The VC “Lockdown Christian Fellowship”

Tidal

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Ryrie’s Basic Theology, Electronic Media from Parsons Technology- there can be no doubt that the word is used in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 to indicate the actual removal of people from earth to heaven.

That's just Ryrie's personal interpretation (whoever he is).. :)
I once entertained a christian woman to tea and it turned out she was a Rapturist, and she said- "The Rapture means that true christians are going to disappear off to heaven, leaving everybody else looking round wondering where they've gone"
So I said "But what if those who disappear were piloting an airliner at the time, or driving a car, bus or train, wouldn't the driverless vehicles and planes crash and kill a lot of people?
"Yes"
she replied, "but that can't be helped".
I made up my mind then that the whole "rapture" idea was just a load of cultish nonsense caused by their misinterpretation of some bible verses..:D
 

Mercedes007

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That's just Ryrie's personal interpretation (whoever he is).. :)
I once entertained a christian woman to tea and it turned out she was a Rapturist, and she said- "The Rapture means that true christians are going to disappear off to heaven, leaving everybody else looking round wondering where they've gone"
So I said "But what if those who disappear were piloting an airliner at the time, or driving a car, bus or train, wouldn't the driverless vehicles and planes crash and kill a lot of people?
"Yes"
she replied, "but that can't be helped".
I made up my mind then that the whole "rapture" idea was just a load of cultish nonsense caused by their misinterpretation of some bible verses..:D
I think it’s dangerous to dismiss a doctrine (That certainly is held by the majority of believers and not some misinterpreting cultists) because of your personal feeling on the subject. There are many verses throughout the Bible that support it. This is certainly not an occultic doctrine.

But nevertheless, I think your feeling about people dying (so it must not be true?) would also translate to the entire book of Revelation, and all the prophesies relating to the tribulation that are found throughout the Bible. How many will be tortured, starved, beheaded? How many will be sent to Hell? Woe to the women with babies in that time! How many will be killed or tortured because of the antichrist or God judgements? Can you really dismiss concepts based on the fact that people will die? Does the fact that people will die mean it won’t happen? This reminds me of the same talk people have about God. God wouldnt send people to hell, God knows I’m a good person, how can God send someone to hell just because they don’t believe in Jesus....If it concerns you (rapture, tribulation, death), and it should, shouldn’t we respond in kind with the gospel?

I urge you to put personal feelings aside and research whole heartedly the entire concept of The rapture and every time the Bible speaks of it. With prayer and study ask the Holy Spirit to guide you to the truth. At least don’t dismiss something because of how you feel about some lady’s comment, or your feelings, or my comments. Research for yourself and try to argue out of the concept of the rapture (Scientific approach).
With respect.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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That's just Ryrie's personal interpretation (whoever he is).. :)
I once entertained a christian woman to tea and it turned out she was a Rapturist, and she said- "The Rapture means that true christians are going to disappear off to heaven, leaving everybody else looking round wondering where they've gone"
So I said "But what if those who disappear were piloting an airliner at the time, or driving a car, bus or train, wouldn't the driverless vehicles and planes crash and kill a lot of people?
"Yes"
she replied, "but that can't be helped".
I made up my mind then that the whole "rapture" idea was just a load of cultish nonsense caused by their misinterpretation of some bible verses..:D
At this particular moment in time, how many airliners and cars are likely to crash? I don’t have any special insight btw, God is sovereign and will do things in his own way and time.

I wonder what it must have been like for those who thought Noah was a bit of a loon?

 

Tidal

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..I urge you to put personal feelings aside and research whole heartedly the entire concept of The rapture and every time the Bible speaks of it. With prayer and study ask the Holy Spirit to guide you to the truth..

Yes mate I have, and the Truth (as I see it) is that the so-called "rapture" is just a harmless mickey-mouse belief and if people want to believe it, it's none of my business.. :D
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Yes mate I have, and the Truth (as I see it) is that the so-called "rapture" is just a harmless mickey-mouse belief and if people want to believe it, it's none of my business.. :D

201B168D-FB71-4896-A670-25B2358C29CF.gif
What is the difference between the Rapture and the Second Coming?

Question: "What is the difference between the Rapture and the Second Coming?"

Answer:
The rapture and the second coming of Christ are often confused. Sometimes it is difficult to determine whether a scripture verse is referring to the rapture or the second coming. However, in studying end-times Bible prophecy, it is very important to differentiate between the two.

The rapture is when Jesus Christ returns to remove the church (all believers in Christ) from the earth. The rapture is described in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:50-54. Believers who have died will have their bodies resurrected and, along with believers who are still living, will meet the Lord in the air. This will all occur in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye. The second coming is when Jesus returns to defeat the Antichrist, destroy evil, and establish His millennial kingdom. The second coming is described in Revelation 19:11-16.

The important differences between the rapture and second coming are as follows:

1) At the rapture, believers meet the Lord in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17). At the second coming, believers return with the Lord to the earth (Revelation 19:14).

2) The second coming occurs after the great and terrible tribulation (Revelation chapters 6–19). The rapture occurs before the tribulation (1 Thessalonians 5:9; Revelation 3:10).

3) The rapture is the removal of believers from the earth as an act of deliverance (1 Thessalonians 4:13-17, 5:9). The second coming includes the removal of unbelievers as an act of judgment (Matthew 24:40-41).

4) The rapture will be secret and instant (1 Corinthians 15:50-54). The second coming will be visible to all (Revelation 1:7; Matthew 24:29-30).

5) The second coming of Christ will not occur until after certain other end-times events take place (2 Thessalonians 2:4; Matthew 24:15-30; Revelation chapters 6–18). The rapture is imminent; it could take place at any moment (Titus 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:50-54).

Why is it important to keep the rapture and the second coming distinct?

1) If the rapture and the second coming are the same event, believers will have to go through the tribulation (1 Thessalonians 5:9; Revelation 3:10).

2) If the rapture and the second coming are the same event, the return of Christ is not imminent—there are many things which must occur before He can return (Matthew 24:4-30).

3) In describing the tribulation period, Revelation chapters 6–19 nowhere mentions the church. During the tribulation—also called “the time of trouble for Jacob” (Jeremiah 30:7)—God will again turn His primary attention to Israel (Romans 11:17-31).

The rapture and second coming are similar but separate events. Both involve Jesus returning. Both are end-times events. However, it is crucially important to recognize the differences. In summary, the rapture is the return of Christ in the clouds to remove all believers from the earth before the time of God’s wrath. The second coming is the return of Christ to the earth to bring the tribulation to an end and to defeat the Antichrist and his evil world empire.
Recommended Resource: Three Views on the Rapture by Gleason L. Archer, Jr., ed.

 

Tidal

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Guys, guys, when we die we go into "cryo sleep"-
"Don't grieve for those asleep,for they sleep in Jesus" (1 Thess 4:13/14)

Then on judgement day-
"In the twinkling of an eye the dead shall be raised imperishable and we shall be changed" (1 Cor 15:52)

See, there's no mention of being "raptured away" before then.. :p
 
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Lisa

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In the same spirit, I can read a good book that echoes the truths of the Bible without buying into every view of the author etc.
True...but how do you know when they’re wrong? And what happens when the discernment just isn’t there?

I’m sure I’ve said this before..but I spoke to a grandmother who was mormon. I said its easier to believe in mormonism when you’ve grown up with it..and she said she didn’t, she was a Baptist. She met some mormon missionaries at her door and decided to read their book so that next time she would be better able to debate them, however, what ended up happening is she believed the new book she had over the Bible and became a mormon...taught her children and grandchildren it was true. Reading other things could seriously set you back too.
 

TokiEl

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God wouldnt send people to hell, God knows I’m a good person, how can God send someone to hell just because they don’t believe in Jesus...
God don't send good people to hell.

And God don't send bad people to heaven just because they believe in Jesus.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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True...but how do you know when they’re wrong? And what happens when the discernment just isn’t there?

I’m sure I’ve said this before..but I spoke to a grandmother who was mormon. I said its easier to believe in mormonism when you’ve grown up with it..and she said she didn’t, she was a Baptist. She met some mormon missionaries at her door and decided to read their book so that next time she would be better able to debate them, however, what ended up happening is she believed the new book she had over the Bible and became a mormon...taught her children and grandchildren it was true. Reading other things could seriously set you back too.
FEAE7C4E-02CB-41A4-BE34-4857A79B151F.jpeg
 

Red Sky at Morning

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That’s great and all but it seems like a slogan and a lot of people want to be spoon fed.
My mum once told me the best bit of spiritual advice she had heard was to “dig my own well” and “plough my own furrow”. I agree.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Guys, guys, when we die we go into "cryo sleep"-
"Don't grieve for those asleep,for they sleep in Jesus" (1 Thess 4:13/14)

Then on judgement day-
"In the twinkling of an eye the dead shall be raised imperishable and we shall be changed" (1 Cor 15:52)

See, there's no mention of being "raptured away" before then.. :p
I had heard these words a thousand times till I was struck by something interesting in the context of our discussion in verse 26

John 11

25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die.
 
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Tidal

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I had heard these words a thousand times till I was struck by something interesting in the context of our discussion in verse 26
John 11
25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, heshall live. 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die.

Right.. :)

"Come on out of there Lazarus mate"
 

Red Sky at Morning

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I had the words of an old hymn going though my head this evening, but I found a new version that really spoke to me when I did a search for it. Maybe someone else needs to hear this tonight too?

 

Dalit

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This may be fake news, my dear. Example of this kind of thing here:


Please prove using another source besides Servus Christi.

Edited: I've decided to play investigator and have asked GTY to provide a current position statement on Hillsong. Have also looked up and confirmed that Matt Redman did play at Master's U chapel service shortly before that video came out.


From all my research so far, MacArthur has never validated Hillsong on his website but spoken quite the opposite, that Hillsong is false teaching and strange fire. But, as there's not a current position statement or blog, that does need to be addressed.
GTY responded to my email with this, saying this is their position statement on Hillsong:


Wasn't trying to be contentious, just genuinely curious as to how when I know this ministry sponsors the Strange Fire conference and even has a Strange Fire book, they could ally themselves with a church that is obviously charismatic and not in alignment with their doctrinal standards. I think it was a "guilty by association" thing with Matt Redman who has unfortunately allied with Hillsong. I still like Matt Redman's older music.
 

floss

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@seekinheart I just recalled a couple year or so ago you were on the fence between Christianity and Islam. Brother, my heart is extremely happy for your soul as it's now rested in Christ. Your nickname (seekinheart) definitely reflect those who love the truth (Jesus). It's good to be back in the Father's house. Hallelujah! Glory to Jesus
 
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@seekinheart I just recalled a couple year or so ago you were on the fence between Christianity and Islam. Brother, my heart is extremely happy for your soul as it's now rested in Christ. Your nickname (seekinheart) definitely reflect those who love the truth (Jesus). It's good to be back in the Father's house. Hallelujah! Glory to Jesus
honestly I was backsliding and it wasnt really a pursuit of truth with Islam I just liked the idea of it at times, but I knew the truth then, sometimes we just cant face it I guess. Was it CS Lewis who was attracted to pagan religions or something and had this temptation for them, it was abit like that for me with Islam.
 
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