There Should Be Peace Between Muslims and Christians

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#21
So you're aware of the creepy aspect too. Crazy how that works, regardless of the era.
In the Book of Revelation 16:13,14 under the sixth plague which is still future shortly before the return of Christ, we are presented with the following words from inspiration;

"And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty."

Notice that the miracles which will be done during the time will be done by devils, that is demons, yes, fallen angels to the "kings of the earth and of the whole world" to prepare them "to the battle of that great day of God Almighty."

Which shows that Satan and his angels have power also to perform miracles. But before that time comes, Satan will have to do a preliminary work of this miracles. It is why Christ has foretold:

"For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before."- Matthew 24:24,25.

Prophecy coming true? Sorry but I'm not very well versed concerning the Bible of Jesus (Peace, Blessings, and Prayers be upon him).

And from this link, I gathered

Muhammad also stated that the last of these Dajjals would be the False Messiah, al-Masih ad-Dajjal (Antichrist):

Samra ibn Jundab reported once Muhammad (while delivering a ceremonial speech at an occasion of a solar eclipse) said;

"Verily by Allah, the Last Hour will not come until 30 dajjals will appear and the final one will be the One-eyed False Messiah."​

— Related by Imam Ahmed and Imam Tabarani as a sound hâdith.​

I personally believe that we are really seeing some of those 30 Anti-Christs in the following YouTube video or at least their minions, though The-All-Protecting Surely Knows Best.

 





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#22
We've had a few Christians show up but I'm the only person that's cited the Bible.
Satan cites the Bible. What's your point?

Then the devil led Him to Jerusalem and set Him on the pinnacle of the temple.

“If You are the Son of God,” he said, “throw Yourself down from here. For it is written:
‘He will command His angels concerning You to guard You carefully; and they will lift You up in their hands, so that You will not strike Your foot against a stone.’ ”​

But Jesus declared, “It also says, ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’”

LUKE 4:9-12
 





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#23
In the Book of Revelation 16:13,14 under the sixth plague which is still future shortly before the return of Christ, we are presented with the following words from inspiration;

"And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty."

Notice that the miracles which will be done during the time will be done by devils, that is demons, yes, fallen angels to the "kings of the earth and of the whole world" to prepare them "to the battle of that great day of God Almighty."

Which shows that Satan and his angels have power also to perform miracles. But before that time comes, Satan will have to do a preliminary work of this miracles. It is why Christ has foretold:

"For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before."- Matthew 24:24,25.

Prophecy coming true? Sorry but I'm not very well versed concerning the Bible of Jesus (Peace, Blessings, and Prayers be upon him).

And from this link, I gathered

Muhammad also stated that the last of these Dajjals would be the False Messiah, al-Masih ad-Dajjal (Antichrist):

Samra ibn Jundab reported once Muhammad (while delivering a ceremonial speech at an occasion of a solar eclipse) said;

"Verily by Allah, the Last Hour will not come until 30 dajjals will appear and the final one will be the One-eyed False Messiah."​


— Related by Imam Ahmed and Imam Tabarani as a sound hâdith.​

I personally believe that we are really seeing some of those 30 Anti-Christs in the following YouTube video or at least their minions, though The-All-Protecting Surely Knows Best.

Oh, I've seen that...:oops: The worst was when Chris Angel quite literally climbed the wall on his hands and knees. That was a little too real.
 





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#24
The "Kill the apostate" commandment doesn't apply during the age we are now into.
I wish that was true. I doubt any of the Muslims on this forum would obey that commandment.

However a quick Google search will provide many online newspaper stories of ex-Muslim murders, especially by enraged relatives who believe they must obey Islam in its entirety.
 





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#26
Unfortunately, instead of doing that, it seems the overwhelming majority of people on both sides would much rather prefer being assholes instead. So because of that, it's made easy for Satan to keep on winning.
 





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#28
Matthew 5:9 Blessed [are] the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

Mohammed said, "Satan touches every son of Adam the day his mother beareth him (Revelation 12:4), save only Mary and her son (Jesus)."
http://jahtruth.net/dates.htm
Revelation 22:18 [Jesus said] For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.


Did Muhammad add to God's Word?

Are YOU adding to God's Word?
 





Etagloc

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#29
Revelation 22:18 [Jesus said] For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.


Did Muhammad add to God's Word?

Are YOU adding to God's Word?
"This book", I assume, was a reference to the Book of Revelation. Every educated Christian should know the Bible is not actually a book but a compilation of books.
 





Etagloc

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#30
The "Kill the apostate" commandment doesn't apply during the age we are now into.
I think the most authentic opinion is that it does apply.

However, even according to this view- the punishment has to be carried out by the state.

Also, the apostate is given three days to think about it. This is according not only to Sheikh Fawzan (I have read where he says this) but also Imam Shafi if I'm not mistaken.

I mean honestly....... if by some circumstance a person actually found themselves in a situation...... firstly it's haraam to spy on people (except maybe in certain cases) and secondly Muslims aren't mind-readers..... if a person actually commits apostasy, how would the state even find out unless the person ran around blurting it out?

Thirdly, all the person has to do is within three days say "umm... yeah.... I believe in Islam"..... and then not run around disrupting the community

my personal view, however, is the apostate should maybe be given a stern talking to and a long lecture.... if they persist- more drastic measures may be required- an entire series of long lectures..... these long lectures may also involve dramatic hand gestures and finger waving
 





Etagloc

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#31
Satan cites the Bible. What's your point?

Then the devil led Him to Jerusalem and set Him on the pinnacle of the temple.

“If You are the Son of God,” he said, “throw Yourself down from here. For it is written:

‘He will command His angels concerning You to guard You carefully; and they will lift You up in their hands, so that You will not strike Your foot against a stone.’ ”​

But Jesus declared, “It also says, ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’”

LUKE 4:9-12
The point is that Christians should base their behavior and thinking off the Bible if they are to follow the Bible.
 





Etagloc

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#32
I wish that was true. I doubt any of the Muslims on this forum would obey that commandment.

However a quick Google search will provide many online newspaper stories of ex-Muslim murders, especially by enraged relatives who believe they must obey Islam in its entirety.
You can point to wrong-doing by members of any religion. However, the Bible says to love your enemies.
 





Etagloc

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#33
While you continue to insult Christianity with impunity... noted.
It is not insulting Christianity for me to point that the West is "post-Christian". Christians themselves.... the real ones anyway.... talk about the same thing.
 





Etagloc

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#34
You started the thread and as usual the challenge was not answered, a deflection was all that was offered.

I could introduce irreconcilable theological positions like all other "Islam versus Christianity" threads but instead I wanted to see a Muslim defend their clear "kill the apostate" commandment for once.

Several general passages instead, if Christians actually believe the bible they will see what is being communicated.

Matthew 7:15 [Jesus said] Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.


Matthew 10:16 [Jesus said] Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.
18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.


Look at Muhammad's life. Look at Jesus' life. Are they compatible?
I'm not saying for Christians to be yoked with Muslims. Just to be civil.
 





Etagloc

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#35
Islam is theocracy more or less, and covers everything in believers life. While christianity is nothing of the sort although US is gravitating towards it. Not a good tendency especially in politics... Point is to accept muslims you need to accept a lot , to accept christian you need to know he sometimes pray hidden in a corner. And never to think about it again. Anyways internet and this forum is ridiculous with all the hostility and fighting by close minded members from both religions. Recently met few muslims in real life and they were awesome people. Didn't had a single argument with them in few moths and they helped me a lot. It's not the priest who helped robbed man in Luke 25 either...
The OT is theocracy.... modern world is like atheocracy.
 





DavidSon

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#36
It seems like a typo, and that you presumably meant this:
"They should be respectful and for them to be disrespectful towards each other is contrary to both religions."

Agreed (if so and my presumption is correct). I would like to add to this a suggestion though if I may - that instead of people just taking the "quick and easy path" (this is what lazy people like to do - and they need to stop being so lazy) of organized religion and just quickly having a glance at all the same old, worn out religious institutionalized interpretations, that have existed for so long in both religious traditions, as they have come to be organized and known (collectively into mainstream "Christianity" and "Islam", etc) and that have never actually led to anyone being able to agree, but to just keep on having the same old never ending arguments about the interpretations that don't seem to match up.

That instead of that, instead of continuing to just blindly trust in these interpretations of men (be they so-called scholars, imams, priests, rabbis, etc.) that it works better, way better (or rather, it just actually works, while the other tried, tested and failed method, doesn't work and it never will work to bring peace) to really start studying what the scriptures (God's Word) itself has to say to each of us, and then asking and trusting Him for the needed Guidance (DIRECT Guidance, from God, not men) to tell us what it actually really means. Because, as you pointed out above, both tell us to be respectful towards one another.

That has to mean that the Scriptures are right and if there seems to be a disagreement, then it is because of men, who are reading and interpreting it wrong (and/or as well as due to attempted human interference). It says no one can change God's Word. No-one. His Word is Alive. Studying His Word (Bible and Qur'an) links us up with Him and only He has the Ability to correctly and exactly explain to each one of us.

We should be promoting respect between one another as this is what Scriptures teach. We are all in the same boat, realize it or not, but it is true. Soon, this will be obvious. What the Chinese government is doing now should be all we need to see this if we haven't seen it yet.

Why are we different, and not all the same? I love what this beautiful Ayat/verse tells us about the reasons:

49:13. O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of "I AM" (Allah) is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And "I AM" (Allah) has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things).

So should there be peace, between Muslims and Christians? Yes, most definitely, there should be. We need it, and to come together as brothers and as sisters, as believers, we all need to strive for it. Even if just side by side, as long as we have to. That is possible just by practicing goodwill and mutual respect. We need to strive for understanding and for mutual respect. Our scriptures tell us all to do it. And sooner or later (hopefully sooner) we need to realize that we are all going to be in the same boat together, and in so many ways, we already are.

Just looking at what the Chinese government is doing, should help wake us up and help us to see it.
https://www.businessinsider.com/wha...reeducation-camps-china-2018-5?r=US&IR=T&IR=T
https://www.christianitytoday.com/n...sus-communist-president-xi-jinping-yugan.html
Well said. Jesus and Mohammad didn't live to be worshiped by men and women. They always gave God the praise. Multiple instances in the scripture where Jesus says, "Don't tell others what I have done, but exalt your God." Then what's the first thing people did? Run out and talk what Jesus had done for them.

I agree, we have to read these books for our self. Then re-read, haha. Challenge all the doctrines of man and their interpretations. I seriously don't need the ruminations of some pope aristophenes to be with HIM.

The message of the enlightened Prophets and Teachers is to awaken. Live in the light, live in the divinity of our higher selves. The Kingdom of God is within (and without). We could pull up a hundred verses commanding man and woman to rise, to be as children of God, to be as Christ. Instead of listening to our own revelation some people are trapped by the visions of others. You can't theorize about "God", you have to live it. I'm not saying it's necessary to form our own religion, but know that divinity is within us. It's a start to establishing the "kingdom of heaven" here on earth.
 





DavidSon

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#37
...my personal view, however, is the apostate should maybe be given a stern talking to and a long lecture.... if they persist- more drastic measures may be required- an entire series of long lectures..... these long lectures may also involve dramatic hand gestures and finger waving
:D Honestly when the laws say to kill an evildoer, you can kill them spiritually- by cutting them off from your life. For someone to have their reputation ruined, or to be alienated by their community can be like death. The sinner might be allowed to live physically, but they'll never be free from the wrath of God.
 





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#39
We've had a few Christians show up but I'm the only person that's cited the Bible.
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.​
Psalms 53:1 - The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.