The Three Raptures / Three Harvests

Lisa

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That’s funny, because the King James is the preferred Bible for those who actually read the Bible.
For some..not for me..I don’t want to read an archaic language.

You think Adam and Eve aren’t in Heaven?
Well, I don’t think anyone is right now...but besides that, no I don’t think that the way their part in Genesis ended that they will be in heaven.
 






Red Sky at Morning

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Hebrews‬ ‭6:4-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
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I don’t see what the difference is here..it’s saying the same thing as the NASB..you guys are being ridiculous. And this version..doesn’t have the pope to thank for this verse? :rolleyes:
I think this is shifting the discussion away somewhat, but we might as well address it.

First, the words here seem very similar to the KJV.

Second, if you consider the implications of your interpretations of this passage, it leads to doctrines which seem at odds to other clearly stated passages.

The most obvious thing is that your reading of it appears to be “one strike and you’re out (with no hope of return)”.

I may have misunderstood you here on previous occasions but can you resolve the unrepentant Corinthian sleeping with his stepmother and getting thrown out of the Church by Paul, yet in the second letter Paul tells the church to restore him?

Peter betraying Jesus and cursing?

Peter and the other disciples returning to the fishing trade?

I could go on to Philemon and Onissimus, or even countless modern testimonies of people who made an early choice to follow Jesus then fell away for many years, only to be restored?

What about the parable of the lost sheep and the lost coin? Both the sheep and coin belonged to the owner, who went looking for them.

Finally, I think Andy Woods makes a very clear alternative reading of the Hebrews passage in question. I offer it for wider consideration...

 






floss

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You think Adam and Eve aren’t in Heaven?
That's how I felt too when Lisa disclosed what she believed about Adam & Eve's salvation. Like wuttt? I was shocked for a few mins. This is worth a church split for me personally.
 






Lisa

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I think this is shifting the discussion away somewhat, but we might as well address it.

First, the words here seem very similar to the KJV.

Second, if you consider the implications of your interpretations of this passage, it leads to doctrines which seem at odds to other clearly stated passages.

The most obvious thing is that your reading of it appears to be “one strike and you’re out (with no hope of return)”.

I may have misunderstood you here on previous occasions but can you resolve the unrepentant Corinthian sleeping with his stepmother and getting thrown out of the Church by Paul, yet in the second letter Paul tells the church to restore him?

Peter betraying Jesus and cursing?

Peter and the other disciples returning to the fishing trade?

I could go on to Philemon and Onissimus, or even countless modern testimonies of people who made an early choice to follow Jesus then fell away for many years, only to be restored?

What about the parable of the lost sheep and the lost coin? Both the sheep and coin belonged to the owner, who went looking for them.

Finally, I think Andy Woods makes a very clear alternative reading of the Hebrews passage in question. I offer it for wider consideration...

They don’t seem similar..they are similar. All this crap talk about how the modern language gets it wrong..and the one verse I point to for losing your salvation and not getting it back and look its saying the similar thing. You can fall away and you can’t come back for it. And you’re going to quickly dismiss it.


I never thought it was a one strike and your out deal.. however, I think the thing to know is if you fall away, then you’re out so maybe that’s why all the warnings through scripture..do you guys event take that into consideration?

Obviously..those people aren’t fallen away from the faith. Did you not even read my post on falling away and how it happens?
3.) How does the falling away happen?

2 Timothy 4:3-4
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.

‭‭Galatians 5:2-9
Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love. You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth? This persuasion did not come from Him who calls you. A little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough.

Colossians 2:8‬ ‭
See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.
 






Lisa

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That's how I felt too when Lisa disclosed what she believed about Adam & Eve's salvation. Like wuttt? I was shocked for a few mins. This is worth a church split for me personally.
Why is it so important to you that they are saved? I must be missing something that you’re so upset?
 






Red Sky at Morning

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They don’t seem similar..they are similar. All this crap talk about how the modern language gets it wrong..
Salvation is not the only doctrine tampered with by the critical texts Lisa. I invite you to dig deeper to discover the implications.

We have talked about eternal security before Lisa, so I’m posting this up for anyone else who might be interested (part three of a three part series). This point is less about versions and more about interpretations now.

 






Lisa

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Salvation is not the only doctrine tampered with by the critical texts Lisa. I invite you to dig deeper to discover the implications.

We have talked about eternal security before Lisa, so I’m posting this up for anyone else who might be interested (part three of a three part series)...

No! Don’t skip over that verse! Its the same verse just worded a little differently..but its the same meaning.
You keep saying that my Bible has revisions..well it doesn’t on that verse...does it? And..I‘m not agreeing to the revision part..but adding it because you think it does.
 






Red Sky at Morning

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No! Don’t skip over that verse! Its the same verse just worded a little differently..but its the same meaning.
You keep saying that my Bible has revisions..well it doesn’t on that verse...does it? And..I‘m not agreeing to the revision part..but adding it because you think it does.
Those verses you highlight are addressed directly in both Andy Wood’s presentation and Roger Price’s. Both presentations provide context and proper interpretations. They are out there if you ever care to review them anyway.
 






Lisa

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Reposting because I think its important to see some verses together.

Isaiah‬ ‭26:19-21‬ ‭
Your dead will live; Their corpses will rise. You who lie in the dust, awake and shout for joy, For your dew is as the dew of the dawn, And the earth will give birth to the departed spirits. Come, my people, enter into your rooms And close your doors behind you; Hide for a little while Until indignation runs its course. For behold, the LORD is about to come out from His place To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity; And the earth will reveal her bloodshed And will no longer cover her slain.




Daniel‬ ‭12:1-2‬ ‭
Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued. Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.



Matthew‬ ‭24:21-22‬ ‭
For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.
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1 Corinthians 15:51-53
Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.




1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.
 






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