Theocratic Israel

[Lisa]

kissing it isn't an act of worship towards the stone, it is as act of love towards an object that the prophet himself touched, that according to islamic belief dates to the time of Adam and Eve.

That [is so]. And whoever honors the symbols of Allah - indeed, it is from the piety of hearts.
(سورة الحج, Al-Hajj, Chapter #22, Verse #32)

If you were touching something Jesus touched, would you not kiss it? surely you would feel something in your heart?

You are describing worship..you worship your prophet and also the stone that he touched and kissed.

I wouldn’t kiss anything that Jesus touched, no. I don’t even have a desire to go to Israel to see the place Jesus walked and lived.

 

[Lisa]

And the Israelites worshiped at the tabernacle, they must have worshiped the tabernacle as God, oh no! the Israelites worshiped a house!

You believe that a man is God, so you have no argument you can make against those who believe in the absolute transcendence, the absolute eternal formless, all-encompassing oneness of God. Those who reject any idol and association with God.

You worship an idol, you have nothing on us
Your comments are a as hypocritical as a person can be (exception that what you claim about us is false, whereas what we claim about you is what you proudly proclaim about yourself - e.g. "Jesus is God" aka, 2+2=5).

They worshipped God at the tabernacle..doesn’t say they worshipped the tabernacle itself.

I believe that Jesus was also God..yes. He came down from heaven to take our sins and could only do it if He were also a man..then He didn’t stay dead, He went back up to heaven and sits at the right hand of God.

Jesus is God, they are 3 but 1 God....do you need the egg analogy again?

An egg, 3 parts but still 1 egg. There is a yolk, a shell and egg whites. We think of all three parts separately but we all know this to be 1 egg, 3 in 1. That’s the closest analogy we can come to for God. He is 3 persons but 1 God.

 

[Infinityloop]

“As Bill Bennet once put it, somewhat mystically, America’s fate and Israel’s fate are one and the same.”- Jim Lobe(of lobelog)

I think that this is an important question to ask, aswell as to ponder. What would a full-fledged theocratic Israel mean, not just for the Middle East but especially for U.S foreign policy in the region and subsequently domestic policy, if this is any indication?

As with any discussion revolving Israel, it wanders off into the religious and even though I’ve put this in the religious section, I’d much prefer the answers heavily lean toward the political and not just having verses thrown around. Also, everyone is free to speculate as to what the aforementioned fate is.

Israel's ‘Rule of the Rabbis’ Who Preach Genocide Fuels Holy War

Israel’s religious population is growing in influence, schools are teaching extreme religious ideology, and radical rabbis are preaching genocide.

israelpalestinenews.org

Why Religious policies in Israel matter to Us Gentiles

My view (and what the Bible itself says) is that the Israelites (not the modern Jews), where one nation chosen for a mission. That mission however was not eternal, it was for a stretch of history, times have changed.
Israelites, Jews etc have no supremacy over any other people. It was that they had a task and failed.
Similar thing with Jesus actually, he had a task but people would not accept his message, so he was postponed and an alien religion has been constructed around him as an idol.

In the current times, Jews are focusing on a certain mythological view of their historical role. We are not living in 900BCE anymore, we are living in 2020CE.

Israel itself as a country is illegitimate. Jews as a secular people and religion are legitimate, but their presumed 'role' is not.

However Judaism itself is far better than Christians typically make it out to be. Judaism for the most part is a genuine religion that tries to worship the One God.
Christians who complain about Jews following the Talmud are hypocrites as such Christians follow the New Testament - exactly the same boat. Christians plaster over the Old Testament in the exact same identical way, there is no difference. The fearporn around Jews is not justified.

Either way, most of the mythology of a chosen people as identified with overall geopolitics and current events is not really provable. It's an interesting idea, sure, but it's not provable.
The only thing that we are getting in the current religio-politics is extreme polarization, nothing much else.

 

[Orwell's mentor]

They worshipped God at the tabernacle..doesn’t say they worshipped the tabernacle itself.

I believe that Jesus was also God..yes. He came down from heaven to take our sins and could only do it if He were also a man..then He didn’t stay dead, He went back up to heaven and sits at the right hand of God.

Jesus is God, they are 3 but 1 God....do you need the egg analogy again?

An egg, 3 parts but still 1 egg. There is a yolk, a shell and egg whites. We think of all three parts separately but we all know this to be 1 egg, 3 in 1. That’s the closest analogy we can come to for God. He is 3 persons but 1 God.

What in the WORLD does this have to do with OP, Lisa? Are you going to answer Karly's questions, or is this just another simpleton thread about Jesus being part of an egg, which somehow is supposed to explain the Trinity, or how different religions worship God?

Do you not get tired of posting the same thing, thread after thread, year after year? It sure gets rather pedestrian to read.

 

[Infinityloop]

They worshipped God at the tabernacle..doesn’t say they worshipped the tabernacle itself.

Show us in the Qur'an where it says we worship the black stone. I'm waiting.

 

[Infinityloop]

He went back up to heaven and sits at the right hand of God.

LOLOLOL!!!!

You basically admitted there that he isn't God.

 

[Vision]

We're waiting @Lisa

 

[Lisa]

My view (and what the Bible itself says) is that the Israelites (not the modern Jews), where one nation chosen for a mission. That mission however was not eternal, it was for a stretch of history, times have changed.
Israelites, Jews etc have no supremacy over any other people. It was that they had a task and failed.
Similar thing with Jesus actually, he had a task but people would not accept his message, so he was postponed and an alien religion has been constructed around him as an idol.

In the current times, Jews are focusing on a certain mythological view of their historical role. We are not living in 900BCE anymore, we are living in 2020CE.

Israel itself as a country is illegitimate. Jews as a secular people and religion are legitimate, but their presumed 'role' is not.

However Judaism itself is far better than Christians typically make it out to be. Judaism for the most part is a genuine religion that tries to worship the One God.
Christians who complain about Jews following the Talmud are hypocrites as such Christians follow the New Testament - exactly the same boat. Christians plaster over the Old Testament in the exact same identical way, there is no difference. The fearporn around Jews is not justified.

Either way, most of the mythology of a chosen people as identified with overall geopolitics and current events is not really provable. It's an interesting idea, sure, but it's not provable.
The only thing that we are getting in the current religio-politics is extreme polarization, nothing much else.

God can never reject His people...

Romans‬ ‭11:1‬ ‭
I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be!​

What alien religion was constructed around Jesus?

John‬ ‭3:16‬ -18
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.​

‭‭

‭‭

 

[Lisa]

We're waiting @Lisa

For what?

 

[Lisa]

LOLOLOL!!!!

You basically admitted there that he isn't God.

He came down from heaven...who lives in heaven but God?

 

[Lisa]

Show us in the Qur'an where it says we worship the black stone. I'm waiting.

You kiss it don’t ya? You make a pilgrimage to it, don’t ya? That’s worship.

 

[Infinityloop]

You kiss it don’t ya? You make a pilgrimage to it, don’t ya? That’s worship.

I asked you a question, are you going to answer it or not?
Provide proof in the Qur'an that we worship the black stone.

 

[AspiringSoul]

You are describing worship..you worship your prophet and also the stone that he touched and kissed.

I wouldn’t kiss anything that Jesus touched, no. I don’t even have a desire to go to Israel to see the place Jesus walked and lived.

I kiss my mother too.

#lisa
'dat wership tho'
'you wership yo mummy tho'

 

[Infinityloop]

What alien religion was constructed around Jesus?‭

Christianity, period.

 

[Infinityloop]

I kiss my mother too.

#lisa
'dat wership tho'
'you wership yo mummy tho'

So true bro

Same for one's partner "yo weshep ur spouce, idilitry! idilitry!"

 

[Lisa]

I asked you a question, are you going to answer it or not?
Provide proof in the Qur'an that we worship the black stone.

You guys go on a pilgrimage to kiss a stone that your prophet kissed...is that not worship? Didn’t you say you do it because he did it?

 

[Infinityloop]

You guys go on a pilgrimage to kiss a stone that your prophet kissed...is that not worship? Didn’t you say you do it because he did it?

So you admit you have no proof?

(why am I not surprise that you speak out your ***?)

 

[Lisa]

I kiss my mother too.

#lisa
'dat wership tho'
'you wership yo mummy tho'

Idk if you worship your mom too...but if you go on a pilgrimage to kiss a stone that was kissed by your prophet..that would be considered an act of worship.

 

[Lisa]

Christianity, period.

How is Christianity alien? God had people sacrificing for their sins..Jesus happens to be the once for all sacrifice for sins...just believing on Him is all that is needed now. That’s not alien to what God did in the NT.

 

[Infinityloop]

Interesting thought experiment though (aka this is mocking you, if you're too daft to tell):

"The black stone is an incarnation of God, God the son. Just because it's convoluted doesn't make it false, it's that we don't have the wisdom to understand the nature of how God can be transcendent, yet also a stone. The stone died for our sins, if you believe in the stone you will have eternal life."

As a hypothetical thought experiment the stone is at least more convincing as God than a mere man (and considering that it was around in the time of Abraham). However even facetiously playing around with that idiotic idea would make some Christian here take my joke seriously.
If you're going to make up a myth about a group that is beyond absurdity, then experiment with it. Lisa has now converted to Islam and has accepted the black stone as her lord and savior who died for her sins and through the stones sacrifice she has been healed and born again by the holy spirits.
Yes, I have decided to go there.