The Universality Of God

manama

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They may not use the terminology, but the idea is still there in all the Abrahamic faiths really. Jews are the Chosen Ones, Christians are the only ones who have Jesus' grace so they are special and will live on in Heaven, and Muslims are the true Abrahamic religion because they are the last and claim to encapsulate all three. The Muslims are a bit set apart though because their belief system seems to allow for everyone who is good to eventually make it to Heaven, just the Muslims will be first.
we won't be first because we are special. We'll be first because the judgement will begin from the last people to the first ones. So people following Muhammad s.a.w's time will be judged first then Jesus's and finally the ones at the time of Adam .a.s

like opposite to the order they were born in this world
 

Loki

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we won't be first because we are special. We'll be first because the judgement will begin from the last people to the first ones. So people following Muhammad s.a.w's time will be judged first then Jesus's and finally the ones at the time of Adam .a.s

like opposite to the order they were born in this world
Ah, I just figured you guys would be first because you take all the extra steps of worship and prayer in Islam whereas others don't.
 

rainerann

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They may not use the terminology, but the idea is still there in all the Abrahamic faiths really. Jews are the Chosen Ones, Christians are the only ones who have Jesus' grace so they are special and will live on in Heaven, and Muslims are the true Abrahamic religion because they are the last and claim to encapsulate all three. The Muslims are a bit set apart though because their belief system seems to allow for everyone who is good to eventually make it to Heaven, just the Muslims will be first.
hmm, well this makes a little more sense. However, this would be one concept with different theological positions. I read the response to mean that this was a common thing done all over the world.

The Quran also says that the people of Scripture and polytheists will be in the fire of Hell if they don't accept Islam.

"Indeed, they who disbelieved among the People of the Scripture and the polytheists will be in the fire of Hell, abiding eternally therein. Those are the worst of creatures." (Quran 98:6).
 

manama

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Ah, I just figured you guys would be first because you take all the extra steps of worship and prayer in Islam whereas others don't.
That doesn't really give any benefit in the order of judgement because being called first is more scary. But yea the order of entering that life will be opposite to this life. So last people in this world, will be the first ones to receive judgment there.
 

manama

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hmm, well this makes a little more sense. However, this would be one concept with different theological positions. I read the response to mean that this was a common thing done all over the world.

The Quran also says that the people of Scripture and polytheists will be in the fire of Hell if they don't accept Islam.

"Indeed, they who disbelieved among the People of the Scripture and the polytheists will be in the fire of Hell, abiding eternally therein. Those are the worst of creatures." (Quran 98:6).
smh
 

Yahda

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Isaiah 53 where you always argue against what it really means. God gave a hint of the rest of the story there...
Cause it's about David/Israel

Psalms 22:6 but I am a worm and not a man SCORNED by men DESPISED by the people all those seeing me mock me

Psalms 89:38 ( David) but you yourself have cast off and REJECTED him you have become furious with your anointed one

35: I will tell no lies to David his offspring will endure forever

Sorry. Not about yashiminemy. Let me know if you need more precepts.

The truth of the matter is that God never mentioned a yahouseshua. And Israel is his SON exodus 4:22
 

floss

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we won't be first because we are special. We'll be first because the judgement will begin from the last people to the first ones. So people following Muhammad s.a.w's time will be judged first then Jesus's and finally the ones at the time of Adam .a.s

like opposite to the order they were born in this world
Think the Muslims got this idea from

Matthew 20
16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
 

Etagloc

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I'm not so sure this is correct. In fact, I cannot think of one outside of the Jew's that refer to themselves this way. People have been domineering throughout history. They have behaved in a way that demonstrated they believed they were entitled to take land from other people. However, this isn't the same thing as identifying themselves as being chosen. Can you give an example where anyone else has ever made this claim?
"Shintoism is a purely Japanese religion, the origins of which are buried in the hazy mists of ancient Japanese history. It is one of the world’s oldest religions. The Japanese people have a fierce love for their land and believe that the Japanese islands were the very first divine creation. In fact, Shintoism teaches that no other land is divine, making Japan unique in the world. Not surprisingly, Shintoism is not popular outside of Japan.

The two fundamental Shinto doctrines are that Japan is the country of the gods and her people are the descendants of gods. This concept of the divine descent of the Japanese people, as well as the divine origin of the land, has given rise to a conviction of superiority over other countries and peoples" https://www.gotquestions.org/Shintoism.html

"There is a sense in which the traditional view of ancient Chinese history is correct (and perhaps it originated ultimately in the first appearance of dynastic civilization): those on the fringes and outside this esoteric event were "barbarians" in that they did not enjoy (or suffer from) the fruit of civilization until they were brought into close contact with it by an imperial expansion of the civilization itself." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbarian#Cultural_and_racial_barbarianism

"The Aztecs believed they were the "chosen people" and that the end of the world could only be avoided by "feeding" the sun human blood and flesh." "Aztecs felt they were the "chosen people" of Huitzilopochtli" http://www.carnaval.com/dead/aztecmyth.htm http://www.crystalinks.com/azteculture.html

"Just an example, but it can be the reason why some of us are so in bondage to sin. Sin is really not good for black people. The consequences are compounded each time. As a chosen people, we’re held to a higher standard. -http://www.letspleasegod.com/2015/09/black-people-israelites-bible/

If you look, those were two (among many) sources that mentioned the Aztecs seeing themselves as chosen people. Also there have been Japanese who believe they are chosen people. Now what do the Japanese people and the Aztecs have in common? They are both famous for imperialism. Before the Spanish came to Mexico, the Aztecs were dominating and oppressing the other tribes. The Japanese are hated by many people because they are seen as imperialists. I'm not anti-Japanese and I'm not trying to justify that attitude- I'm just saying it's out there and there are historical reasons why that is the case.

The thing I want to emphasize to everybody is this: every imperialistic group of people, every people were the leaders are colonizers NEED some sort of philosophy, some sort of ideology that explains WHY they are the chosen people:

For George Bush, the ideology was (so-called) "Freedom and Democracy".
For Muslim imperialists, the Quran.
For Christian imperialists, the Bible.

There is a whole category of "chosen people" ideologies and such ideologies form part of the ideological arsenal of imperialism.
 

Etagloc

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They may not use the terminology, but the idea is still there in all the Abrahamic faiths really. Jews are the Chosen Ones, Christians are the only ones who have Jesus' grace so they are special and will live on in Heaven, and Muslims are the true Abrahamic religion because they are the last and claim to encapsulate all three. The Muslims are a bit set apart though because their belief system seems to allow for everyone who is good to eventually make it to Heaven, just the Muslims will be first.
And don't forget that according to the Quran everyone is speaking Arabic in heaven.
 

Lisa

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Cause it's about David/Israel

Psalms 22:6 but I am a worm and not a man SCORNED by men DESPISED by the people all those seeing me mock me

Psalms 89:38 ( David) but you yourself have cast off and REJECTED him you have become furious with your anointed one

35: I will tell no lies to David his offspring will endure forever

Sorry. Not about yashiminemy. Let me know if you need more precepts.

The truth of the matter is that God never mentioned a yahouseshua. And Israel is his SON exodus 4:22
No, David wasn't a man who was despised and forsaken by men and he wasn't pierced through for our iniquities, by his scourging we are healed...that isn't David at all. But it is Jesus. By His stripes we are healed!
 

Yahda

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No, David wasn't a man who was despised and forsaken by men and he wasn't pierced through for our iniquities, by his scourging we are healed...that isn't David at all. But it is Jesus. By His stripes we are healed!
But Psalms 22:6 says he was DESPISED. So who do you think I believe? I'll go with God's servant and his anointed one. Opposed to yours and what you said.
 

floss

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And don't forget that according to the Quran everyone is speaking Arabic in heaven.
That is the nature of Islam. Trying to claim things to themself.

Everyone is a Muslim
Last and Final Prophet (Even though God has already completed his work via Jesus)
 

Loki

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hmm, well this makes a little more sense. However, this would be one concept with different theological positions. I read the response to mean that this was a common thing done all over the world.

The Quran also says that the people of Scripture and polytheists will be in the fire of Hell if they don't accept Islam.

"Indeed, they who disbelieved among the People of the Scripture and the polytheists will be in the fire of Hell, abiding eternally therein. Those are the worst of creatures." (Quran 98:6).
Well Colgate has gone on to explain other instances of it across the world and outside of the Abrahamic religions. It shouldn't be surprising if every single religion had some form of this, whether lesser or greater, because the entire point of religion is to try and explain the origins of men and the world, and almost every religion comes from ancient times where it was very tribal and it was important to value your tribe over others, and it would especially help in times of war to believe that your people are chosen or special to God(s) so you abate that fear of death since you will be taken care of in the afterlife.

The Norse were famous for their battle prowess and that's no surprise because they built into their religion the idea that the only way to feast with the gods in the afterlife was to die in battle with a weapon in your hand. Such a belief was an easy way to convince endless numbers of Norse men and women to sacrifice their lives in wars and battles to expand their lands or riches.
 

Lisa

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But Psalms 22:6 says he was DESPISED. So who do you think I believe? I'll go with God's servant and his anointed one. Opposed to yours and what you said.
Ya, Jesus was despised, why do you think they voted to kill Him and not Barrabas?
 

Kung Fu

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Nope, He's the same God. When the Jews rejected the messiah, Jesus, God allowed the Gentiles (me, you, everyone) a chance at everlasting life with Him.

I have studied the Bible and I know the end of the story which they don't know yet, but the Bible tells us they will know the rest of the story, so that's Good News don't ya think?

Yep, the Jews rejected Jesus, still do, but the Bible says they will know Him in the end :)
The Israelites never worshiped a man and still don't to this day. You worship a man. Can you see the difference?
 

rainerann

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"Shintoism is a purely Japanese religion, the origins of which are buried in the hazy mists of ancient Japanese history. It is one of the world’s oldest religions. The Japanese people have a fierce love for their land and believe that the Japanese islands were the very first divine creation. In fact, Shintoism teaches that no other land is divine, making Japan unique in the world. Not surprisingly, Shintoism is not popular outside of Japan.

The two fundamental Shinto doctrines are that Japan is the country of the gods and her people are the descendants of gods. This concept of the divine descent of the Japanese people, as well as the divine origin of the land, has given rise to a conviction of superiority over other countries and peoples" https://www.gotquestions.org/Shintoism.html

"There is a sense in which the traditional view of ancient Chinese history is correct (and perhaps it originated ultimately in the first appearance of dynastic civilization): those on the fringes and outside this esoteric event were "barbarians" in that they did not enjoy (or suffer from) the fruit of civilization until they were brought into close contact with it by an imperial expansion of the civilization itself." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbarian#Cultural_and_racial_barbarianism

"The Aztecs believed they were the "chosen people" and that the end of the world could only be avoided by "feeding" the sun human blood and flesh." "Aztecs felt they were the "chosen people" of Huitzilopochtli" http://www.carnaval.com/dead/aztecmyth.htm http://www.crystalinks.com/azteculture.html

"Just an example, but it can be the reason why some of us are so in bondage to sin. Sin is really not good for black people. The consequences are compounded each time. As a chosen people, we’re held to a higher standard. -http://www.letspleasegod.com/2015/09/black-people-israelites-bible/

If you look, those were two (among many) sources that mentioned the Aztecs seeing themselves as chosen people. Also there have been Japanese who believe they are chosen people. Now what do the Japanese people and the Aztecs have in common? They are both famous for imperialism. Before the Spanish came to Mexico, the Aztecs were dominating and oppressing the other tribes. The Japanese are hated by many people because they are seen as imperialists. I'm not anti-Japanese and I'm not trying to justify that attitude- I'm just saying it's out there and there are historical reasons why that is the case.

The thing I want to emphasize to everybody is this: every imperialistic group of people, every people were the leaders are colonizers NEED some sort of philosophy, some sort of ideology that explains WHY they are the chosen people:

For George Bush, the ideology was (so-called) "Freedom and Democracy".
For Muslim imperialists, the Quran.
For Christian imperialists, the Bible.

There is a whole category of "chosen people" ideologies and such ideologies form part of the ideological arsenal of imperialism.
hmm, I don't know that I don't believe that the Japanese and Aztecs aren't chosen people to start with. Also, the Jews originally being "God's Chosen People" wasn't for their ability to conquer other nations. It was because they would bring a message to the world about the creator. They were "chosen" for this. This doesn't mean that the Japanese and Aztec's aren't chosen for something or that the sense that they are chosen isn't the result of the same creator's love for them throughout history.

Personally, I love Shintoism as well. I think Japanese culture is very beautiful and demonstrates many positives as an ancient culture. They have stood the test of time, so to speak. Therefore, while this may be an example supporting your argument, I don't think their philosophy hasn't spread because people wouldn't like to be part of it. Shintoism is central to Japanese culture and they are protective of it so that it won't be changed by outside influence. There are positive and negatives to this I guess you could say because this isolated stance would cause the world to badmouth the US if we were to do the same thing. Therefore, the concept of being chosen does not prove to be an imperialistic trait. Both cultures are actually very isolated by choice and resistant to outside influence.

Additionally, while Christianity believes that accepting Jesus as the Messiah is the prerequisite for Heaven. We don't don't believe that we are chosen people otherwise we would not try to share the message of the Gospel. The idea of being chosen is more or less the idea that only a certain number of people are allowed to participate because they have some special distinguishing feature. This is not true of Christianity. Everyone is welcome. There is no limit placed on the number of people that can be "chosen" so to speak.
 

Kung Fu

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Additionally, while Christianity believes that accepting Jesus as the Messiah is the prerequisite for Heaven. We don't don't believe that we are chosen people otherwise we would not try to share the message of the Gospel. The idea of being chosen is more or less the idea that only a certain number of people are allowed to participate because they have some special distinguishing feature. This is not true of Christianity. Everyone is welcome. There is no limit placed on the number of people that can be "chosen" so to speak.
Except for the fact that Jesus only came to the Israelites and only the Israelites.
 

Etagloc

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Well Colgate has gone on to explain other instances of it across the world and outside of the Abrahamic religions. It shouldn't be surprising if every single religion had some form of this, whether lesser or greater, because the entire point of religion is to try and explain the origins of men and the world, and almost every religion comes from ancient times where it was very tribal and it was important to value your tribe over others, and it would especially help in times of war to believe that your people are chosen or special to God(s) so you abate that fear of death since you will be taken care of in the afterlife.

The Norse were famous for their battle prowess and that's no surprise because they built into their religion the idea that the only way to feast with the gods in the afterlife was to die in battle with a weapon in your hand. Such a belief was an easy way to convince endless numbers of Norse men and women to sacrifice their lives in wars and battles to expand their lands or riches.
hmm, I don't know that I don't believe that the Japanese and Aztecs aren't chosen people to start with. Also, the Jews originally being "God's Chosen People" wasn't for their ability to conquer other nations. It was because they would bring a message to the world about the creator. They were "chosen" for this. This doesn't mean that the Japanese and Aztec's aren't chosen for something or that the sense that they are chosen isn't the result of the same creator's love for them throughout history.

Personally, I love Shintoism as well. I think Japanese culture is very beautiful and demonstrates many positives as an ancient culture. They have stood the test of time, so to speak. Therefore, while this may be an example supporting your argument, I don't think their philosophy hasn't spread because people wouldn't like to be part of it. Shintoism is central to Japanese culture and they are protective of it so that it won't be changed by outside influence. There are positive and negatives to this I guess you could say because this isolated stance would cause the world to badmouth the US if we were to do the same thing. Therefore, the concept of being chosen does not prove to be an imperialistic trait. Both cultures are actually very isolated by choice and resistant to outside influence.

Additionally, while Christianity believes that accepting Jesus as the Messiah is the prerequisite for Heaven. We don't don't believe that we are chosen people otherwise we would not try to share the message of the Gospel. The idea of being chosen is more or less the idea that only a certain number of people are allowed to participate because they have some special distinguishing feature. This is not true of Christianity. Everyone is welcome. There is no limit placed on the number of people that can be "chosen" so to speak.
This is an excellent point. I am descended from the Aztecs (or at least related to them) and I love the Aztec empire- in spite of its flaws (which, however, I think were inflated by Spanish propaganda) and privately I do think of Mexicans as being a "chosen people" but I don't usually say it because I don't want to be misunderstood. Whatever your tribe, background, etc. all people are God's chosen people as God loves all His children and we are precious to Him. Not only are we all equal but God loves each and every and one of us and I believe no matter how much we sin that we will never be outside God's love. This is why I criticize a certain reading of the Old Testament. If we look into our souls, we will all find that we are of the "chosen people". There is no "chosen people" that is "more chosen" than the others. All the tribes, ethnic groups, whatever are "chosen people".

It is when one tribe claims to be exclusively "the chosen people"- this is what I find insane.

If the OT had been written by the Aztecs, it would have described the Aztecs as God's people. If it had been written by the Norse, it probably would have described the Norse as God's people. The Jews said they were God's people. In all cases, this is correct.

This is why I say it honestly is sort of arbitrary which set of scripture you follow (assuming, of course, that you're not following nonsense). But I won't bow down to other tribes of people and accept any theory that they are more important to God than I am simply because they are of this group or that group. I think this is sanity. I don't think anyone should bow to anyone. The Kingdom of God is within yourself! Don't worship other people.

These are my thoughts.
 

DisenfranchisedDespot

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hmm, I don't know that I don't believe that the Japanese and Aztecs aren't chosen people to start with. Also, the Jews originally being "God's Chosen People" wasn't for their ability to conquer other nations. It was because they would bring a message to the world about the creator. They were "chosen" for this. This doesn't mean that the Japanese and Aztec's aren't chosen for something or that the sense that they are chosen isn't the result of the same creator's love for them throughout history.

Personally, I love Shintoism as well. I think Japanese culture is very beautiful and demonstrates many positives as an ancient culture. They have stood the test of time, so to speak. Therefore, while this may be an example supporting your argument, I don't think their philosophy hasn't spread because people wouldn't like to be part of it. Shintoism is central to Japanese culture and they are protective of it so that it won't be changed by outside influence. There are positive and negatives to this I guess you could say because this isolated stance would cause the world to badmouth the US if we were to do the same thing. Therefore, the concept of being chosen does not prove to be an imperialistic trait. Both cultures are actually very isolated by choice and resistant to outside influence.

Additionally, while Christianity believes that accepting Jesus as the Messiah is the prerequisite for Heaven. We don't don't believe that we are chosen people otherwise we would not try to share the message of the Gospel. The idea of being chosen is more or less the idea that only a certain number of people are allowed to participate because they have some special distinguishing feature. This is not true of Christianity. Everyone is welcome. There is no limit placed on the number of people that can be "chosen" so to speak.
Well said and if one looks at Japanese culture today they boast low crime rates, high in academia, and seem to be overall a very moral people. I think the isolationism and isolationist mind state benefited them greatly.
 
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