Thinking about leaving Christianity

[Lyfe]

No, he doesn't. Believe it or not I know of many people who spent years begging for answers and got none. If he's real, he picks and chooses who he reveals himself to.

How do you know God didnt answer them?

For God speaks in one way, and in two, though man does not perceive it. Job 33:14

 

[Alanantic]

How do you know God didnt answer them?

For God speaks in one way, and in two, though man does not perceive it. Job 33:14

Because the answer was total silence?

 

[Lyfe]

Because the answer was total silence?

Gods answers are all found in Christ. You reject this truth though and don't consider it to be a legitimate answer. There is a Bible everywhere. Jesus came as the word of God made flesh and the word of God can be found basically everywhere nowadays. Jesus is the word and the word is everywhere. God says "Here I Am" yet people who have hardened and closed off their heart will continue to be blind. People are not interested in Gods answers.

 

[Alanantic]

Gods answers are all found in Christ. You reject this truth though and don't consider it to be a legitimate answer. There is a Bible everywhere. Jesus came as the word of God made flesh and the word of God can be found basically everywhere nowadays. Jesus is the word and the word is everywhere. God says "Here I Am" yet people who have hardened and closed off their heart will continue to be blind. People are not interested in Gods answers.

The Bhagavad Gita is everywhere. Krishna is the word made flesh a thousand years before Jesus. You reject Krishna, so you're going to Hindu HELL! Just kidding. Hinduism embraces all religions.

"Whenever there is a decay of righteousness, O Bharata, and a rise of unrighteousness, then I manifest Myself. For the protection of the good, for the destruction of the wicked and for the establishment of righteousness, I am born in every age." -- Krishna

 

[Vmort]

Christianity has been invented by Hivites and they killed all no Christians in Rome. They didn't asked if Romans wanted Chirisitanity to be at Roman's lands. Christians destroyed all who was against them, why do we need their lie?

 

[Alanantic]

Christianity has been invented by Hivites and they killed all no Christians in Rome. They didn't asked if Romans wanted Chirisitanity to be at Roman's lands. Christians destroyed all who was against them, why do we need their lie?

Religious nutjobs are the driving force behind human civilization!...unfortunately...

 

[Lyfe]

Where is your evidence that the bible is the word of God? Can you prove it? Does a loving God say you can own slaves and beat them? That women have to marry their rapists? That women have be silent and "submit" to men? Even the story of blaming everything on Eve sounds like just another agenda to blame everything on women and keep them oppressed.

Men are also called to submit to and obey Christ. Does that suggest that men are victims of inequality and unfairness, because they are subject to the authority of someone else?

 

[Lyfe]

No. Men may be called to submit and obey to Christ which is fine. You didn't read my comment properly and your reasoning is flawed.

It would be fair if women too, were told to submit to Christ. HOWEVER, they are told to submit to MEN. Get the difference?

Women are called to submit to Christ.

 

[Maldarker]

And the selfish self wins again

 

[Lyfe]

Yes, that fine. I was talking about the part that says women have to be silent and submit to and obey MEN. Submitting to Christ is different. The issue here is being told to submit to and obey men.

The men had to all be in agreement and that agreement had to be with the teachings passed down through the apostles. If any of the men would contradict they would not be allowed to church. Its not like men dictated much of anything. Christ did. If a man did not treat his wife according to the doctrine passed down he was subject to proper church discipline.

Everyone was under submission to a higher authority. Men were no exception as they were subject to the leadership of church which is subject to Christ. Even Christ was submitted to The Father.

 

[A Freeman]

I am interested to hear your thoughts on this.

If under the new covenant we are supposed to keep the diatary laws, what about Peter's vision in Acts 10?

Thank-you for asking. The first question everyone should be asking is this: how could Peter's vision possibly change what Christ said? If Acts 10 is read exactly as it is written, it has absolutely nothing to do with changing the perfect diet found in The Law.

The meaning of Peter's vision (which Peter himself struggled with – see verse 17 – until he was shown) was that he should not avoid a man, sent to him from another nation which did not live by God's Laws. This is confirmed by Peter again in Acts 11. The passage has absolutely nothing to do with pork except to those whose god is their belly and who would rather eat pork (and shrimp, lobster, catfish, crabs, oysters, clams, crawfish, etc. -- anything from the ocean that isn't a fish with fins and scales) to their detriment, than obey God.

The three primary reasons God prohibited certain creatures from human consumption is because:

1) those creatures were designed to be part of the planetary waste management system (cleaning up and reprocessing messes);
2) the consumption of those creatures causes long-term health problems in humans (e.g. cancer, heart disease, blocked arteries, etc.); and
3) the consumption of those creatures causes damage to the planetary waste management system, which affects all other life on Earth

When one thinks of the scale at which the very creatures that are supposed to be cleaning up the messes are being harvested by humans, while at the very same time we are steadily increasing the vast amounts of totally unnecessary waste we're dumping into landfills and into the oceans, the insanity of what we're doing comes into full view. So, as always, God gave us a simple law to follow, for our own benefit and for the benefit of the rest of His creatures and the planet itself, and we have selfishly and stupidly ignored Him, and think ourselves clever in doing so.

If you're interested, the passage itself has been shared below in the spoiler section, with an emphasis on the parts people usually read over, to come to the erroneous conclusion that Peter's vision allegedly gave us all a green light to break The Law and eat as much pig sausage and crawfish etouffee as we want.

Spoiler

Peter's Vision/Dream

Acts 10:9-28
10:9 On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour:
10:10 And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, HE FELL INTO A TRANCE,
10:11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
10:12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
10:13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
10:15 And the voice [spoke] unto him again the second time, WHAT GOD HATH CLEANSED, [THAT] CALL NOT THOU COMMON.
10:16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.
10:17 Now while PETER DOUBTED IN HIMSELF WHAT THIS VISION WHICH HE HAD SEEN SHOULD MEAN, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate,
10:18 And called, and asked whether Simon, which was surnamed Peter [Cephas], were lodged there.
10:19 WHILE PETER THOUGHT ON THE VISION, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee.
10:20 Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them.
10:21 Then Peter went down to the men which were sent unto him from Cornelius; and said, Behold, I am he whom ye seek: what [is] the cause wherefore ye are come?
10:22 And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words from thee.
10:23 Then called he them in, and lodged [them]. And on the morrow Peter went away with them, and certain brethren from Joppa accompanied him.
10:24 And the morrow after they entered into Caesarea. And Cornelius waited for them, and had called together his kinsmen and near friends.
10:25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped [him].
10:26 But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.
10:27 And as he talked with him, he went in, and found many that were come together.
10:28 And he said unto them, YE KNOW THAT IT IS AN UNLAWFUL THING FOR A MAN THAT IS A JEW TO KEEP COMPANY, OR COME UNTO ONE OF ANOTHER NATION; BUT GOD HATH SHOWED ME THAT I SHOULD NOT CALL ANY MAN COMMON OR UNCLEAN.

And what about the decision of the council of Jerusalem in Acts 15? Wouldnt this show the only parts of the Law applying to gentiles (the uncircumcised) would be abstaining from idolatry, fornication, things strangled, and blood?

Again, how would what is commonly referred to as the "council of Jerusalem" in Acts 15 allegedly supersede Christ's Commands?

The original discrepancy was about circumcision.

Acts 15:1-2
15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, [and said], Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
15:2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the Apostles and elders about this question.

Circumcision is of no importance; it's faith and love that are important (Gal. 5:6). And both faith and love depend upon keeping The Law.

What the Apostles and elders were hoping to avoid was converting the Gentiles to Talmudic Judaism, with all of its made-up rules, etc. The only thing that was done away with at the cross was the ordinances that involved substitute animal sacrifice (Eph. 2:14-15, Col. 2:13-14) and, strictly speaking, even that wasn't done away with; it was only replaced with "self"-sacrifice (which animal sacrifice had foreshadowed, in the same way the Levitical priesthood wasn't completely eliminated, but reduced from many to One: Christ).

There is absolutely no way that Christ would want or teach others to sin/break God's Law, which harms everyone and everything, and keeps us in bondage to sin/lawlessness. That is why Christ said The Law will never go away, and that anyone who teaches others to break any of the Commandments will be considered to be the lowest of the low in God's Eyes (Matt. 5:17-19).

The new testament most definitely comdemns this as well. While people love to quote Leviticus on this topic, a reading of Romans 1, and other verses, clearly show this is unacceptable to God.

Agreed. The Law will NEVER go away and anyone who still isn't keeping The Law on the Last Day will NOT survive, according to Christ and the rest of Scripture.

So, in response to the OP, everyone should be leaving "Christianity" and learning to follow Christ's TRUE Teachings and His Example, as found in The Law and the Gospel accounts.

 

[A Freeman]

Well it is on my behalf but I'm fully aware that some people do actually believe it, but hey! that's the bible for you I suppose, got people thinking more about their next life than this one.

Maybe you could answer me a question?

If God wanted everybody to read his book, understand it and follow it's message then why didn't he make the book really REALLY easy to understand?

Have you actually read the Bible? If so, what's so difficult to understand?

The Law (found in the first five books of the Bible, namely Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy) can basically be reduced to one simple principle: DO NOT STEAL FROM OTHERS.

What's so difficult about that?

When we commit adultery, we steal another's wife. When we commit murder, we steal someone else's life. When we injure another or harm their property, we steal their livelihood and health from them. When we destroy our natural environment, we are stealing from future generations. And when we literally steal another's property we are obviously stealing what doesn't belong to us.

Surely the interactions you see here on a daily basis where one religious person is trying to school another religious person on the REAL meaning of the Bible must teach you something?

All of the arguing that you see going on is because of organized religion, which has absolutely NOTHING to do with God, other than to use and abuse His Name to promote their own selfish reasons for wanting to continue stealing from others.

I've got a bit of an issue with this "loving God" thing.

What type of loving God prohibits a person from thinking a certain way? Why should a person who doesn't believe in God be sentenced to a life of eternity amongst gnashing teeth an fires pits but a person who does believe in God and reads his Bible gets a ticket to heaven?

What kind of human+Being actually believes that they are not responsible for their own actions?

When it's correctly understood that we've all been given 6000 years and many human lifetimes, to learn to be good and thus stop our criminal behaviour, why should God allow any unrepentant criminal to survive? Do you expect God to release a bunch of hardened criminals back into the universe, where they can continue to prey on those who actually love and keep The Law that God gave us to protect us from all of this evil?

If you've learned nothing else from your experiences in this world, can you not see that the rich and powerful will ALWAYS oppress the poor and weakened masses? And that the sole mechanism that has unbalanced our society and allowed this injustice and oppression is the unlawful fabrication of our own rules (legislation, policies, "codes", etc.) that invariably make the rich richer and the poor even poorer?

The Law that God gave us contains the perfect economic system, which prohibits usury (which is what creates debt slavery) and has built in debt relief so that no one can ever become filthy rich at the expense of everyone else, nor can anyone ever fall into abject poverty.

The Fire that has been reserved for the Last Day is necessary to eliminate the criminals who have demonstrated beyond any doubt that cannot be rehabilitated, in fairness to everyone else in the Universe that obeys the basic rules found in The Law.

So the child molester who goes to church goes to heaven and the atheist nurse who cared for people all her life goes to hell?.....c'mon.

Understanding that GOD IS GOOD, TRUTH, JUSTICE, FREEDOM, PROSPERITY, SAFETY, SECURITY AND LOVE, i.e. all of the things any rationally-minded individual would hold dear, how could anyone believe that a child molester would get a free-pass to heaven for attending one of satan's churches? God sanctioned the building of ONE Temple under the reign of Solomon. ALL of the other synagogues, churches, mosques, temples, etc. have been built by Satan, as places of business for his priests, pastors, rabbis and imams, etc.

And if someone believes that good will always prevail over evil, then they aren't really an atheist, are they?

It's amazing that the Bible can be FILLED with condemnations of church and state and their priests and politicians, and people STILL worship these institutions and their leaders who, as it says repeatedly throughout the Bible, are leading people to their destruction.

Anyone who is still voting for politicians or attending one of Satan's churches on the Last Day will join Satan in The Fire.

When you look at the daily exchanges here on this forum where one religious person is trying to educate another religious person on the REAL meaning of the bible it appears to me that modern day religions have one objective....to divide people.

Absolutely agreed. Look at every single institution on Earth and they all have the same satanic trademark: divide and conquer.

Political parties, religious denominations, differing schools of medicine, every legal battle, every stupid sporting event, etc. All designed to keep people from UNITING under the only standard that can provide true freedom, justice, peace, prosperity, safety and security for ALL: God's Law.

I'm probably not the best person to be asking questions about God to be honest. He only exists in people's imaginations as far as I'm concerned.

The truth, liberty, justice and good are all figments of everyone's imagination too? How do you (or does anyone) decide what is right and wrong in their day-to-day lives?

Sorry I couldn't engage you in a more productive debate on the matter.

Hopefully you won't mind someone else engaging you in what is hopefully a productive manner in this discussion involving real world problems that can only be solved by returning to The Law given to us by our Creator.

 

[A Freeman]

Why worship anything? I don't understand that at all. I don't worship anything. I have no idols. Okay, Kirk & Picard, but that's it. Oh, and Bugs Bunny.

Are you not worshiping your "self" then (by doing whatever it wants)?

 

[Alanantic]

Are you not worshiping your "self" then (by doing whatever it wants)?

I'm not a narcissist if that's what you mean. I have a conscience, and I use it. I feel I'm a part of the web of life, not distinct from it.

 

[A Freeman]

I'm not a narcissist if that's what you mean. I have a conscience, and I use it. I feel I'm a part of the web of life, not distinct from it.

Whenever someone feels that they are in a position to judge right from wrong by their own imperfect standard, instead of our Creator's perfect standard, they are worshiping their own ego, aka the "self", whether they realize it or not.

We can never be at one with the rest of the universe whilst doing that, a fact stated throughout the Bible, and reiterated in the Koran, Gita and the Diamond Sutra. Only by overcoming the "self" can we achieve true atonement (at one ment) with our Creator and the rest of His Creation.

 

[Alanantic]

Whenever someone feels that they are in a position to judge right from wrong by their own imperfect standard, instead of our Creator's perfect standard, they are worshiping their own ego, aka the "self", whether they realize it or not.

We can never be at one with the rest of the universe whilst doing that, a fact stated throughout the Bible, and reiterated in the Koran, Gita and the Diamond Sutra. Only by overcoming the "self" can we achieve true atonement (at one ment) with our Creator and the rest of His Creation.

I don't believe any of that, sorry.

 

[A Freeman]

I don't believe any of that, sorry.

Who exactly doesn't believe any of that? You ( the spirit-Being/Soul)? Or your "self" pretending to be you?

Bible:
Mark 8:34 And when he had called the people [unto him] with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny his "Self", and take up his cross, and follow me.

Revelation 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the communities; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the Tree of Life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Koran/Quran:
Sura 6:162. Say: "Truly, my prayer and my (daily) service of "Self" sacrifice (Luke 9:23, 14:26-27), my life (of selflessness) and my death (to "Self"), are (all) for "I AM", the Cherisher of the Worlds:

Sura 8:36. The Unbelievers spend their wealth to hinder (man) from The Way of "I AM" (Deut. 9:16), and so will they continue to spend; but in the end they will have (only) regrets and sighs; at length they will be overcome: and the Unbelievers will be gathered together to Hell-Fire;-

The Bhagavad Gita:
5:3 One who neither hates nor desires the fruits of his activities is known to be always renounced. Such a person, liberated from all dualities (James 1:8), easily overcomes material bondage (Matt. 6:24) and is completely liberated, O mighty-armed Arjuna.

12:13 One who is not envious (Exod. 20: 17) but who is a kind friend to all living entities, who does not think himself a proprietor, who is free from false ego (Luke 9:23) and equal both in happiness and distress,
12:14 who is always satisfied and engaged in devotional service with determination (1 Cor. 9:24-27) and whose mind and intelligence are in agreement with Me—he is very dear to Me (Matt. 12:49-50).

The Diamond Sutra:
Excerpt from: Chapter 3. The Awareness of All Living Beings
"Why Subhuti? Because if a disciple still clings to the arbitrary illusions of form or phenomena such as an ego, a personality, a self, a separate person, or a universal self existing eternally, then that person is not an authentic disciple (Matt. 10:37-38)."

Excerpt from: Chapter 6. Awaken Faith
"Subhuti, any person who awakens faith upon hearing the words or phrases of this Sutra will accumulate countless blessings and merit (Deut. 28:1-14).

"How do I know this? Because this person must have discarded all arbitrary notions of the existence of a personal self (Luke 9:23, Sura 6:162), of other people, or of a universal self. Otherwise their minds would still grasp after such relative conceptions. Furthermore, these people must have already discarded all arbitrary notions of the non-existence of a personal self, other people, or a universal self. Otherwise, their minds would still be grasping at such notions. Therefore anyone who seeks total Enlightenment should discard not only all conceptions of their own selfhood, of other selves, or of a universal self, but they should also discard all notions of the non-existence of such concepts.

 

[Alanantic]

I've come to a different way of looking at things than you. All scripture has elements of Truth. I wouldn't collect quotes from them if they didn't. Our personal sense of self, our mortal character is an illusion. I understand that. This conversation along with all other conversations, are acts of pretention. Deep down we're all One.

 

[Awoken2]

Have you actually read the Bible?

Yes. During my most formative years it was shovelled into me every Sunday at Church.

If so, what's so difficult to understand?

The point of it. It had no impact on me back then, when it should have.

The Law (found in the first five books of the Bible, namely Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy) can basically be reduced to one simple principle: DO NOT STEAL FROM OTHERS.

What's so difficult about that?

I'm well aware of what natural law is. I didn't need to read five bibles to learn this. Cause no harm, cause no loss, do not deceive. It's a very easy thing to understand.

All of the arguing that you see going on is because of organized religion, which has absolutely NOTHING to do with God

The people involved in those religions would be strongly disagreeing with this I'm sure.

What kind of human+Being actually believes that they are not responsible for their own actions?

Insane ones?

When it's correctly understood that we've all been given 6000 years and many human lifetimes, to learn to be good and thus stop our criminal behaviour, why should God allow any unrepentant criminal to survive? Do you expect God to release a bunch of hardened criminals back into the universe, where they can continue to prey on those who actually love and keep The Law that God gave us to protect us from all of this evil?

I really have no interest whatsoever in buying into this type of stuff. This is where it just starts sounding like a fairytale.

Hopefully you won't mind someone else engaging you in what is hopefully a productive manner in this discussion involving real world problems that can only be solved by returning to The Law given to us by our Creator.

I don't mind, I just find the topic incredibly boring. That's just me being honest.

 

[ToxicFemininitySucks]

Feminist propaganda? Lol, feminism was born out of the injustices women face in a patriarchal society that largely stems from sexist religion.

No, it was born out out the satanic globalist elites using some women's discontent and rebellion to create this "movement" that subverts the natural order of things.

In case you havent noticed, it doesnt matter how much injustice there is, if the globalist elites dont want to turn it into a movement or social cause it is snuffed out.

Also, men face injustices too, but sure, lets keep the mainstream leftist narrative going.