The Three Raptures / Three Harvests

Lisa

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A pattern for future events perhaps...

Leviticus 23

22And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not make clean riddance of the corners of thy field when thou reapest, neither shalt thou gather any gleaning of thy harvest: thou shalt leave them unto the poor, and to the stranger: I am the LORD your God.

I believe that if there is a pre-trib Rapture, there will be some who will be aware of what is to come who will believe after the event. These are perhaps patterned in the harvest left at the edge of the field have been gathered.

Most importantly, I’m not making this musing a contentious issue to divide or fall out over, its just how I see it, presented as well as I can on a phone with one finger typing!
Why would there need to be a pre-trib rapture...when there are Christians on earth that know what is coming and can tell people whats about to happen or even in the midst of the tribulation can still tell people what’s happening? Isn’t that the reason for Christians anyway..we preach the gospel in season and out?
 






Lisa

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Always an interesting topic, Red, and there are more examples of believers being caught up to heaven.

Enoch, the two witnesses in Revelation, even Jesus Christ, were/are all taken by God to be with him. There’s no reason for anyone to think there’s only one time this happens.
Isn’t there only one time that we are told that all the dead in Christ will rise and meet Him in the air though? With those still alive following after?

When John came to heaven in Revelation he is the only one there and then after awhile he notices the a great throng of people there and asks who they are and then is told who they are? I think that is a clue to finding out what is true and what isn’t.
 






Red Sky at Morning

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Why would there need to be a pre-trib rapture...when there are Christians on earth that know what is coming and can tell people whats about to happen or even in the midst of the tribulation can still tell people what’s happening?
For the sake of those who presently mock and scoff, part of me hopes so, but it just doesn’t add up from my reading of things @Lisa

Perhaps this is why the 144,000 go out, the Two Witnesses appear on the scene and even angels are sent to preach the Gospel of the Kingdom?
 






Lisa

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For the sake of those who presently mock and scoff, part of me hopes so, but it just doesn’t add up from my reading of things @Lisa

Perhaps this is why the 144,000 go out, the Two Witnesses appear on the scene and even angels are sent to preach the Gospel of the Kingdom?
Why do you think us Christians are still on the earth right now anyway?
 






Red Sky at Morning

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Why do you think us Christians are still on the earth right now anyway?
Because we live in the age of grace and are charged with the Great Commission?

For the bigger picture... (IMO)

 






Lisa

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Because we live in the age of grace and are charged with the Great Commission?

For the bigger picture... (IMO)

Right..but that isn’t going to go away once the trib starts..if it did I don’t think there would be martyrs.
 






Red Sky at Morning

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Right..but that isn’t going to go away once the trib starts..if it did I don’t think there would be martyrs.
Have you noticed that the word “Church” is dropped entirely after Revelation 3 and the term “the saints” is used instead? Have you ever wondered why?
 






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Lisa

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Have you noticed that the word “Church” is dropped entirely after Revelation 4 and the term “the saints” is used instead? Have you ever wondered why?
I haven’t actually noticed that and you think that means that the church is gone? Aren’t the saints the church anyway? Does that mean the church...saints meeting together is gone?
 






Red Sky at Morning

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I haven’t actually noticed that and you think that means that the church is gone? Aren’t the saints the church anyway? Does that mean the church...saints meeting together is gone?
I wouldn’t build a doctrine on the church/saints distinction but I have always felt it was a hint, especially in the context of the opening verses of Revelation 4...

“After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.”

I wouldn’t even claim this as a smoking gun. That having been said, for me, I find the balance of scripture supports a pre-trib interpretation, but there are lots of Christians who I have friendships with who take different views including mid-trib, pre-wrath and even post millennials. If they are with me on the creed from 1 Corinthians 15, they are my brothers and sisters.
 






Lisa

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I wouldn’t build a doctrine on the church/saints distinction but I have always felt it was a hint, especially in the context of the opening verses of Revelation 4...

“After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.”

I wouldn’t even claim this as a smoking gun. That having been said, for me, I find the balance of scripture supports a pre-trib interpretation, but there are lots of Christians who I have friendships with who take different views including mid-trib, pre-wrath and even post millennials. If they are with me on the creed from 1 Corinthians 15, they are my brothers and sisters.
What does that verse have to do with anything besides John going up to be shown things in heaven?

How does this verse get changed into 3 raptures or does it?
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:51-52‬ ‭
Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
 






Red Sky at Morning

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What does that verse have to do with anything besides John going up to be shown things in heaven?

How does this verse get changed into 3 raptures or does it?
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:51-52‬ ‭
Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
Which group of people was Paul referring to here? The Church, perhaps?? ...
 






Red Sky at Morning

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The dead and the current alive Christians...you did notice alit was at the last trumpet..not in the beginning?
OK.. have you noticed in your reading that one gathering (the pre-wrath type) occurs in the middle of turmoil and judgement...

Revelation 14​
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.​
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.​
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.​
16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped. [surely a distinct “gathering” event in troubled times]
17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.​
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.​

....while the passages often cited by pre-trib people refer to a time of peace and safety?

1 Thessalonians 5​
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.​
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.​

How would you account for this apparent contradiction, on the one hand, in the midst of tribulation, on the other, men saying everything is fine?
 






Lisa

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OK.. have you noticed in your reading that one gathering (the pre-wrath type) occurs in the middle of turmoil and judgement...

Revelation 14​
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.​
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.​
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.​
16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped. [surely a distinct “gathering” event in troubled times]
17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.​
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.​

....while the passages often cited by pre-trib people refer to a time of peace and safety?

1 Thessalonians 5​
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.​
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.​

How would you account for this apparent contradiction, on the one hand, in the midst of tribulation, on the other, men saying everything is fine?
Let’s look then at 2 Thessalonians..when is the antichrist revealed? Does he get revealed in the beginning? No, he’s not revealed until the mid point..but that doesn’t necessarily mean we will be raptured that day or even at the mid point.

‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭2:1-4‬ ‭
Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.​

You do know that Revelation isn’t in chronological order?
 






Thunderian

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Isn’t there only one time that we are told that all the dead in Christ will rise and meet Him in the air though? With those still alive following after?
That’s the catching away of the church — what everyone generally calls The Rapture. That’s not the only catching away of believers in the Bible, though.

When John came to heaven in Revelation he is the only one there and then after awhile he notices the a great throng of people there and asks who they are and then is told who they are? I think that is a clue to finding out what is true and what isn’t.
How so?
 






Lisa

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That’s the catching away of the church — what everyone generally calls The Rapture. That’s not the only catching away of believers in the Bible, though.
You think there are multiple raptures then. Why would there be multiple ones?

Well, why would heaven be empty when John gets there if there are people in heaven or multiple raptures. Then after he’s been there awhile people are in heaven..and the only reason he’s there is to be shown about the times of the end.
 






Thunderian

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You think there are multiple raptures then. Why would there be multiple ones?
Why wouldn’t there be? Is there some reason why you think God can’t catch people or persons up to himself more than one time?

Well, why would heaven be empty when John gets there if there are people in heaven or multiple raptures. Then after he’s been there awhile people are in heaven..and the only reason he’s there is to be shown about the times of the end.
Heaven isn’t empty when John gets there. The 24 elders are seated around the throne.
 






floss

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Why wouldn’t there be? Is there some reason why you think God can’t catch people or persons up to himself more than one time?



Heaven isn’t empty when John gets there. The 24 elders are seated around the throne.
Off topic: who do believe are these 24 elders? Thanks bro
 






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