This is what Islam is...

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#41
Neither am i fluent in Hebrew or Aramic but i recognize the similarity of the Hebrew transliteration Heylel with the Arabic transliteration Hilal which means Crescent and makes sense as that is a symbol of the impostor of Islam.
the word "there" and "their" sounds alike so they must mean the same thing. Oh yea because homophones don't exist.
The should be a limit to stupidity. If your reasoning is that two DIFFERENT words from two DIFFERENT languages might mean the same thing just because they sound alike, you need help.

The words aren't even pronounced the same, they are just spelled (kind of) the same in english, a totally different language from the last two being compared. This is just embarrassing lol
 





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#42
the word "there" and "their" sounds alike so they must mean the same thing. Oh yea because homophones don't exist.
The should be a limit to stupidity. If your reasoning is that two DIFFERENT words from two DIFFERENT languages might mean the same thing just because they sound alike, you need help.

The words aren't even pronounced the same, they are just spelled (kind of) the same in english, a totally different language from the last two being compared. This is just embarrassing lol
The core point is that God said in Isaiah 14:12-15 that an impostor will also sit on the mount of the congregation.

God used to sit on Mount Zion in the City of David... where the idol or impostor of Islam now sits.

Now we can argue about the name of this impostor... but the point is that he sits where God used to sit.
 





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#43
The core point is that God said in Isaiah 14:12-15 that an impostor will also sit on the mount of the congregation.

God used to sit on Mount Zion in the City of David... where the idol or impostor of Islam now sits.

Now we can argue about the name of this impostor... but the point is that he sits where God used to sit.
Don't pose an argument when you have no idea what you are talking about.
You pointed out the connection you saw because of the two words from two different languages that look different and are pronounced different and have different meanings and concluded that this must mean "its islam being talked about" in the verse. I'm just saying your argument is flawed and straight up embarrassing.
 





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#45
Quran:
--sura 45, verse 13:
"For you (God) subjected all that is in the heavens and on the earth, all from Him. Behold! In that are signs for people who reflect."

--sura 55, verse 5:
"The sun and moon (are subjected) to calculations"

--sura 6, verse 96:
"(God) appointed the night for rest and the sun and the moon for reckoning."

--sura 14, verse 33:
"For you (God) subjected the sun and the moon, both diligently pursuing their courses. And for you He subjected the night and the day."

-sura 6, verse 97:
"(God) is the One Who has set out for you the stars, that you may guide yourselves by them through the darkness of the land and of the sea. We have detailed the signs for people who know."

--sura 16, verse 16:
"(God sets on the earth) landmarks and by the stars (men) guide themselves."

--sura 10, verse 5:
"God is the One Who made the sun a shining glory and the moon a light and for her ordained mansions, so that you might know the number of years and the reckoning (of the time). God created this in truth. He explains the signs in detail for people who know."


 





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#46
On and off the board, that happens to me a lot, though I don't go in search of it and am not complaining. Christians will say: "Oh look, Muslims are circumambulating around a cube, and cubes are thought to be related to Saturn, and therefore Muslims are Satanic Saturn worshipers." To which I respond: "Oh really? As I read it, Muslims are only circumambulating around a cube, but, by the sounds of things, Christians are expecting to actually live in one, or something which sounds suspiciously like one, a celestial city built foursquare. Furthermore, when the Temple was still standing, Jews had a cube in their Holy of Holies, and, at the rate they are going, probably again soon will." To me, a "cubist" by any other name is still a cubist.
You would have a point, if context meant nothing.
 





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#47
I have now read it. Thank you. It is as informative as it is interesting.
Hey thanks I’m glad you read it. I think to externalize evil as the modern myth of Lucifer/Satan does distracts from the evil within, which comes from a painful collective history and the selfish survival instinct from our animal nature/origin.

Any true form of religion allows us to transcend that animal instinct. In a certain sense it is accurate that demons are portrayed as reptilian, as it is the reptilian portions of our brains that are in control of the human mind during our worse depravities.

Thanks for listening lol
 





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#48
Hey thanks I’m glad you read it. I think to externalize evil as the modern myth of Lucifer/Satan does distracts from the evil within, which comes from a painful collective history and the selfish survival instinct from our animal nature/origin.

Any true form of religion allows us to transcend that animal instinct. In a certain sense it is accurate that demons are portrayed as reptilian, as it is the reptilian portions of our brains that are in control of the human mind during our worse depravities.

Thanks for listening lol
Thank you, in turn, for listening to me. I think you have a lot of valuable things to contribute to the discussions, and that article, as well as your personal insight, are cases in point. I remember once reading, or maybe even thinking, that, in a way, it is a sign of a primitive consciousness which externalizes its gods and devils, but I was probably too immersed in the so called "depth psychologists," especially C.G. Jung, and was smoking a lot of weed at the time lol. I don't necessarily hold to my own opinion on any given subject and wouldn't defend the statement now, but I understood, quite well, and appreciate what you just wrote.
 





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#49
I don't wish to put a downer on people wishing to make the journey from lower nature to higher self, but some of the comments above have quite an uncanny resonance with the new Rosicrucian manifesto...

https://www.rosicrucian.org/texts

I think the Bible contains a far more reliable account of the human condition. Our original ancestors were far from primitive. Our flesh cannot be improved, it must be crucified.

Oprah is wrong, the apostle Paul was right ;-)
 





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#50
I don't wish to put a downer on people wishing to make the journey from lower nature to higher self, but some of the comments above have quite an uncanny resonance with the new Rosicrucian manifesto...

https://www.rosicrucian.org/texts

I think the Bible contains a far more reliable account of the human condition. Our original ancestors were far from primitive. Our flesh cannot be improved, it must be crucified.

Oprah is wrong, the apostle Paul was right ;-)
Living life and watching the behavior of others then coming to grips with my own sinfulness have shown me that the Bible’s account of Man is based on reality. The older I get, the more often I read it, the more truth it reveals.
 





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#51
Don't pose an argument when you have no idea what you are talking about.
You pointed out the connection you saw because of the two words from two different languages that look different and are pronounced different and have different meanings and concluded that this must mean "its islam being talked about" in the verse. I'm just saying your argument is flawed and straight up embarrassing.
God is speaking to a being who will also sit on the mount of the congregation. That mount is Zion where the Glory of God used to sit in the Holy of Holies in the Temple.

Isaiah 14 13"For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:"

As for the Hebraic word Heylel in the sense of brightness... it is obviously connected to the Arabic word Hilal which means Crescent.
 





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#52
Actually God is saying what satan thought in his heart , not what will happen.Huge difference. Also it's not prophecy it's ancient history.
God knows the heart of this impostor and said it so we would know who He is talking about.

And that of course went over your and Red's heads.
 





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#53
I don't wish to put a downer on people wishing to make the journey from lower nature to higher self, but some of the comments above have quite an uncanny resonance with the new Rosicrucian manifesto...

https://www.rosicrucian.org/texts

I think the Bible contains a far more reliable account of the human condition. Our original ancestors were far from primitive. Our flesh cannot be improved, it must be crucified.

Oprah is wrong, the apostle Paul was right ;-)
Except Red, they were primitive and the Bible is not an accurate account of human history. For one human life started in South Africa and not Mesopotamia as people believe the Bible states.

It is however a good metaphor of our evolution from animal to self awareness ( the knowledge of good and evil )

I’m not sure what Oprah or the Rosicrucians have to do with it.
 





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#55
Except Red, they were primitive and the Bible is not an accurate account of human history. For one human life started in South Africa and not Mesopotamia as people believe the Bible states.
The Bible is the authoritative and accurate account of God and mankind.
 





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#57
No it’s not it’s a book written over thousands of years by thousands of different people with errors and subject to thousands of different interpretation.
The first five books in the Bible were written by Moses who spoke with God on Mount Horeb in about 1450 BC.

Enoch who wrote before the Flood confirms the Bible account regarding God angels and man.
 





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#58
Lucifer is a Latin word that is not found in the original text which was written mostly in Hebraic and some Aramaic in the OT and Greek in the NT.

In 2 Peter 1:19 the Greek word is φωσφόρος (Strong's G5459 - phōsphoros) and read in context is used as a metaphor for Jesus Christ.
The same Greek word, in Latin, is Lucifer, or lucifer. The still outstanding question is why it is that you, even if only metaphorically, are expecting Lucifer to arise in your heart? How is Jesus thought to be metaphorically related to Lucifer?


"et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem cui bene facitis adtendentes quasi lucernae lucenti in caliginoso loco donec dies inlucescat et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestris"
(2 Peter 1:19, Vulgate)
TokiEl said:
In Isaiah 14:12 the Hebrew word is הֵילֵל (Strong's H1966 - heylel) and that looks like an actual name and read in context of a self willed being who will also sit upon the mount of the congregation in the sides of the north ... Neither am i fluent in Hebrew or Aramic but i recognize the similarity of the Hebrew transliteration Heylel with the Arabic transliteration Hilal which means Crescent and makes sense as that is a symbol of the impostor of Islam.
Thank you for providing a link. When I, using your Strong's Concordance reference, copy the Hebrew word, הֵילֵל, into Microsoft's Hebrew to Arabic translator, I get this Arabic word:


هليل
The Wiki link you provided translates this Arabic word:
هلال
Are you able to determine if those are the same words? At any rate, maybe somebody, a fellow participant, who is fluent in Arabic, could tell us? If so, we'll proceed from there.
 





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#59
The first five books in the Bible were written by Moses who spoke with God on Mount Horeb in about 1450 BC.

Enoch who wrote before the Flood confirms the Bible account regarding God angels and man.
No, they weren’t written by Moses and there is a 500 year gap between Chapters 1 & 2.

Look if you honestly research how the Bible came to be you will see it is not constructed as fundamentalism leads you to believe.

I could cite numerous scholars to support my claims but there’s always a few fundie scholars out there that could give you a counter-claim.


Anyway I’m not bashing the Bible or anyone’s belief in it, but for me it’s rewarding and enlightening to take it allegorically and I don’t have to perform mental gymnastics to explain away all the historical and scientific inaccuracies and continuation errors.
 





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#60
The same Greek word, in Latin, is Lucifer, or lucifer. The still outstanding question is why it is that you, even if only metaphorically, are expecting Lucifer to arise in your heart? How is Jesus thought to be metaphorically related to Lucifer?

"et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem cui bene facitis adtendentes quasi lucernae lucenti in caliginoso loco donec dies inlucescat et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestris"

Lucifer is not mentioned in the original text which was written in Hebraic in the OT and Greek in the NT.

So nobody is expecting Lucifer to arise in their hearts.


What Peter is writing is what Jesus is saying about Himself as being the morning star and giving the morning star to those who continue in His work until the end. We know from Job that a morning star is an angel. And that is what we hope to become. Peter used the poetic image or metaphor Phosphoros to describe this and in Latin this word was translated as Lucifer.




Thank you for providing a link. When I, using your Strong's Concordance reference, copy the Hebrew word, הֵילֵל, into Microsoft's Hebrew to Arabic translator, I get this Arabic word:
هليل
The Wiki link you provided translates this Arabic word:
هلال
Are you able to determine if those are the same words? At any rate, maybe somebody, a fellow participant, who is fluent in Arabic, could tell us? If so, we'll proceed from there.
In Isaiah 14 God is speaking about someone who will also sit on the mount of the congregation. That is Mount Zion where God used to sit.

That someone says God is a self willed impostor.

Now we can argue about the name Heylel in Hebraic is/is not Hilal in Arabic... but it really doesn't change the fact that an impostor is sitting on Mount Zion.