Language.

I think calling God by his title and not his name makes us be farther away from him when he wants us to be closer to him. Much like a father is close to his son and vice-versa. Calling someone you know very well by their name makes you feel more familiar and closer to him/her. Instead of always calling someone neighbor, teacher, aunt, cousin, YOU ALWAYS call them by their personal names. So why should it be different with GOD?

So when saying the LORD is it referring to God Yahweh or Jesus? for Jesus is also referred to as the Lord. And they are NOT the same person as Phipps mentioned, the scriptures are CLEAR there is a FATHER and a Son, both referred to as the Lord. But like I said, mention God by his personal name, after all, he WANTS YOU TO.
The 14 Names of God
  1. Adonai: Lord God – Adonai is the plural form of adon (Lord) and means ‘My Lords’, referring to the Trinity. Adonai is never said out loud by Orthodox Jews, leading to its replacement by the title, HaShem (The Name). As the message of Yeshua is restored to the Jewish people, they will say, “Baruch Haba B’Shem Adonai” – “Blessed is He who comes in the Name of the Lord!”
  2. Yahweh: God The name of Godused most often in the Hebrew Bible is YHWH known as a tetragrammaton (four-letter word). Hebrew is read right-to-left so the letters Yōd, Hē, Vav and Hē are taken for consonantsand expanded to Yahweh or Jehovah in English.
  3. El Shaddai: God AlmightyThe all sufficient God of the Mighty Breasted One. It’s an expression that reflects on God’s strength, majesty, and power. When translated into English, it is usually rendered as: God Almighty. “He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High will abide in the shadow of the Almighty.” (Psalm 91:1)
  4. El Roi: The God who sees me Hagar, Sarai’s maidservant, fled her jealous master who treated her harshly after she bore Abram’s child. Wandering in the wilderness, desperate and alone, an angel of the Lord appears before Hagar to bring her comfort. Hagar declares, in Genesis 16:13, “You are El Roi!” You are God who sees me!”Never believe you are alone, even in your darkest troubles. “The Lord is good, a stronghold in the day of trouble and He knows those who take refuge in Him.” (Nahum 1:7)
  5. Elohim: Father God / God the Creator In the beginning [Elohim] created the heavens and the earth (Gen. 1:1). This name comes from being in awe of His power displayed throughout nature. He is the Sovereign God, and God of Eternity. In the beginning, He created – just by the power of His spoken Word. What an amazing God we serve! “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created…” (Colossians 1:15-16)
  6. Yahweh Yireh: God Provides When Abraham went up the mountain to sacrifice his son, he made this faith-filled statement: “God Himself will provide a lamb”. And Yahweh Yireh did provide! He supplied a ram to be sacrificed instead of Isaac. Abraham memorializes this divine intervention with the name Yireh, for the Lord’s unfailing grace and constant provision. For the Lord sees and provides for our every need! “And my God will supply all your needs according to His riches in glory in Christ Jesus.”(Philippians. 4:19)
  7. Yahweh Ropheka: The God who Heals He is our Healer, in both body and soul! Psalm 147:3 says, “He heals the brokenhearted and binds up their wounds.” This name assures each of us that our Heavenly Father wants to restore us to wholeness. “Bless the Lord, O my soul, and forget none of His benefits; Who pardons all your iniquities, Who heals all your diseases.” (Psalm 103:2-3)
  8. Jealous God, Consuming Fire Our God is a jealous God, desiring our praise to be for Him alone. His jealousy is not out of selfishness, but a passionate love saying, “never will I leave you, never will I forsake you”. It is because of His burning love for us that His jealousy is so great. “For the Lord your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.” (Deuteronomy 4:24) Give Him your whole heart today.
  9. Yahweh Nissi: The Lord is my Banner We hear this name declared by the Israelites after a victorious battle (Exodus 17:15). Banners are like today’s flags. They are lifted to a height where they can be seen as a reminder that symbolizes: security, hope, and freedom. With the Lord as our Banner we are assured victory, we can run and not grow weary, and have peace and joy! “His banner over me is love” (Song of Songs 2:4)
  10. Yahweh Shalom: The God of Peace Gideon was afraid he would die after seeing the angel of the Lord face to face. But the Lord said to him, “Peace to you, do not fear; you shall not die”. This had such an impact on Gideon that he built an altar there and named it Yahweh Shalom (Judges 6:22-24). Shalom speaks of wholeness, harmony, and completeness. Shalom is not dependent on circumstances. True peace comes only from complete trust in the Lord in all areas of our lives. “Now may the Lord of peace Himself continually grant you peace in every circumstance. The Lord be with you all!” (2 Thessalonians 3:16)
  11. Yahweh Tsuri: God is My Rock. God is described as our Rock throughout the books of the prophets and Psalms. He is immovable, unbreakable, a safe place for retreat, and a fortress in battle! He is our true source of strength, our firm foundation, our support, and our defense. Cling to Him amidst all circumstances! “Trust in the Lord forever, for in God the Lord, we have an everlasting Rock.” (Isaiah 26:4)
  12. Yahweh Tsebaoth: The Lord of Hosts. Appearing over 250 times in the Old Testament, this name can also be translated as ‘The Lord of Armies’. It captivates His sovereignty over all spiritual and physical armies. He is the Lord of Hosts and gives charge to a multitude of heavenly beings to face our adversaries. The King of the universe is fighting on our behalf- the victory is already ours. “‘Cease striving and know that I am God; I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth.’ The Lord of hosts is with us; The God of Jacob is our stronghold.” (Psalm 46:10-11)
  13. El Olam: The Eternal God. This name teaches us that God created time, yet exists outside of and beyond it. Before the creation of the universe there was God with no beginning and no end. All things we know of change through time, yet our Father never does. This means the character of God, His Word, His Kingdom, and all He stands for never change and never end. That means we have a unceasing, dependable, trustworthy and consistent God! God has eternity in view for you. “Lord, You have been our dwelling place for all generations… even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God.” (Psalm 90:1-2) He is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
  14. Yeshua: Jesus. Beloved, there is no more important question that we must be prepared to answer than: “Who Do You Say at I Am?”(Matthew 16:15). This is the question Jesus asked his disciples and the only sound conclusion was that He was who He said He was, and is who He said He is – Lord, Messiah and Saviour.
 





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"... Hence just as the furtive savage conceals his real name because he fears that sorcerers might make an evil use of it, so he fancies that his gods must likewise keep their true name secret, lest other gods or even men should learn the mystic sounds and thus be able to conjure with them. Nowhere was this crude conception of the secrecy and magical virtue of the divine name more firmly held or more fully developed than in ancient Egypt ... [E]very Egyptian magician aspired to wield like powers by similar means. For it was believed that he who possessed the true name possessed the very being of god or man, and could force even a deity to obey him as a slave obeys his master. Thus the art of the magician consisted in obtaining from the gods a revelation of their sacred names ... "
Sir James Fraser
The Golden Bough (p. 235b)

"The origin of the taboo on pronouncing God’s name [the tetragrammaton] aloud — viewing this as irreverent or possibly even a violation of the commandment not to take God’s name in vain — is not entirely clear. However, some attribute it to a Temple practice in which only the High Priest was allowed to utter the name, and only when in the Temple and reciting the priestly blessing. In the Mishnah ... as Rabbi Louis Jacobs notes in The Jewish Religion, the sage Abba Saul declares that one who pronounces the divine name with its letters (i.e. as it is spelled) has no share in the World to Come.

Some Jews and non-Jews have suggested that the name itself has magical power, an idea that Maimonides dismissed but that is embraced in some Kabbalistic (Jewish mystical) texts."
source
 





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"... Hence just as the furtive savage conceals his real name because he fears that sorcerers might make an evil use of it, so he fancies that his gods must likewise keep their true name secret, lest other gods or even men should learn the mystic sounds and thus be able to conjure with them. Nowhere was this crude conception of the secrecy and magical virtue of the divine name more firmly held or more fully developed than in ancient Egypt ... [E]very Egyptian magician aspired to wield like powers by similar means. For it was believed that he who possessed the true name possessed the very being of god or man, and could force even a deity to obey him as a slave obeys his master. Thus the art of the magician consisted in obtaining from the gods a revelation of their sacred names ... "



"The origin of the taboo on pronouncing God’s name [the tetragrammaton] aloud — viewing this as irreverent or possibly even a violation of the commandment not to take God’s name in vain — is not entirely clear. However, some attribute it to a Temple practice in which only the High Priest was allowed to utter the name, and only when in the Temple and reciting the priestly blessing. In the Mishnah ... as Rabbi Louis Jacobs notes in The Jewish Religion, the sage Abba Saul declares that one who pronounces the divine name with its letters (i.e. as it is spelled) has no share in the World to Come.


Some Jews and non-Jews have suggested that the name itself has magical power, an idea that Maimonides dismissed but that is embraced in some Kabbalistic (Jewish mystical) texts."

in islam its called the IZM E AZAM....
 





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The 14 Names of God
  1. Adonai: Lord God – Adonai is the plural form of adon (Lord) and means ‘My Lords’, referring to the Trinity. Adonai is never said out loud by Orthodox Jews, leading to its replacement by the title, HaShem (The Name). As the message of Yeshua is restored to the Jewish people, they will say, “Baruch Haba B’Shem Adonai” – “Blessed is He who comes in the Name of the Lord!”
  2. Yahweh: God The name of Godused most often in the Hebrew Bible is YHWH known as a tetragrammaton (four-letter word). Hebrew is read right-to-left so the letters Yōd, Hē, Vav and Hē are taken for consonantsand expanded to Yahweh or Jehovah in English.
  3. El Shaddai: God AlmightyThe all sufficient God of the Mighty Breasted One. It’s an expression that reflects on God’s strength, majesty, and power. When translated into English, it is usually rendered as: God Almighty. “He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High will abide in the shadow of the Almighty.” (Psalm 91:1)
  4. El Roi: The God who sees me Hagar, Sarai’s maidservant, fled her jealous master who treated her harshly after she bore Abram’s child. Wandering in the wilderness, desperate and alone, an angel of the Lord appears before Hagar to bring her comfort. Hagar declares, in Genesis 16:13, “You are El Roi!” You are God who sees me!”Never believe you are alone, even in your darkest troubles. “The Lord is good, a stronghold in the day of trouble and He knows those who take refuge in Him.” (Nahum 1:7)
  5. Elohim: Father God / God the Creator In the beginning [Elohim] created the heavens and the earth (Gen. 1:1). This name comes from being in awe of His power displayed throughout nature. He is the Sovereign God, and God of Eternity. In the beginning, He created – just by the power of His spoken Word. What an amazing God we serve! “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created…” (Colossians 1:15-16)
  6. Yahweh Yireh: God Provides When Abraham went up the mountain to sacrifice his son, he made this faith-filled statement: “God Himself will provide a lamb”. And Yahweh Yireh did provide! He supplied a ram to be sacrificed instead of Isaac. Abraham memorializes this divine intervention with the name Yireh, for the Lord’s unfailing grace and constant provision. For the Lord sees and provides for our every need! “And my God will supply all your needs according to His riches in glory in Christ Jesus.”(Philippians. 4:19)
  7. Yahweh Ropheka: The God who Heals He is our Healer, in both body and soul! Psalm 147:3 says, “He heals the brokenhearted and binds up their wounds.” This name assures each of us that our Heavenly Father wants to restore us to wholeness. “Bless the Lord, O my soul, and forget none of His benefits; Who pardons all your iniquities, Who heals all your diseases.” (Psalm 103:2-3)
  8. Jealous God, Consuming Fire Our God is a jealous God, desiring our praise to be for Him alone. His jealousy is not out of selfishness, but a passionate love saying, “never will I leave you, never will I forsake you”. It is because of His burning love for us that His jealousy is so great. “For the Lord your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.” (Deuteronomy 4:24) Give Him your whole heart today.
  9. Yahweh Nissi: The Lord is my Banner We hear this name declared by the Israelites after a victorious battle (Exodus 17:15). Banners are like today’s flags. They are lifted to a height where they can be seen as a reminder that symbolizes: security, hope, and freedom. With the Lord as our Banner we are assured victory, we can run and not grow weary, and have peace and joy! “His banner over me is love” (Song of Songs 2:4)
  10. Yahweh Shalom: The God of Peace Gideon was afraid he would die after seeing the angel of the Lord face to face. But the Lord said to him, “Peace to you, do not fear; you shall not die”. This had such an impact on Gideon that he built an altar there and named it Yahweh Shalom (Judges 6:22-24). Shalom speaks of wholeness, harmony, and completeness. Shalom is not dependent on circumstances. True peace comes only from complete trust in the Lord in all areas of our lives. “Now may the Lord of peace Himself continually grant you peace in every circumstance. The Lord be with you all!” (2 Thessalonians 3:16)
  11. Yahweh Tsuri: God is My Rock. God is described as our Rock throughout the books of the prophets and Psalms. He is immovable, unbreakable, a safe place for retreat, and a fortress in battle! He is our true source of strength, our firm foundation, our support, and our defense. Cling to Him amidst all circumstances! “Trust in the Lord forever, for in God the Lord, we have an everlasting Rock.” (Isaiah 26:4)
  12. Yahweh Tsebaoth: The Lord of Hosts. Appearing over 250 times in the Old Testament, this name can also be translated as ‘The Lord of Armies’. It captivates His sovereignty over all spiritual and physical armies. He is the Lord of Hosts and gives charge to a multitude of heavenly beings to face our adversaries. The King of the universe is fighting on our behalf- the victory is already ours. “‘Cease striving and know that I am God; I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth.’ The Lord of hosts is with us; The God of Jacob is our stronghold.” (Psalm 46:10-11)
  13. El Olam: The Eternal God. This name teaches us that God created time, yet exists outside of and beyond it. Before the creation of the universe there was God with no beginning and no end. All things we know of change through time, yet our Father never does. This means the character of God, His Word, His Kingdom, and all He stands for never change and never end. That means we have a unceasing, dependable, trustworthy and consistent God! God has eternity in view for you. “Lord, You have been our dwelling place for all generations… even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God.” (Psalm 90:1-2) He is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
  14. Yeshua: Jesus. Beloved, there is no more important question that we must be prepared to answer than: “Who Do You Say at I Am?”(Matthew 16:15). This is the question Jesus asked his disciples and the only sound conclusion was that He was who He said He was, and is who He said He is – Lord, Messiah and Saviour.
This is AWESOME :) His name alongside the titles that speak of his greatness <3 Love it!

I just wanted to add that Hagar was sent away because Abraham told her to leave as Ishmael her son kept bullying little Isaac and God was not going to allow Isaac to undergo such treatment.
 





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"... Hence just as the furtive savage conceals his real name because he fears that sorcerers might make an evil use of it, so he fancies that his gods must likewise keep their true name secret, lest other gods or even men should learn the mystic sounds and thus be able to conjure with them. Nowhere was this crude conception of the secrecy and magical virtue of the divine name more firmly held or more fully developed than in ancient Egypt ... [E]very Egyptian magician aspired to wield like powers by similar means. For it was believed that he who possessed the true name possessed the very being of god or man, and could force even a deity to obey him as a slave obeys his master. Thus the art of the magician consisted in obtaining from the gods a revelation of their sacred names ... "



"The origin of the taboo on pronouncing God’s name [the tetragrammaton] aloud — viewing this as irreverent or possibly even a violation of the commandment not to take God’s name in vain — is not entirely clear. However, some attribute it to a Temple practice in which only the High Priest was allowed to utter the name, and only when in the Temple and reciting the priestly blessing. In the Mishnah ... as Rabbi Louis Jacobs notes in The Jewish Religion, the sage Abba Saul declares that one who pronounces the divine name with its letters (i.e. as it is spelled) has no share in the World to Come.


Some Jews and non-Jews have suggested that the name itself has magical power, an idea that Maimonides dismissed but that is embraced in some Kabbalistic (Jewish mystical) texts."

That is exactly what God's enemy wants you to do, to discourage yourself and others from using his Holy name. It doesn't matter what other imperfect human beings want you to think, it matters what God thinks. If you want to be led away from being close to God and loving him, your choice, but don't make others do the same. In the end God is the ULTIMATE JUDGE.
 





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That is exactly what God's enemy wants you to do, to discourage yourself and others from using his Holy name. It doesn't matter what other imperfect human beings want you to think, it matters what God thinks. If you want to be led away from being close to God and loving him, your choice, but don't make others do the same. In the end God is the ULTIMATE JUDGE.
I am not looking to get into a toss, or conflict, but how, exactly, can one "use" what you call God's holy name if, given the fact that it is comprised of consonants, with no vowels, nobody seems to know how to pronounce it? I think the Kabbalists and others say that, if one knows how to pronounce the mystery name, or names, of God, one can, in essence, work wonders and perform miracles. And that, it seems to me, ties directly into the quote by Sir James Fraser in my above post.
 





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This is AWESOME :) His name alongside the titles that speak of his greatness <3 Love it!

I just wanted to add that Hagar was sent away because Abraham told her to leave as Ishmael her son kept bullying little Isaac and God was not going to allow Isaac to undergo such treatment.
Actually, Sarah was the one who told Abraham/Avraham to do so. But I knew what you meant.
Genesis 21:9-13 (NIV)
9 But Sarah saw that the son whom Hagar the Egyptian had borne to Abraham was mocking, 10 and she said to Abraham, “Get rid of that slave woman and her son, for that woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with my son Isaac.”11 The matter distressed Abraham greatly because it concerned his son. 12 But God said to him, “Do not be so distressed about the boy and your slave woman. Listen to whatever Sarah tells you, because it is through Isaac that your offspring[a] will be reckoned. 13 I will make the son of the slave into a nation also, because he is your offspring.”
 





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This is AWESOME :) His name alongside the titles that speak of his greatness <3 Love it!

I just wanted to add that Hagar was sent away because Abraham told her to leave as Ishmael her son kept bullying little Isaac and God was not going to allow Isaac to undergo such treatment.
Not really. Abraham shouldn't have engaged in polygamy to begin with and it caused distress in his house i.e. a house divided against itself cannot stand. He was promised a son through Sarah but their faith was weak and they took it upon themselves to procure a son via Hagar. Ishmael wasn't abandoned by God but personally I don't believe it was a positive environment for Ishmael or his mother. I don't see polygamy ever working especially when it never ever did in the bible.
 





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I am not looking to get into a toss, or conflict, but how, exactly, can one "use" what you call God's holy name if, given the fact that it is comprised of consonants, with no vowels, nobody seems to know how to pronounce it? I think the Kabbalists and others say that, if one knows how to pronounce the mystery name, or names, of God, one can, in essence, work wonders and perform miracles. And that, it seems to me, ties directly into the quote by Sir James Fraser in my above post.
I understand. How many people do we know personally that can teach us Hebrew? Humans have acquired much knowledge since YHWH was inscribed so whatever is available to us from that knowledge then we'll use that. We're intelligent beings so we can figure a lot of things out and not depend on what other people say (specially those that are far away from God and don't care to learn about him nor read his word). God's name is no mystery. It's written more than 7,000 times in the Bible, the Bible translations that have kept his name of course. I use God's name everyday and I cannot perform miracles nor work wonders.
 





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Not really. Abraham shouldn't have engaged in polygamy to begin with and it caused distress in his house i.e. a house divided against itself cannot stand. He was promised a son through Sarah but their faith was weak and they took it upon themselves to procure a son via Hagar. Ishmael wasn't abandoned by God but personally I don't believe it was a positive environment for Ishmael or his mother. I don't see polygamy ever working especially when it never ever did in the bible.
That is so true. I always felt sorry for Leah, thinking Jacob might love her for bearing him 3 sons back to back and then with Judah "This time I will praise the LORD." It never worked.

Conversely, I don't think a woman married to two men would work either even though Paint Your Wagon had fun with that premise.
 





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Actually, Sarah was the one who told Abraham/Avraham to do so. But I knew what you meant.
Genesis 21:9-13 (NIV)
9 But Sarah saw that the son whom Hagar the Egyptian had borne to Abraham was mocking, 10 and she said to Abraham, “Get rid of that slave woman and her son, for that woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with my son Isaac.”11 The matter distressed Abraham greatly because it concerned his son. 12 But God said to him, “Do not be so distressed about the boy and your slave woman. Listen to whatever Sarah tells you, because it is through Isaac that your offspring[a] will be reckoned. 13 I will make the son of the slave into a nation also, because he is your offspring.”
Not to quibble, but does anybody know the "law," or Torah, well enough to know, given that polygyny was legal, once Abraham took Hagar for childbearing, did she stop being a "slave" and became, technically, a "wife?" If so, why is the author of the above section of Genesis continuing to refer to Hagar as Abraham's "slave woman," or, presumably and alternately, his "concubine," when she is, or was, by then his wife?
 





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Not to quibble, but does anybody know the "law," or Torah, well enough to know, given that polygamy was legal, once Abraham took Hagar for childbearing, did she stop being a "slave" and became, technically, a "wife?" If so, why is the author of the above section of Genesis continuing to refer to Hagar as Abraham's "slave woman," or, presumably and alternately, his "concubine," when she is, or was, by then his wife?
I'll look into that, @Serveto . Seriously. I do observe Shabbat so it may be awhile. Slowly learning Hebrew, too, and need to get back to that since I'm sure @Red Sky at Morning has surpassed me. :)
 





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I'll look into that, @Serveto . Seriously. I do observe Shabbat so it may be awhile. Slowly learning Hebrew, too, and need to get back to that since I'm sure @Red Sky at Morning has surpassed me. :)
Shabbat Shalom! I just exchanged a bunch of group texts, on my cell phone, which said those same two words :). By the way, I've changed the word, polygamy, in my above post with the more accurate "polygyny."
 





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Not to quibble, but does anybody know the "law," or Torah, well enough to know, given that polygyny was legal, once Abraham took Hagar for childbearing, did she stop being a "slave" and became, technically, a "wife?" If so, why is the author of the above section of Genesis continuing to refer to Hagar as Abraham's "slave woman," or, presumably and alternately, his "concubine," when she is, or was, by then his wife?
I'll be honest, from my perspective she was still a slave because she didn't count. God didn't give Adam two women, he didn't give David two women, he didn't give Solomon two women, he didn't his word into the world through a woman with multiple husband or with other wives. Jesus only has one bride, God only had Israel as his wife.
 





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Shabbat Shalom to you, too, @Serveto !

I did go ahead and look it up here. Looks like it's bondwoman and/or maid.

Genesis 21:9-13 OJB (Orthodox Jewish Bible)

9 And Sarah saw the ben (son) of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had borne unto Avraham, metzachek (mocking, scoffing).
10 Therefore she said unto Avraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her ben: for the ben of this bondwoman shall not be heir with beni (my son), even with Yitzchak.
11 And the thing was very grievous in the eyes of Avraham because of bno (son or boy).
12 And Elohim said unto Avraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the na'ar (young man, child, boy), and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, shema (pay heed) unto her voice; for in Yitzchak shall thy zera (seed) be called.
13 And also of the ben haamah (son of the bondwoman) will I make a nation, because he is thy zera.

It's in the Torah portion Parasha Vayyera (And He Appeared) Bereshis/Genesis 18:1-22:24.

amah: a maid, handmaid
Original Word: אָמָה
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: amah
Phonetic Spelling: (aw-maw')
Definition: a maid, handmaid
 





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It's a matter of law, and Torah, even if Abraham predated Moses ...

"The Mosaic law, while permitting polygamy, introduced many provisions which tended to confine it to narrower limits, and to lessen the abuse that might arise in connection with it. The Israelitish [note the Biblical authors describe Hagar as "Egyptian," which then exempts her from the following rights] woman slave who was taken as a wife by the son of her master was entitled to all the rights of matrimony (see Husband and Wife), even after he had taken another wife; and if they were withheld from her, she had to be set free (Ex. xxi. 9-11; see Slaves). One who lived in bigamy might not show his preference for the children of the more favored wife [Sarah] by depriving the first-born son [Ishmael] of the less favored one [Hagar] of his rights of inheritance (Deut. xxi. 15-17; see Inheritance)."


When it came to "inheritance," and the rights of "primogeniture," established as God-ordained throughout the Old Testament, it seems to me that Ishmael got the shaft, and that because his mother was an "Egyptian."
That's definitely one way to approach it but more out the opinion that Israel's laws weren't applicable to Abraham at the time and maintain my position lol. I don't think Ishmael got the shaft though because he still received the following. Ishmael wasn't meant to receive the covenant because he wasn't the promised son for Abraham.

Genesis 17:19-20 KJV
And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him. [20] And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.

Exodus 21:9-11 KJV
And if he have betrothed her unto his son, he shall deal with her after the manner of daughters. [10] If he take him another wife ; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish. [11] And if he do not these three unto her, then shall she go out free without money.