How can be someone, who was born half a century after the event be so sure that it didn't happen? When there were many eye witnesses, even Romans and their historians confirmed that Jesus was crucified and died.
Because something that called itself and looked like angel said it didn't happen?
Founding father of Mormonism - Joseph Smith was also approached by an angel with revelation from god. Based on revelation from this angel Mormons believed people with dark skin don't have soul and cannot be saved and are at same level as animals. They also say that God was also a human like you and me, but became God, was given his own universe to have spirit babies who are born on Earth, and if we work hard enough, we can become God as well and have universe of our own.
Not all angels are good, one third of angels fell from heaven with Lucy.
Jesus died on cross, that's historical fact.
Why do you totally ignore many other places, where it's clear Jesus is part of trinity and lived even before creation of this universe?
“Truly, truly, I tell you,” Jesus declared, “before Abraham was born, I am!”
I believe the crucifixion happened, i disagree with
@Daze and my interpretation of the verse he's quoted differs.
It's a deeper topic. That verse refers to the sadducee's who didnt believe in life after death, the resurrection etc.
You should read the first 3 chapters from this text (which was approved by your church fathers .
1 Love uprightness you who are rulers on earth, be properly disposed towards the Lord and seek him in simplicity of heart; 2 for he will be found by those who do not put him to the test, revealing himself to those who do not mistrust him. 3 Perverse thoughts, however, separate people from God...
www.catholic.org
though it is a catholic link, the book itself is not catholic, it is older than Jesus. if you've never read this book you'll be surprised when you read chapter 2 because it's a prophecy about the sadducee's and Jesus.
chapter 3 reveals a perspective that the Quran later highlighted itself.
The ave muslim doesnt know about these type of texts or that perspective, they just quote it at face value without deeper knowledge.
in fact in islam, the Quran also says
'think not of the slain (in war) as dead, they are alive but you perceive it not'.
Death really occurs in the grave/hades where our carnal attachments (the 99 headed snake) imprison and punish us.
with Jesus, the serpent was put to death. Martydom is about killing your carnal nature for the sake of God. Since the Quran itself says martyrs are alive and not dead, then it makes sense that it would say 'you neither killed him nor crucified him, but it only appeared that way'.
the irony is muslims taking the same verse literally, it puts them in the same category as the sadducees, only seeing the outward appearance of words without any deeper understanding of their meaning.
As for angels, Gabriel etc.
The so called angel that came to Joseph Smith was called 'moroni' or some crap and it claimed it used to be a sailor in a past life.
It wouldn't pass the test in islam. In islam angels weren't 'former humans' and there's a better understanding in arab culture of jinns and angels. Jinns are 'beings of Fire' but few muslims actually know that the fire spoken of here is only symbolic of Desire. Desire is a product of self-awareness further down the metaphysical ladder, from Unity to multiplicity.
The seraph's in judeo-christianity are jinn. 'satan' the fallen angel is a seraph. Seraph's are feiry serpents. The idea is that jinn are born into a greater state of self-awareness at the next level of consciousness from angels of light. The basic consequence here is that said 'desire' is a metaphysical level itself and furthermore the jinns posess gender, beget children and so forth.
Islam acknowledges jinns, it doesnt say they are satans, rather satans can be either men or jinns, but not angels.
The 'angel' that came to Mohammad was Gabriel. Michael too.
Based on what ive seen, the jinn never claim to be an actual known biblical angel. they always give hints and make errors due to the nature of fire being in constant flux, they can never keep their story straight.
It also goes deeper than this. in judeo-christianity, the Seraph's are still the highest ranking of angels. Despite being 'feiry serpents'
here's what is written about their fire
en.wikipedia.org
The name "Seraphim" does not come from charity only, but from the excess of charity, expressed by the word ardor or fire. Hence Dionysius (Coel. Hier. vii) expounds the name "Seraphim" according to the properties of fire, containing an excess of heat. Now in fire we may consider three things.
First, the movement which is upwards and continuous. This signifies that they are borne inflexibly towards God.
Secondly, the active force which is "heat," which is not found in fire simply, but exists with a certain sharpness, as being of most penetrating action, and reaching even to the smallest things, and as it were, with superabundant fervor; whereby is signified the action of these angels, exercised powerfully upon those who are subject to them, rousing them to a like fervor, and cleansing them wholly by their heat.
Thirdly we consider in fire the quality of clarity, or brightness; which signifies that these angels have in themselves an inextinguishable light, and that they also perfectly enlighten others.
this is a fascinating insight. However, the fire is 'upwards and continuous' but notice as soon as iblees's attention was turned away from God/upwards and instead downwards to Adam, then the fire became destructive.
similarly in buddhism, the fire is called Tanha/craving and is the cause of all suffering. The idea is to transform the fire from destructive to beneficial fire, Chanda
en.wikipedia.org
Why this is particularly relevant is because if jinn are communicating with humans on our turf, that is the fire turned downwards, tanha..and as such all of their darker qualities eg jealousy, greed, anger, lust become openly apparent. they become shifty. just like any person who is flawed, you see right through them and their lies.
As for the rest, about islam and it's place within the biblical story.
The thing you don't want to be overlooking is that in the old testament God made a promise to Abraham/Hagar concerning Ismael. God said
'I will bless him and make him a great nation'.
Now first thing's first, before Jesus came, this wasn't possible. As it says
The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come
One last point of Paul's teachings was to explain that the 'truth' had left the Jews and been given to gentiles.
ok so post-Jesus we're looking at a gentile era right?
In the parable of tenants Jesus told the Jews that they'll be kicked out of the vineyard (in Isaiah 5 the vineyard is Jerusalem) and it will be given to a people more deserving who will produce the fruits.
Another perspective is that Paul was happy to point out that the gentiles of his time, were like the Patriarchs of the OT, living under the Grace of God, before the law of Moses was given to them.
Paul also argued that the law only came once the israelites lost faith in egypt.
God saw fit to give the israelites a law, even though they were once under His Grace.
Why? so that 'sin can be revealed' and as such could be erased through Jesus.
Yet Jesus only fulfilled the mosaic law. The gentiles didnt have a law like the mosaic law. That is why it's necessary for a new law bringer after Jesus and it makes perfect sense that he would be an Ishmaelite and God's promise via Ishmael would come true. Hell Paul even spoke of Hagar as 'bondage' so it makes far more sense that Ishmael's decendant would become the embodiment of the LAW system as in the Quranic law.
That is why in islamic prophecy it says when Jesus returns he will judge muslims by the Quran. Eg it is Jesus 'fulfilling the law' yet again. This btw has nothing to do with the crucifixion topic, fulfilling the law was through his higher teaching and elevating people.
My view is that that christianity lost it's way when it was hijacked by rome and that is why it became necessary for islam to come.
Lastly, if all that wasnt enough in John 16 Jesus said the holy spirit would come and 'bring all the truth and tell you what is yet to come'.
'he will speak only what he hears'.
Whilst the comforter is the holy spirit (and not gabriel), the holy spirit functions through people.
'speak only what he hears' 'not speak of his own' 'bring you all the truth'
that IS scripture/revelation
'tell you all that is to come' that is prophecy ie a prophet.
A messenger and a prophet, a new Rasul. So this perfectly points to islam.
so what does the Quran say about the holy spirit?
any clues?
Say: The holy spirit hath delivered it from thy Lord with truth, that it may confirm (the faith of) those who believe, and as guidance and good tidings for those who have surrendered (to Allah).
(سورة النحل, An-Nahl, Chapter #16, Verse #102)
isn't this what Jesus said would happen?
John 16
13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
“All this I have told you so that you will not fall away. They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, the time is coming when anyone who kills you will think they are offering a service to God. They will do such things because they have not known the Father or me. I have told you this, so...
www.biblegateway.com
