The seed of the serpent

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#41
Yes. But we are both subject to shrivelling and death so its only safe to assume its the same agent responsible for those processes in all life forms.
By the way, I don't necessarily view our reptilian DNA as "corruption.". It just happens that the reptilian species who co-created humans were not really benevolent. Not all reptilians are evil I have found out. They are also pretty much immortal and are hyperdimensional in nature. They also clone themselves apparently. So death is not really part of their lives.
 





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#42
I believe in salvation through Christ alone and God is incapable of evil (lying). What I question is the 'serpent seed'. But let's make it real easy...

Pretty much every single attempt on Christ's life was prophecied by the prophets of old. Jeremiah foretold Herod's massacre of the infants and the subsequent flight of the family to and return from Egypt (spoken of by Hosea). And the betrayal to the cross.

Luke 22:3/Psalm 69:19-28
Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.


So, where is the prophetic voice (clear, indisputable verses), on Satan's attempts to corrupt His bloodline and jeopardize the plan of redemption (before and after the flood) with his seed and the Father's subsequent intervention to stop it dead in the tracks?
Such an attack would be important enough to not overlook rather than scripture leaving it to conjecture or be inferred from the wiping out of the nephilim.
Lets back up.. what is your explanation for Genesis 6? Do you subscribe to the Sethite theory or something? Or ignore it altogether?
 





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#43
Lets back up.. what is your explanation for Genesis 6? Do you subscribe to the Sethite theory or something? Or ignore it altogether?
The two positions to the Gen 6 question are : Nephilim were ordinary men of great stature...and...serpent's seed/aliens/reptilians.

To assert the latter as the absolute truth lends great weight to it. There is no way that the Patriarchs through to David would have remained silent on something so serious, enough to threaten man's redemption.
Problem is, accepting it brings up so many questions that even the scriptures can't answer or support.

The argument of intermarriage is often put forth, but even it doesn't hold weight because the very reason a ban was put in place was to safeguard the spirituality of the Israelites (deut 7:3, numbers 31:15-16). Don't you think the verse in Deuteronomy would have mentioned the serious issue of 'serpent seed'? Even Rev 12 says nothing about it.

The Sethite theory is favorable to me because it doesn't drag along aforementioned questions. It also accounts for giant fauna and flora in the antediluvian world, but the serpent seed/alien theory fails to do so.

Hence, (like Jesus said to the Jews), I believe in 'serpent seed' BUT spiritual spawn. Doing deeds of 'your father'....by their fruit you shall know them....
 





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#44
1 Samuel 9:2
And he had a son, whose name was Saul, a choice young man, and a goodly: and there was not among the children of Israel a goodlier person than he: from his shoulders and upward he was higher than any of the people.


And King Saul? Anointed by Samuel at God's command (9:17). So either everyone in Israel was 4 or 5 ft, which i highly doubt or Saul was in the same height range as Goliath.

Goliath offered man to man combat for forty days before David came to visit the Israeli camp. His armour weighted in at 5000 shekels of bronze and the staff of his spear was like a weaver’s beam and his iron spearhead weighed six hundred shekels.

Ishbi-Benob also of the giants wielded a bronze spear of three hundred shekels.

2 Samuel 21:20"Yet again there was war at Gath, where there was a man of great stature, who had six fingers on each hand and six toes on each foot, twenty-four in number; and he also was born to the giant."



It is in fact not possible to read the biblical account of the conquest of Canaan and not come to the conclusion that there were giants.

Genesis 6 4"There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown."

Numbers 13 33"There we saw the giants (the descendants of Anak came from the giants); and we were like grasshoppers in our own sight, and so we were in their sight."

Deuteronomy 3 11“For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of the giants. Indeed his bedstead was an iron bedstead. (Is it not in Rabbah of the people of Ammon?) Nine cubits is its length and four cubits its width, according to the standard cubit."

Amos 2 9"Yet it was I who destroyed the Amorite before them, whose height was like the height of the cedars, and he was as strong as the oaks; Yet I destroyed his fruit above and his roots beneath."
 





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#45
The two positions to the Gen 6 question are : Nephilim were ordinary men of great stature...and...serpent's seed/aliens/reptilians.
To reiterate, I'm not talking about Lizard People or Reptilians, or whatever people are calling them. I'm talking about the Fallen Angels in Genesis and throughout the OT.

GENESIS 3:15
'... and enmity I put between thee and the woman,
and between thy seed and her seed; he doth bruise
thee -- the head, and thou dost bruise him -- the heel
.'

The same word is used, for both Eve and the serpent-- it seems like a fairly literal statement, imo.

zera
a sowing, seed, offspring
Short Definition: descendants

GENESIS 6:1-2
And it came to pass, when men began to multiply
on the face of the earth, and daughters were born
unto them, That the sons of God saw the daughters
of men
that they were fair; and they took them wives
of all which they chose...


ben: son
sons
hā·’ĕ·lō·hîm
of God, god

be·no·vt
daughters
ha·'a·dam
of man, mankind

I kind of think the argument of intermarriage holds weight by virtue of the fact that it was explicitly stated in Genesis 6 (above), and it appears to be the impetus for the deluge-- it's important. There is nothing in Genesis that supports the Sethite theory-- the excerpt above, and the definitions from the lexicon show that the author is speaking of the daughters of Mankind, as a whole. In no way are the daughters of 'Cain' singled out, whatever. IIrc, it was St Augustine (possibly, another Catholic... not certain) that came up with the Sethite view because it wasn't as icky. It just has no biblical support.

From a personal standpoint, I don't see any sense in Jehovah ordering entire cities wiped out, women and children, too, for the purpose of 'safeguarding the spirituality' of the Israelites. It seems more sensible that they would be killed to stop their procreation. Spiritual transgression can be forgiven in men-- polluting the bloodline, and turning Israel into something no longer human is a different thing, altogether.

From my previous post:

It should be noted though that this is exactly what it seems Satan was trying accomplish through the Fallen ones in Genesis 6-- that he was trying to compromise/ corrupt the bloodline to prevent the incarnation of Christ, and thus, our salvation.

I did not assert it as the absolute truth-- but it is a fairly reasonable conclusion, based on the information we're given. You say they were silent on the matter, but check @TokiEl 's excerpts above... those are not the descriptions of mere men with evil tendencies.

Hence, (like Jesus said to the Jews), I believe in 'serpent seed' BUT spiritual spawn. Doing deeds of 'your father'....by their fruit you shall know them....
I understand what you're saying here, but it seems to be a clarification-- simply being 'pure' in your lineage will not save you. Even with Noah, who was pure in his lineage... the verses point out:

GENESIS 6:8-10
And Noah found grace in the eyes of Jehovah.
These [are] births of Noah: Noah [is] a righteous man; perfect he hath been among his generations; with God hath Noah walked habitually.


They may not have been born of the 'serpent seed', but they may as well have been.
 





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#46
To reiterate, I'm not talking about Lizard People or Reptilians, or whatever people are calling them. I'm talking about the Fallen Angels in Genesis and throughout the OT.
I already understood your position. I just decided to categorize them into two: either they were ordinary humans or other (that is; serpent seed/reptilian/alien). Because if one doesn't believe in the former, one falls into the latter.
The same word is used, for both Eve and the serpent-- it seems like a fairly literal statement, imo.
So Jesus said there is the natural and spiritual seed. I take it the serpent also has natural and spiritual seed?
I kind of think the argument of intermarriage holds weight by virtue of the fact that it was explicitly stated in Genesis 6 (above), and it appears to be the impetus for the deluge-- it's important. There is nothing in Genesis that supports the Sethite theory-- the excerpt above, and the definitions from the lexicon show that the author is speaking of the daughters of Mankind, as a whole. In no way are the daughters of 'Cain' singled out, whatever. IIrc, it was St Augustine (possibly, another Catholic... not certain) that came up with the Sethite view because it wasn't as icky. It just has no biblical support
That is true, about intermarriage and the consequences it brought on. My point was, since the Nephilim lived on after the flood, mind you they also descended from Noah, why isn't there an explicit command about it when scripture talks about a ban on intermarriage? You said it is so serious, why the silence?

Even if the "sons of God" weren't Sethites, scripture else talks about the antediluvians as "people" or "men". There's nothing about hybrids or chimeras. Again, if it was so serious an issue, why the silence? Why isn't there a solid description of the serpent seed instead of just drawing it up from conjecture? We both agree, as Tokiel listed, that those were giants. What we disagree upon is who they really were.

Also disregarding the pre-giants, how do you account for pre-flood giant plants, animals and insects?

From a personal standpoint, I don't see any sense in Jehovah ordering entire cities wiped out, women and children, too, for the purpose of 'safeguarding the spirituality' of the Israelites. It seems more sensible that they would be killed to stop their procreation. Spiritual transgression can be forgiven in men-- polluting the bloodline, and turning Israel into something no longer human is a different thing, altogether.
Where is a clear verse that polluting the bloodline is an unforgivable sin?

God clearly said that they were to wipe the Cannanites out because their spiritual practices would become a snare to them. Numbers 33:50-55, Deut 7:1-5, 12:29-32

They may not have been born of the 'serpent seed', but they may as well have been.
If they may as well have been, isn't Christ's bloodline already compromised then?
 





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#47
O.P.

The first time the bible speaks of the talking serpent/Satan is in Eden.

Care to speculate on why God put Satan in Eden if he did not want Eve tempted?

Remember that God had already chosen to have Jesus murdered and may have needed sin on earth and if Eve had not started that process then Jesus would not have fulfilled what God had chosen him to do.

Regards
DL
 





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#48
I already understood your position. I just decided to categorize them into two: either they were ordinary humans or other (that is; serpent seed/reptilian/alien). Because if one doesn't believe in the former, one falls into the latter.

So Jesus said there is the natural and spiritual seed. I take it the serpent also has natural and spiritual seed?

That is true, about intermarriage and the consequences it brought on. My point was, since the Nephilim lived on after the flood, mind you they also descended from Noah, why isn't there an explicit command about it when scripture talks about a ban on intermarriage? You said it is so serious, why the silence?

Even if the "sons of God" weren't Sethites, scripture else talks about the antediluvians as "people" or "men". There's nothing about hybrids or chimeras. Again, if it was so serious an issue, why the silence? Why isn't there a solid description of the serpent seed instead of just drawing it up from conjecture? We both agree, as Tokiel listed, that those were giants. What we disagree upon is who they really were.

Also disregarding the pre-giants, how do you account for pre-flood giant plants, animals and insects?


Where is a clear verse that polluting the bloodline is an unforgivable sin?

God clearly said that they were to wipe the Cannanites out because their spiritual practices would become a snare to them. Numbers 33:50-55, Deut 7:1-5, 12:29-32



If they may as well have been, isn't Christ's bloodline already compromised then?
I've answered several of these questions already-- you're rehashing. 'll catch up with you later on the rest.
 





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#49
I already understood your position. I just decided... they were ...serpent seed/reptilian/alien).
Right-o.

So Jesus said there is the natural and spiritual seed. I take it the serpent also has natural and spiritual seed?
Seems that way.

That is true, about intermarriage and the consequences it brought on. My point was, since the Nephilim lived on after the flood, mind you they also descended from Noah, why isn't there an explicit command about it when scripture talks about a ban on intermarriage? You said it is so serious, why the silence?
I answered this already.

Even if the "sons of God" weren't Sethites, scripture else talks about the antediluvians as "people" or "men".
Or GIANTS. Satyrs. Ariels.

There's nothing about hybrids or chimeras. Again, if it was so serious an issue, why the silence? Why isn't there a solid description of the serpent seed instead of just drawing it up from conjecture? We both agree, as Tokiel listed, that those were giants. What we disagree upon is who they really were.
I answered this.

Also disregarding the pre-giants, how do you account for pre-flood giant plants, animals and insects?
Where is a clear verse that polluting the bloodline is an unforgivable sin?
Answered this too. Also noted-- you have no problem with false doctrine-- you're just selective.

God clearly said that they were to wipe the Cannanites out because their spiritual practices would become a snare to them. Numbers 33:50-55, Deut 7:1-5, 12:29-32
No, it was in no way *limited* to that. That's a presumption.

If they may as well have been, isn't Christ's bloodline already compromised then?
How do you figure that?
 





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#50
Bottom line is, you have your position and I have mine. I haven't been given any clear,solid scriptures buttressing your position.

The Patriarchs/Prophets are silent on it. The biology wouldn't even permit it. Man was created a little lower than the angels (psalm 8:5). Have you ever seen offspring resulting of bestiality? Man and the lower life forms, without gene technology? But as it is claimed, these fallen angels got married (the word wife is used) and had offspring. I will stand by the aforementioned psalm.
They (Noah) may not have been born of the 'serpent seed', but they may as well have been.
If they may as well have been, isn't Christ's bloodline already compromised then?
How do you figure that?
Luke 3:35-38

the son of Simeon, the son of Judah, the son of Joseph, the son of Jonan, the son of Eliakim, the son of Melea, the son of Menan, the son of Mattathah, the son of Nathan, the son of David, the son of Jesse, the son of Obed, the son of Boaz, the son of Salmon, the son of Nahshon, the son of Amminadab, the son of Ram,
the son of Hezron, the son of Perez,
the son of Judah, the son of Jacob,
the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham,
the son of Terah, the son of Nahor,the son of Serug, the son of Reu,
the son of Peleg, the son of Eber, the son of Shelah, the son of Cainan,
the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem,
the son of Noah, the son of Lamech,
the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, the son of Jared, the son of Mahalalel, the son of Cainan, the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God."


There you have it. Joseph and Mary were direct descendants of David, as the prophecy said. So if Noah was compromised in the tiniest bit, so was Christ. But since i believe the nephilim were ordinary human beings, there's nothing for me to stretch.
 





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#51
But as it is claimed..
As it is written.
... these fallen angels got married (the word wife is used) and had offspring. I will stand by the aforementioned psalm.
Some versions use the word wives.. the literal version renders the word women, but imo, they took wives. Makes more sense, especially when you consider the way the supernatural are portrayed today. The vampyres, the demigods, the Heroes... all very swoonworthy. But I digress!

From your post: Luke 3:35-38
Solomon's Ammonite wife, with whom you took issue, is not listed in Mary's genealogy-- and neither is Solomon. That, coupled with the LEVIRATE MARRIAGE tradition (and the will of God)-- the theory just doesn't work. Idk what you're on about with Noah, but stretching is an understatement.

And, yes-- mankind was made a little lower than the gods... the heavenly beings... the elohim. I don't see the relevance here of that verse. Nevertheless, if Genesis 6 was a non-event-- the elohim abandoning their first estate, and taking human wives, I mean-- we wouldn't be having this exchange.
---
 





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#52
Some versions use the word wives.. the literal version renders the word women, but imo, they took wives. Makes more sense, especially when you consider the way the supernatural are portrayed today. The vampyres, the demigods, the Heroes... all very swoonworthy. But I digress!
Swoonworthy indeed. But it was well of you to digress. You think its the agenda of TPTB to push that kind of forbidden relation, alongside p***philia, to recreate pre-flood degeneracy? Ex: Ke$ha and others
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/lists/-w446386/keshas-sexy-supernatural-energy-w446390
But what is the point if, as you say, the fallen are locked up and can no longer procreate? I don't see any other reason for TPTB other than accustoming people to spiritism.
From your post: Luke 3:35-38
Solomon's Ammonite wife, with whom you took issue, is not listed in Mary's genealogy-- and neither is Solomon.
That and the one in Matthew differ but the bottom line is we all descended from Noah.
And, yes-- mankind was made a little lower than the gods... the heavenly beings... the elohim. I don't see the relevance here of that verse.
Iam emphasising the biological makeup. Man was created from the dust of the earth. There's nothing about that, regarding Satan (Ezekiel 28) and his hordes.
Nevertheless, if Genesis 6 was a non-event-- the elohim abandoning their first estate, and taking human wives, I mean-- we wouldn't be having this exchange.
Iam not saying it was a non-issue. The intermarriage wasn't the only thing that called for the flood.

Genesis 6:13 (compare Isa 24:4-6, Hos 4:1-4)
And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth."


Not any different from now, how we have essentially destroyed our habitation (chemtrails, fracking, fukushima etc)
 





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#56
Swoonworthy indeed. But it was well of you to digress. You think its the agenda of TPTB to push that kind of forbidden relation, alongside p***philia, to recreate pre-flood degeneracy?
Have you studied this or are you just picking at what I've posted? Serious question.

EDIT: I ask because you don't seem to understand that there are two different types of creatures here. There are the Sons of God, and then, there are their children-- the Nephilim. They are not the same.
 





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#58
Why not? Sure would solve the problem of who Satan's seed are. Lots of persuasive books/articles written on this lately. Much of the Hebrew used in those passages has strong sexual connotations.
It's just not biblical.

Young's Literal Translation
And the woman seeth that the tree is good for food, and that it is pleasant to the eyes, and the tree is desirable to make one wise, and she taketh of its fruit and eateth, and giveth also to her husband with her, and he doth eat...

GENESIS 3:6
 





cfowen

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#60
It's just not biblical.

Young's Literal Translation
And the woman seeth that the tree is good for food, and that it is pleasant to the eyes, and the tree is desirable to make one wise, and she taketh of its fruit and eateth, and giveth also to her husband with her, and he doth eat...

GENESIS 3:6
You really can't see those sexual conotations unless you understand the Hebrew. I don't, but many recent articles and books on the subject give good explanations. It doesn't contradict anything in the English Bible. It's just non-Biblical, like about half of what you hear in most any denominational church. It is offensive to our sensibilities but, oh well! It would answer a lot of questions, about who is Satan's seed in Gen 3:15 and why God had all those tribes in the land annihilated by Israel?
Gen 3:15 (said to the serpent)
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Her seed, of course, is Christ. Who are the serpent's seed in Gen 3:15 and how did the serpent's seed come about?
 





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