The VC “Case For Christ” Thread

Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
13,930
To you be your religion and to me mine.

Jesus (Peace and Prayers be upon him) does not have any attribute of Godliness.

Godliness is Proper to God and God Alone. If you can't feel such gratitude towards your Creator that you can't help but liken and belittle Him to a being (however special he may be) that took birth in a lowly yet respectful manner like we all did, i don't know what else to tell you. Maybe my words might be of help to you when you find yourself resolved to give up that arrogance of yours concerning your beliefs. All the best!
I have all the arrogance of someone standing eating an apple whilst listening to someone trying various arguments on them why apples are not real.

If you have never tried one yourself, and have been told they were actually optical illusions, you would certainly be forgiven for having your doubts. I hope in saying this you don't find me flippant, but you deserve my honest replies.

Peace be upon you.
 
Joined
Mar 20, 2017
Messages
2,065
@God_Is_Formless - for my part, I can honestly echo the words and sentiment of Paul...

Philippians 1

21For to me to live is Christ, and to die isgain. 22But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not. 23For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: 24Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you. 25And having this confidence, I know that I shall abide and continue with you all for your furtherance and joy of faith; 26That your rejoicing may be more abundant in Jesus Christ for me by my coming to you again.

Does that make more sense to you?
Not really except if

For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.

Perhaps so, if you follow Jesus to the letter, place your forehead on the ground for The One Responsible for existence itself. And to die is gain for sure because we are trapped here in a sense. We have to pass out urine and stools after drinking and eating. We are subject to some kind of unpleasantness although it is quite pleasurable too at the same time to be occupying such a beautiful body. With death comes deliverance from this worldly prison where we need to believe in The Unseen despite having seen it. With death, the eyes will truly open so as to be able to now behold marvels such as angels and life after death itself, the truth of it all.

But if i live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what i shall choose i wot not.

I can't really interpret the ''wot'' part. Anyway, we all live in the flesh and we will all reap what we have sown, so yeah why not?

Anyhow, i can understand the sentiments of Paul's thrilling love and bewilderment by following The Teacher for that time. But that's it, Jesus was nothing more than a teacher for his era. Same thing goes for Muhammad, Moses, Joseph, Aaron, David, and all other Apostles, Prophets and Messengers of God Almighty (Peace and Prayers be upon them all). All came to preach one word, One God. Only He Is Worthy of Worship. Nothing else deserves such a right. Nothing can be greater than God. Only God Is Good. Jesus wasn't good on his own. He was good by God's Permission at each and every moment of his life. Same goes for every attribute of everything. Nothing is ever anything except with God's Permission. The sun doesn't shine, except If He Wills.

Edit: You thought i was replying to you in my previous post, my bad. It was directed at Artful Revealer. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Peace be upon you too.
 
Joined
Apr 13, 2017
Messages
4,423
Even though Moses wasnt using the term "Israel" and probably used something closer to the second?
It seems plausible that the Kenites might've introduced the worship of Yahwe among the people of Judah and other semitic people who worshipped EL, yes.
 

SkepticCat

Veteran
Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
666
3. The devils know how offensive it is to The Almighty that His creatures should liken Him to mere creatures. The jinn are known to be able to create a symptom or discomfort imitating a disease and they are the ones that fake a healing of sorts when preachers take the name of Jesus in order to perform some sort of miracle healing by simply ceasing to affect the person, thereby leading men astray from the path that leads to The Unseen Creator.
From skimming a few of your posts it appears to me your aversion towards Christianity is mainly based on the assumption it detracts from God's majesty to incarnate. I beg to differ. If anything, it only increases His majesty and proves His boundless love for us that He would choose enter this world as a physical man despite the conditions. He came here knowing exactly what was to unfold; He chose to do it still. There would be mockery, idolatry, persecution. He would end up tortured till death on the cross.

He chose to endure all of these things for us. Almighty God willingly became a mere man, living the spiritually perfect life and let Himself suffer to the point of complete despair (Matthew 27:46). Such is the love of the Christian God. It was also necessary to save Man since nothing Man could ever do could ever rectify the breach of God's Law that had occured; divine intervention by way of perfect sacrifice was required. You are familiar with this key Christian concept, yes?

Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. (John 8:57-58)

I don't understand why you want to recognize the authority of Jesus, the Bible and the God described herein which you claim is the same you worship yet reject His divinity in the same breath. It simply makes no sense.
 

floss

Star
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
2,255
Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. (John 8:57-58)
that's not good enough, where is the verse that Jesus specifically say "I am God, worship me"?
 
Joined
Mar 20, 2017
Messages
2,065
@SkepticCat Thank you for your input.

Consider my stance please:

What would your position have been if you had never read the Bible or say, if you had been born outside of civilization?
 

Lisa

Superstar
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
20,288
that's not good enough, where is the verse that Jesus specifically say "I am God, worship me"?
“Therefore, come now, and I will send you to Pharaoh, so that you may bring My people, the sons of Israel, out of Egypt." But Moses said to God, "Who am I, that I should go to Pharaoh, and that I should bring the sons of Israel out of Egypt?" And He said, "Certainly I will be with you, and this shall be the sign to you that it is I who have sent you: when you have brought the people out of Egypt, you shall worship God at this mountain." Then Moses said to God, "Behold, I am going to the sons of Israel, and I will say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you.' Now they may say to me, 'What is His name?' What shall I say to them?" God said to Moses, " I AM WHO I AM"; and He said, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'" God, furthermore, said to Moses, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is My memorial-name to all generations.”
Exodus 3:10-15
Does this help? When Jesus says He is I am, He is saying He is God, worshipping Him is implied....
 

floss

Star
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
2,255
“Therefore, come now, and I will send you to Pharaoh, so that you may bring My people, the sons of Israel, out of Egypt." But Moses said to God, "Who am I, that I should go to Pharaoh, and that I should bring the sons of Israel out of Egypt?" And He said, "Certainly I will be with you, and this shall be the sign to you that it is I who have sent you: when you have brought the people out of Egypt, you shall worship God at this mountain." Then Moses said to God, "Behold, I am going to the sons of Israel, and I will say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you.' Now they may say to me, 'What is His name?' What shall I say to them?" God said to Moses, " I AM WHO I AM"; and He said, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'" God, furthermore, said to Moses, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is My memorial-name to all generations.”
Exodus 3:10-15
Does this help? When Jesus says He is I am, He is saying He is God, worshipping Him is implied....
I know Jesus is God, already experiences his Power. Was being islamically sarcastic :D
 

Lisa

Superstar
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
20,288
I know Jesus is God, already experiences his Power. Was being islamically sarcastic :D
Well, you had me wondering what they hey....haha! But, I thought I'd give my 2 cents anyway. :D
 
Top