This is what Islam is...

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#61
No, they weren’t written by Moses and there is a 500 year gap between Chapters 1 & 2.

Look if you honestly research how the Bible came to be you will see it is not constructed as fundamentalism leads you to believe.

I could cite numerous scholars to support my claims but there’s always a few fundie scholars out there that could give you a counter-claim.
Most scholars this late at the end of the age are in the pocket of the forces of darkness and deception. Their salary depends on that and truths are not convenient to them.


Anyway I’m not bashing the Bible or anyone’s belief in it, but for me it’s rewarding and enlightening to take it allegorically and I don’t have to perform mental gymnastics to explain away all the historical and scientific inaccuracies and continuation errors.
What inaccuracies and errors ?
 





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#62
Praise be to Allaah.

"There is no basis in shareeah for taking the crescent or star as a symbol of the Muslims. This was not known at the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), or at the time of the Khulafa al-Raashidoon (the first four leaders of Islam after the death of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), or during the time of the Umawis (Umayyad dynasty). It emerged some time after that, and historians differ as to when this symbol was first adopted and who was the first to adopt it. Some say it was the Persians, others say it was the Greeks, and that this symbol was somehow passed to the Muslims.

(See Al-Taraateeb al-Idaariyah by al-Kittaani, 1/320). It was said that the reason why the Muslims adopted the crescent was that when they conquered some western countries, the churches there had crosses on top of them, the Muslims replaced the crosses with these crescents, and the practice spread in this way. Whatever the case, symbols and banners must be in accordance with the teachings of Islam, and as there is no evidence that this symbol is prescribed by Islam, it is better not to use it. Neither the crescent nor the star are symbols of the Muslims, even though some Muslims may use them as symbols.
As regards what Muslims think about the moon and the stars, they believe that they are part of the creation of Allaah, and as such can neither benefit nor harm people, and they do not have any influence over events on earth. Allaah has created them for the benefit of mankind, an example of which is seen in the aayah or verse of the Quraan (interpretation of the meaning):

They ask you (O Muhammad) about the new moons. Say: These are signs to mark fixed periods of time for mankind and for the pilgrimage [al-Baqarah 2:189]


[The commentator] Ibn Katheer said, explaining the phrase Say: these are signs to mark fixed periods of time: From them (the new moons) they may know the times for repaying loans, the iddah (waiting period) of their women [after being divorced or widowed] and the timing of their Hajj (pilgrimage) Allaah has made them signs to mark the times when Muslims should start to fast and break their fast [the beginning and end of Ramadaan], to count the iddah of their women and to know the times for repaying loans.

(Tafseer Ibn Katheer).
[Another commentator] Al-Qurtubi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in his commentary on this aayah [verse]: This explains the wisdom behind the waxing and waning of the moon, which is to avoid any confusion in appointed dates, dealings, oaths, Hajj, iddah, fasting, breaking fasts, length of pregnancy, rentals and other matters that concern mankind. Similar to this aayah are others (interpretation of the meanings):


And We have appointed the night and the day as two aayaat (signs). Then, We have made dark the sign of the night while We have made the sign of day illuminating, that you may seek bounty from your Lord, and that you may know the number of the years and the reckoning [al-Isra 17:12]


It is He Who made the sun a shining thing and the moon as a light and measured out its (their) stages, that you might know the number of years and the reckoning [Yoonus 10:5]


Counting the new moons is easier than counting days.

(See Tafseer al-Qurtubi).
With regard to the stars, the scholars of Islam say that Allaah created these stars for three reasons: to adorn the heavens, to drive away the devils (shayaateen) and as signs for navigation.

(Saheeh al-Bukhaari, Kitaab Bad al-Khalq), as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
It is He Who has set the stars for you, so that you may guide your course with their help through the darkness of the land and the sea [al-Anaam 6:97]


And indeed We have adorned the nearest heaven with lamps, and We have made such lamps (as) missiles to drive away the shayaateen (devils), and have prepared for them the torment of the blazing Fire. [al-Mulk 67:5]"
https://islamqa.info/en/answers/1528/taking-the-crescent-as-a-symbol


 





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#63
Praise be to Allaah.

"There is no basis in shareeah for taking the crescent or star as a symbol of the Muslims. This was not known at the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), or at the time of the Khulafa al-Raashidoon (the first four leaders of Islam after the death of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), or during the time of the Umawis (Umayyad dynasty). It emerged some time after that, and historians differ as to when this symbol was first adopted and who was the first to adopt it. Some say it was the Persians, others say it was the Greeks, and that this symbol was somehow passed to the Muslims.
God declares the end from the beginning.

So it doesn't matter when Islam chose a crescent as a symbol.


God foreknew and foretold and you ought to take note of that.
 





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#64
Lucifer is not mentioned in the original text which was written in Hebraic in the OT and Greek in the NT.

So nobody is expecting Lucifer to arise in their hearts.


What Peter is writing is what Jesus is saying about Himself as being the morning star and giving the morning star to those who continue in His work until the end. We know from Job that a morning star is an angel. And that is what we hope to become. Peter used the poetic image or metaphor Phosphoros to describe this and in Latin this word was translated as Lucifer.
Understood, and, except for the fact that, as I understand you to now be saying, you are expecting to become an angel, agreed. The problem is essentially linguistic, and related to translation issues.
TokiEl said:
In Isaiah 14 God is speaking about someone who will also sit on the mount of the congregation. That is Mount Zion where God used to sit.

That someone says God is a self willed impostor.

Now we can argue about the name Heylel in Hebraic is/is not Hilal in Arabic... but it really doesn't change the fact that an impostor is sitting on Mount Zion.
Well you presented the "word association" as a significant part of your argument, and I am analyzing the words. Thus far, the lexicological, or word, proofs of your argument don't seem to add up. I was giving you what I consider to be the courtesy of trying to understand your argument. It doesn't matter to me if you keep seeing the Islamic doppelganger (monster) in the Rorsarch ink-blot test :cool:.
 





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#65
:) May God guide whom He wills to this blessed path. May we all be of the Submitters to the will of God (Muslims) .Ameen.

The person who enters this religion is called a Muslim (one who submits), because he has submitted (aslama) to all the rulings that have come from Allaah and from the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):


“And who turns away from the religion of Ibraaheem (Abraham) (i.e. Islamic Monotheism) except him who befools himself? Truly, We chose him in this world and verily, in the Hereafter he will be among the righteous.


When his Lord said to him, ‘Submit (i.e. be a Muslim)!’ He said, ‘I have submitted myself (as a Muslim) to the Lord of the ‘Aalameen (mankind, jinn and all that exists).’” [al-Baqarah 2:130-131]


“Yes, but whoever submits his face (himself) to Allaah (i.e. follows Allaah’s religion of Islamic Monotheism) and he is a Muhsin ( a doer of good who does good deeds solely for the sake of Allaah) then his reward is with his Lord (Allaah), on such shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve”
[al-Baqarah 2:112].
 





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#66
Understood, and, except for the fact that, as I understand you to now be saying, you are expecting to become an angel, agreed. The problem is essentially linguistic, and related to translation issues.

Well you presented the "word association" as a significant part of your argument, and I am analyzing the words. Thus far, the lexicological, or word, proofs of your argument don't seem to add up. I was giving you what I consider to be the courtesy of trying to understand your argument. It's no big deal to me if you see the Islamic doppelganger in the Rorsarch ink-blot test :cool:.
Just to open it out a bit more, I find it interesting that Satan wishes to be the light bringer, Lucifer Morningstar, figuratively shown as the eye of Horus above the unfinished pyramid. Imitation of the true capstone was likely his intention and when you see it, you get a certain insight into the mind of the Enemy:-

Imitate, invert and then deny the original.

https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/the-cornerstone-the-capstone-and-the-pyramid.4727/
 





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#67
Well you presented the "word association" as a significant part of your argument, and I am analyzing the words. Thus far, the lexicological, or word, proofs of your argument don't seem to add up. I was giving you what I consider to be the courtesy of trying to understand your argument. It's no big deal to me if you see the Islamic doppelganger in the Rorsarch ink-blot test :cool:.
The most significant part from Isaiah 14 is that an impostor will also sit on the mount of the congregation.


Now i used Google translate and copypasted the Hebrew word הֵילֵל (Strong's H1966 - heylel) and it translated into English as... He whined...

L0L and that is the image i have of our adversary... a whiner. Also translated it into Arabic and back into English again... He grumbled...

Anyway i'm sure there are layers of meanings here and God is into fun and puns.
 





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#68
Just to open it out a bit more, I find it interesting that Satan wishes to be the light bringer, Lucifer Morningstar, figuratively shown as the eye of Horus above the unfinished pyramid. Imitation of the true capstone was likely his intention and when you see it, you get a certain insight into the mind of the Enemy:-

Imitate, invert and then deny the original.

https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/the-cornerstone-the-capstone-and-the-pyramid.4727/
He is a copycat.
 





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#69
:) May God guide whom He wills to this blessed path. May we all be of the Submitters to the will of God (Muslims) .Ameen.

The person who enters this religion is called a Muslim (one who submits), because he has submitted (aslama) to all the rulings that have come from Allaah and from the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
God is Jesus Christ.

So you must submit to Him and read and do what He says in His book and pray to Him.

Now you know the Truth and the Truth will set you free.
 





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#70
Please tell me: with all things in their proper context, does it boil down to your cube is the "true" cube and all others, except, maybe, the one in the Jewish temple, are counterfeits?
It is a comparison between an actual, freestanding, multipurpose (over the years) brick cube, built by men, and a vision from John on the isle of Patmos, describing the foursquare or perfect (in spirit) city of God. I don't believe it is valid-- the two are not comparable.

Even then, the Jewish "cubists," whose writings can be found at Jews for Judaism, will tell you otherwise, and that with Islam nowhere in the picture.
Jews who dont subscribe to the New Testament? I'm shocked. -.-
 





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#71
Most scholars this late at the end of the age are in the pocket of the forces of darkness and deception. Their salary depends on that and truths are not convenient to them.
With all due respect it is literalists who bury their heads in the sand and ignore truths when it is not convenient.

What inaccuracies and errors ?

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Biblical_scientific_errors

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Biblical_contradictions

https://web.archive.org/web/20040903215521/http://www.freethought.mbdojo.com/familycensus.html

Again there are lots of gymnastics being performed by the literalists to explain these away, but the fact that exist at all casts a lot of doubt on the inerrant and infallible business.

My personal favorite though is Acts 12:4 of the KJV. Easter lmao and don’t bring up Ishtar!
 





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Dalit

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#72
With all due respect it is literalists who bury their heads in the sand and ignore truths when it is not convenient.




https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Biblical_scientific_errors

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Biblical_contradictions


Again there are lots of gymnastics being performed by the literalists to explain these away, but the fact that exist at all casts a lot of doubt on the inerrant and infallible business.

My personal favorite though is Acts 12:4 of the KJV. Easter lmao and don’t bring up Ishtar!
I think that's showing that after Easter Peter will be released because Herod and his officials most likely celebrate Easter. "Then were the days of unleavened bread" (Acts 12:3). I assume Peter would be celebrating unleavened bread and other Biblical feasts rather than Easter. But that may be what you're getting at. Just trying to bring a little more context to the Acts 12:4 scenario.
 





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#73
I think that's showing that after Easter Peter will be released because Herod and his officials most likely celebrate Easter. "Then were the days of unleavened bread" (Acts 12:3). I assume Peter would be celebrating unleavened bread and other Biblical feasts rather than Easter. But that may be what you're getting at. Just trying to bring a little more context to the Acts 12:4 scenario.
No one would have been celebrating “Easter” at that time in that region that’s the point. Other versions properly call it Passover but since the KJV is the literalists favorite I like to point it out.
 





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#74
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Biblical_scientific_errors

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Biblical_contradictions

https://web.archive.org/web/20040903215521/http://www.freethought.mbdojo.com/familycensus.html

Again there are lots of gymnastics being performed by the literalists to explain these away, but the fact that exist at all casts a lot of doubt on the inerrant and infallible business.

My personal favorite though is Acts 12:4 of the KJV. Easter lmao and don’t bring up Ishtar!
The New Testament was written in Greek and the word in question is πάσχα (Strong's G3957 - pascha) which ought to be translated into English as Passover. KJV is not holy and infallible because KJV is not God.
 





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#75
The New Testament was written in Greek and the word in question is πάσχα (Strong's G3957 - pascha) which ought to be translated into English as Passover. KJV is not holy and infallible because KJV is not God.
Ok, care to address anything else in the other three links?

The KJV is not inerrant or infallible and neither is any other version. It’s just reality.
 





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#76
Ok, care to address anything else in the other three links?

The KJV is not inerrant or infallible and neither is any other version. It’s just reality.
That's true and it's always wise to check the original text if doing a Bible study.

There is no time left nitpicking the Bible for minor translation errors.
 





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#77
With all due respect it is literalists who bury their heads in the sand and ignore truths when it is not convenient.




https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Biblical_scientific_errors

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Biblical_contradictions

https://web.archive.org/web/20040903215521/http://www.freethought.mbdojo.com/familycensus.html

Again there are lots of gymnastics being performed by the literalists to explain these away, but the fact that exist at all casts a lot of doubt on the inerrant and infallible business.

My personal favorite though is Acts 12:4 of the KJV. Easter lmao and don’t bring up Ishtar!
Translation errors doesn't make them bible errors...

And seeing that it was pleasing to the Jews, he added also to seize Peter (and they were the days of Unleavened Bread
 





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#78
Translation errors doesn't make them bible errors...

And seeing that it was pleasing to the Jews, he added also to seize Peter (and they were the days of Unleavened Bread
One of the reasons I'm learning Hebrew. If I crack it I will try Greek next (but I may require God's help as I suck at French ;-)
 





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#79
Those languages seems so outlandish, that discourages me from trying, but im aware of just how much more insight and information people who fluent in them gets, payoff is too good. How it goes btw ? Shouldn't be easy at your age.