There Should Be Peace Between Muslims and Christians

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Wrong. The road to hell, is paved with good intentions.

9:6 They also decided, that they would celebrate his birthday and his crucifixion, and have now
made, what they falsely claim was his body’s birthday, into a sick-joke, turning it into an excuse to
make money.
9:7 Some of the evil people, who worship the devil’s standard, (money) make billions, whilst the
others are relatively good, for one day a year, and are bad for all the rest. They believe that because
they are what they think is relatively good, on Christ’s supposed birthday, which is really a pagan
feast-day, that that makes everything alright.
9:8 Do you think that God is stupid, and that you can get away with that?

You can not fool God, He knows everything that you are thinking.

You are only fooling yourselves!
Don't know what you are quoting (and not interested). But interesting how my point completely flew over your head. I don't like christmas myself, neither i celebrate them, but neither i observe Israel feast days... Argument can be made that as a Christian i should...Thats me, but if other people choose to celebrate Jesus birthday as believers, not as "consume everything" machines, they can do it any day they wan't ideally all 365 days per year. How the hell this prove they think God is stupid ? Some angry nonsense you are quoting...
 





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“Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes – from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly.” – The Holy Quran 60:8

God is great. What else needs to be said after that?
 





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Just sitting here calmly and typing.

Christianity is known to be very lukewarm these days. It's amazing what they teach people is supposedly "ok" now. And to not get "hung up" on just about anything that Christ taught and which the Bible says is sin and important to do or avoid doing.

Instead (most likely, on order of the pope - the jesuits were sent into all the protestant denominations) they are now teaching in the churches that everything is permissible, even (especially) when it breaks the Commandments and goes directly against what the Bible says. But, Christ prophesied that it would happen, just as it has:

Revelation
3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
A reply for those with ears to hear:-

1 Corinthians 9...

19For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. 20And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; 21To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. 22To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.23And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

My own social circle of unsaved friends and acquaintances are more moved by the unescapable reality of Jesus than by "religious" observance. You can go to church and go to hell! Zeal is love on fire, not just a passion for legalism, otherwise Jesus would have commended the pharasees.
 





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I live with a Christian girl. And she is the only one I can share the love of God to. And we can live in peace. Despite the fact that I disagree with couple theologician belief, like the blasphemy of prophet but we both are pretty enthusiastic to serve the will of God.
 





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Don't know what you are quoting (and not interested). But interesting how my point completely flew over your head. I don't like christmas myself, neither i celebrate them, but neither i observe Israel feast days... Argument can be made that as a Christian i should...Thats me, but if other people choose to celebrate Jesus birthday as believers, not as "consume everything" machines, they can do it any day they wan't ideally all 365 days per year. How the hell this prove they think God is stupid ? Some angry nonsense you are quoting...
It's not some angry nonsense, Vytas, but was actually quoting from Christ Himself as it is written in The Way home or face The Fire. Perhaps, this statement will change your mind from being not interested, to interested to investigate further. I agree with what you said though about that it should be Christ's day 365 days a year. The teaching that Xmas is Christ's supposed birthday and them having turned it into the single largest commercial retail event of the entire year just to have an excuse to make money, has made a complete mockery of Christ's teachings ("you cannot serve God and mammon/materialism" - Matt. 6:24).

How could we do that to Him?

Christmas day should now be abolished, and we should all do what Christ said, and love each other, and make it like Christ’s Day, every day, by becoming more like Christ, every day.
 





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A reply for those with ears to hear:-

1 Corinthians 9...

19For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. 20And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; 21To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. 22To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.23And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

My own social circle of unsaved friends and acquaintances are more moved by the unescapable reality of Jesus than by "religious" observance. You can go to church and go to hell! Zeal is love on fire, not just a passion for legalism, otherwise Jesus would have commended the pharasees.
Paul writing in his letter about him becoming "all things to all men" so he might gain some of them, is no excuse for condoning sin and wrongdoing and just letting it continue. Compassion and humility are important qualities for being able to correctly relate to one other and for being able to share the truth with others in a loving way. It doesn't mean you just go along with and allow evil to continue.

Christ says :-
Rev. 3:19 As many as I love, I REBUKE AND CHASTEN: be zealous therefore, and repent....3:22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
 





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Paul writing in his letter about him becoming "all things to all men" so he might gain some of them, is no excuse for condoning sin and wrongdoing and just letting it continue. Compassion and humility are important qualities for being able to correctly relate to one other and for being able to share the truth with others in a loving way. It doesn't mean you just go along with and allow evil to continue.

Christ says :-
Rev. 3:19 As many as I love, I REBUKE AND CHASTEN: be zealous therefore, and repent....3:22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
What sin do you believe Christians are condoning? Sorry - I'm getting a bit lost now!
 





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You have been avoiding the two questions that I've been asking you, regarding Xmas and Easter.

So what about Xmas?

The decking of fir trees with silver and gold and placing presents (offerings) under them is a pagan ritual condemned by God in the Bible in Jeremiah 10:2-4. Nimrod/Osiris/Horus is often pictured with wings, holding reindeer and a fir tree.

You said earlier that at your Independent Baptist church, the Bible is allowed to win every time.

Has the issue of Xmas ever come up, and been brought to their attention, please? If brought to their attention, do you think or believe that they would truly be willing to let God's Word in the Bible win, and stand over and above man-made tradition? Do you think they would be willing to discuss the issue of Jeremiah 10:2-4, and this obvious conflict with the widely celebrated Xmas tradition, with the congregation?

Or do you believe people have become far too attached to the worldly tradition, and would rather stay with the tradition than make changes, please?
Just in case you missed it (different tme zones and all) I started a new thread earlier this afternoon for you to defend JAHtruth's position on Christmas. https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/jahtruths-christmas-teachings.5251/
I will be interested in what I will read the morning from other people RE their own viewpoints on Christmas too.
Goodnight.
 





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What sin do you believe Christians are condoning? Sorry - I'm getting a bit lost now!
It should be obvious to anyone who is paying attention.

Christians are condoning (and/or continuing to take part in and therefore perpetuating) the very obvious sin of making a complete mockery of Jesus Christ and His teachings every single year during the completely pagan festival of Xmas (used to be called Yulitide) that God condemns in Jeremiah 10:2-4 and that Christ says that He HATES in His Revelation to the apostle John.

A case of willful blindness?

Jeremiah 10:2 Thus saith the "I AM", Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 10:3 For the customs of the people [are] vain: for [one] cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 10:4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

Matthew 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and materialism.

Xmas is the biggest commercial retail event of the year and is used as an excuse to make money (serving mammon/materialism) and they are abusing Christ's name in order to do it (serve mammon - serving Santa/Satan).
 





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It should be obvious to anyone who is paying attention.

Christians are condoning (and/or continuing to take part in and therefore perpetuating) the very obvious sin of making a complete mockery of Jesus Christ and His teachings every single year during the completely pagan festival of Xmas (used to be called Yulitide) that God condemns in Jeremiah 10:2-4 and that Christ said that He HATES in His Revelation to the apostle John.

A case of willful blindness?

Jeremiah 10:2 Thus saith the "I AM", Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 10:3 For the customs of the people [are] vain: for [one] cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 10:4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

Matthew 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and materialism.

Xmas is the biggest commercial retail event of the year and is used as an excuse to make money (serving mammon/materialism) and they are abusing Christ's name in order to do it (serve mammon - serving Santa/Satan).
In the spirit of what Paul was saying then, as far as my interractions with you, I would not dispute with you that Christmas was
a specifically Christian festival and I agree that it has nothing to do with the Bible. I wouldn't make a stand to interpolate Dec 25th into scripture, but on the other hand, I wouldn't be a meanie and stop my kids having Christmas presents and a good dinner either...
 





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I have never said that we shouldnt desire such things...



I think they try to but that doesnt stop Christ from being the Way the Truth and the Life. Regardless of any leader God spoke to my heart, convicted me of my Sins and gave me the opportunity to Repent and be Born Again and at the correct time lead me to a wonderful Church with other God Fearing Born Again Christians and has given me a Great Work there. If He has done this for me He will do it for you and anyone else who desires to truly know Him...



Facts? I gave straight up pew research, unbaised facts, did you bother to look at it? I am sure you didnt, go look at the % of Muslims that support murder for Apostasy, and as I stated the real concern is the SHEER NUMBERS of those who support it. It is easy to say oh its only 43% or 56% but its another thing to take the % and put it into actual NUMBERS.

The facts are, at least 584 MILLION Muslims around the world support murder for Apostate, that is close to double the population of America! That is ALOT of people who are ready to support killing you or Rose or Colgate for leaving Islam...



Islam as practiced in the Middle East is as close to how people lived 1500 than any other country save maybe if you find some native culture that has been wholly untouched by foreigners in the jungle or something. The idea that they adapt to the changes in society is something I disagree with, and to be fair in some aspects I can respect it. That means they are less likely to accept things that Christianity or Islam accepts as being Amoral. Homosexuality for instance, these nations and Islam in general doesnt tolerate Homosexuality openly. I dont agree with the murdering of Gay People but I respect the refusal to bow down to the Homosexual Agenda and allow it to be practiced openly or told that it is normal and ok...



https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-with-theocratic-governments-today.html

7 with only one not Muslim, that would be the Vatican. That is officially Theocracies, this isnt to speak of the dozens of Islamic Nations that have thousands of villages and communities and cities that are essentially Theocratic in form and function. Most of them abiding by the murdering of Apostates, again hundreds of millions of Muslims support this regardless of anything you want to say...



You have shown in this part of your post, you really have no clue concerning Christianity and why we dont stone homosexuals and thieves. I believe you have it utterly backwards, Society has been reflective of Christs end of the Law in practice. If Christ hadnt come and fulfilled the Law and it was to be mandated to all Nations then Society would reflect such things. Christianity REFORMED Nations, not the other way around. If you were a Christian or understood Christianity or History you would have recognized this fact long ago...



Because men are Evil, I seriously dont understand how that isnt something you cant comprehend. Also if it is not YOUR Religion that is the Theocracy then it means YOU die or are oppressed. As I stated to Colgate, are you going to be okay with Satans Theocracy if the New World Order emerges? I mean its gonna be a Theocracy and its probably going to force people to act in a certain manner that many may view as Righteous, at least outwardly...

If you were a Christian you would have a problem with an Islamic Theocracy that calls for you to be oppressed and makes it illegal for you to Preach the Gospel. If you were/are a Muslim and the Vatican ran the Theocracy as they did in the past you would have a problem with them murdering Muslims for not converting or oppressing them for not being Catholic.

Seriously how do you not get this?



Was it? Did you read what I quoted Colgate? God NEVER intended for their to be a Theocratic Monarchy, go read it man. Might want to study your Bible a bit more to learn what God REALLY wanted. He outright said that to call for a King was to remove Him as King, Israel rejected Him as their King when they asked for a King over them. They were EMULATING the Pagan Nations doing so...



Well I disagree with everything you said here pretty much. First off I understand reality which is there will never be a Government that is "Spiritually Enlightened" on this planet, and if there ever was to be one, then it would only be if Jesus Christ Himself was literally on the Earth as King. Every other Government will be ran by Humans who are inherently evil and have no desire for God. Thats Scripture...

Secondly. the Kingdom of Christ isnt of this world...

Thirdly if there was a Theocracy enacted, by definition it would NOT tolerate other Religions, just as I have asked Colgate, please show me a Theocracy where people can openly practice other Religions apart from the one defined by the Theocracy...



I think you better get your eyes checked, Islam permits P3d0philla, it permits r*pe, it permits beating of women, murdering gay people and those that choose to walk away from the Faith and many other terrible things, and that is just what is PERMISSIBLE within the Religion itself. That isnt including the fact there are plenty of Sins that are hidden. And that is my point, we can look at some aspects of its culture and say well they arent as horrible as say America, but when you go behind the veil you would see that they are just as evil and unrighteous as every other Culture...

The logical direction of my argument is to speak on the reality of Human Nature, the heart of men is Evil and all unregenerate people are wicked period. I can draw the comparison to the RCC as well, during its reign I am sure that they mandated certain things within their Culture and outwardly may have appeared that they were Righteous but of course they were practicing Evil in Secret. The same exact thing is literally seen in Israel, just read the Bible. The most prime example of this is Ezek 8, you should read the whole chapter but here are some highlights:

Ez 8:6 He said furthermore unto me, Son of man, seest thou what they do? even the great abominations that the house of Israel committeth here, that I should go far off from my sanctuary? but turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations.

9 And he said unto me, Go in, and behold the wicked abominations that they do here.
10 So I went in and saw; and behold every form of creeping things, and abominable beasts, and all the idols of the house of Israel, pourtrayed upon the wall round about.
11 And there stood before them seventy men of the ancients of the house of Israel, and in the midst of them stood Jaazaniah the son of Shaphan, with every man his censer in his hand; and a thick cloud of incense went up.
12 Then said he unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen what the ancients of the house of Israel do in the dark, every man in the chambers of his imagery? for they say, the Lord seeth us not; the Lord hath forsaken the earth.
13 He said also unto me, Turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations that they do.
14 Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the Lord's house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz.
15 Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations than these.

16 And he brought me into the inner court of the Lord's house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the Lord, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the Lord, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.

To sum it up in case someone isnt understanding whats going on here, God told Ezekiel in a Vision to go inside the Temple to see what the Priests were actually doing, you know the people who are supposed to be the leaders of the Theocracy, the people who are supposed to be Righteous and Holy and leading the Nation. What does Ezekiel see? That these people are worshiping other gods right inside of the Temple itself, they were worshiping the gods of Babylon INSIDE the Temple in Jerusalem.

Like I said men are Evil and it doesnt matter if they are following Islam or not, they are still practicing immorality just like Sodom and Gomorrah, even if it is done in secret, just like those Priests in Israel were, THAT is my point...



Absolutely not, I am preaching to mostly sinners and lost souls, the fact that you can not discern this shows much about your understanding. I can guarantee you that 80-90% of those who post and/or read these forums are Lost and heading to Hell. That is why I write what I write in hopes that they come to Christ and get Born Again...



As you have already been told, being Born Again isnt just accepting God and Christ as a conscious adult, it is a Spiritual Rebirth when one goes from being Dead Spiritually to being made Alive in Christ. It comes by Faith thru Grace when God is dealing with your heart and you have repentance towards Him believing on Him and Him Alone for Salvation. IDK what Born Again to you was, but there was a massive Spiritual Transformation that took place in my life, so maybe you and I have a completely different definition and experience as to what happens and what being Born Again is...



Then you dont believe the Word of God, who is right you or God?

Rom 3:4 ... yea, let God be true, but every man a liar;

Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Before someone is Born Again they are dead in their trespasses and sins, they are walking according to the Spirit that is within the Children of Disobedience and they are BY NATURE the Children of Wrath. Do you not believe this?

You must not or you wouldnt be trying to tell me that Muslims and Buddhists arent Dead Spiritually. Again its not what I am saying or teaching, its what the Word of God states, so either you can align and accept what Gods Word teaches or be in opposition to it. I am not going against His Word and I am not going to lie to these people and tell them they are Spiritually Alive when the Word of God states that they are dead, and the only hope they or I have/had was to believe in Christ and be made Spiritually Alive...



I am not sure if you mean the right as in they are correct and wholesome overall, or if you mean on the Political Spectrum. So are you saying that there are fake serpents in every religion but overall the majority are good, or are you saying there are fake serpents in every religion but the majority of the fake serpents are on the Right Wing Politically?

The fact is, there is only one correct Faith and that is in Christ, everything apart from Christ, that stands against it is a lie and wicked period. There is no such thing as "Good People" we all fall short of the Glory of God, all of our supposed Righteousness and "Good Works" are filthy rags before the Holy God, and everyones heart is utterly wicked and evil. The Nature of Man is Evil and Disobedient, this is Scripture, and the ONLY hope any of us have is to Repent and place all of our Faith in Christ and His Work on the Cross, Death and Resurrection and then we will be Born Again and have our wicked hearts transformed to hearts of Flesh, we will have the Holy Spirit take up residence inside of us and we will be sealed unto the day of Redemption. Everything apart from that, which is the Gospel, is a lie from Hell. Anyone who tells you anything other than that is a liar period...



How is my personal faith aka the method of understanding the World not relevant to the Topic? Whatever Topic I enter into my personal faith is going to play a part in it, I mean look at you, you are trying to speak to me about things in light of your personal faith. That is how things work, I tell you what I believe you tell me what you believe and we make cases to support our points and beliefs, counter others points when we disagree and then put it out in the ether for others to read and decide which argument they believe is most correct...



I am not condemning anyone, I am preaching the Gospel plain and simple. I am reiterating what the Word of God states, if you or other dont like it, then take it up with God, the author of His Word. Perverts are everywhere, Rapists are everywhere and if this was a Thread speaking on them specifically I would condemn them, but guess what, not until you mentioned it has it been brought up. So I have stuck to the Topics that have been mentioned in this Thread and have given my views and Scripture where needed to support those views. Who is feeling condemned by me? If they are then guess what that is man? It is called CONVICTION and its a good thing.

See if you say something that I know is untrue then I am not going to feel condemned at all, I wont care what you say and it wont bother me, such as if a Muslim tells me the Truth of his Religion that because I reject Muhammad then I am going to Hell, well IDC I know its not True. However if someone says something that cuts me because its True, then that is called Conviction and I am thankful for Conviction. That is when God is dealing with my heart to cause to Repent or accept something He wants me to, so that I can get closer to Him in my walk.

Here is what I have to say, if when I preach the Gospel on here and you or someone else feels something stirring in their Soul, even if it starts out as anger, then they need to honestly dwell on what and why they feel that way because there is a good chance that you are under Conviction and that God is dealing with your heart.



I dont have any idea what you are talking about as I havent read that thread nor what he posted. What I do know is that plenty of people hate when their Sins and their False Religion is called out and the Gospel is shined upon them in Truth and they consider it hateful and disrespectful when it is anything but that...

God is Love and the fact is not telling those who are Lost and heading to Hell that they are going there isnt Love, that is Hate period. Telling them about their position before God apart from Christ which is Lost, Condemned and under the Wrath of God, and explaining to them that God loves them so much that He came to Earth as a Man named Jesus Christ and took all their Sins upon Himself and took the Wrath of God on the Cross so that they can be Forgiven and seen as Righteous in Gods eye, and then on the 3rd Day Resurrected overcoming Death and Hell for them and all they have to do is cry out to God for Forgiveness and believe in Faith on Christ and Christ Alone and they will be saved, THAT is Love. Anything apart from telling them this, is hate period.

People dont like to hear this tho and say when the Gospel goes out, that the person preaching it is hateful or the Gospel is hateful. If you want to really show these people you love them, preach to them Christ Crucified, everything else pales in comparison...

Praise the Most High!

I respect your perspective. I share some of your beliefs, but have arrived at some different conclusions reading the Bible. I must say your zeal is an inspiration to keep re-reading, gathering insight. You've brought up a dozen topics worthy of discussion on their own but I'll try to respond to a few.

I still find it hard to believe worshipers of the God of Abraham could despise each other. In the big picture the followers of Christ and Muhammad have so many similarities; we were all brought closer to God because of their existence. Truly it could be debated whose devotion is stronger...

Technically only 4 theocracies exist: Mount Athos, the Holy See, Iran (also described as a theocratic republic), and the Central Tibetan Administration. There's around 50 nations that fall under the category of state religion. 1/2 of them are Islamic but the rest are Christian and Buddhist. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_religion. The Caliphate is not quite the threat the democrats would like us to believe lol. I will look up the death of apostates worldwide, but I don't think the numbers are there. I would rather see the laws than an opinion poll in this matter.

I agree that Christianity eventually "civilized" Europe, but as is being discussed here, it wasn't until the roman church began to to lose its 1000+ year grip over their empire that society could slowly reform beyond papal/tribal law. Even then, there's been countless deaths in the name of Christ over the past 500 years, let alone 2000. Islam also had their bloody battles.

What you're forgetting is how advanced the Islamic nations were compared to Europe at the time. I haven't even begun to study the richness that was brought north, from copies of classical literature, arithmetic, astronomy, urban planning and architecture, textiles, on and on. The world is deeply indebted to the advances the Arabs had made. Ever read much about the exchanges between Richard the Lionheart and Saladin? As vicious as they were there was an admiration for each other's chivalry. If the respect was there 800 years ago as warriors, it especially should be today.

We could summarize the last 2000 years by by saying there's been bloodshed everywhere and few of our ancestors are blameless. The relevant fact now is that in the 21st century the world is kept up to date on every incident and there's supposed to be a conscience. I feel the US (which is a Christian majority) has proven to be a far more grave threat to peace and democracy than a state like Iran. With the prison rates, suicide, divorce, abortions, (I could go on) of the West there's no room to judge the middle east.

I honestly would have no problem living under Islam. Less corruption, that's a fact. We worship the same God. Proselytizing is illegal, but I'm a quiet soul anyways. Why would you try to convert people that would never, in a bazillion lifetimes, ever switch faiths? That's vanity. I hear about persecution of Christians but those are isolated instances. The Rohingya Muslims are a better example of a victimized people. I am positive Islam to does not allow r*pe, beating women (maybe roughing up?), or other sinful acts. Is flogging someone for thievery as bad as the abuses we're hearing about in the Baptist church? Not even close.

What's mystic about the Bible is there's as many interpretations as copies in circulation. Between Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant and Non-Denominational there is a wealth of interpretation. You say that in the story the kingdom of Judah wasn't blessed at the time? David was anointed by the last judge and first prophet Samuel, and David had a direct relationship with the Father. I agree with what you're saying that the age of kings led to their eventual captivity, but that criticism is only possible with the scope of hindsight. The temple era was (literally) the golden age.

I guess I'm getting to where we really disagree on the message and relevancy of Jesus, (and how it applies to this topic). It sounds like you've been more effected by the teachings of your church and Paul than of Jesus. I just don't hear some of these phrases from Him in the Gospels- faith through grace, "conviction", God dying for our sins, children of sin and wrath... or that we're inherently evil. In his ministry Christ went directly to the synagogues to admonish the priests for their misunderstanding of God. As was written in Hosea, "I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgement of God rather than burnt offerings." This was the dawning of a new age. His message was chiefly about transforming our concept from materialism toward spirituality, a kingdom of heaven. Heaven and hell are not just physical places, they're states of mind.

This all returns to the relations of religions and nations. We're supposed to share the good news, not the bad haha. No one should be like those idiot Mormons who pushed themselves on the Native American tribes of the SW. They claimed to preach the gospel but all they did was destabilize an already battered people. We're fooling ourselves if we think we have love, but in the back of our minds we think we're better than others. The Wisdom and Heart of Christ is universal to all faiths. They all lead to love for nature/mankind, and thankfulness to God.
 





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Just in case you missed it (different tme zones and all) I started a new thread earlier this afternoon for you to defend JAHtruth's position on Christmas. https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/jahtruths-christmas-teachings.5251/
I will be interested in what I will read the morning from other people RE their own viewpoints on Christmas too.
Goodnight.
Is anyone other than me thinking of "Ja Rule" the rapper, or is it just me? I'm not mocking, just trying to bring some levity. Or Rastafarianism.
 





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In the spirit of what Paul was saying then, as far as my interractions with you, I would not dispute with you that Christmas was a specifically Christian festival and I agree that it has nothing to do with the Bible.
Understood.
I wouldn't make a stand to interpolate Dec 25th into scripture, but on the other hand, I wouldn't be a meanie and stop my kids having Christmas presents and a good dinner either...
It doesn't have to amount to being a meanie to the kids, because what could be done instead is while spending time with them, the truth about it can be explained to them and see if you can get them to understand it.

It could for instance be explained to them, that you want to teach them something better than what they know.

A lot of the time, when having to deal with issues like for instance this one, it may just depend on how the subject is going to be approached. Teaching them that the truth is of a higher value than a tradition, may seem like it is going to be difficult at first, but in the end, if you did it then there is a good chance they will most likely end up gaining more respect for you, in the end, because you stood up for the truth and what you believe in and did not hold it back from them (it shows you love them enough to tell them the truth).

Teaching them the truth and setting them a good example, is a much better present to give to children than giving them Christmas presents (Yuletide offerings) along with an opportunity to gorge themselves and be wasteful (as is typical of Xmas dinners). If it's explained to them calmly and lovingly, just about the facts, you may be surprised how they might react.

This may or may not depend much on age, but often, kids actually want to be different and have something they can stand up for. Perhaps, it may just be a matter of finding the right way to present it to them (to be able win them over, to your side of the argument).

A couple of good scriptures about the Xmas dinner issue, can be found in Romans and Philippians:

Romans 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Christ Jesus, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

Philippians 3:18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, [that they are] the enemies of the cross of Christ (the cross of "Self"-sacrifice): 3:19 Whose end [is] destruction, whose god [is their] belly, and [whose] glory [is] in their shame, who mind earthly things.)

Human children being presented with offerings (instead of being taught to be unselfish - to give their "selves" as presents to God) is teaching them the wrong values (increases arrogance and selfishness) which then causes them to learn to oppress adults (Isaiah 3:12).

Children should only be given useful things that they need and will be able to find useful (and/or could be used to teach them something useful) when they need it (which could be any day of the year):

"Children should get only what they need, when they need it and NOT get expensive useless rubbish that breaks and/or is quickly discarded. They need you to spend the time, that you spent working to buy presents, with them, teaching them love and how to behave properly, instead of feeding their egoes. Less time at work, for you, and more time with your children so that you are not strangers to each other."

These are just what has come to mind as being possible things that may serve to be helpful, in case you (or anyone else) were considering to try and address it at some point. Not meant to get too long, perhaps we should allow this thread to continue on with its intended topic now..
 





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@Red Sky at Morning If the children are grown, for instance, it can really be "Christmas" day every time you get to see them (but without the tree)! If you think of it like that, they will still think you are being a great dad (and probably better - because of standing up for your principles).

No need to wait for, or even be interested anymore in xmas.. that time of year when christian greed and phony sincerity reach their unctuous peak.
 





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Is anyone other than me thinking of "Ja Rule" the rapper, or is it just me? I'm not mocking, just trying to bring some levity. Or Rastafarianism.
No.

Psalm 2

2:1 Why do the unenlightened rage, and the people imagine a futile thing?
2:2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the "I AM", and against His Anointed, (2 Esd. 13:34) [saying],
2:3 Let us break Their bonds asunder, and cast away Their cords from us.
2:4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall make fools of them.
2:5 Then shall He speak unto them in His wrath, and terrify them in His fury.
2:6 Yet have I set My King (to govern - Isa. 9:6-7) upon My Holy Hill of Gathering (Isa. 33:16; 2 Esd. 13:35).
2:7 I will declare the decree: the "I AM" hath said unto me, Thou [art] My Son; this day have I created for thee.
2:8 Ask of Me, and I shall give [thee] the unenlightened [for] thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth [for] thy possession.
2:9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel (Rev. 12:5).
2:10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
2:11 Serve the "I AM" with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
2:12 Kiss My Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish [from] The Way, when his wrath is kindled just a little (Luke 19:27). Blessed [are] all they that put their trust in him.

Psalm
68:1 <To the chief Musician, A Psalm [or] Song of David.> Let God arise, let His enemies be scattered: let them also that hate Him flee before Him.
68:2 As smoke is driven away, [so] drive [them] away: as wax melteth before the fire, [so] let the wicked perish at the presence of God.
68:3 But let the righteous be glad; let them rejoice before God: yea, let them exceedingly rejoice.
68:4 Sing unto God, sing praises to His name: extol Him that rideth upon the heavens by His name JAH, and rejoice before Him.
 





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@Red Sky at Morning If the children are grown, for instance, it can really be "Christmas" day every time you get to see them (but without the tree)! If you think of it like that, they will still think you are being a great dad (and probably better - because of standing up for your principles).

No need to wait for, or even be interested anymore in xmas.. that time of year when christian greed and phony sincerity reach their unctuous peak.
As a possible spanner in the works of the "Saturnalia" narrative, it turns out that the Wise Men may well have looked in on Jesus around Dec 25th and gave him some gifts at that point. I wouldn't make a doctrine of it, but I found this interesting!

 





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Just in case you missed it (different tme zones and all) I started a new thread earlier this afternoon for you to defend JAHtruth's position on Christmas. https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/jahtruths-christmas-teachings.5251/
I will be interested in what I will read the morning from other people RE their own viewpoints on Christmas too.
Goodnight.
I didn't ask you for a thread to be started on the topic, but you are of course welcome to have the desired discussion there. So thank-you for the invitation, but I'm going to have to decline it at this point, and say no thank-you, as I'm pressed for time and have some other things I need to tend to. Please see http://jahtruth.net/xmas
Peace be upon you, bible student.
 





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Etagloc

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Just sitting here calmly and typing.

Christianity is known to be very lukewarm these days. It's amazing what they teach people is supposedly "ok" now. And to not get "hung up" on just about anything that Christ taught and which the Bible says is sin and important to do or avoid doing.

Instead (most likely, on order of the pope - the jesuits were sent into all the protestant denominations) they are now teaching in the churches that everything is permissible, even (especially) when it breaks the Commandments and goes directly against what the Bible says. But, Christ prophesied that it would happen, just as it has:

Revelation
3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
The Christians here themselves are mostly either lukewarm or not very bright.

If you're an intelligent Christian and not lukewarm- you should be the first to call out the lukewarmness of today's Christianity.
Should you fail to do so, I think you're either lukewarm or not very intelligent.

One of the two has to be lacking in such a case- either the person is lacking in intelligence or they are lacking in seriousness.

You see the Christians are gung-ho and fired up when it comes to harassing Muslims and antagonizing Muslims- but they're not gung-ho and fired-up when it comes to implementing the Bible. They want to claim Christianity but they don't actually want to live it.

If you're actually a sincere Christian- the lukewarmness of today's Christianity should drive you crazy. It should make you furious. You should be filled with a burning desire to "wake up" the Christians. And if you are intelligent, you will easily grasp that this means confronting the lukewarmness. If they don't grasp this, they're either lacking in seriousness or lacking in intelligence.

I don't think it's that they're lacking in intelligence, however. I think they're lacking in seriousness.

Rather than be driven crazy by the sorry state of affairs- the Christians are very much at peace with it. In fact, they want more confrontation with Muslims, as their Zionist masters are pushing for.

And if you address the lukewarmness- they try to attack you for mentioning it and they deny it. "Everything is fine, nothing is wrong". So they're interesting in covering up the plain facts. Were they serious people, they would be the first to confront the facts and move from there. Instead they absolutely insist on not addressing the facts. Christianity is dying out in the West, the grandchildren of these Christians probably won't even be cultural Christians and because Christians lack the will to really fight for what they allegedly believe... the demise of Christianity in such communities will be deserved. In fact, they deserve to be replaced with Muslims- who really wish to live by their beliefs. The world would be made a better place and the West could quit exporting degeneracy and start to learn about life beyond hedonism and materialism.
 





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The Christians here themselves are mostly either lukewarm or not very bright.

If you're an intelligent Christian and not lukewarm- you should be the first to call out the lukewarmness of today's Christianity.
Should you fail to do so, I think you're either lukewarm or not very intelligent.

One of the two has to be lacking in such a case- either the person is lacking in intelligence or they are lacking in seriousness.

You see the Christians are gung-ho and fired up when it comes to harassing Muslims and antagonizing Muslims- but they're not gung-ho and fired-up when it comes to implementing the Bible. They want to claim Christianity but they don't actually want to live it.

If you're actually a sincere Christian- the lukewarmness of today's Christianity should drive you crazy. It should make you furious. You should be filled with a burning desire to "wake up" the Christians. And if you are intelligent, you will easily grasp that this means confronting the lukewarmness. If they don't grasp this, they're either lacking in seriousness or lacking in intelligence.

I don't think it's that they're lacking in intelligence, however. I think they're lacking in seriousness.

Rather than be driven crazy by the sorry state of affairs- the Christians are very much at peace with it. In fact, they want more confrontation with Muslims, as their Zionist masters are pushing for.

And if you address the lukewarmness- they try to attack you for mentioning it and they deny it. "Everything is fine, nothing is wrong". So they're interesting in covering up the plain facts. Were they serious people, they would be the first to confront the facts and move from there. Instead they absolutely insist on not addressing the facts. Christianity is dying out in the West, the grandchildren of these Christians probably won't even be cultural Christians and because Christians lack the will to really fight for what they allegedly believe... the demise of Christianity in such communities will be deserved. In fact, they deserve to be replaced with Muslims- who really wish to live by their beliefs. The world would be made a better place and the West could quit exporting degeneracy and start to learn about life beyond hedonism and materialism.
That is simply not true. Quite a few Christians on here are lamenting and moaning about the lukewarmness of the church and calling out falsehood and false teaching. You see what you want to see. You do not have the market share on the truth.
 





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The Christians here themselves are mostly either lukewarm or not very bright.

If you're an intelligent Christian and not lukewarm- you should be the first to call out the lukewarmness of today's Christianity.
Should you fail to do so, I think you're either lukewarm or not very intelligent.

One of the two has to be lacking in such a case- either the person is lacking in intelligence or they are lacking in seriousness.

You see the Christians are gung-ho and fired up when it comes to harassing Muslims and antagonizing Muslims- but they're not gung-ho and fired-up when it comes to implementing the Bible. They want to claim Christianity but they don't actually want to live it.

If you're actually a sincere Christian- the lukewarmness of today's Christianity should drive you crazy. It should make you furious. You should be filled with a burning desire to "wake up" the Christians. And if you are intelligent, you will easily grasp that this means confronting the lukewarmness. If they don't grasp this, they're either lacking in seriousness or lacking in intelligence.

I don't think it's that they're lacking in intelligence, however. I think they're lacking in seriousness.

Rather than be driven crazy by the sorry state of affairs- the Christians are very much at peace with it. In fact, they want more confrontation with Muslims, as their Zionist masters are pushing for.

And if you address the lukewarmness- they try to attack you for mentioning it and they deny it. "Everything is fine, nothing is wrong". So they're interesting in covering up the plain facts. Were they serious people, they would be the first to confront the facts and move from there. Instead they absolutely insist on not addressing the facts. Christianity is dying out in the West, the grandchildren of these Christians probably won't even be cultural Christians and because Christians lack the will to really fight for what they allegedly believe... the demise of Christianity in such communities will be deserved. In fact, they deserve to be replaced with Muslims- who really wish to live by their beliefs. The world would be made a better place and the West could quit exporting degeneracy and start to learn about life beyond hedonism and materialism.
This is more of a polemic than a point @Etagloc

Please substantiate the areas where you feel the Christians here are "lukewarm"