The satanic state named “Israel”

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@lightseeker

Just to open the discussion up, here is a claim…

“One of the things that makes the Bible unique is that it is a book of prophecy. It records around 1000 prophecies—500 have been fulfilled and 500 await their fulfillment. Prophecies not only show God’s wisdom, but also his control over all of history. It truly is His-story!”

These all go to proving my point actually and shows how brainless the zionist fantasy of the Bible is.
One prophecy says that nebuchadnesser saw in his dream the rise of the Roman empire, which the author of the article deduces means, the rise of the Roman empire sometime in our future. The only problem is nebuchadnesser lived in 600 BC, before the rise of the Roman empire. His prophecy didn't say, Rome would rise, then fall, then rise again. It's ridiculous to say that this is talking about our time, and not nebuchadnessers time looking forward to the actual rise of Rome.

Another from the article
"Babylon, the most admired of kingdoms, the Chaldeans’ source of honor and pride, will be destroyed by God just as Sodom and Gomorrah were. No one will live there again; no one will ever reside there again. No bedouin will camp there, no shepherds will rest their flocks there. Wild animals will rest there, the ruined houses will be full of hyenas."
And other prophecies concerning the fall of Babylon. Again, Babylon fell, was wiped from the map. This is the city he's talking about 2453bcd3-d41b-4d39-8c54-5c04ea947996.jpeg
That city is gone. The prophecy is used to say it will rise again, but the OT prophets never said that, it is in Revelation, which says "fallen, Babylon is fallen, due to [sin]"
Again, this happened already. The author acting like Babylon will rise and fall again is sheer stupidity of the highest order, aka pure zionist fantasy.

Can you find some writings of the early church fathers? Surely 1 person from the year 100-1200 let's say, talked about zionism. Because when I read the Bible, it's the heavenly Jerusalem that is talked about, not the zionist fantasy. The foretold return of the jews captivity from Babylon to Judea happened before Christ
 
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A perspective on preterism for contrast:

Not my perspective. New Testament prophecy still stands, old testament has clearly been fulfilled in the life of christ. The only way you get to the zionist perspective is by rejecting jesus as the messiah, which jews of course have no problem with, but.for Christians it's obviously cognitive dissonance
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Can you find some writings of the early church fathers? Surely 1 person from the year 100-1200 let's say, talked about how the Jesus rejectors need to put up tents in Palestine. Because when I read the Bible, it's the heavenly Jerusalem that is talked about, not the zionist fantasy.
Perhaps you have spoken with some strange CUFI types in the past? There is certainly an odd idea in Israel of somehow stepping into the Millennial promises and greater Israel without reference to Jesus. There is also the presumption that anyone who believes that God has gathered back the nation of Israel to their ancient home and believes that the Jews are somehow right on track, free from condemnation for any actions and will go right on into some eschatological utopia.

The ending of Matthew 23 says different.

37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.​

The Jews have not been gathered simply for blessing, but for sifting and judgement. The Tribulation will not be called the “time of Jacob’s Trouble” for nothing.
 
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The Jews have not been gathered simply for blessing, but for sifting and judgement. The Tribulation will not be called the “time of Jacob’s Trouble” for nothing
And this leads to the conclusion from which arose the title of the thread, Israel is a satanic state. Does God judge harshly those who do His will? Absolutely not. We are judged when our will is evil, influenced by satanic forces. It was those that led the zionist people in delusion to their current dwelling and misuse of scripture.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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And this leads to the conclusion from which arose the title of the thread, Israel is a satanic state. Does God judge harshly those who do His will? Absolutely not. We are judged when our will is evil, influenced by satanic forces. It was those that led the zionist people in delusion to their current dwelling and misuse of scripture.
God makes a distinction between the shepherds and the sheep. The generation that rejected Jesus was judged and the nation of Israel was ejected from their land.

The latter chapters of Ezekiel are prophetic of Israel’s future. Until recently I had never read Ezekiel 34 but this speaks of Gods anger at the “shepherds”.

I would seem that this passage is a reference to the Jewish leaders during the post 70AD diaspora, the wandering through the nations, the Lord himself gathering them back, a disapproval over their behaviour when they return, a promise of coming judgement between them and finally reference to rule by “David” (who I think can be prophetically linked to Jesus through his line) and a future millennial kingdom.


Ezekiel 34
New King James Version



Irresponsible Shepherds
34 And the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 2 “Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God to the shepherds: “Woe to the shepherds of Israel who feed themselves! Should not the shepherds feed the flocks? 3 You eat the fat and clothe yourselves with the wool; you slaughter the fatlings, but you do not feed the flock. 4 The weak you have not strengthened, nor have you healed those who were sick, nor bound up the broken, nor brought back what was driven away, nor sought what was lost; but with force and cruelty you have ruled them. 5 So they were scattered because there was no shepherd; and they became food for all the beasts of the field when they were scattered. 6 My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and on every high hill; yes, My flock was scattered over the whole face of the earth, and no one was seeking or searching for them.
7 ‘Therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of the Lord: 8 “As I live,” says the Lord God, “surely because My flock became a prey, and My flock became food for every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, nor did My shepherds search for My flock, but the shepherds fed themselves and did not feed My flock”— 9 therefore, O shepherds, hear the word of the Lord! 10 Thus says the Lord God: “Behold, I am against the shepherds, and I will require My flock at their hand; I will cause them to cease feeding the sheep, and the shepherds shall feed themselves no more; for I will deliver My flock from their mouths, that they may no longer be food for them.”

God, the True Shepherd
11 ‘For thus says the Lord God: “Indeed I Myself will search for My sheep and seek them out. 12 As a shepherd seeks out his flock on the day he is among his scattered sheep, so will I seek out My sheep and deliver them from all the places where they were scattered on a cloudy and dark day. 13 And I will bring them out from the peoples and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land; I will feed them on the mountains of Israel, in the valleys and in all the inhabited places of the country. 14 I will feed them in good pasture, and their fold shall be on the high mountains of Israel. There they shall lie down in a good fold and feed in rich pasture on the mountains of Israel. 15 I will feed My flock, and I will make them lie down,” says the Lord God. 16 “I will seek what was lost and bring back what was driven away, bind up the broken and strengthen what was sick; but I will destroy the fat and the strong, and feed them in judgment.”
17 ‘And as for you, O My flock, thus says the Lord God: “Behold, I shall judge between sheep and sheep, between rams and goats. 18 Is it too little for you to have eaten up the good pasture, that you must tread down with your feet the [c]residue of your pasture—and to have drunk of the clear waters, that you must foul the residue with your feet? 19 And as for My flock, they eat what you have trampled with your feet, and they drink what you have fouled with your feet.”
20 ‘Therefore thus says the Lord God to them: “Behold, I Myself will judge between the fat and the lean sheep. 21 Because you have pushed with side and shoulder, butted all the weak ones with your horns, and scattered them abroad, 22 therefore I will save My flock, and they shall no longer be a prey; and I will judge between sheep and sheep. 23 I will establish one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them—My servant David. He shall feed them and be their shepherd. 24 And I, the Lord, will be their God, and My servant David a prince among them; I, the Lord, have spoken.
25 “I will make a covenant of peace with them, and cause wild beasts to cease from the land; and they will dwell safely in the wilderness and sleep in the woods. 26 I will make them and the places all around My hill a blessing; and I will cause showers to come down in their season; there shall be showers of blessing. 27 Then the trees of the field shall yield their fruit, and the earth shall yield her increase. They shall be safe in their land; and they shall know that I am the Lord, when I have broken the bands of their yoke and delivered them from the hand of those who enslaved them. 28 And they shall no longer be a prey for the nations, nor shall beasts of the land devour them; but they shall dwell safely, and no one shall make them afraid. 29 I will raise up for them a garden of renown, and they shall no longer be consumed with hunger in the land, nor bear the shame of the Gentiles anymore. 30 Thus they shall know that I, the Lord their God, am with them, and they, the house of Israel, are My people,” says the Lord God.’
31 “You are My flock, the flock of My pasture; you are men, and I am your God,” says the Lord God.
 
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God makes a distinction between the shepherds and the sheep. The generation that rejected Jesus was judged and the nation of Israel was ejected from their land.

The latter chapters of Ezekiel are prophetic of Israel’s future. Until recently I had never read Ezekiel 34 but this speaks of Gods anger at the “shepherds”.

I would seem that this passage is a reference to the Jewish leaders during the post 70AD diaspora, the wandering through the nations, the Lord himself gathering them back, a disapproval over their behaviour when they return, a promise of coming judgement between them and finally reference to rule by “David” (who I think can be prophetically linked to Jesus through his line) and a future millennial kingdom.

Again, I see no indication here that Ezekiel is not talking about the Jewish people in Babylonian captivity in his time, being freed and returning to Judea, as happened soon after his time. That is also when king David’s line appeared to rule over (those who accepted him).
One of the reasons the Jews of that day, and current day reject Jesus is because the prophecies spoke of the messiah as a king, a ruler, and they couldn’t accept that Jesus was a king (who’s kingdom is not of this world, as we are not of this world).
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Again, I see no indication here that Ezekiel is not talking about the Jewish people in Babylonian captivity in his time, being freed and returning to Judea, as happened soon after his time. That is also when king David’s line appeared to rule over (those who accepted him).
One of the reasons the Jews of that day, and current day reject Jesus is because the prophecies spoke of the messiah as a king, a ruler, and they couldn’t accept that Jesus was a king (who’s kingdom is not of this world, as we are not of this world).
One thing I like about a forum is the diversity of views it facilitates. I picture an amphitheatre with Greeks in togas standing up and setting forth their ideas while others look on and weigh their words.

For a wider analysis of the prophetic perspective I agree with (if anyone is interested) you could check out the following:


As for you personally @lightseeker - I don’t expect you to change your perspective because I have fired over a chapter (though you may wish to review chapter 36 as well).

The Word of Promise® NKJV Audio Bible
22 “Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “I do not do this for your sake, O house of Israel, but for My holy name’s sake, which you have profaned among the nations wherever you went.
23 And I will sanctify My great name, which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst; and the nations shall know that I am the LORD,” says the Lord GOD, “when I am hallowed in you before their eyes.
24 For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land.
25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols.
Ezekiel 36:22-25 NKJV

I will politely leave you to your view and continue as the Lord guides me.

One thing before I go. The issue I have with the premise of this thread goes back to Baalam. He is famously quoted in Numbers 23:
7And he took up his parable, and said, Balak the king of Moab hath brought me from Aram, out of the mountains of the east, saying, Come, curse me Jacob, and come, defy Israel. 8How shall I curse, whom God hath not cursed? or how shall I defy, whom the LORD hath not defied?
Accordingly, I will leave you to your view and politely conclude my interaction over this issue.
 
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One thing I like about a forum is the diversity of views it facilitates. I picture an amphitheatre with Greeks in togas standing up and setting forth their ideas while others look on and weigh their words.

For a wider analysis of the prophetic perspective I agree with (if anyone is interested) you could check out the following:


As for you personally @lightseeker - I don’t expect you to change your perspective because I have fired over a chapter (though you may wish to review chapter 36 as well). I will politely leave you to your view and continue as the Lord guides me.

One thing before I go. The issue I have with the premise of this thread goes back to Baalam. He is famously quoted in Numbers 23:
7And he took up his parable, and said, Balak the king of Moab hath brought me from Aram, out of the mountains of the east, saying, Come, curse me Jacob, and come, defy Israel. 8How shall I curse, whom God hath not cursed? or how shall I defy, whom the LORD hath not defied?
Accordingly, I will leave you to your view and politely conclude my interaction over this issue.
Well I am interested if you have any further input, but I do continue to fail to see how any old testament prophecies have not been fulfilled either historically or by the life of christ.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Well I am interested if you have any further input, but I do continue to fail to see how any old testament prophecies have not been fulfilled either historically or by the life of christ.
I will leave it with you. We hold different perspectives but I don’t believe in being rude and you may well have come to your own through good, honest reasoning.

Btw - one of my favourite adverts ever…

 
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@lightseeker
basically, in Daniel 7, it spoke of the fourth Beast, Rome...and it's 10 horns.
This was fulfilled from the 10 emperors of Rome who were specifically tied to the jewish temple (since these beasts are all connected to the temple, they are temple centric figures).

8 “While I was thinking about the horns, there before me was another horn, a little one, which came up among them; and three of the first horns were uprooted before it
the little horn was Titus, who was the son of Vespasian who was the victor in the 'year of 4 emperors' (the fulfillment of this prophecy). Titus became full emperor after the temple was destroyed..hence it talks of him as one of the 10 but calls him 'little horn'

. 24 The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom. After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings. 25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time

the problem is this...
after the temple and titus, Jesus didnt return..
in the prophecy it jumps from this event to the second coming of Jesus

8 “While I was thinking about the horns, there before me was another horn, a little one, which came up among them; and three of the first horns were uprooted before it. This horn had eyes like the eyes of a human being and a mouth that spoke boastfully.

9 “As I looked,

“thrones were set in place,
and the Ancient of Days took his seat.
His clothing was as white as snow;
the hair of his head was white like wool.
His throne was flaming with fire,
and its wheels were all ablaze.
10 A river of fire was flowing,
coming out from before him.
Thousands upon thousands attended him;
ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him.
The court was seated,
and the books were opened.
11 “Then I continued to watch because of the boastful words the horn was speaking. I kept looking until the beast was slain and its body destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire. 12 (The other beasts had been stripped of their authority, but were allowed to live for a period of time.)

13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man,[a] coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence.


what people like Red fail to take into account is that this is a vision only, it's what Daniel was allowed to see. The book of Revelation goes in deeper on the period inbetween.
What Red's done is, he's tried to apply the Daniel 7 10 horns prophecy into a modern context and tried to make out like there's going to be some putin or bin laden type figure making war against the jews.

As for the dream of Daniel 2...it's the 'feet of iron/clay' prophecy that refers to the end times Rome system. Islamic eschatology also calls it 'Rome' in the end times period.
looky ou had the holy roman empire, the crusades..and then not long after you had the rise of colonial powers all of whomw ere former roman colonies. Everything they conquered, the entire empires and colonial subject nations put together, you get a global Rome of 'iron and feet'.

what prophecy followed the whire horse? the prophecy of DEATH..and hence 2 world wars, the consequence of colonialism.

the one after that, the scales...capitalism and the rise of america..where it also says 'do not harm the oil or wine', which are symbols of judaism and hence you had the creation of israel after ww2. eg israel being protected.

I completely disagree with this preterism approach, it's just wishful thinking and moving the goalposts.

the end times prophecies are clear and given their place, there is no mixing of the two.
the roman empire was 'the legs of iron' and the end times 'rome' is the 'feet of iron and clay'. id argue that this connection to Rome occurs because the real satanic elite are in the vatican. the agenda was always Jerusalem. Augustus Ceasar became the first emperor after he took Jerusalem. He was consul when Herod sold out judea to the romans.
 

Daze

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Its kinda ironic. Here in the states there's alot of media propaganda saying we should allow Afghan women an education (to liberalize them no doubt). But American masters can't stand to see schools in Israel.

Why does your god (Israel / anti-christ) focus on children to eliminate @Red Sky at Morning ? Is there a good reason to target a school? I'm sure a terrorist was hiding in the principals office, that makes it ok to slaughter kids, doesn't it?

 
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Its kinda ironic. Here in the states there's alot of media propaganda saying we should allow Afghan women an education (to liberalize them no doubt). But American masters can't stand to see schools in Israel.

Why does your god (Israel / anti-christ) focus on children to eliminate @Red Sky at Morning ? Is there a good reason to target a school? I'm sure a terrorist was hiding in the principals office, that makes it ok to slaughter kids, doesn't it?


insane hypocrisy.....we know what's up.
 

Daze

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Mainly sharing this tweet for the 3 videos that are in it. Sadly idk how to separate them as i think each one is worth your attention.

One video shows an Israeli Jew spitting on the cross as Christians are carrying it past.
2nd video shows an Israeli Jew spitting on a churches door.
3rd video shows an Israeli Jew spitting on Christians in the street.

Gods chosen right? ..who have a bill in the works.. that forbid Christians to preach about Jesus in Israel.

The videos speak for themselves @Red Sky at Morning

 

Red Sky at Morning

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@Daze - you have actually done a great deal to help me understand the (perhaps) prevailing Muslim mindset…

A couple of days you highlighted the Islamic position on music. Certainly the majority of music played on the radio or Spotify is either simply fleshly or expresses various facets of evil. I know you didn’t agree with me when I pointed out that not all does, and that some music and instruments express beauty, truth and glory.

Women in the west can sometimes use their freedom to dress in a way that is demeaning and provocative and modisty in dress is to be preferred. On the other hand there are significant numbers of women in the west who dress in a tasteful yet unrestricted way and are in no way trying to gain attention for immoral reasons.

I have a dog that is as tough and dangerous as a Guinea pig but occasionally in the pet store a well-meaning Muslim lady might seize her child as we approach and whisper words of caution to her child about dogs. Of course, many dangerous / dirty dogs do exist but the one we own is not one!

To your observations about certain Jews…

At the moment I am listening through “Return of the Gods” again and contemplating the time of Elijah, Ahab and Jezebel. The rulership had led the nation into the worship of the “dark trinity” of Baal, Ashteroth and Moloch, being the expressions of all kinds of evil. At one point Elijah despaired of the nation and cried out to God saying “I and only I am left!”. God reminded Elijah that he had 7000 others in the nation who had not bowed their knee to Baal.

Why am I telling you this?

God would have certainly have been justified in wiping the idolatrous and unfaithful nation from the face of the earth in 1 Kings 18 and 19. If YouTube or Twitter had been available in that day, there would be graphic and incriminating videos available displaying veneration of wealth and power, depraved orgies on the high places and the horrors of screaming, frightened children being sacrificed on the burning metal hands of Moloch as flutes played and drums beat to drown out the screaming.

As far as I can see, the only reason why God has not wiped this “stiff necked” people from the face of the earth is because of the covenant cut in the blood of a substituted ram that He made with Abraham. On the other hand, the only reason why I can stand before God, accepted and forgiven is because of the New Covenant made with me by the shed blood of the perfect Passover Lamb, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Fast forward to the present day. Study of history reveals that 1/3 or the Jewish nation perished in the Holocaust. Study of the prophetic passages suggest that perhaps 2/3 or them will perish in the coming Tribulation, the remaining third escaping to be protected by God until the return of Jesus who they will then recognise as in Zechariah 12:10

Mourning the One they Pierced
(John 19:31-37)

10And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

I have mentioned the phrase “including but not limited to” before. Does the above help you understand what I mean by that?
 
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phipps

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Well I am interested if you have any further input, but I do continue to fail to see how any old testament prophecies have not been fulfilled either historically or by the life of christ.
I haven't read the whole thread so I might be repeating something that someone has already posted. I just wanted to add, that some prophecies that were given to literal Israel in the Old Covenant were never fulfilled because they were given on condition of them being obedient and faithful to God's Covenant. As we know they broke the covenant of God, disobeyed and rejected Christ. So some prophecies could not be fulfilled under literal Israel because they had forfeited the blessings of the old covenant.
And if thou wilt ... do according to all that I have commanded thee, and wilt keep my statutes and my judgments: Then I will establish the throne of thy kingdom upon Israel for ever ... But if ye shall at all turn from following me, ye or your children, and will not keep my commandments ... Then will I cut off Israel out of the land which I have given them; and this house, which I have hallowed for my name, will I cast out of my sight; and Israel shall be a proverb and a byword among all people” (1 Kings 9:4-7).

However as you know in the New Covenant the meaning of Israel changed. Being part of Israel is no longer about genetics, its about accepting Jesus as our personal Saviour and following His precepts. When we do that we all become part of Israel whether we are Jews or Gentiles. Paul explains this well in Romans 11 Paul uses the analogy of an olive tree to represent God’s people and explains how converted Gentiles can be members of the “Israel of God.” He shows that Gentiles, “being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them [circumcised Israelites], and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree” (Romans 11:17). In this analogy, even those who are Israelites by physical descent have to be grafted into the tree—having been cut off due to disobedience. Thankfully, there is a way to be grafted back in—and that way is the same way available to Gentiles.

So those promises that were not fulfilled under literal Israel have and will be fulfilled in spiritual Israel of the New Covenant which is the true Church of God. The promises were transferred to spiritual Israel which is made up of all true believers in Christ. Now that Israel is spiritual (there no literal country for spiritual Jews on earth) the New Kingdom with the New Jerusalem as its headquarters is not of this world either. Unlike the Old Jerusalem which was for mainly genetic Jews, the New Jerusalem will be for all those who chose and submitted to Christ from around the world. Jesus has prepared this place for them so that when He comes back the second time for them, He will take them back to His New Kingdom and the New Jerusalem and they will be with Him forever.

Some of this comes from thread True Israel.
 

phipps

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The state of Israel that exits today is not a constitutionally religious state. It is a secular state and is no different to any other secular state that was formed in modern times. The leader of the Israeli state is its Prime minister. But the leader/head of the church, the true Israel of the Bible is Jesus Christ.

Biblically Israel ceased being a spiritual nation before the Lord forever. They ceased being a chosen people who witness for God and spread the Word throughout the world. Apart from the era from the early Christian church where the apostles spread the Gospel, its mostly been Gentiles who spread the Word of God around the world all throughout the centuries to this day.

Why did Israel stop being God's chosen people? Because all the promises God made to Israel were conditional to obedience, “Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth is Mine. And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words which you shall speak to the children of Israel” (Deuteronomy 11:26-28). This applies to all of us too. God's promises are always based on condition of obedience. Those who submit and obey will go to heaven and live eternally. Those who don't will go to hell and die eternally.

Unfortunately the children of Israel disobeyed and rejected Christ and they ceased being a chosen nation. God had allocated them a time (490 years) in which to change and come back to Him, but when that time was up, they had made their choice. But just like Israel we have a probationary period in which to choose who we serve before it ends and Christ comes back for His people.
 
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Daze

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@Daze - you have actually done a great deal to help me understand the perhaps the prevailing Muslim mindset…
Honestly, this makes your entire post not worth reading. Tell us what does the suffering Christians at the hands of Israeli Jews have to do with Muslims?

Continue to shove them fingers into them ears Red. End of the day, when the good Lord puts you in the camp of the anti-christ, you can tell us about your Bible verses and prophecy that was written by Jews.
 
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