The seed of the serpent

TokiEl

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As far as Jesus being Michael, the problem I have always had with Christians, Christianity, and the New Testament is that Jesus pretty much take on the role of EVERYONE ( id thief as I call it)

He’s David, the seed of David, he’s the son, he’s Elijah, the Holy Spirit, he’s Judah, he’s Emmanuel, HELL he’s even God.
I'm sure Jesus is God... but since He also spoke about the Father... there is more to God than one Person only.

There is a hint to this in God's own name... as Moses would draw God's name in the proto sinaitic script as... arm person peg person.

Two Persons.


So who was Jesus in the Jewish scriptures before birth on earth ? It's a legitimate question which the Scriptures should be able to answer with satisfaction.

And i am satisfied.
 






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Yahda

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I'm sure Jesus is God... but since He also spoke about the Father... there is more to God than one Person only.

There is a hint to this in God's own name... as Moses would draw God's name in the proto sinaitic script as... arm person peg person.

Two Persons.


So who was Jesus in the Jewish scriptures before birth on earth ? It's a legitimate question which the Scriptures should be able to answer with satisfaction.
What Jewish scripture? Do you mean Jew as in JUDAH ? That’s the only JU I know.

Psalms 147:19 He sheweth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel.

20 He hath not dealt so with any other nation: and as for his judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the LORD.

As far as jesus being God I don’t engage in blasphemous arguments. You are on your own with that.
 






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TokiEl

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As far as jesus being God I don’t indulge in blasphemous arguments. You are on your own with that.
The Jewish scriptures in Micah 5 claim one from eternity to be born in Bethlehem. And in Isaiah 9:6 a child is to be born who is God.

Jesus claimed to be both the Messiah and God... and was born in Bethlehem.

So i do not doubt the Divinity of Jesus Christ... but that is because the Father finally gave me insight after pursuing truths for two decades. Let's just give that goofball what he wants i imagine They said.

Truths do not come all at once... and i of course don't know all... but i know more than most.
 






Vytas

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A digestive tract is an absolute necessity to any created being. Testicles...not so much..
How you would explain that all angels we are aware of are males ? Because if they are genderless it's a huge coincidence they all have male names. Digestive tract won't cut it :)
 






Yahda

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The Jewish scriptures in Micah 5 claim one from eternity to be born in Bethlehem. And in Isaiah 9:6 a child is to be born who is God.

Jesus claimed to be both the Messiah and God... and was born in Bethlehem.

So i do not doubt the Divinity of Jesus Christ... but that is because the Father finally gave me insight after pursuing truths for two decades. Let's just give that goofball what he wants i imagine They said.

Truths do not come all at once... and i of course don't know all... but i know more than most.
Micah 5:2 "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times."

1st Samuel 17:12 Now David was the son of that Ephrathite from BETHLEHEM whose name was Jesse; and he had eight sons:

Psalms 89:3 I have made a covenant with my chosen one I have sworn to David my servant

V19 at that time you spoke in a vision to your loyal ones and said “ I have granted strength to a mighty one; I have exalted a chosen one from among the people. I have found my servant David. With my holy oil I have anointed him. My hand will support him and my arm will strengthen him...and I will place him as FIRST BORN THE HIGHEST OF THE KINGS ON EARTH

Jeremiah 30:8 “ and in that day I will break the yoke from off your neck and your straps I will tear in two and no more will strangers make him their slave. They will serve the Lord their God and David their King whom I will raise up for them.”

Ezekiel 37:21 “ Then tell them this, this is what the Lord says: I will take the Israelites from among the nations where they have gone and I will collect them together from every direction and bring them to this land.....They will no longer DEFILE themselves with DISGUSTING IDOLS and DETESTABLE PRACTICES.... I will save them. I will cleanse them. They will be my people and I will be their God. MY SERVANT DAVID will be THEIR KING. They will walk in my judicial decisions and carefully observe my statues. They will dwell on the land ( NOT HEAVEN) that I have to my servant Jacob, where their forefathers lives and they will dwell on it FOREVER, they and their children’s children and David my servant will be their chieftain FOREVER”
 






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phipps

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You posted, "Perhaps the best proof text to demonstrate that Michael the Archangel and Jesus are not the same person is found in Jude 9. The Lord Jesus would not have to call on the name of anyone else in order to rebuke the devil because the Lord Jesus is God in flesh. However, we see that Michael the Archangel said, "The Lord rebuke you," thereby demonstrating that he is not the Lord."

Did you try and find out if the Lord and used similar words before in the Bible? Compare Jude 9 with Zechariah 3:1-2.

"Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” " (Jude 1:9).

"Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the Angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to oppose him. And the Lord said to Satan, “The Lord rebuke you, Satan! The Lord who has chosen Jerusalem rebuke you! Is this not a brand plucked from the fire?” " (Zechariah 3:1-2).

So The Lord has said before to Satan "The Lord rebuke you!". In Zechariah 3:1-2 first says "the angel of the LORD” then later it says, "And the Lord said to Satan, “The Lord rebuke you, Satan! The Lord who has chosen Jerusalem rebuke you! So we know the angel of the Lord is the Lord. Its Jesus. Its clarified for us immediately.

Is it a coincidence then that the same happens over Moses? Who else but God can contend with Satan over Moses and Joshua?
In both Jude 9 and Zechariah 3:1-2 it is Jesus, the “angel of the LORD” who is also “Michael the archangel”, contending with Satan for both Moses and Joshua.

If we don't understand something in the Bible we shouldn't come to conclusions without finding out if the subject is written about in another part of the Bible or similar words are used elsewhere in the Bible. When studying the Bible, we must compare Scripture with Scripture, "For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line: here a little and there a little" (Isaiah 28:10). We must remember that the Bible is not one book but 66 books written over a period of 1500 years. That very fact allows us to use the Bible to interpret itself. When we do this, we will discover truth.
 






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Karlysymon

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How you would explain that all angels we are aware of are males ? Because if they are genderless it's a huge coincidence they all have male names. Digestive tract won't cut it :)
Fair enough. You contend that that they are all male with (obviously) reproductive organs as proven by the Nephilim. The question remains; if they have said organs, it goes to show that they were created to procreate...but not with humans because you can only be understood by your own kind (Gen 2:20). So who were they designed to procreate with?
 






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Red Sky at Morning

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You posted, "Perhaps the best proof text to demonstrate that Michael the Archangel and Jesus are not the same person is found in Jude 9. The Lord Jesus would not have to call on the name of anyone else in order to rebuke the devil because the Lord Jesus is God in flesh. However, we see that Michael the Archangel said, "The Lord rebuke you," thereby demonstrating that he is not the Lord."

So compare Jude 9 with Zechariah 3:1-2.

"Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” " (Jude 1:9).

"Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the Angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to oppose him. And the Lord said to Satan, “The Lord rebuke you, Satan! The Lord who has chosen Jerusalem rebuke you! Is this not a brand plucked from the fire?” " (Zechariah 3:1-2).

So The Lord has said before to Satan "The Lord rebuke you!". In Zechariah 3:1-2 first says "the angel of the LORD” then later it says, "And the Lord said to Satan, “The Lord rebuke you, Satan! The Lord who has chosen Jerusalem rebuke you! So we know the angel of the Lord is the Lord. Its Jesus. It clarified for us immediately.

Is it a coincidence then that the same happens over Moses? Who else but God can contend with Satan over Moses and Joshua?
In both Jude 9 and Zechariah 3:1-2 it is Jesus, the “angel of the LORD” who is also “Michael the archangel”, contending with Satan for both Moses and Joshua.

If we don't understand something in the Bible we shouldn't come to conclusions without finding out if the subject is written about in another part of the Bible or similar words are used elsewhere in the Bible. When studying the Bible, we must compare Scripture with Scripture, "For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line: here a little and there a little" (Isaiah 28:10). We must remember that the Bible is not one book but 66 books written over a period of 1500 years. That very fact allows us to use the Bible to interpret itself. When we do this, we will discover truth.
I suspect that these subjects (Nephilim and Michael / Jesus) are ones over which people take a view based on their wider understanding of scripture, as many of these entries indicate.

I see no benefit in beating people over the head with my view - I have shared them and given reasons why I see things the way I do, but I think after a certain time some discussions become unproductive so I will leave this one to those who wish to continue it further.
 






phipps

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I suspect that these subjects (Nephilim and Michael / Jesus) are ones over which people take a view based on their wider understanding of scripture, as many of these entries indicate.

I see no benefit in beating people over the head with my view - I have shared them and given reasons why I see things the way I do, but I think after a certain time some discussions become unproductive so I will leave this one to those who wish to continue it further.
This is about the truth according to the word of God. I'm over the subject of the Nephilim, I think what I and another user here have said has hopefully given you food for thought and led you to study the Bible further. But if you get one thing wrong how many others are you going to get wrong because you've misinterpreted the Bible and therefore misunderstood God?

That is why I used scripture to answer the statement you made about the Lord rebuking Satan in the Lord's name.

Now that you know that He did rebuke the devil in the name of the Lord in the book of Zechariah, hopefully that means you can study the Bible more on the subject of Michael the archangel. Please do. The Adventists are actually right about that too and its all biblical.

God bless.
 






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Red Sky at Morning

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This is about the truth according to the word of God. I'm over the subject of the Nephilim, I think what I and another user here have said has hopefully given you food for thought led you to study the Bible further. But if you get one thing wrong how many others are you going to get wrong because you've misinterpreted the Bible and therefore misunderstood God?

That is why I used scripture to answer the statement you made about the Lord rebuking Satan in the Lord's name.

Now that you know that He did rebuke the devil in the name of the Lord in the book of Zechariah, hopefully that means you can study the Bible more on the subject of Michael the archangel. Please do. The Adventists are actually right about that too and its all biblical.

God bless.
My reason for being a stickler over this issue it that I beleive that if Jesus is anything less than fully God (even the highest of God's creations) then as God is infinite, he must be infinitely less. If so the notion that Jesus is fully God and fully man is compromised by this doctrine and the clarity of the Atonement is effected as well.

As the Michael doctrine appears to be important from an SDA perspective, I will now leave it.
 






TokiEl

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My reason for being a stickler over this issue it that I beleive that if Jesus is anything less than fully God (even the highest of God's creations) then as God is infinite, he must be infinitely less. If so the notion that Jesus is fully God and fully man is compromised by this doctrine and the clarity of the Atonement is effected as well.
This topic is not need to know... and neither is nephilim.

This is for the inquisitive who want to know who Jesus was in Heaven before His birth on earth.

In the scripture of truth according to Gabriel... Michael the Archangel is the Prince of Israel.
 






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phipps

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My reason for being a stickler over this issue it that I beleive that if Jesus is anything less than fully God (even the highest of God's creations) then as God is infinite, he must be infinitely less. If so the notion that Jesus is fully God and fully man is compromised by this doctrine and the clarity of the Atonement is effected as well.

As the Michael doctrine appears to be important from an SDA perspective, I will now leave it.
Jesus was human which is more lowly than an angel. He is still God no matter what lowly form He takes on. I have put up scripture where Joshua bows down to worship the angel of the Lord and He accepts it because its Jesus Himself (Joshua 5:13-15). No unfallen angel would accept worship.

If you read the story of Moses and the burning bush, it first tells us of the angel of the Lord who is talking to Moses then later it tell us that God is the "I AM". "And the Angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed" (Exodus 3:2). Verse 4 identifies this angel: “God called unto him out of the midst of the bush.” And in verse 6 He identifies Himself again. “I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. The angel of the Lord identifies Himself as God!

Do not pick and choose which scripture agrees with your doctrine. I used to do that. Read the Bible to find out the truth about God. At least test what I've told you as the Bible tells us to do before you dismiss it altogether. None of us know everything but we find out by studying and researching. This is not about religion, its about the truth and Adventists are right about Michael the archangel. Its all up to you.

And btw all Bible truths are important to Adventists not just this subject. Their main subjects though are the Sabbath and end time prophecy.
 






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This topic is not need to know... and neither is nephilim.

This is for the inquisitive who want to know who Jesus was in Heaven before His birth on earth.

In the scripture of truth according to Gabriel... Michael the Archangel is the Prince of Israel.
It is important and need to know otherwise Christ's disciples would not have written about it.

Jude
1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. (Zechariah 3:1-3)

1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his holy warriors,
1:15 To execute Judgment upon all, and to convince all that are unGodly among them of all their unGodly deeds which they have unGodly committed, and of all their hard [speeches] which unGodly sinners have spoken against Him.
1:16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling [words], having men's persons in admiration to gain advantage (reward).
1:17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Christ Jesus;
1:18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own unGodly lusts.

It is important if you care about what Jesus said:

Matthew
16:27 For the Son of Man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his WORKS.

In prophecy, Archangel Michael kills the Dragon.

Yes, Putin: They’re Going To Realize What They’ve Done

 






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Red Sky at Morning

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In prophecy, Archangel Michael kills the Dragon.
Revelation 12

The War in Heaven

7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12Therefore rejoice, yeheavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
 






phipps

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It is important and need to know otherwise Christ's disciples would not have written about it.

Jude
1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. (Zechariah 3:1-3)

1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his holy warriors,
1:15 To execute Judgment upon all, and to convince all that are unGodly among them of all their unGodly deeds which they have unGodly committed, and of all their hard [speeches] which unGodly sinners have spoken against Him.
1:16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling [words], having men's persons in admiration to gain advantage (reward).
1:17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Christ Jesus;
1:18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own unGodly lusts.

It is important if you care about what Jesus said:

Matthew
16:27 For the Son of Man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his WORKS.

In prophecy, Archangel Michael kills the Dragon.

Yes, Putin: They’re Going To Realize What They’ve Done
The problem with you is you're mixing truth with lies and that makes them lies. Alot of the things you're posting are not even biblical.
 






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The problem with you is you're mixing truth with lies and that makes them lies. Alot of the things you're posting are not even biblical.
In the days of Noah, people didn't want to believe him and they called him a liar, and then Noah turned out to be the one who was right.

The real problem is people still don't want to know the truth, because they would rather prefer to keep believing the lie that they are "not really evil", even when scripture (Jesus) told them otherwise.
 






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You have to seek the truth for yourself and then you have to choose if you are going to believe it or not.

Jesus said -

Matthew 7:11 If ye then, being evil

Luke 9:55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what kind of spirit ye are of (Rev. 12:7-9; Matt. 8:22).

It's there in scripture, for anyone to be able to see it and so it is biblical.

I'm just striving to pass on, what I've been fortunate to have been able to learn (and am still in the process of learning).
You decide, if you think it is right and biblically based, or not.
 






phipps

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In the days of Noah, people didn't want to believe him and they called him a liar, and then Noah turned out to be the one who was right.

The real problem is people still don't want to know the truth, because they would rather prefer to keep believing the lie that they are "not really evil", even when scripture (Jesus) told them otherwise.
That's different because Noah preached the truth. Yes most people reject the truth but some of the things you're posting here are not of God.

I want the truth but it has got to be based on the Bible. A lot of what you're posting here is not based on the Bible.
 






TokiEl

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It is important and need to know otherwise Christ's disciples would not have written about it.
What's important to know is... that at the Name of Jesus every knee will bow in heaven and on earth and under the earth and every tounge confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of the Father. Philippians 2:10

Acts 4 12Salvation exists in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.”
 






TokiEl

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Alien abduction is an aspect of reality which is stopped in the Name of Jesus... same with demonic activity.

That is truly amazing but we should not be surprised since this is written in God's book.

So it is of utmost importance to aliens and demons that humans don't know this secret.

And that is why our governments who are in league with them have pushed the theory of evolution bullshite down our throats.
 






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