The Shroud of Turin... an Itemised Reciept?

Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
13,932
BDC4F8B0-ED59-4EFF-9A51-1ED305E0A624.jpeg
^Artists impression based on the face on the Shroud.

I watched a very interesting forensic analysis of the Shroud yesterday and the interviewee stated that he had heard a number of words describing the Shroud of Turin, such as “artefact” and “relic”, but if it is genuine [and research is piling up suggesting that it is], the best description would be that it is an “itemised receipt


Somene I heard recently said that God doesn’t forgive sin - he judges it. Our sin was judged by God in Jesus. The marks and wounds on His body represent the judgement of God placed on Him for our sakes. The shroud is a record in cloth of the transaction that bought us eternal life if we will believe.

Isaiah 53

4Surely He has borne our griefs
And carried our sorrows;
Yet we esteemed Him stricken,
Smitten by God, and afflicted.
5But He was wounded for our transgressions,
He was bruised for our iniquities;
The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,
And by His stripes we are healed.
6All we like sheep have gone astray;
We have turned, every one, to his own way;
And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.


C84E5BD8-81AC-4C42-9123-90439AA5EAA5.jpeg

^ 3D software rendering of the image imprinted on the Shroud. This information is not encoded by paint or photography.

5BB34BA3-B34D-4FDF-BF3D-BB75CBCFA1D2.jpeg
^Image from the back showing the marks of scourging
 
Last edited:

Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
13,932
18E0491C-202B-42F3-B024-C58FF7A80CF6.jpeg

The Greek word “Tetelestai” means “Paid in full” and was written on an invoice in receipt of payment of a bill.

It’s been years (in fact 38 years yesterday) since I first understood this, but it’s as fresh today to me as it was back then...

 
Last edited:

Stucky

Star
Joined
May 17, 2020
Messages
3,451
If you believe Isaiah 50:6 is speaking of Jesus then no, the shroud is not him.
 

Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
13,932
Isaiah 50:6 I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting.

Isaiah 50:6 — "and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair" - Comments- There is no specific verse in the New Testament that describes Jesus crucifixion that involved His beard being plucked out. However, the Shroud of Turin, which is believed to be the actual burial cloth of the Lord Jesus Christ, reveals a man who has been crucified. The image of the bearded face in this cloth shows that some of the beard has been pulled off. This was confirmed after years of scientific research that has taken place on the Shroud of Turin. 68]

68] Grant R. Jeffery, "The Mysterious Shroud of Turin,"
 

recure

Established
Joined
Oct 16, 2020
Messages
380
The Shroud of Turin is the Image of Edessa, also called the "image not made by hands" (Acheiropoieta in Greek). It was rediscovered in the 6th century and was taken to Constantinople in the 10th century, and then to Western Europe following the Fourth Crusade. Geoffroi de Charny and his wife Jeanne de Vergy are the first reliably recorded owners of the Shroud of Turin.*

Though usually showing just the face of Christ, ancient sources indicate that the Image of Edessa depicted the whole body of Jesus.
Author Ian Wilson has argued that the object venerated as the Mandylion from the 6th to the 13th centuries was in fact the Shroud of Turin, folded in four, and enclosed in an oblong frame so that only the face was visible. Wilson cites documents in the Vatican Library and the University of Leiden, Netherlands, which seem to suggest the presence of another image at Edessa. A 10th-century codex, Codex Vossianus Latinus Q 69 found by Gino Zaninotto in the Vatican Library contains an 8th-century account saying that an imprint of Christ's whole body was left on a canvas kept in a church in Edessa: it quotes a man called Smera in Constantinople: "King Abgar received a cloth on which one can see not only a face but the whole body".
Other relics of this type exist because when a piece of fabric or other material was pressed upon the Shroud, the Image would be imprinted onto it. For example, the Ancha icon is "traditionally considered to be the Keramidion, a "holy tile" imprinted with the face of Jesus Christ miraculously transferred by contact with the Image of Edessa".


*

Drawing of a pilgrim badge found in the Seine river in 1855. The badge bears a representation of the Shroud of Lirey, the arms of Charny and those of Vergy.

Isaiah 50:6 I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting.
The part that is translated as "to them that plucked off the hair" is not the most accurate: the Masoretic manuscript has the word למרטים (lmrtym), whereas the Isaiah (Dead Sea) Scroll has למטלים (lmtlym), translated here as "to those beating with iron". In any case, this verse is the only place in which these plural nouns appear so the meaning is inferred from the root. The word מרט (mâraţ) in Strong's dictionary primarily means to "polish" or "sharpen" with the implication being to "make bald" or "shave". The Latin Vulgate uses the word "vellentibus" (again, the only occurrence) which in the Douay-Rheims is translated as "to them that plucked them".

Quite frankly, these translations don't make a lot of sense. The Greek Septuagint, on the other hand, has the word ραπισματα (rapismata), the plural form of "slap", and the verse is translated into English thus: "I gave my back to scourges, and my cheeks to blows; and I turned not away my face from the shame of spitting." (Brenton) Furthermore, the word "rapismata" appears once in the New Testament in John 19:3: "They came up to him, saying, “Hail, King of the Jews!” and struck him with their hands." (ESV) It is the word incorrectly translated as "hands" in the KJV recension, while other versions translate it along the lines of "slapped him on the face." The most accurate translations of this verse are perhaps the World English Bible and Young's Literal Translation which read "they kept slapping him" and "they were giving him slaps", respectively. Nonetheless, the Greek text clearly establishes that John 19:3 is the fulfillment of the prophecy in Isaiah 50:6.
 

Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
13,932
A Reconstruction of the Shroud’s Trail Before 1356:

Early First Century - Jerusalem was destroyed by the Roman Empire. Legend and folklore speak of a mysterious cloth with healing power, bearing an image of Jesus that arrived in Edessa (now Urfa, Turkey) circa First Century AD. The Apostle Jude Thaddeus, one of the original Apostles of Jesus Christ, is associated with bringing the cloth from Jerusalem to Edessa.

Early Second Century - Christian persecutions in the Second century were supposedly the reason why the cloth was hidden inside the fortified wall surrounding the city of Edessa.

525 A.D. - After a severe flood destroyed most of Edessa, the cloth was rediscovered when the walls —where the cloth had been hidden for over 400 years —were being rebuilt. The cloth became known as "The Image of Edessa" and later was called “The True Likeness of Christ not made by human hands.” All Orthodox icons of Jesus and Byzantine coins dramatically change to conform to the True Likeness featuring long hair, full beard, large eyes, and flattened nose—all stylistically similar to the Shroud image.

Byzantine era coin dating from AD 692 shows Jesus on a cross bearing a remarkable resemblance to Shroud face


Byzantine era coin dating from AD 692 shows Jesus on a cross bearing a remarkable resemblance to Shroud face.

944 A.D. - The Byzantine Imperial Army invaded Edessa for the express reason of retrieving the cloth from the city which had fallen to Islam. It was taken to Constantinople (now Istanbul) and presented to the Emperor.

1204 A.D.- Constantinople was invaded by the Fourth Crusade, and the revered cloth disappeared. Some historians believe, and 2009 Vatican research supports long-time rumors that the Shroud was held in secret possession by the Knights Templar before 1356 when the cloth was displayed in France.

Note: There is a significant piece of physical evidence that a burial cloth with an image resembling the man depicted on the Shroud was in Constantinople prior to 1204 A.D. (Before supposedly being stolen by the French during the Fourth Crusade.) This “proof” is known as the Pray Codex or Hungarian Pray Manuscript, a collection of medieval manuscripts with imagesdated to the late 12th to early 13th centuries.

The Codex resides today in the National Széchényi Library of Budapest.

Documented History Begins
1356 A.D. - Geoffrey DeCharney first exhibited the Shroud in Lirey, France. Evidence indicates that members of DeChaney’s ancestral family were also leaders within the Knights Templar organization. For a detailed history of the Shroud by century, visit the full history page on Shroud.com.

Highlights of the Shroud’s Documented History That Today Impacts the Shroud of Turin:

December 4, 1532:
The Shroud is folded in 48 layers inside a silver reliquary in Sainte Chapelle, Chambéry, France. A fire breaks out, and drops of molten silver burn through the cloth’s outer folded edges. Miraculously the entire cloth was not destroyed, but the burning silver drops left those distinctive linear markings that line both sides of the Shroud image that we see today. Here are first-hand accounts of the fire from a report of the Chambery nuns dated 1534.

folded shroud of turin photo


The folding of the Shroud in its casket -- This model shows the results of the fire of Dec. 4, 1532 Credit: Professor Jerome Lejeune

black and white photo of burned shroud of turin


The burns left from the 1532 fire as seen on a vertical contrasted black and white image. Shroud Photographs ©1978 Barrie M. Schwortz Collection, STERA, Inc.

April 16, 1534: Chambéry's nuns repair the Shroud’s fire damage. The nuns sew the Shroud to a backing cloth and sew patches over the most unsightly damaged areas. With repairs completed in May 1534, the Shroud is returned to the Savoys' castle in Chambéry, France, owners of the Shroud.

Note: The royal Savoy family owned the Shroud from 1450 to 1982 until the former King of Italy, Humberto II passed away and willed the Shroud to the current living Pope.

September 14, 1578: The Shroud arrives in Turin, heralded by a gun salute from the local artillery. The cloth has remained since that time and why it is called the Shroud of Turin.

Second World War 1939 – 1946: On April 8, 2010, the day before the Shroud was going on rare public display, it was revealed and widely reported that in 1939, the Shroud was secretly moved from Turin to Montevergine Abbey in southern Italy. Reportedly, the Shroud needed to be hidden from Hitler. It remained there until 1946 when the Shroud was quietly returned to Turin. Documents found at the Abbey confirmed that the Shroud was “hidden under the altar of a small chapel” with only a select number of authorities knowing that the Shroud had even been moved from Turin.

April 11-12 1997: A destructive fire breaks out in Turin's Guarini Chapel, quickly threatening the Shroud housed in a bulletproof display case. Fireman Mario Trematore uses a sledgehammer to break open the case and rescue the Shroud. Later, arson is determined to be the cause, but the Shroud is found to be unaffected by the fire.

April 19 - June 24, 2015: The Shroud’s last public display. A history of the most recent Shroud public exhibitions, starting in 1898, is found here.

2025: Next Shroud public exhibition? Shroud exhibition dates are set by the Pope. There is speculation that the next one will be in 2025. Watch this "official" Holy Shroud site for confirmation and tickets. (Google will translate this Italian site into English.)

 

Stucky

Star
Joined
May 17, 2020
Messages
3,451
Isaiah 50:6 — "and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair" - Comments- There is no specific verse in the New Testament that describes Jesus crucifixion that involved His beard being plucked out. However, the Shroud of Turin, which is believed to be the actual burial cloth of the Lord Jesus Christ, reveals a man who has been crucified. The image of the bearded face in this cloth shows that some of the beard has been pulled off. This was confirmed after years of scientific research that has taken place on the Shroud of Turin. 68]

68] Grant R. Jeffery, "The Mysterious Shroud of Turin,"

Interesting.

Let me play devil's advocate once more. If we believe the account of the empty tomb in John Ch 20 Vs 6 & 7 then the shroud is not Jesus.

6 Then Simon Peter came along behind him and went straight into the tomb. He saw the strips of linen lying there, 7 as well as the cloth that had been wrapped around Jesus’ head. The cloth was still lying in its place, separate from the linen.
 

recure

Established
Joined
Oct 16, 2020
Messages
380
If we believe the account of the empty tomb in John Ch 20 Vs 6 & 7 then the shroud is not Jesus.

6 Then Simon Peter came along behind him and went straight into the tomb. He saw the strips of linen lying there, 7 as well as the cloth that had been wrapped around Jesus’ head. The cloth was still lying in its place, separate from the linen.
The context is that Mary Magdalene found the empty tomb and told Peter and John, saying: "They have taken away the Lord out of the tomb, and we don’t know where they have laid him!" Then when Peter investigated, he found that "the cloth was still lying in its place, separate from the linen", meaning the burial clothes were intentionally left like that. It is unlikely that a thief would strip the body of valuable linens, and even less likely that they would carefully place them back in that position. That is why verse 8 says: "So then the other disciple who came first to the tomb also entered in, and he saw and believed." Meaning he saw the clothes as they were and believed in the Resurrection, not that the body was stolen. So the account is basically refuting the "stolen body hypothesis", it is not suggesting that the napkin wrapped Jesus' head separately from the rest of the linen.
 

Stucky

Star
Joined
May 17, 2020
Messages
3,451
The context is that Mary Magdalene found the empty tomb and told Peter and John, saying: "They have taken away the Lord out of the tomb, and we don’t know where they have laid him!" Then when Peter investigated, he found that "the cloth was still lying in its place, separate from the linen", meaning the burial clothes were intentionally left like that. It is unlikely that a thief would strip the body of valuable linens, and even less likely that they would carefully place them back in that position. That is why verse 8 says: "So then the other disciple who came first to the tomb also entered in, and he saw and believed." Meaning he saw the clothes as they were and believed in the Resurrection, not that the body was stolen. So the account is basically refuting the "stolen body hypothesis", it is not suggesting that the napkin wrapped Jesus' head separately from the rest of the linen.
Certain things have become much clearer. Thanks
 

Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
13,932
About 4 minutes in, a review of the specific, detailed forensic evidence for the validity of the shroud.

Other bodies have been wrapped in shrouds through history, but I do not believe any have left a negative impression on the cloth indicating a unique event from a person who had been scourged and crucified.

Jesus died for you. What you do with that reality is up to you.

 

Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
13,932
P.s.

PATTERNS OF EVIDENCE FOR JESUS’ SHROUD OF TURIN
Dr. Fred Baltz | April 15, 2022 | Evidence

Image of a face in the Shroud of Turin

Summary: The preponderance of evidence in favor of the authenticity of the Shroud of Turin becomes part of a still larger pattern of evidence that speaks to the truth of the entire Bible.

When it was evening, there came a rich man from Arimathea, named Joseph, who also was a disciple of Jesus. He went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. Then Pilate ordered it to be given to him. And Joseph took the body and wrapped it in a clean linen shroud and laid it in his own new tomb, which he had cut in the rock. And he rolled a great stone to the entrance of the tomb and went away. –Matthew 27:57-60

https://patternsofevidence.com/2022/04/15/evidence-for-jesus-shroud-of-turin/
 

Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
13,932
Last edited:

Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
13,932
Another good post on the topic from T.W. Tramm’s Facebook page:


IN THE GOSPEL of John, the writer is inspired to share details about the burial cloths of Jesus:

“Now the first day of the week Mary Magdalene went to the tomb early, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb. Then she ran and came to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and said to them, ‘They have taken away the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid Him.’ Peter therefore went out, and the other disciple, and were going to the tomb. So they both ran together, and the other disciple outran Peter and came to the tomb first. And he, stooping down and looking in, saw the linen cloths lying there; yet he did not go in. Then Simon Peter came, following him, and went into the tomb; and he saw the linen cloths lying there, and the handkerchief that had been around His head, not lying with the linen cloths, but folded together in a place by itself. Then the other disciple, who came to the tomb first, went in also; and he saw and believed” (John 20:1–8).

With the biblical account in view, it is fascinating to consider a handful of facts around the most studied artifact in human history—a centuries-old linen shroud that bears a detailed and anatomically precise image of a man who has been crucified:

• The material and size of the shroud correspond to ancient Jewish practice. According to Jewish Law, a body must be wrapped in linen cloth that had not been mixed with wool. The shroud is made of linen, and though there are traces of cotton in it, there is no wool. The shroud also corresponds with the measuring unit used by first-century Jews, the cubit: it is exactly two cubits wide and eight cubits long.

• The image on the shroud has been described as a “perfect photographic negative,” meaning that when it is photographed, the negative shows a positive image. This is baffling because even skeptics acknowledge that the relic existed centuries before photography was invented.

• A photograph of the shroud produces a three-dimensional image when placed under a NASA image-analyzing computer, which means that distance-imaging information was somehow encoded when the image was formed. The photograph of the shroud is the only known two-dimensional image on earth that displays this amazing property.

• A recent study of high resolution images of the shroud has revealed a phenomenon similar to action-photography in which superimposed views of one of the hands, a foot, and certain inanimate objects fixed to the body indicate that there was movement during the instant in which the image was formed.

• Forensic examination shows that the bloodstains on the shroud were deposited before the image was made. This is the opposite of what one would expect if the image was a painting or man-made forgery.

• Blood stains on the shroud are authentic human male blood of the type AB. Type AB blood is rare in Europe and most of the world, occurring in about 3.2% of the population. However, around 18% of Jews from the North are type AB.

• Blood stains on the shroud match what is known about Roman crucifixion. In Christian art, particularly in the Middle Ages, Jesus is depicted as having nails going through the palms of His hands and the fronts of His feet. However, ancient skeletons of crucifixion victims show that the nails actually went through the wrists and the heels. The image on the shroud shows the nails going through the wrists and the heels, corresponding to the Roman practice.

• Dust on the shroud shows traces of dirt and limestone matching that found in tombs in Jerusalem.

• Traces of pollen on the shroud match flora specific to Jerusalem during the spring.

• Human DNA on the shroud traces to people groups from the Middle East, specifically those who dwell in the region stretching from Israel to Turkey. Middle Eastern DNA is not what one would expect to find on a medieval forgery created in Europe. However, it is exactly what one would expect to find on Jesus’ burial cloth, which is purported to have initially made its way to Turkey from Israel.

• The shroud corresponds to the description of multiple “cloths” in the Gospel of John (John 20:6–8). Firstly, there is visual evidence that smaller strips of cloth were used to secure the shroud around the body. Secondly, there is a smaller companion cloth, or handkerchief, known as the Sudarium of Oviedo, which has pre-mortem and post-mortem blood stains matching precisely the type, shape, and location of those present on the face-area of the shroud. The Sudarium facecloth—a perfect forensic match to the shroud—has a traceable history going back to at least 570 AD.

In view of the facts, I believe that the shroud most likely bears the supernaturally imprinted image of the One who . . .

Was born in a stable.

Healed the sick.

Fed the hungry.

Raised the dead.

Walked on water.

Calmed the storm.

Forgave sinners.

Cast out demons.

Died on a cross.

Rose from the dead.

Ascended to heaven.

Jesus is alive, and He is coming back soon. When He appears, we will become like Him (1 John 3:2). The same incomprehensible burst of light and energy that emanated from His beaten and bloodied corpse to form the image on the burial cloth will emanate from those who have received Him as Lord. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, believers will be gloriously transformed, and those who have died will be raised (1 Cor. 15:52).

If you do not already know Jesus, ask Him to be your Lord and Savior. Believe that He is the Son of God who died for your sins and was raised from the dead, and you too will be gloriously transformed (Rom. 10:13).

Do it today.

Time is running out!

. . .

NOTES:

1. Shroud website: http://www.shroud.com/

2. Three-dimensional properties of the shroud: https://www.freechristianteaching.tv/the-three-dimensional-properties-of-the-shroud

3. Video discussing the action-photography effect, indicating movement of the body during the creation of the shroud image:

4. Blood on the shroud: http://shroudofturin.weebly.com/blood-evidence.html

5. Flawed radiocarbon testing: While a radiocarbon test in 1988 dated the shroud to only around 1260–1390 AD, it has since been shown that the analysis was flawed as the sample was taken from an area of the cloth that had been repaired with newer materials during the Middle Ages.

6. The Sudarium of Oviedo: History and Relationship to the shroud:

7. Significantly, the Sudarium facecloth bears no image like the shroud. This is because the facecloth was apparently removed and put aside, as recorded in John, before the shroud was placed over the body and the image later formed.

. . .

*Visit the author’s website: www.theseasonofreturn.com

YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVxcqsgEKvYtscqyYJpTxbQ
 
Top