The Way: Q&a With Christians

Damien50

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I think you'd be better suited using the word, "gospel" where you use the word, "salvation."

Salvation isn't "The way." The gospel is "The way."

Salvation is one aspect of the gospel. The gospel is encompassed within ALL Jesus's words. The gospels "Jesus words" explain the gospel. Jesus's parables don't speak regarding salvation (if I am remembering correctly) they speak regarding what happens after the vessels are born again (salvation).

So long story short, salvation is one aspect of the gospel. The gospel is the big picture whereas Salvation is one color. But I agree without salvation (born again) one cannot experience the gospel.
I was specifically asking about salvation.

*edit. Someone dragged me into a conversation on sin at work and insisted that sin was sin regardless of the intent.

Example being if an orphan child knowingly stole to feed himself or if someone lies to protect themselves or others.

They insisted that the sin was just that and that circumstances were irrelevant.

Opinions? Verses? Have a good weekend everyone.
 
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Karlysymon

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Come to think of it, without the cross, Christianity wouldn't be any different from any other faith. It would remain that it has a guy or a bunch of guys with feel-good quotes and some life lessons. Christianity finds its identity, its definition in the cross. Lucky for me, i found this question today:
What motivates you to be a Christian? Why are you a Christian?
Personally, in trying to understand the question of sin (which began in heaven), the Fall and man's redemption, at the end of that road i've found the cross. And that also calls for understanding the Person that hung on it. [This leads to the other point up for discussion]. Others may not find it relevant but it is important to me because i don't want to sleep-walk through my beliefs. They have to make sense to me; be worth my time, but also make sense in the grand scheme of things.
Personally, i maintain that the identity (whether He is God or not) of Christ is central/paramount to man's redemption. Either position completely changes the meaning of the cross. If He isn't a diety and just a perfect man, then all we needed was His beautiful teaching to remedy the loss acquired in Eden and His mission need not have required the cross and yet He ended up on it. For millenia, the Jewish sacrificial system, the prophecies all pointed to this grand event and yet, somehow we underestimate what called for it in the first place or even pretend said event never happened. Surely, God wouldn't have wasted His time with all this if, all we needed, was some nice teaching for the salvation of our souls. Sin began in heaven, what safeguard(s) does the 'remain camp' have ? Clearly, the angels aren't robots. They do have freewill. Could a mere, perfect human being procure what heavenly and earthly intelligences require? If Christ was just a man, it would mean He has freewill hence the ability to rebel/sin. Does His death mean He procured His own 'safety' too? Then, if He could 'save' Himself, why couldn't we save ourselves too?
Quote:
The significance of the death of Christ will be
seen by saints and angels. Fallen men could not have a home in the paradise of God without the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Shall we not then exalt the cross of Christ? The angels ascribe honor and glory to Christ, for even they are not
secure except by looking to the sufferings of the Son of God. It is through the efficacy of the cross that the angels of heaven are
guarded from apostasy. Without the cross they would be no more secure against evil than were the angels before the fall of Satan. Angelic perfection
failed in heaven. Human
perfection failed in Eden, the paradise of bliss. All who wish for security in earth or heaven must look to the Lamb of God.
[end quote]
Like that verse in 1 Peter, the (mercy seat/atonement) cover of the ark of the covenant had 2 Cherubim looking towards it (Exodus 37:9), signifying angelic interest in redemption/reconciliation of all things whether on earth or in heaven (Colossians 1:19-20). And maybe, this should help clue us in on the identity of the person who, alone, could accomplish such a feat. And if it took the cross to reconcile all things, what does that say to us about sin/rebellion? Thus, the Fall of man doesn't look so trivial to me.
 
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Karlysymon

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Quote:
Because of its divine origin, human free will is protected and respected by God. The Creator does not interfere with the
deepest, persistent choices of men and women. Wrong choices have consequences, sometimes very terrible ones,too, but it is against the character of our sovereign Lord to force compliance or
obedience. God is love.......
The cross is a revelation
to our dull senses of the pain that, from its very inception, sin has brought to the heart of God. Every departure from the right,
every deed of cruelty, every failure of humanity to reach His ideal, brings grief to Him. When there came upon Israel the calamities that were the sure result of separation from God,-
subjugation by their enemies, cruelty, and death,-it is said that 'His soul was grieved for the
misery of Israel.' 'In all their affliction He was afflicted: . . . and He bare them, and carried them all the days of old.' Judges 10:16; Isaiah 63:9.

[end quote]
 

Karlysymon

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Quote:
The student of the Bible should be taught to approach it in the spirit of a learner. We are to search its pages, not for proof to sustain our opinions, but in order to know what God says.

Religious teachers have led souls to perdition while professing to guide them
to the gates of Paradise.
Not until the day of final accounts will it be known how great is the responsibility of men in holy office and how terrible are the results of their unfaithfulness.
Only in eternity can we rightly estimate the loss of a single soul.
 
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Karlysymon

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The errors of popular theology have driven many a soul to skepticism who might otherwise have been a believer in the Scriptures. It is impossible
for him to accept doctrines which outrage his sense of justice, mercy, and benevolence;and since these are represented
as the teaching of the Bible, he refuses to receive it as the word of God. And this is the object which
Satan seeks to accomplish.
There is nothing that he desires more than to destroy confidence in God and in His word. Satan stands at the head of the great army of doubters,
and he works to the utmost of his power to beguile souls into his ranks. It is becoming
fashionable to doubt. There is a large class by whom the word of God is looked upon with distrust for the same reason as
was its Author--because it
reproves and condemns sin. Those who are unwilling to obey its requirements endeavor to overthrow its authority. They read the Bible, or listen to its teachings as presented from the
sacred desk, merely to find fault with the Scriptures or with the
sermon. Not a few become infidels in order to justify or excuse themselves in neglect of
duty. Others adopt skeptical principles from pride and indolence, they aim to secure a reputation for superior wisdom by criticizing the Bible.
There is much which the finite mind, unenlightened by divine wisdom, is powerless to comprehend; and thus they find
occasion to criticize. There are many who seem to feel that it is a virtue to stand on the side of unbelief, skepticism, and infidelity. But underneath an appearance of candor it will be found that such persons are actuated by self-confidence and
pride. Many delight in finding something in the Scriptures to puzzle the minds of others.
Some at first criticize and
reason on the wrong side, from a mere love of controversy. They do not realize that they are thus entangling themselves in the snare of the fowler. But having openly expressed unbelief, they
feel that they must maintain their position. Thus they unite with the ungodly and close to themselves the gates of
Paradise. God has given in His word sufficient evidence of its divine
character. The great truths
which concern our redemption are clearly presented. By the aid
of the Holy Spirit, which is promised to all who seek it in sincerity, every man may understand these truths for himself. God has granted to men a strong foundation upon which
to rest their faith. Yet the finite minds of men are
inadequate fully to comprehend the plans and purposes of the Infinite One. We can never by
searching, find out God. We must not attempt to lift with presumptuous hand the curtain behind which He veils His majesty. The apostle exclaims:
"How unsearchable are His
judgments, and His ways past finding out!" Romans 11:33. We can so far comprehend His
dealings with us, and the
motives by which He is
actuated, that we may discern boundless love and mercy united to infinite power. Our Father in heaven orders everything in wisdom and righteousness, and we are not to be dissatisfied and
distrustful, but to bow in
reverent submission. He will reveal to us as much of His purposes as it is for our good to know, and beyond that we must trust the Hand that is omnipotent, the Heart that is full of love. While God has given ample evidence for faith, He will never remove all excuse for unbelief. All who look for hooks to hang their doubts upon will find them. And those who refuse to accept and obey God's word until every objection has been
removed, and there is no longer an opportunity for doubt, will never come to the light. Distrust of God is the natural outgrowth of the unrenewed heart, which is at enmity with
Him. But faith is inspired by the Holy Spirit, and it will flourish only as it is cherished. No man can become strong in faith
without a determined effort. Unbelief strengthens as it is
encouraged; and if men, instead of dwelling upon the evidences which God has given to sustain their faith, permit themselves to
question and cavil, they will find their doubts constantly becoming more confirmed. But those who doubt God's promises and distrust the assurance of His grace are dishonoring Him; and their influence, instead of drawing
others to Christ, tends to repel them from Him. There is but one course for
those to pursue who honestly desire to be freed from doubts.
Instead of questioning and
caviling concerning that which they do not understand, let them give heed to the light which already shines upon them, and they will receive
greater light. Let them do every duty which has been made plain to their understanding, and they will be enabled to understand and perform those of which they are now in doubt. Satan can present a counterfeit
so closely resembling the truth that it deceives those who are willing to be deceived, but it is impossible for him to hold under his power one soul who honestly desires,
at whatever cost, to know the truth. Christ is the truth and the "Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world." John 1:9. The Spirit of
truth has been sent to guide men into all truth. And upon the authority of the Son of God it is
declared: "Seek, and ye shall find." "If any man will do His will, he shall know of the doctrine." Matthew 7:7; John
7:17.
 

Karlysymon

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.........We do not know why sin arose in Lucifer. The fact that this occurred in a
perfect being reveals in a
powerful way the reality of freewill and free choice as part of God's government. God created all intelligent creatures as good; they were moral beings with a
good moral nature. There was nothing in them leaning toward evil. How, then, did sin arise in
Lucifer? The answer is that there is no answer. There is no excuse for sin. If an excuse for it could be found, then God could
ultimately be held responsible for it. As humans we are used to
cause/effect relationships. But sin does not have a cause; there is simply no reason for it. It's irrational and nonsensical. Lucifer could not justify his actions, especially as one so favored of God. Somehow, though, through abusing free will, Lucifer corrupted himself,
and from being the "light
bearer," he became Satan, "the adversary." Though there's a lot we don't understand, we should
understand enough to know just how careful we ourselves need to be with the sacred gift of free will and free choice.
.........When God first established Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, He entrusted them with the management of Eden (Gen. 2:8, 15), and the care of all creatures in the waters, skies,and upon the earth (Gen. 1:26, 28). When Adam named all the animals, he demonstrated his stewardship over them. Usually the one with authority over something can give it a name; so, by naming all creatures,
Adam was clearly demonstrating his status as the ruler of the world. When Adam lost that dominion, Satan very quickly filled the vacuum. The opening chapters of the book of Job reveal to us just how extensive Adam's loss was.
As we are given a glimpse into the throne room of the universe, we can also see how subordinate to nature the human race has become since the Fall.
 

Todd

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I believe God allowed sin to happen so we could know and appreciate what Holiness is. You can't understand or appreciate the concept of hot without cold. You can't understand or appreciate the concpet of darkness without light. You can't undestand the goodness of God without evil. That fact that God is good and merciful means he will destroy evil and the consequences of evil (death) after all of creation has experiened it. This temporal realm of evil and death is just a a drop in the bucket to the glory and blessings we will experience in the ages to come. However we will be much more capable of appreciating that glory and blessing, because of the experience of this lifetime. Of course what I am saying makes more sense if you accept Universal Reconciliation and reject Eternal Torment.
 

True World Order

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What is "the Way"?

I thought the Tao was "the Way"...

It's all the same stuff at the end of the day anyway...

17:84
Say: "Everyone acts according to his own disposition: But your Lord knows best who it is that is best guided on the Way."
 

Todd

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What is "the Way"?
The first century followers of Jesus in Jerusalem were called "The way". Jesus said he was the "way", the truth and the light. All three of these things were traditional Hebrew idioms for the Torah. The torah is best described as God's guidance and instruction for living....i.e. "the way" God wants us to live. Jesus said the Torah could be summed up this way..."Love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength and Love your neighbor as yourself."

Simple enough?
 

True World Order

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Yes, thank you Todd. I know what you are talking about, I have just never heard of Christians calling what they do "the way" before...

I know the Tao translates into "the way" in English. Muslims call Islam the "deen" which means religion and way of life. I love these kinds of similarities, it's not just about what you believe in, but also how you live your life. Faith + works, basically. It's such a shame that we all seem to want to overlook all the good advice and overarching spiritual themes in all these various religions and just kill each other over the petty details...

Allah's Sunnah never changes.
There is nothing new under the sun.

I was going to ask which particular variety of Christianity is the correct one, but I don't really want to go there. It's not "the Way".
 

Karlysymon

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I believe God allowed sin to happen so we could know and appreciate what Holiness is. You can't understand or appreciate the concept of hot without cold. You can't understand or appreciate the concpet of darkness without light. You can't undestand the goodness of God without evil. That fact that God is good and merciful means he will destroy evil and the consequences of evil (death) after all of creation has experiened it. This temporal realm of evil and death is just a a drop in the bucket to the glory and blessings we will experience in the ages to come. However we will be much more capable of appreciating that glory and blessing, because of the experience of this lifetime. Of course what I am saying makes more sense if you accept Universal Reconciliation and reject Eternal Torment.
I believe God allowed sin to happen so we could know and appreciate what Holiness is. You can't understand or appreciate the concept of hot without cold. You can't understand or appreciate the concpet of darkness without light. You can't undestand the goodness of God without evil. That fact that God is good and merciful means he will destroy evil and the consequences of evil (death) after all of creation has experiened it. This temporal realm of evil and death is just a a drop in the bucket to the glory and blessings we will experience in the ages to come. However we will be much more capable of appreciating that glory and blessing, because of the experience of this lifetime. Of course what I am saying makes more sense if you accept Universal Reconciliation and reject Eternal Torment.
Ofcourse, with a contrast, we appreciate something (a little) more but it doesn't actually mean we need the contrast in the first place. To claim the latter is to excuse or legitimize the presence of said contrast.
 
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